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Post by stevieinselby on Feb 28, 2024 23:08:08 GMT 1
Good to see that the 820 has been retained this year, but disappointing that the two Lancaster routes aren't coming back, so there's no Sunday service to Settle at all unless we get a surprise announcement about the 580/581. Also suggests that the 825 has bitten the dust, although not a surprise after the minimal service it has had previously. And unsurprising that the 876 has been shortened, as it ran pretty much empty between York and Leeds last year. One big plus is that the summer season for the 820/821, 822 and 874/875/876 starts on Easter Sunday and runs through to the start of October half-term this year, rather than the mess we saw last year when the 822 was designed around providing connections with other routes all of which had different start or end dates – so we get a longer season and it's consistent across the group of routes. (I was on the 864 a couple of weeks ago and it was packed! Every seat taken from Skipton up to Malham. Hard to believe that AFAIK it's the first time in more than 20 years that the route has had a winter Sunday service. Certainly seems to be justified)
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Post by stephen01 on Feb 29, 2024 0:45:30 GMT 1
Good to see that the 820 has been retained this year, but disappointing that the two Lancaster routes aren't coming back, so there's no Sunday service to Settle at all unless we get a surprise announcement about the 580/581. Also suggests that the 825 has bitten the dust, although not a surprise after the minimal service it has had previously. And unsurprising that the 876 has been shortened, as it ran pretty much empty between York and Leeds last year. One big plus is that the summer season for the 820/821, 822 and 874/875/876 starts on Easter Sunday and runs through to the start of October half-term this year, rather than the mess we saw last year when the 822 was designed around providing connections with other routes all of which had different start or end dates – so we get a longer season and it's consistent across the group of routes. (I was on the 864 a couple of weeks ago and it was packed! Every seat taken from Skipton up to Malham. Hard to believe that AFAIK it's the first time in more than 20 years that the route has had a winter Sunday service. Certainly seems to be justified) could the lack of Lancaster to Settle be due to the return of Dales-rail this year which is pitched as linking those two areas.
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jimmi
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Post by jimmi on Feb 29, 2024 1:00:48 GMT 1
Good to see that the 820 has been retained this year, but disappointing that the two Lancaster routes aren't coming back, so there's no Sunday service to Settle at all unless we get a surprise announcement about the 580/581. Also suggests that the 825 has bitten the dust, although not a surprise after the minimal service it has had previously. And unsurprising that the 876 has been shortened, as it ran pretty much empty between York and Leeds last year. One big plus is that the summer season for the 820/821, 822 and 874/875/876 starts on Easter Sunday and runs through to the start of October half-term this year, rather than the mess we saw last year when the 822 was designed around providing connections with other routes all of which had different start or end dates – so we get a longer season and it's consistent across the group of routes. (I was on the 864 a couple of weeks ago and it was packed! Every seat taken from Skipton up to Malham. Hard to believe that AFAIK it's the first time in more than 20 years that the route has had a winter Sunday service. Certainly seems to be justified) 825 is not on the summer timetable page, however if you Google 'DalesBus 825' it will bring up the service page and suggests that it will be running again in 2024 on selected dates, so likely to be pretty much as it was last year. 830 page is still showing that it didn't run in 2023, but hopes to run in 2024. Arriva North East's 831/832 is currently indicating a start date of May 5th which is a few weeks earlier than normal. could the lack of Lancaster to Settle be due to the return of Dales-rail this year which is pitched as linking those two areas. The reason they suggested that it didn't operate last year was due to a change in train timetables, meaning the connections were no longer possible and likely to impact custom on the service and there was issues securing funding to run this and the 881, the latter also having low passenger numbers. This year the DalesRail service will operate on Saturdays.
