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Post by dwarfer1979 on Mar 8, 2024 9:07:02 GMT 1
Bringing back the 183, with the takeover of the 184, would mean it would return to similar levels of service prior to the cuts. If it was so 'unsustainable' they had to cut it and they ended up bringing it back, without BSIP funding, they are basically showing themselves up and admitting the cuts were greedy and unnecessary. Yes but the 184 is now no longer their concern so it wouldn’t be ‘more funding’ First WY decided they could only run 3 buses to Marsden rather than 4, and going forward First WY would still be only running 3 buses to Marsden if the 183 comes back I presume Metro aren’t paying TfGM anything to run the 184 directly along Manchester Road to Huddersfield That argument only really works if you assume the 184 carries no local traffic at all once it reaches the common section. First decided that corridor could only support 3 buses per hour, it still has 3 buses per hour (2 First & 1 Bee Network) so restoring a 4th bus (so they retain 3 buses an hour) is an increase in provision in total back to what was considered an unviable service level only relatively recently and as such without some change in circumstances would still be a questionable business proposition as there would need to be an increase in passengers across the corridor to support the extra provision. The only variables are how many use the section that has been removed from the Oldham bus with it returning to the old routeing and how many travel on First specific ticket products (rather than WYMetro multi-operator products which you presume the Bee Network buses will also accept) as to what they need to keep over how many won't have any specific brand loyalty.
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Mar 8, 2024 9:26:09 GMT 1
Yes but the 184 is now no longer their concern so it wouldn’t be ‘more funding’ First WY decided they could only run 3 buses to Marsden rather than 4, and going forward First WY would still be only running 3 buses to Marsden if the 183 comes back I presume Metro aren’t paying TfGM anything to run the 184 directly along Manchester Road to Huddersfield That argument only really works if you assume the 184 carries no local traffic at all once it reaches the common section. First decided that corridor could only support 3 buses per hour, it still has 3 buses per hour (2 First & 1 Bee Network) so restoring a 4th bus (so they retain 3 buses an hour) is an increase in provision in total back to what was considered an unviable service level only relatively recently and as such without some change in circumstances would still be a questionable business proposition as there would need to be an increase in passengers across the corridor to support the extra provision. The only variables are how many use the section that has been removed from the Oldham bus with it returning to the old routeing and how many travel on First specific ticket products (rather than WYMetro multi-operator products which you presume the Bee Network buses will also accept) as to what they need to keep over how many won't have any specific brand loyalty. Nailed it. I wasn't sure how to word it
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Post by steve440 on Mar 8, 2024 15:43:50 GMT 1
The timetable for the 184 is now available on both the TfGM/Bee Network and Metro websites (although separately from the 181/185). The changes on TfGM's website state that: The route map in the PDF also has the 184 still running via Marsden Hard End, Mount Road and Fall Lane but then direct along Manchester Road (via 185 route) to Huddersfield. So, it may well be the case that the Bee Network will continue to serve Hard End on the 184 route and then we might perhaps see something like the 181 increased to half-hourly between Huddersfield and Wilberlee to maintain the service levels between Huddersfield, Linthwaite and Slaithwaite. Evening journeys could potentially run as the 186 between Huddersfield and Marsden Dirker via Linthwaite or perhaps the 185 will be re-instated. Although, I do wonder if the Marsden route is correct from the TfGM map, as the bustimes.org website doesn't list any stops between Standedge Great Western and Marsden Peel Street, when you click on show all stops. Also, there does appear to be one issue with the timetable, in that there is a Saturday journey departing Huddersfield at 1935, yet no journey running from Oldham to Huddersfield at 1803 to start the journey from Huddersfield. So, don't know if the 1803 Saturday journey from Oldham is missing from the timetable or the 1935 Saturday journey from Huddersfield is incorrectly added. assets.ctfassets.net/nv7y93idf4jq/2sc7UbpcOraBgK8hPW2ufc/647d08decae00328dddd4f6f298ad403/84__180__184_24-SC-0093.pdfwww.wymetro.com/buses/timetables/184/31607I see that the Bee Network timetable has the 184 going straight along Manchester Road, but the Metro timetable when you click on show all stops has it going up past Linthwaite Church as it does now. Confused or what? Do these people talk to each other?
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Post by michael1971 on Mar 9, 2024 18:19:00 GMT 1
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Post by steve440 on Mar 9, 2024 19:06:51 GMT 1
Yes but if you click on the column headings to show all stops then the stops between Hoyle House Fold and Cowlersley are on the current route past Linthwaite Church whereas according to the Bee Network map and bustimes timetable it is shown as operating direct along Manchester Road. That's what I'm trying to say on my previous post. If indeed it is going to run via Linthwaite Church there is no chance on earth that the running times are adequate. Two minutes from Hoyle House Fold to Cowlersley can't be done in a car!
