andy1
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Post by andy1 on Dec 20, 2023 21:56:12 GMT 1
Just a little snippet,(there will be more to come) The enhanced 501 Halifax to Huddersfield BSIP Funded enhancements (every 30 mins) are due to start this month along with the transfer of 549 to Huddersfield depot (OFL) Operating every 30 minutes apparently between the towns .
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Dec 20, 2023 22:50:38 GMT 1
I wonder whether that means the return of the X3? (if it was ever cut in the first place)
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Dec 20, 2023 23:19:26 GMT 1
Just a little snippet,(there will be more to come) The enhanced 501 Halifax to Huddersfield BSIP Funded enhancements (every 30 mins) are due to start this month along with the transfer of 549 to Huddersfield depot (OFL) Operating every 30 minutes apparently between the towns . Still nothing about the 586 though! It needs its hourly frequency back. Running every 2 hours has done nothing but drive passengers away!
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jus363
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Post by jus363 on Dec 21, 2023 10:41:59 GMT 1
Just a little snippet,(there will be more to come) The enhanced 501 Halifax to Huddersfield BSIP Funded enhancements (every 30 mins) are due to start this month along with the transfer of 549 to Huddersfield depot (OFL) Operating every 30 minutes apparently between the towns . Hopefully 47491-495 will transfer back too
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Post by nathan58 on Dec 21, 2023 15:21:17 GMT 1
Does the BSIP funding mean from february the D1 denby darts will go from every 30mins to 20? Anybody know? As i ain't sure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2023 15:24:39 GMT 1
Does the BSIP funding mean from february the D1 denby darts will go from every 30mins to 20? Anybody know? As i ain't sure. I Don't think the D1 frequency increase was ever part of the BSIP, but mentioned as part of franchising so would be around 2026ish if/when it happens.
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Post by nathan58 on Dec 21, 2023 15:54:01 GMT 1
Thankyou for the response.wasnt sure at all cheers.
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Post by deerfold on Dec 21, 2023 16:39:05 GMT 1
Just a little snippet,(there will be more to come) The enhanced 501 Halifax to Huddersfield BSIP Funded enhancements (every 30 mins) are due to start this month along with the transfer of 549 to Huddersfield depot (OFL) Operating every 30 minutes apparently between the towns . Who's said this?
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Dec 21, 2023 20:36:13 GMT 1
Just a little snippet,(there will be more to come) The enhanced 501 Halifax to Huddersfield BSIP Funded enhancements (every 30 mins) are due to start this month along with the transfer of 549 to Huddersfield depot (OFL) Operating every 30 minutes apparently between the towns . Who's said this? Take a peep at his posts he seems to be credible. Must have inside information.
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andy1
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Post by andy1 on Dec 21, 2023 20:58:40 GMT 1
I Wonder who i work for ? Could that have a bearing ?
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Dec 22, 2023 3:56:08 GMT 1
I sincerely hope that First does some proper scheduling on the improved Halifax - Huddersfield services and do away with these awful messy timetables which do no favours in the aid of improving passenger numbers, getting them out of the car and onto the bus. Although I imagine it is going to get a lot worse as they are now using yet another "Artificial Intelligence" scheduling software called "Prospective" which does not work once out of a big city, random odd minutes, non clockface timetables, creeping timetables, running times varying from trip to trip - it all has no place when out of a city. Really strange how the very few timetables that haven't been obliterated through OptiBus and Prospective run to time and are reliable - these are running times from the Yorkshire Rider & Calderline days... I wonder why? Maybe because it was done properly back then. The standard of modern timetables is well and truly diabolical. When I got into scheduling I was sent on a course lead by an old fella who had been doing it donkeys years, taught how to do it all with a real emphasis on good timetables. It seems now all schedulers are shown is the magic button that does it all for them.
Got a bit carried away there, but this is a real opportunity to make these services grow and I feel a lot of services outside of Leeds (and possibly some of Bradford) are let down by really poor scheduling and making it incredibly un-attractive to existing passengers never mind new ones.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Dec 22, 2023 7:05:53 GMT 1
I sincerely hope that First does some proper scheduling on the improved Halifax - Huddersfield services and do away with these awful messy timetables which do no favours in the aid of improving passenger numbers, getting them out of the car and onto the bus. Although I imagine it is going to get a lot worse as they are now using yet another "Artificial Intelligence" scheduling software called "Prospective" which does not work once out of a big city, random odd minutes, non clockface timetables, creeping timetables, running times varying from trip to trip - it all has no place when out of a city. Really strange how the very few timetables that haven't been obliterated through OptiBus and Prospective run to time and are reliable - these are running times from the Yorkshire Rider & Calderline days... I wonder why? Maybe because it was done properly back then. The standard of modern timetables is well and truly diabolical. When I got into scheduling I was sent on a course lead by an old fella who had been doing it donkeys years, taught how to do it all with a real emphasis on good timetables. It seems now all schedulers are shown is the magic button that does it all for them. Got a bit carried away there, but this is a real opportunity to make these services grow and I feel a lot of services outside of Leeds (and possibly some of Bradford) are let down by really poor scheduling and making it incredibly un-attractive to existing passengers never mind new ones. Trust me, this has a massive effect on Leeds services too, services 1 and 1B have seen passenger numbers drop between Leeds and Beeston because many peak journeys are timed close together, or even actually together, with big gaps in between. They've not even re-timed the 65 and 75 to plug gaps. Same too up until recently for peak hour buses on the 51 and 52, a recent re-working of the timetable has seen these gaps reduce, but you do still see a few gaps of 20 to 25 mins.
