WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Aug 20, 2023 18:03:39 GMT 1
It's the same problem on here as always. It's the enthusiast versus the bus user. I know Ilkley well, although it's easier to use the train to Leeds, because it's so much faster and more convenient. You can play with your tape measures all you like, but the fact remains that there is more space at Ilkley bus station. The stands are further apart, so neither the buses nor the passengers are falling over one another. And flowers in bus stations, are all very well, but in Harrogate, it's the limited seating, the cramped width of what is just a sloping pavement thoroughfare with a roof over it, that is open to the elements, where one queue merges into another, and there isn't the space to get past, or you are walking against the flow of passengers. And don't forget, that originally, the design was so bad, that it was open to the road, until they realised the stupidity of the design and hastily glazed it in, which is why it doesn't match the rest of the bus station. There isn't more space at Ilkley. I've lost track of the amount of times I have had to stand in the rain waiting for a bus there because each shelter only only holds about 6 people, and of course I will always give up my place for an elderly or disabled person. Then when you stand outside Stand C for example, you have to stand to the side because of the close proximity to the fence and bushes behind the shelter.
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Post by deerfold on Aug 20, 2023 18:12:10 GMT 1
It's the same problem on here as always. It's the enthusiast versus the bus user. I know Ilkley well, although it's easier to use the train to Leeds, because it's so much faster and more convenient. You can play with your tape measures all you like, but the fact remains that there is more space at Ilkley bus station. The stands are further apart, so neither the buses nor the passengers are falling over one another. And flowers in bus stations, are all very well, but in Harrogate, it's the limited seating, the cramped width of what is just a sloping pavement thoroughfare with a roof over it, that is open to the elements, where one queue merges into another, and there isn't the space to get past, or you are walking against the flow of passengers. And don't forget, that originally, the design was so bad, that it was open to the road, until they realised the stupidity of the design and hastily glazed it in, which is why it doesn't match the rest of the bus station. Do you not like being told you don't know somewhere when you do? Join the club. There's more room per stand at Ilkley, but I don't find it a pleasant place to wait, particularly late at night. If you allowed that amount of space per stand, Harrogate would need to be more than twice the size. Do you like insulting enthusiasts and pretending you're the only one on the forum who catches buses? Whilst Harrogate is too open to the elements, if you've much more than half a dozen passengers waiting for a bus at Ilkley they're entirely outside the shelter and they're at their mercy. With the 62 and X84 being allocated the same stand, it's not unusual to have 2 dozen people waiting at once. I'm wondering where all the seating is at Ilkley. In the stands there's the not quite seats that you can lean on if you're one of the first 4 waiting for the bus and then another 4 seats along the station wall. Then if a bus doesn't pull up ahead of the stand, you either have to walk past all the people waiting in the shelter if there's room or along the wrong side of the "protective" fence until you get to the next stand.
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Post by SCH117X on Aug 20, 2023 23:25:09 GMT 1
And flowers in bus stations, are all very well, but in Harrogate, it's the limited seating, the cramped width of what is just a sloping pavement thoroughfare with a roof over it, that is open to the elements, where one queue merges into another, and there isn't the space to get past, or you are walking against the flow of passengers. And don't forget, that originally, the design was so bad, that it was open to the road, until they realised the stupidity of the design and hastily glazed it in, which is why it doesn't match the rest of the bus station. Noting your constant hate of Transdev Blazefield which goes back way before they took the X98/X99 on maybe you might consider the alternative with any less proactive operator would have been no bus station and bus terminals remaining on street around the general location which extended as far away as the library. The original reopened bus station was funded to a cost they could readily afford given they had already laid out a substantial amount to aquire the site and some services remained at on street terminals until they extended it. As with any development a responsible developer will assess the built form and if tweaks are neccesssary implement them as they are affordble Saying the glazing doesn't match may be your opinion but I never heard any one locally critise it. The old bus station equally was a walkway with the buses parallel to it and further shelters provided to the road pavement. Is it better than on street terminal - yes. Is as good as Leeds bus station to take the ideal you appear to be expecting - no . Is it better than large number of other bus stations - yes
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Aug 21, 2023 8:22:16 GMT 1
Well, now is the ideal time to acquire that land and build a decent bus station, that would then be connected to the railway station. If you want people to use public transport, then it has to be properly integrated and of decent quality, but they won't, because there isn't a budget from Transdev for it, is there? The reason Transdev Blazefield own the bus station is that when as Blazefield Holdings they did what seemed remarkable at time and purchased the site winning a bus operator of year award as a result. The in thing up the then was to dispense of bus stations. Any such improvements would based on schemes previously mooted would not only involve Transdev, but the land owing developer, Network Rail, the Council (at least theres now only one) and the Leeds City Region from whom no doubt a lump of funding would come from if not directly from central government. Whether any such monies are currently avaiable and whether there is any commercial scheme likely in todays retail environment is another matter. There has been central government monies made available to improve the whole the bus/rail