joseph
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Post by joseph on Jun 28, 2023 17:21:54 GMT 1
I recon the Coastliner will be selected stops like it was around a year or so ago, bit of a waste of time really as those selected stops were hard to remember for drivers, and the public so some buses called at stops they shouldn't have done. I think it was the first few stops at the bottom of York Road that were supposed to be skipped followed by a random number beyond, something like Ivy Street flyover missed, called at Iceland and the stop after the Shaftsbury bridge, dog and gun, missed the next one, called at the bottom of York Road then all stops after.
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Post by SCH117X on Jun 28, 2023 20:54:37 GMT 1
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Post by deerfold on Jun 28, 2023 21:48:22 GMT 1
Given it's less than two weeks until the restructuring come into force they could do with being less cagey about what they actually are.
I'm surprised they're not in the timetable - nor is there any mention of any services being limited stop except the handful of X43 services.
That sounds to be the perfect way to have lots of annoyed and confused customers.
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Post by gledhill56 on Jun 28, 2023 22:26:08 GMT 1
Still a more frequent service than Marten Nest who go down to 2 evening buses daily with an additional hourly daytime service on Sundays only. They've still got the 354/355 M-Sat daytimes Would you like to tell that to my mother who lives on Coppice Drive who has mobility issues hence needing the 323 to not be withdrawn. |
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Post by stevieinselby on Jun 28, 2023 22:33:30 GMT 1
Someone isn't very good at maths 🙄 "A ‘Coastliner Express’ route is set to be introduced this summer – slashing an hour off travel times from Leeds to Scarborough.
The usual journey time for the service is 3 hours and 25 minutes – but the rapid service will cut an hour from this to be around 2 hours and 25 minutes instead."X43 - Depart Leeds 0850 - arrive Alpamere 1125 - journey time 2h35 843 - Depart Leeds 0835 - arrive Alpamere 1150 - journey time 3h15 Time saving - 40 minutes |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2023 2:36:02 GMT 1
They've still got the 354/355 M-Sat daytimes Would you like to tell that to my mother who lives on Coppice Drive who has mobility issues hence needing the 323 to not be withdrawn. Sorry, I Thought you was meaning the estate in general rather than Coppice Drive. |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jul 2, 2023 21:26:41 GMT 1
Some of these cuts are pretty substantial it isn't just an odd trip here and there withdrawn
For example looking at the 686/687
On a Saturday buses from Wyke to Bradford at 0544, 0620, 0645, 0715, 0730 & 0749 are all withdrawn with the first bus now being at 0801
Similar cuts in the opposite direction as well with the first bus now not reaching Brighouse until 0856 and Scholes until 0918
In the evening the last bus from Bradford to Wyke on a Saturday is now the 1952 with the 2026, 2052, 2126, 2152, 2226 & 2252 all withdrawn
I expect some of these cuts will surprise people on a Bank Holiday Monday where a Sunday service runs and there is nothing before 10am and nothing after 6pm, and on those weekdays between Christmas and New Year where a Saturday service runs and where there will now be nothing that gets them into Bradford before 0826
In Huddersfield the last bus to Slaithwaite and Wilberlee on a Saturday is now at 1600
The biggest cut in all day services however is the Meltham service with the 324 now only running every 20 minutes. Pre pandemic there were 6 buses an hour First and Yorkshire Tiger combined, and First themselves have run 5 or 6 per hour with other operators on top of that at various times in the past
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Jul 2, 2023 22:35:27 GMT 1
Some of these cuts are pretty substantial it isn't just an odd trip here and there withdrawn For example looking at the 686/687 On a Saturday buses from Wyke to Bradford at 0544, 0620, 0645, 0715, 0730 & 0749 are all withdrawn with the first bus now being at 0801 Similar cuts in the opposite direction as well with the first bus now not reaching Brighouse until 0856 and Scholes until 0918 In the evening the last bus from Bradford to Wyke on a Saturday is now the 1952 with the 2026, 2052, 2126, 2152, 2226 & 2252 all withdrawn I expect some of these cuts will surprise people on a Bank Holiday Monday where a Sunday service runs and there is nothing before 10am and nothing after 6pm, and on those weekdays between Christmas and New Year where a Saturday service runs and where there will now be nothing that gets them into Bradford before 0826 In Huddersfield the last bus to Slaithwaite and Wilberlee on a Saturday is now at 1600 The biggest cut in all day services however is the Meltham service with the 324 now only running every 20 minutes. Pre pandemic there were 6 buses an hour First and Yorkshire Tiger combined, and First themselves have run 5 or 6 per hour with other operators on top of that at various times in the past Mountains of bus priority along the bus routes to Wyke. A whole guideway, well executed bus lanes which are enforced all day and all night, and yet they still don't provide a full service. Enthusiasts that are for privatisation will still convince themselves that priority is a magical saving grace...  |