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Post by deerfold on Dec 22, 2023 12:12:51 GMT 1
I Wonder who i work for ? Could that have a bearing ? I'm sorry. I haven't memorised the employers of everyone on the forum.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2023 14:08:03 GMT 1
I sincerely hope that First does some proper scheduling on the improved Halifax - Huddersfield services and do away with these awful messy timetables which do no favours in the aid of improving passenger numbers, getting them out of the car and onto the bus. Although I imagine it is going to get a lot worse as they are now using yet another "Artificial Intelligence" scheduling software called "Prospective" which does not work once out of a big city, random odd minutes, non clockface timetables, creeping timetables, running times varying from trip to trip - it all has no place when out of a city. Really strange how the very few timetables that haven't been obliterated through OptiBus and Prospective run to time and are reliable - these are running times from the Yorkshire Rider & Calderline days... I wonder why? Maybe because it was done properly back then. The standard of modern timetables is well and truly diabolical. When I got into scheduling I was sent on a course lead by an old fella who had been doing it donkeys years, taught how to do it all with a real emphasis on good timetables. It seems now all schedulers are shown is the magic button that does it all for them. Got a bit carried away there, but this is a real opportunity to make these services grow and I feel a lot of services outside of Leeds (and possibly some of Bradford) are let down by really poor scheduling and making it incredibly un-attractive to existing passengers never mind new ones. If the 501 is to be only Half Hourly I'm guessing it will be a slightly messy timetable either way combined with 503,As you'll end up with either 20Min gaps through Edgerton if they go 10 Mins Halifax > Ainley Top, or just have random frequencies between Halifax & Ainley Top if 503 is to remain Every 15 Mins. First recently announced 'AI' Timetabling is coming to their Scottish Ops so I'm guessing the likes of Optibus is going nowhere for the time being.
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Dec 22, 2023 14:20:25 GMT 1
I sincerely hope that First does some proper scheduling on the improved Halifax - Huddersfield services and do away with these awful messy timetables which do no favours in the aid of improving passenger numbers, getting them out of the car and onto the bus. Although I imagine it is going to get a lot worse as they are now using yet another "Artificial Intelligence" scheduling software called "Prospective" which does not work once out of a big city, random odd minutes, non clockface timetables, creeping timetables, running times varying from trip to trip - it all has no place when out of a city. Really strange how the very few timetables that haven't been obliterated through OptiBus and Prospective run to time and are reliable - these are running times from the Yorkshire Rider & Calderline days... I wonder why? Maybe because it was done properly back then. The standard of modern timetables is well and truly diabolical. When I got into scheduling I was sent on a course lead by an old fella who had been doing it donkeys years, taught how to do it all with a real emphasis on good timetables. It seems now all schedulers are shown is the magic button that does it all for them. Got a bit carried away there, but this is a real opportunity to make these services grow and I feel a lot of services outside of Leeds (and possibly some of Bradford) are let down by really poor scheduling and making it incredibly un-attractive to existing passengers never mind new ones. If the 501 is to be only Half Hourly I'm guessing it will be a slightly messy timetable either way combined with 503,As you'll end up with either 20Min gaps through Edgerton if they go 10 Mins Halifax > Ainley Top, or just have random frequencies between Halifax & Ainley Top if 503 is to remain Every 15 Mins. First recently announced 'AI' Timetabling is coming to their Scottish Ops so I'm guessing the likes of Optibus is going nowhere for the time being. Apparently reliability has jumped by a hefty 20% with the introduction of such timetables. I don't believe it to be honest news.firstbus.co.uk/news/first-bus-joins-forces-with-ai-firm-in-bid-to-futureproof-the-bus-industry
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2023 14:59:01 GMT 1
If the 501 is to be only Half Hourly I'm guessing it will be a slightly messy timetable either way combined with 503,As you'll end up with either 20Min gaps through Edgerton if they go 10 Mins Halifax > Ainley Top, or just have random frequencies between Halifax & Ainley Top if 503 is to remain Every 15 Mins. First recently announced 'AI' Timetabling is coming to their Scottish Ops so I'm guessing the likes of Optibus is going nowhere for the time being. Apparently reliability has jumped by a hefty 20% with the introduction of such timetables. I don't believe it to be honest news.firstbus.co.uk/news/first-bus-joins-forces-with-ai-firm-in-bid-to-futureproof-the-bus-industryI Could see it being true, as it's able to predict traffic more easily but surely there's a way of it doing that but keeping to normal frequencies (unless First have got it set to some sort of 'efficiency mode' to avoid PVR increases)