station location with the town centre which is really the main problem, the bus station in particular being hemmed in by the A61. Unfortunately the motor car rules in the minds of too many Harrogate residents and that scheme because of narrowing the road, providing an improved pedestrian environment including pedestrianising a side road and, shock horror, a cyclepath has seemingly been killed off by a legal challenge. The money is ringfenced and cannot be spent on anything else. It is very rare for a bus company to still own their bus station, most sold them off for development in the 90's, it was almost unheard of for one to buy one they didn't already own. I'm struggling to think of many bus stations owned by a bus operator still (I think Southern Vectis still own Newport but there aren't many more - Trent own Belper but it is technically their depot and none of the council contracts enter the depot at all so it is only Trent associated companies using it) so the fact the Transdev have funded it & it is as well looked after as it is marked Transdev out as something different on that basis.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Aug 21, 2023 8:52:35 GMT 1
The reason Transdev Blazefield own the bus station is that when as Blazefield Holdings they did what seemed remarkable at time and purchased the site winning a bus operator of year award as a result. The in thing up the then was to dispense of bus stations. Any such improvements would based on schemes previously mooted would not only involve Transdev, but the land owing developer, Network Rail, the Council (at least theres now only one) and the Leeds City Region from whom no doubt a lump of funding would come from if not directly from central government. Whether any such monies are currently avaiable and whether there is any commercial scheme likely in todays retail environment is another matter. There has been central government monies made available to improve the whole the bus/rail station location with the town centre which is really the main problem, the bus station in particular being hemmed in by the A61. Unfortunately the motor car rules in the minds of too many Harrogate residents and that scheme because of narrowing the road, providing an improved pedestrian environment including pedestrianising a side road and, shock horror, a cyclepath has seemingly been killed off by a legal challenge. The money is ringfenced and cannot be spent on anything else. It is very rare for a bus company to still own their bus station, most sold them off for development in the 90's, it was almost unheard of for one to buy one they didn't already own. I'm struggling to think of many bus stations owned by a bus operator still (I think Southern Vectis still own Newport but there aren't many more - Trent own Belper but it is technically their depot and none of the council contracts enter the depot at all so it is only Trent associated companies using it) so the fact the Transdev have funded it & it is as well looked after as it is marked Transdev out as something different on that basis. Wakefield Bus Station - Arriva
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Post by delenn on Aug 21, 2023 10:46:46 GMT 1
Vitto Pizzuti has posted a picture on twitter of red and black paint samples. More 36 teasing!
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rs
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Post by rs on Aug 21, 2023 16:48:15 GMT 1
Vitto Pizzuti has posted a picture on twitter of red and black paint samples. More 36 teasing! Surely he could just look in the depot yard to see what red and black look like together......
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Post by SCH117X on Aug 21, 2023 17:40:58 GMT 1
Vitto Pizzuti has posted a picture on twitter of red and black paint samples. More 36 teasing! Surely he could just look in the depot yard to see what red and black look like together...... Probably more a case of specifying the material to be used and it was a case hey look this shade of red is perfect for us.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2023 16:40:55 GMT 1
Well at least one positive thing about this order, its nice to see someone order something than ADL or Volvo/Wright all the time. The ECitaro would be nice to see, looking forward to it.
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Post by SCH117X on Aug 23, 2023 20:37:49 GMT 1
The Merc Citaro ev is back in use at Harrogate in a plain grey livery
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Aug 27, 2023 9:29:22 GMT 1
I think these are the first E-Citaros ordered by a UK operator. (Some E400EVs have already been ordered for Stagecoach in Oxford). I wonder what vehicles these will replace? I rode a Y reg Volvo B7TL in Keighley yesterday (2716) and it seats were really sagging. The seats on Eclipse 1752 weren't very good either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2023 10:03:42 GMT 1
Probably end up in resulting the Renowns in Blackburn been withdrawn, as they are about 20-23 years old now.
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Post by stephen01 on Aug 27, 2023 10:11:25 GMT 1
Probably end up in resulting the Renowns in Blackburn been withdrawn, as they are about 20-23 years old now. The Renowns should be withdrawn by the end of this week.
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Post by stephen01 on Aug 27, 2023 10:13:33 GMT 1
I think these are the first E-Citaros ordered by a UK operator. (Some E400EVs have already been ordered for Stagecoach in Oxford). I wonder what vehicles these will replace? I rode a Y reg Volvo B7TL in Keighley yesterday (2716) and it seats were really sagging. The seats on Eclipse 1752 weren't very good either. they are to replace the eclipses on 1 (04 regs), 662 (05 regs) and the ones on 7.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Aug 27, 2023 10:35:27 GMT 1
I think these are the first E-Citaros ordered by a UK operator. (Some E400EVs have already been ordered for Stagecoach in Oxford). I wonder what vehicles these will replace? I rode a Y reg Volvo B7TL in Keighley yesterday (2716) and it seats were really sagging. The seats on Eclipse 1752 weren't very good either. The ECitaros will pretty much replace the single deck diesel fleet in Harrogate (except for the 8/X98/X99), but we're not quite sure what's going on with them yet. The deckers will displace the current Gemini 3s on the 36, which I feel may either move to Hotline and Aireline or go back to the leasing company (though they will be hard to shift with the bespoke spec they have!).