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Post by leedsbusman on Feb 29, 2024 1:03:34 GMT 1
Good to see that the 820 has been retained this year, but disappointing that the two Lancaster routes aren't coming back, so there's no Sunday service to Settle at all unless we get a surprise announcement about the 580/581. Also suggests that the 825 has bitten the dust, although not a surprise after the minimal service it has had previously. And unsurprising that the 876 has been shortened, as it ran pretty much empty between York and Leeds last year. One big plus is that the summer season for the 820/821, 822 and 874/875/876 starts on Easter Sunday and runs through to the start of October half-term this year, rather than the mess we saw last year when the 822 was designed around providing connections with other routes all of which had different start or end dates – so we get a longer season and it's consistent across the group of routes. (I was on the 864 a couple of weeks ago and it was packed! Every seat taken from Skipton up to Malham. Hard to believe that AFAIK it's the first time in more than 20 years that the route has had a winter Sunday service. Certainly seems to be justified) could the lack of Lancaster to Settle be due to the return of Dales-rail this year which is pitched as linking those two areas. Pitched by whom? Pre 23 it ran from Blackpool and didn’t serve Lancaster. For 2024 it’s Rochdale to Ribblehead via Manchester and Blackburn so even further away from Lancaster!
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Feb 29, 2024 7:16:33 GMT 1
Regarding the lack of Lancaster to Settle Sunday buses, the train from Lancaster to Giggleswick (Settle being a short walk away from here) could be a reason why last year's Sunday bus between those areas wasn't a success, as it serves a lot of the communities the bus served barring places like Austwick or Ingleton, even Clapham could be reached as it's only a mile from it's station.
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jimmi
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Post by jimmi on Feb 29, 2024 9:08:08 GMT 1
Regarding the lack of Lancaster to Settle Sunday buses, the train from Lancaster to Giggleswick (Settle being a short walk away from here) could be a reason why last year's Sunday bus between those areas wasn't a success, as it serves a lot of the communities the bus served barring places like Austwick or Ingleton, even Clapham could be reached as it's only a mile from it's station. Think the 580/581 last ran on Sundays during the 2021 season and it seemed lightly used, I did the afternoon return trip from Kirkby Lonsdale to Skipton and think I was the only passenger for the vast majority, if not the whole journey to Skipton
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Post by Bradford Traveller on Feb 29, 2024 14:32:27 GMT 1
I believe that a bus service is only as good as the maximum gap between two services. When the 60A was introduced, that was a boon for the stretch between Leeds and Shipley, but I felt Shipley-Keighley became worse off with a switch to a 20/40 minute frequency, despite having the same number of buses per hour. I rode the 60A to Shipley on the first Saturday it was running; east of Shipley, before then every bus would take you to Keighley, and there were people hoping to go past Shipley who were sorely dissapointed to find they'd be waiting another 20 minutes for a 60. These improvements will definitely be welcome! It's also hard to work out connections with other services at Bingley/Shipley. The half-hourly service pattern did coincide Bingley – Shipley with the 622, though, so may have picked up some passengers who would've caught the 622 previously.
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Post by stevieinselby on Feb 29, 2024 15:56:56 GMT 1
could the lack of Lancaster to Settle be due to the return of Dales-rail this year which is pitched as linking those two areas. No. The Northern Dalesman from Lancaster didn't run last year because the DalesRail was cancelled, meaning that there were no DR passengers connecting with the bus at Ribblehead for Hawes and Swaledale. The DalesRail service that is being reinstated this year runs from Rochdale and Manchester, not Lancaster (it has never run from Lancaster AFAIK!), and is running on Saturday rather than Sunday ... so there won't be DR passengers connecting with the 830 if it does run. Yes, there is the Bentham Line getting passengers from Lancaster to Giggleswick (for Settle), but in terms of linking with Dalesbus it just doesn't offer any real opportunity to explore the Dales. There are no other connections in any direction from Settle, no way to get to Ingleton other than coming from Hawes, and the first train is too late into Skipton for any useful Dalesbus connections. It's a shame that the much improved Sunday service on the 80/81 between Lancaster and Kirkby Lonsdale that LCC have paid for is basically a dead-end, when there ought to be so much potential for it to be a gateway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2024 17:06:44 GMT 1
Arriva's 42 service due a timetable change this month too. I've just noticed
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Post by stevieinselby on Mar 5, 2024 20:21:33 GMT 1
Arriva's 42 service due a timetable change this month too. I've just noticed For a guess, that's the reintroduction of the additional Saturday services with Naburn Lock caravan park reopening after its winter shutdown.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Mar 6, 2024 14:09:13 GMT 1
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Post by Bradford Traveller on Mar 6, 2024 14:34:37 GMT 1
67 Keighley and Cullingworth to Bradford
We'll be tweaking the times on this service to ensure we're running as reliably as possible for you.