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Post by deerfold on Dec 22, 2023 16:22:22 GMT 1
I Could see it being true, as it's able to predict traffic more easily but surely there's a way of it doing that but keeping to normal frequencies (unless First have got it set to some sort of 'efficiency mode' to avoid PVR increases) Interestingly no figures on how passenger numbers have changed after its introduction.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2023 16:32:03 GMT 1
I Could see it being true, as it's able to predict traffic more easily but surely there's a way of it doing that but keeping to normal frequencies (unless First have got it set to some sort of 'efficiency mode' to avoid PVR increases) Interestingly no figures on how passenger numbers have changed after its introduction. I'm guessing it's the 'cutting edge technology' mentioned as part of the announcement of the Bristol increases news-wew.firstbus.co.uk/news/2023-woe-figuresOn it's own I Don't think it will increase passenger numbers whilst spitting out random frequencies to fit around First not wanting PVR Increases - right technology used in the wrong way.
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Dec 22, 2023 18:28:18 GMT 1
mattb7tlI have seen a demo of this in action and called it out on how it's flawed. Basically if a service is due to pass a Timing Point at 1430 and it through the data it is on average 9 minutes late, it will then timetable it to be 1439 instead of 1430 (in basic terms). It takes the average delay and uses that. In reality it should be using the "mode" which is the most common delay which may only be 2 - 3 minutes and result in changing the time to 1432 or example. The problem with taking averages is that if there is a road closure or bad snow it all goes into the pot and is taken into account. Not wanting to get too off topic now...
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Dec 22, 2023 20:41:40 GMT 1
This 'AI timetabling' is pathetic. But what else would you expect from the geniuses in First management!
I was looking at the 49 timetable on Eastgate towards Bramley last week and I honestly couldn't believe what I was seeing. The times are all over the show.
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Post by martinsfp on Dec 22, 2023 22:56:20 GMT 1
This 'AI timetabling' is pathetic. But what else would you expect from the geniuses in First management! I was looking at the 49 timetable on Eastgate towards Bramley last week and I honestly couldn't believe what I was seeing. The times are all over the show. As I was saying the other day when I saw a press release rewrite about this on an Essex news site trumpeting about how it had been successfully tested in West Yorkshire, have you seen the ridiculous X11 timetable? This approach puts resource management and impressive-looking-on-a-spreadsheet reliability ahead of usability. The goal should be passenger friendliness to boost bus travel, not this tech-first masquerade designed to help managers hit targets. This can’t be the future of sustainable bus travel unless PVRs are boosted so much that the timetable doesn’t matter.
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Jan 1, 2024 0:23:02 GMT 1
With Calderdale tenders being extended to tie in with the opening of the new Halifax Bus Station, is it possible that they will arrive during these timetable changes or even earlier? I believe it was pretty much the entire Team Pennine network besides 20, 21, 22 and 587 and the Elland bus network with South Pennine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2024 16:32:34 GMT 1
With Calderdale tenders being extended to tie in with the opening of the new Halifax Bus Station, is it possible that they will arrive during these timetable changes or even earlier? I believe it was pretty much the entire Team Pennine network besides 20, 21, 22 and 587 and the Elland bus network with South Pennine. It depends if operators have all already submitted their bids & WYCA have decided who's won what. If they have then it's possible, but if bidding doesn't start until the Bus Station is open then I Doubt they would get everything processed by February.
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Jan 6, 2024 3:42:22 GMT 1
Just a little snippet,(there will be more to come) The enhanced 501 Halifax to Huddersfield BSIP Funded enhancements (every 30 mins) are due to start this month along with the transfer of 549 to Huddersfield depot (OFL) Operating every 30 minutes apparently between the towns . With OFL gaining the 549 does that mean both trips an hour will continue to Huddersfield, and Sundays to Huddersfield?
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Post by glennh2 on Jan 6, 2024 15:42:10 GMT 1
The 501 is evenings and Sundays only. Does this change apply to daytimes and affect the current 343 or mean no more Sunday 503s?
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