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Post by stephen01 on Aug 27, 2023 11:00:37 GMT 1
I think these are the first E-Citaros ordered by a UK operator. (Some E400EVs have already been ordered for Stagecoach in Oxford). I wonder what vehicles these will replace? I rode a Y reg Volvo B7TL in Keighley yesterday (2716) and it seats were really sagging. The seats on Eclipse 1752 weren't very good either. The ECitaros will pretty much replace the single deck diesel fleet in Harrogate (except for the 8/X98/X99), but we're not quite sure what's going on with them yet. The deckers will displace the current Gemini 3s on the 36, which I feel may either move to Hotline and Aireline or go back to the leasing company (though they will be hard to shift with the bespoke spec they have!). be Hotline or Red Express as Aireline is supposed to be of electric too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2023 11:04:18 GMT 1
Probably end up in resulting the Renowns in Blackburn been withdrawn, as they are about 20-23 years old now. The Renowns should be withdrawn by the end of this week. Replaced with what?
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Post by leedsbusman on Aug 27, 2023 11:59:04 GMT 1
The Renowns should be withdrawn by the end of this week. Replaced with what? The aren’t being withdrawn next week.
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Post by stephen01 on Aug 27, 2023 12:01:06 GMT 1
The Renowns should be withdrawn by the end of this week. Replaced with what? with whatever vehicles get displaced at Rosso. It was reported in the fleet changes thread that all the Renowns would be withdrawn by end of August; Burnleys are withdrawn as are the ones at Keighley for Schools (hence the Irwell line eclipses moving over and the ex Blackpool Centros now running on Irwell line).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2023 12:03:37 GMT 1
with whatever vehicles get displaced at Rosso. It was reported in the fleet changes thread that all the Renowns would be withdrawn by end of August; Burnleys are withdrawn as are the ones at Keighley for Schools (hence the Irwell line eclipses moving over and the ex Blackpool Centros now running on Irwell line). As long as it's not the Mellor Stratas or Solo SR's totally inappropriate to be used on the Valley Line or anything small. As Valley Line is an extremely busy route.
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Post by stephen01 on Aug 27, 2023 12:13:39 GMT 1
with whatever vehicles get displaced at Rosso. It was reported in the fleet changes thread that all the Renowns would be withdrawn by end of August; Burnleys are withdrawn as are the ones at Keighley for Schools (hence the Irwell line eclipses moving over and the ex Blackpool Centros now running on Irwell line). As long as it's not the Mellor Stratas or Solo SR's totally inappropriate to be used on the Valley Line or anything small. As Valley Line is an extremely busy route. the Solos and remaining Stratas will more than likely come to Yorkshire.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Aug 27, 2023 13:29:22 GMT 1
The ECitaros will pretty much replace the single deck diesel fleet in Harrogate (except for the 8/X98/X99), but we're not quite sure what's going on with them yet. The deckers will displace the current Gemini 3s on the 36, which I feel may either move to Hotline and Aireline or go back to the leasing company (though they will be hard to shift with the bespoke spec they have!). be Hotline or Red Express as Aireline is supposed to be of electric too. A few people have mentioned this, but it isn't included in the West Yorkshire Zebra bid and there hasn't been any official mention of it anywhere, so I'm not convinced.
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Post by stephen01 on Aug 27, 2023 13:58:24 GMT 1
be Hotline or Red Express as Aireline is supposed to be of electric too. A few people have mentioned this, but it isn't included in the West Yorkshire Zebra bid and there hasn't been any official mention of it anywhere, so I'm not convinced. actually was included in the originally bid; the only change was that the Holmfirth/Hebden Bridge/Todmorden locals section was removed as Metro was going to but in a seperate funding bid for them. First's will have have changed as a few of the routes have been withdrawn.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Aug 27, 2023 14:36:54 GMT 1
A few people have mentioned this, but it isn't included in the West Yorkshire Zebra bid and there hasn't been any official mention of it anywhere, so I'm not convinced. actually was included in the originally bid; the only change was that the Holmfirth/Hebden Bridge/Todmorden locals section was removed as Metro was going to but in a seperate funding bid for them. First's will have have changed as a few of the routes have been withdrawn. The original bid for Transdev only shows the 662 and Airport routes
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2023 14:40:50 GMT 1
A few people have mentioned this, but it isn't included in the West Yorkshire Zebra bid and there hasn't been any official mention of it anywhere, so I'm not convinced. actually was included in the originally bid; the only change was that the Holmfirth/Hebden Bridge/Todmorden locals section was removed as Metro was going to but in a seperate funding bid for them. First's will have have changed as a few of the routes have been withdrawn. The Aireline was not included in the original bid, just the Shuttle & Flyer. I've attached the map from the original bid & for Transdev it's the same as what came in the final bid Your correct over the First plans changing, with the currently planned routes being
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