The timetable reverts to the previous times, ex Keighley 15 past the hour during the day (no change to peak hours or evenings).
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Post by steve440 on Mar 6, 2024 14:52:31 GMT 1
That's good news. To be honest it's what I was expecting. Pretty much to the same times as when Oldham depot ran it before.
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Mar 6, 2024 15:57:50 GMT 1
They would probably demand more BSIP funding to bring it back
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Post by michael1971 on Mar 6, 2024 16:28:34 GMT 1
i had a feeling 184 would revert back to old route and times awell
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Mar 6, 2024 18:26:30 GMT 1
They would probably demand more BSIP funding to bring it back You could just think of it as First West Yorkshire withdrawing service 184 between Marsden Hard End and Oldham and renumbering it 183
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Mar 6, 2024 19:30:47 GMT 1
They would probably demand more BSIP funding to bring it back You could just think of it as First West Yorkshire withdrawing service 184 between Marsden Hard End and Oldham and renumbering it 183 Bringing back the 183, with the takeover of the 184, would mean it would return to similar levels of service prior to the cuts. If it was so 'unsustainable' they had to cut it and they ended up bringing it back, without BSIP funding, they are basically showing themselves up and admitting the cuts were greedy and unnecessary.
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Mar 6, 2024 20:20:47 GMT 1
You could just think of it as First West Yorkshire withdrawing service 184 between Marsden Hard End and Oldham and renumbering it 183 Bringing back the 183, with the takeover of the 184, would mean it would return to similar levels of service prior to the cuts. If it was so 'unsustainable' they had to cut it and they ended up bringing it back, without BSIP funding, they are basically showing themselves up and admitting the cuts were greedy and unnecessary. The majority of cuts are greedy and unnecessary. For a while, First cared about profit rather than customers and they were going on a route chopping fettish. I still don't understand the reason most Leeds services, 508 and 586 were reduced and regular used services such as 48 and 539 were chopped for no reason. I understand the Wigton Moor to Leeds section of the 48, as it was a copy of the 36 pretty much and the 7 could have been extended there but the majority of routes First cuts doesn't seem to make sense. The 508s are now within minutes of 681s and 586s are in minutes of 587s reducing customer levels so cutting and using a patchy timetable has only made things worse. The question is how much does First need to cut?
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Post by thelupineone on Mar 6, 2024 21:37:56 GMT 1
They would probably demand more BSIP funding to bring it back You could just think of it as First West Yorkshire withdrawing service 184 between Marsden Hard End and Oldham and renumbering it 183 Well the way I logically see it, was that First Manchester gor rid of the 184, and First West Yorkshire just extended their 183 to Oldham and renumbered it the 184. So basically it looks like a reversal of that.
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Mar 6, 2024 21:57:58 GMT 1
You could just think of it as First West Yorkshire withdrawing service 184 between Marsden Hard End and Oldham and renumbering it 183 Well the way I logically see it, was that First Manchester gor rid of the 184, and First West Yorkshire just extended their 183 to Oldham and renumbered it the 184. So basically it looks like a reversal of that. You also have to consider that we lost one bus per hour in that process. If the route returns we gain an extra bus per hour since both run and considering these services have decimated twice in the last year or two the chances of them doing it without wasting more funding isn't likely. Still waiting to see them 'provide better value for taxpayers' and 'increase service reinvestment' as they love to scream about... Perhaps now is the time to show they are capable of that?