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Mar 9, 2024 19:34:48 GMT 1
It's getting very confusing with the 184... It seems a lot of drivers have reported that they have been trained on the existing route. I hope this gets clarified a bit over the coming days because it isn't long until the route gets taken over.
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Post by Burnside on Mar 9, 2024 20:45:12 GMT 1
67 Keighley and Cullingworth to Bradford We'll be tweaking the times on this service to ensure we're running as reliably as possible for you. We're changing the stops that we serve in Bradford, as the city prepares for the City of Culture celebrations next year and will share more news on this closer to the time. The timetable reverts to the previous times, ex Keighley 15 past the hour during the day (no change to peak hours or evenings). The section regarding the change of stops has been removed, so presumably the ongoing closure of the Interchange has put a temporary kibosh on those plans.
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Mar 10, 2024 1:57:57 GMT 1
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gledhill56
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Post by gledhill56 on Mar 10, 2024 3:31:38 GMT 1
Just proves First have no consideration for the travelling public in Huddersfield and are continuing to push more people off public transport and into their cars.
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Post by steve440 on Mar 10, 2024 9:35:34 GMT 1
Just proves First have no consideration for the travelling public in Huddersfield and are continuing to push more people off public transport and into their cars. That's going to annoy passengers, particularly elderly, who live in Linthwaite and shop in Slaithwaite. Also passengers from Marsden having to endure the diversion through Linthwaite.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Mar 10, 2024 10:06:12 GMT 1
Looks like they’ve just swapped over the routes, so the 181/184 did run via Linthwaite now they go direct, the 185 did run direct, it now goes via Linthwaite. As a result they no longer need the 186 variation, and moving them into the 300s makes sense
The link between Linthwaite and Slaithwaite is broken though, for those who would find it hard to walk from the main road
It also seems to confirm that the map in the TfGM leaflet is correct, the 184 will run via Hard End, but won’t run via Linthwaite
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Post by thelupineone on Mar 10, 2024 10:15:14 GMT 1
Were they ever the 380s? As far as I've been in Huddersfield, these routes were numbered in the 348-352 range, before becoming 181-186 to align with Manchester's 184.
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Post by thelupineone on Mar 10, 2024 10:19:00 GMT 1
Also realising that if what I'm reading is correct, that this completely cuts of Marsden Hard End from the bus network. Another neighbourood isolated from the network and this time both First AND TfGM are complicit.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Mar 10, 2024 10:23:19 GMT 1
All that's really needed is for the 938 to be amended to serve more of Linthwaite so the link to Slaithwaite is kept, which it mostly is anyway as it's only really the middle bit of Cowersley Lane what doesn't have close access to the 181/938. You've also got the 389 which although limited does still provide useful access to Slaithwaite say for early health appointments with a taxi used for the return journey. I'm sure a taxi to and from Slaithwaite won't cost the earth, 5 quid each way maybe? To be fair on First, it's either the 181 keeps it's current route hourly via Linthwaite with the 185 sticking to Manchester Road or this compromise as the 184 doesn't need to run via Linthwaite bearing in mind it's not subsidised to do so. There isn't the passenger numbers for 4 buses an hour from Marsden as well so that's got to be considered.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Mar 10, 2024 10:23:34 GMT 1
Also realising that if what I'm reading is correct, that this completely cuts of Marsden Hard End from the bus network. Another neighbourood isolated from the network and this time both First AND TfGM are complicit. The 184 will still serve Hard End, it’s both shown on the map and not mentioned in the route change here, looks like TfGM were right all along assets.ctfassets.net/nv7y93idf4jq/2sc7UbpcOraBgK8hPW2ufc/647d08decae00328dddd4f6f298ad403/84__180__184_24-SC-0093.pdfIf you look on Google Maps you can see why the Cowlersley Lane route probably deserves the main service. There are many houses in close proximity. The main road bit is basically mostly just terraced houses that front directly onto Manchester Road, and even those are intermittent and often only on one side of the road. I agree that if they slightly revise the 938 routing that broken link would be saved for those who can’t walk from the Slaithwaite main road stop
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Mar 10, 2024 10:28:01 GMT 1
Also realising that if what I'm reading is correct, that this completely cuts of Marsden Hard End from the bus network. Another neighbourood isolated from the network and this time both First AND TfGM are complicit. It isn't as the 184 will still run that way and there is the local 938 up that way too. To be fair, it's only a few houses so they should count themselves lucky the 184 will still run that way, I personally have only seen it pick up odds and sods with many cars outside peoples homes on that section. It's also a roughly 20 minute walk into Marsden from there so you can't say it's cut off, maybe in the snow but same could be said for many hilly areas.