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Post by dlspotter on Jul 2, 2023 22:42:53 GMT 1
In Huddersfield the last bus to Slaithwaite and Wilberlee on a Saturday is now at 1600 Can I point out that Team Pennine's 396 runs to Slaithwaite and Wilberlee on Saturday evenings, although it's infrequent, there are journeys at 18:30 and 20:30 |
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Jul 2, 2023 22:50:31 GMT 1
In Huddersfield the last bus to Slaithwaite and Wilberlee on a Saturday is now at 1600 Can I point out that Team Pennine's 396 runs to Slaithwaite and Wilberlee on Saturday evenings, although it's infrequent, there are journeys at 18:30 and 20:30 They run a lot of replacements I've always thought it was super unfair they run the least profitable journeys while first reaps the peak profits. Under franchising they best get the full 356, 358 at the bare minimum. |
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Post by stephen01 on Jul 2, 2023 22:55:51 GMT 1
Can I point out that Team Pennine's 396 runs to Slaithwaite and Wilberlee on Saturday evenings, although it's infrequent, there are journeys at 18:30 and 20:30 They run a lot of replacements I've always thought it was super unfair they run the least profitable journeys while first reaps the peak profits. Under franchising they best get the full 356, 358 at the bare minimum. Considering people want the companies bringing under public control it was revealed end of May/start of June that there's 4 loopholes the government can use to make it near impossible to go for public control if you go for franchising first which is why there's a shift in opinion to bring them under full public control first starting with the Big main operators i.e Arriva, First, Go-Ahead, Stagecoach & Transdev (for the Northern territories) |
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Post by deerfold on Jul 2, 2023 23:39:54 GMT 1
Can I point out that Team Pennine's 396 runs to Slaithwaite and Wilberlee on Saturday evenings, although it's infrequent, there are journeys at 18:30 and 20:30 They run a lot of replacements I've always thought it was super unfair they run the least profitable journeys while first reaps the peak profits. Under franchising they best get the full 356, 358 at the bare minimum. They'll be paid a fee if they run buses under franchising. It'll make no difference to them how much the routes take. In the same way it doesn't for most of today's subsidised services. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2023 23:47:42 GMT 1
Can I point out that Team Pennine's 396 runs to Slaithwaite and Wilberlee on Saturday evenings, although it's infrequent, there are journeys at 18:30 and 20:30 They run a lot of replacements I've always thought it was super unfair they run the least profitable journeys while first reaps the peak profits. Under franchising they best get the full 356, 358 at the bare minimum. The 396 started out as evening/Sunday cover for the Stotts routes rather than the First (going back a few years it was even operated by First) as it still served Wilberlee during the few years the daytime First journeys terminated at Hill Top. Ideally under franchising you'd just have the minibus services using the same number/route all day every day. I'm assuming if we get Franchising it will be like Manchester so routes will be handed out in full as 'groups' so it will put an end to the situation you mention on the 356/8 (plus others),although even better if we went down the nationalised route then that would make it even less of a problem. The only issue is Nationalising the buses makes integration with the railway still as difficult as it is now, what was one of the main reasons Manchester went for Franchising. The Wyke cuts are bad as well (although does the X63/363 offer any earlier/later buses on the main road?). I am willing let First off slightly regarding the priority measures as they are due to close for the Guideway to be changed into a normal busway but would hope some sort of improvements are introduced when it all reopens (I Won't hold my breath on that though) |
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Post by stevieinselby on Jul 3, 2023 9:40:05 GMT 1
They'll be paid a fee if they run buses under franchising. It'll make no difference to them how much the routes take. In the same way it doesn't for most of today's subsidised services. Is that true? I thought that for the current subsidised services, they would usually be paid a sum towards running them but would then get to keep the ticket revenue, meaning that they did have an incentive to increase ridership. |
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Jul 3, 2023 10:20:40 GMT 1
Councilors for the areas which represent the areas along the 27, 33 & 34 have gave tiny insight into what the company is like behind the scenes.
First has been asked to hold on with these changes while they do an assessment for support for the cut bus services. Turns out they made the changes anyway and "walked away." (How it was described in the post on Facebook)
Doesn't sound like a great company to work with behind the scenes, and clearly don't have a care in the world for the extremely important public service they provide.