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Post by steve440 on Mar 7, 2024 10:16:03 GMT 1
Well the way I logically see it, was that First Manchester gor rid of the 184, and First West Yorkshire just extended their 183 to Oldham and renumbered it the 184. So basically it looks like a reversal of that. You also have to consider that we lost one bus per hour in that process. If the route returns we gain an extra bus per hour since both run and considering these services have decimated twice in the last year or two the chances of them doing it without wasting more funding isn't likely. Still waiting to see them 'provide better value for taxpayers' and 'increase service reinvestment' as they love to scream about... Perhaps now is the time to show they are capable of that? It's nice to see a proper timetable, same times every hour and none of that ludicrous AI timetable rubbish that First seem to be in love with!
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Mar 7, 2024 12:41:59 GMT 1
As Steve 440 says, a non AI timetable! Fantastic! Also they're the exact same running times from over 6 years ago and they worked! Been on the 184 from Huddersfield a few times and there's excessive running time everywhere yet the original times which Stagecoach/TfGM are using is pretty much perfect because it isn't using that complete and utter rubbish that First are using.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Mar 7, 2024 14:27:28 GMT 1
You could just think of it as First West Yorkshire withdrawing service 184 between Marsden Hard End and Oldham and renumbering it 183 Bringing back the 183, with the takeover of the 184, would mean it would return to similar levels of service prior to the cuts. If it was so 'unsustainable' they had to cut it and they ended up bringing it back, without BSIP funding, they are basically showing themselves up and admitting the cuts were greedy and unnecessary. Yes but the 184 is now no longer their concern so it wouldn’t be ‘more funding’ First WY decided they could only run 3 buses to Marsden rather than 4, and going forward First WY would still be only running 3 buses to Marsden if the 183 comes back I presume Metro aren’t paying TfGM anything to run the 184 directly along Manchester Road to Huddersfield
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jimmi
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Post by jimmi on Mar 7, 2024 19:27:07 GMT 1
The reason they suggested that it didn't operate last year was due to a change in train timetables, meaning the connections were no longer possible and likely to impact custom on the service and there was issues securing funding to run this and the 881, the latter also having low passenger numbers. This year the DalesRail service will operate on Saturdays. Just a follow up/note referencing previous discussion of DalesBus service 830, its been confirmed that it won't operate again this summer despite hopes and timetables being drawn up to run the 830 & 881 again, however they cite that they couldn't find operators to provide the services given an increase of services in the lakes on Sundays with Stagecoach and Lonsdale Buses providing extra services from Lancaster to Knott-End. Info courtesy of Lancaster Bus Users Group: lancasterbususers.com/2024/03/07/no-dales-buses-from-lancaster-in-2024/?fbclid=IwAR3EF72MW5Jk2TMs1t4m5b07JkkbDy2D2HH7u84JvtvC9_HRI97pZswY_Xo
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SF07
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Post by SF07 on Mar 7, 2024 21:24:09 GMT 1
The timetable for the 184 is now available on both the TfGM/Bee Network and Metro websites (although separately from the 181/185). The changes on TfGM's website state that: The route map in the PDF also has the 184 still running via Marsden Hard End, Mount Road and Fall Lane but then direct along Manchester Road (via 185 route) to Huddersfield. So, it may well be the case that the Bee Network will continue to serve Hard End on the 184 route and then we might perhaps see something like the 181 increased to half-hourly between Huddersfield and Wilberlee to maintain the service levels between Huddersfield, Linthwaite and Slaithwaite. Evening journeys could potentially run as the 186 between Huddersfield and Marsden Dirker via Linthwaite or perhaps the 185 will be re-instated. Although, I do wonder if the Marsden route is correct from the TfGM map, as the bustimes.org website doesn't list any stops between Standedge Great Western and Marsden Peel Street, when you click on show all stops. Also, there does appear to be one issue with the timetable, in that there is a Saturday journey departing Huddersfield at 1935, yet no journey running from Oldham to Huddersfield at 1803 to start the journey from Huddersfield. So, don't know if the 1803 Saturday journey from Oldham is missing from the timetable or the 1935 Saturday journey from Huddersfield is incorrectly added. assets.ctfassets.net/nv7y93idf4jq/2sc7UbpcOraBgK8hPW2ufc/647d08decae00328dddd4f6f298ad403/84__180__184_24-SC-0093.pdfwww.wymetro.com/buses/timetables/184/31607
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