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Post by thelupineone on Mar 10, 2024 10:44:50 GMT 1
All that's really needed is for the 938 to be amended to serve more of Linthwaite so the link to Slaithwaite is kept, which it mostly is anyway as it's only really the middle bit of Cowersley Lane what doesn't have close access to the 181/938. You've also got the 389 which although limited does still provide useful access to Slaithwaite say for early health appointments with a taxi used for the return journey. I'm sure a taxi to and from Slaithwaite won't cost the earth, 5 quid each way maybe? To be fair on First, it's either the 181 keeps it's current route hourly via Linthwaite with the 185 sticking to Manchester Road or this compromise as the 184 doesn't need to run via Linthwaite bearing in mind it's not subsidised to do so. There isn't the passenger numbers for 4 buses an hour from Marsden as well so that's got to be considered. Given the long-term line closures on the railway as part of the Transpennine Route Upgrade, I'd posit there is a market for running more buses down the Colne Valley. The 181/4/5 are definitely well used at their current frequency and First shouldn't keep giving the Colne Valley short shrift.
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Post by WYBS on Mar 10, 2024 10:57:28 GMT 1
'Evening journey’s'. Nice apostrophe.
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Mar 10, 2024 12:24:43 GMT 1
It could just be me but it seems wrong to give the area that is the furthest away the most indirect service with an hourly unreliable route as the only quick route.
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Mar 10, 2024 14:06:26 GMT 1
Looks like they’ve just swapped over the routes, so the 181/184 did run via Linthwaite now they go direct, the 185 did run direct, it now goes via Linthwaite. As a result they no longer need the 186 variation, and moving them into the 300s makes sense The link between Linthwaite and Slaithwaite is broken though, for those who would find it hard to walk from the main road It also seems to confirm that the map in the TfGM leaflet is correct, the 184 will run via Hard End, but won’t run via Linthwaite Also not to mention that Linthwaite is on a massive hill!
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SF07
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Post by SF07 on Mar 12, 2024 23:31:59 GMT 1
Timetables for the 382/383 can be seen on bustimes.org, for those who haven't seen them yet. Service 382 will run hourly Monday-Saturday daytime plus a couple of early evening journey and every two hours Sunday daytime. Service 383 will run half-hourly Monday-Saturday daytime and hourly evenings and Sundays. Monday-Saturda daytime departure times from Huddersfield are designed to provide a 15 minute frequency towards Slaithwaite on services 184 (xx35), 382 (xx05) and 383 (xx20, xx50), Monday-Saturday daytime. Return journeys towards Huddersfield are a little bit unbalanced with the 382 running about 5-10 minutes in front of the 184 between Slaithwaite and Huddersfield - xx09/xx39 (383), xx48 (382), xx56 (184). Sunday journeys on 184/382 also a little bit unbalanced, with the 382 departing Huddersfield 4 minutes in front of the 184 (1029/1033, 1229/1233, 1429/1433, 1629/1633). Also, for those who use stops on Mount Road/Hard End in the evening, it's not an ideal connection for anyone wanting to change at Marsden centre from the 2003 184 from Oldham or onto the 2101 journey from Marsden to Oldham, as the 383 will arrive into Marsden from Huddersfield at 2036 (25 minute connection) and departs from Marsden Peel Street stop at 2044 (one minute before the 184 arrives - meaning just under an hour's wait). bustimes.org/services/382-huddersfield-bus-station-wilberleebustimes.org/services/383-huddersfield-bus-station-marsden-dirker
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Post by driver6540 on Mar 13, 2024 0:00:24 GMT 1
Were they ever the 380s? As far as I've been in Huddersfield, these routes were numbered in the 348-352 range, before becoming 181-186 to align with Manchester's 184. You are correct. These routes were numbered in the 350-54 series since 1974 when WYPTE was formed. Prior to this they were 50-54 in the Corporation/JOC days. IIRC the 380's route in Metro day's were Newsome services.
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Post by thelupineone on Mar 13, 2024 0:39:41 GMT 1
Were they ever the 380s? As far as I've been in Huddersfield, these routes were numbered in the 348-352 range, before becoming 181-186 to align with Manchester's 184. You are correct. These routes were numbered in the 350-54 series since 1974 when WYPTE was formed. Prior to this they were 50-54 in the Corporation/JOC days. IIRC the 380's route in Metro day's were Newsome services. I'm sure the 549 used to be the 380.
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Post by johndc1984 on Mar 13, 2024 0:50:47 GMT 1
You are correct. These routes were numbered in the 350-54 series since 1974 when WYPTE was formed. Prior to this they were 50-54 in the Corporation/JOC days. IIRC the 380's route in Metro day's were Newsome services. I'm sure the 549 used to be the 380. Yes the 380/381 if I recall ran Huddersfield-Rastrick-Brighouse-Clifton (380), and the 384 ran from Thornton Square in Brighouse to Huddersfield via Fixby and was a minibus route.
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Post by deerfold on Mar 13, 2024 11:26:43 GMT 1
I'm sure the 549 used to be the 380. and the 384 ran from Thornton Square in Brighouse to Huddersfield via Fixby and was a minibus route. And is now a Fixby circular from Huddersfield.
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