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Post by deerfold on Jul 3, 2023 10:52:52 GMT 1
They'll be paid a fee if they run buses under franchising. It'll make no difference to them how much the routes take. In the same way it doesn't for most of today's subsidised services. Is that true? I thought that for the current subsidised services, they would usually be paid a sum towards running them but would then get to keep the ticket revenue, meaning that they did have an incentive to increase ridership. It varies, but if the ridership is expected to be low, they'll have bid at a higher level. |
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Post by stevieinselby on Jul 3, 2023 11:23:05 GMT 1
Is that true? I thought that for the current subsidised services, they would usually be paid a sum towards running them but would then get to keep the ticket revenue, meaning that they did have an incentive to increase ridership. It varies, but if the ridership is expected to be low, they'll have bid at a higher level. That's true ... but once they've got the contract, more passengers equals more money, so it is in their interests to grow usage (although that can come back to bite them at renewal time!) ... which is quite a different prospect to a management contract where they just get paid a fixed fee regardless of how many people use it. |
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BusNut
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Post by BusNut on Jul 3, 2023 12:32:03 GMT 1
Great news! I’m surprised the WY towns/cities bordering SY don’t have any links to the region. WYCA wanted funding of 50% towards the route and SYPTE (now SYMCA) declined, as the route in SY is fully covered with commercial services. Hence, the split of the former 496 service. Next partly funded contributions towards the now 52 which is operated by First South Yorkshire. First South Yorkshire registered 1 of the 4 trips commercial, following a tender award in October 2022. As Arriva Yorkshire have won the recent tendered service, they have commercially linked this in with the existing 496 service. However, the South Elmsall - Doncaster section still remains tendered by SYMCA. |
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BusNut
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Post by BusNut on Jul 3, 2023 12:34:42 GMT 1
Councilors for the areas which represent the areas along the 27, 33 & 34 have gave tiny insight into what the company is like behind the scenes. First has been asked to hold on with these changes while they do an assessment for support for the cut bus services. Turns out they made the changes anyway and "walked away." (How it was described in the post on Facebook) Doesn't sound like a great company to work with behind the scenes, and clearly don't have a care in the world for the extremely important public service they provide. FirstGroup tried the same just down the road in South Yorkshire, Rotherham to be specific. However, this significantly backfired and ended up with Stagecoach Yorkshire becoming the dominant operator now in Rotherham. Similarly in Sheffield they also did the same with late evening trips, unlike Leeds competition remains significant so this was less impacted as Stagecoach Yorkshire still cover most of the city commercially at these times (particularly on services 1, 7, 52, 88 and 120). |
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Post by Burnside on Jul 3, 2023 19:13:27 GMT 1
Wonder if Yorkshire Buses would consider taking on the axed evening journeys on the 27?
Would further consolidate their foothold in the Horsforth and Headingley areas?
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Post by starlingda on Jul 3, 2023 19:44:32 GMT 1
Wonder if Yorkshire Buses would consider taking on the axed evening journeys on the 27? Would further consolidate their foothold in the Horsforth and Headingley areas? Possibly the extended 29 later this month? |
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Jul 4, 2023 7:58:17 GMT 1
It varies, but if the ridership is expected to be low, they'll have bid at a higher level. That's true ... but once they've got the contract, more passengers equals more money, so it is in their interests to grow usage (although that can come back to bite them at renewal time!) ... which is quite a different prospect to a management contract where they just get paid a fixed fee regardless of how many people use it. Depends on the contract awarded. There are two types, Subsidy where the operator keeps the revenue and the bids on what they think they need to make up the difference and Cost where the revenue is returned to the council and the operator bids on what they think it will cost to run. It used to be that Subsidy contracts were effectively standard with Cost contracts being an unusual option whereas nowadays (partially due to the uncertainty following COVID but it did appear to be a slowly developing trend even before that) Cost is more common and often preferred by the operators. Even with a Cost contract an enlightened operator will see it in their interests to develop & grow a route so that it has a better chance to survive in the future and as you have an inside track on the true numbers you can bid more accurately next time and hope to retain but if that growth/development requires any level of extra funding it needs to be approved and covered/guaranteed by the council as they will be the ones gaining the extra income and not all councils are that reactive. |
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Post by deerfold on Jul 4, 2023 17:53:24 GMT 1
They'll be paid a fee if they run buses under franchising. It'll make no difference to them how much the routes take. In the same way it doesn't for most of today's subsidised services. Is that true? I thought that for the current subsidised services, they would usually be paid a sum towards running them but would then get to keep the ticket revenue, meaning that they did have an incentive to increase ridership. My point was that it's not inherently unfair that they get quieter routes. |
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BusNut
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Post by BusNut on Jul 5, 2023 9:25:53 GMT 1
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Post by SCH117X on Jul 5, 2023 19:24:25 GMT 1
The stops missed by Coastliner are York Road Pontefract Lane, Clenthorpe Terrace, Harrison Crescent, Halton Dial, Seacroft Hospital outbound from Leeds
and Pontefract Lane and York Street towards Leeds
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