joseph
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Post by joseph on Jun 7, 2023 20:23:57 GMT 1
Electric buses aren't going to solve one endless problem with this service. As someone who has used the 36 a lot over the past 2 years (at least 2 to 3 times a month, so far in the last 4 weeks I've used it 6 times) I can tell you reliability is bad, has always been bad and doesn't look to be getting any better. Sometimes I've waited up to 50 minutes for a bus during the evening peak, and I've often had to wait a good 20 minutes. Tonight saw two buses travelling together towards Leeds, followed by a cancelled journey meaning obviously the one after would also find itself running late. The 07.45 from Leeds used to be cancelled a hell of a lot towards the end of last year but finally things improved on that front. What is needed is a realistic timetable based on the number of drivers they realistically can give the route, and an abolition of the £2 fare on this route as I'm seeing far too many non regular leisure type travellers catching this to/from Harrogate, it'll get a lot worse in the Summer which isn't good if you work on the route with no alternative. I don't work in Harrogate by the way, I'm in that middle bit with no alternative options! What's also needed is splitting the route in Harrogate with the 36 between Harrogate and Ripon reduced to every hour so as to free up a bus for the Leeds to Harrogate bit. They should look at reducing the Leeds section to Every 15 Minutes where a fair amount of the route has other alternatives even if your bit doesn't rather than going Hourly to Ripon what has no alternatives across all the route. Also why are cheaper fares & the rise of leisure travel seen as a bad thing? Are you saying you'd rather pay around £6-£8 for a reduced service (every 20-30 Mins) what would be the likely reality without them 2 things - you'd certainly notice delays alot more if that happened. You mention the leisure passengers being non-regular, but have you thought if they are pleased with the buses when they use them it could convince them to become more regular users hence getting more cars off the road & reducing the delays that make 2 buses run together. I'm already seeing far too many peak journeys nearly full, a bus missing only adds to that problem which is bad enough when the schools around Harrogate as well as the Grammar School are kicking out, so add on all the leisure lot and you've got a problem. A reduction on the Leeds to Harrogate section is a must bearing in mind the number of missing journeys each day so every 15 mins would be better given they clearly don't have enough drivers for every 10 mins. |
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lucyp
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Post by lucyp on Jun 7, 2023 20:40:58 GMT 1
"Do you know how pantograph opportunity charging works"
Do you know that the pantograph charging is an option, and not standard on BEV buses?
Do you know how many pantograph chargers are at Leeds bus station? None?
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Post by deerfold on Jun 7, 2023 21:13:13 GMT 1
"Do you know how pantograph opportunity charging works" Do you know that the pantograph charging is an option, and not standard on BEV buses? Do you know how many pantograph chargers are at Leeds bus station? None? Do you know how quoting on this forum works? Do you know if that option has been chosen? As we're some way off any electric buses arriving, it's unsurprising that there's no pantograph chargers in Leeds. It's unclear from the outside if they will be needed or useful. Given how keen the combined authority were on bidding for electric buses, I'm sure they'll be keen to help them be a success if that's what they need. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2023 21:13:57 GMT 1
"Do you know how pantograph opportunity charging works" Do you know that the pantograph charging is an option, and not standard on BEV buses? Do you know how many pantograph chargers are at Leeds bus station? None? I Believe the ZEBRA funding includes installing extra pantograph chargers in Harrogate Bus Station so it's safe to assume whatever make the buses are, they will come with them fitted. I Only suggested putting a temporary one into Leeds if/when extra range was needed for a diversion that you said could become a problem(as Kent & Cardiff had temporary ones fitted when using the demo 7900 a few years ago it's possible),although if funding did ever become available it would be a good move to install a permanent one in Leeds. |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jun 7, 2023 22:11:32 GMT 1
There only seems to be 3 cancellations listed for the 36 today
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rs
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Posts: 37
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Post by rs on Jun 7, 2023 22:46:58 GMT 1
They should look at reducing the Leeds section to Every 15 Minutes where a fair amount of the route has other alternatives even if your bit doesn't rather than going Hourly to Ripon what has no alternatives across all the route. Also why are cheaper fares & the rise of leisure travel seen as a bad thing? Are you saying you'd rather pay around £6-£8 for a reduced service (every 20-30 Mins) what would be the likely reality without them 2 things - you'd certainly notice delays alot more if that happened. You mention the leisure passengers being non-regular, but have you thought if they are pleased with the buses when they use them it could convince them to become more regular users hence getting more cars off the road & reducing the delays that make 2 buses run together. I'm already seeing far too many peak journeys nearly full, a bus missing only adds to that problem which is bad enough when the schools around Harrogate as well as the Grammar School are kicking out, so add on all the leisure lot and you've got a problem. A reduction on the Leeds to Harrogate section is a must bearing in mind the number of missing journeys each day so every 15 mins would be better given they clearly don't have enough drivers for every 10 mins. The folk travelling for leisure have just as much right to catch the 36 as those commuting. And whilst the timetable should be reduced to reflect the amount of journeys they can actually run (and this isn't exclusive to the 36) that will only exacerbate the capacity issues. Maybe they need to drop some of their less frequent services to free up some drivers? Though that runs the risk of those drivers moving to whoever takes over the routes. Transdev are in a very tricky position at the moment. They have some very impressive products and some cheap fares to attract new passengers that would ordinarily give the bus a miss. But on the other hand they have an ongoing issue with driver availability and a relatively high staff turnover which is causing major damage to their previously top quality reputation. And yes I'm aware that First, Arriva, Stagecoach etc. all have similar issues, but for most passengers and commuters (not enthusiasts) who use Transdev this is completely irrelevant. |
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Post by rwilkes on Jun 8, 2023 10:17:20 GMT 1
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Post by stevieinselby on Jun 8, 2023 18:42:38 GMT 1
Maybe they need to drop some of their less frequent services to free up some drivers? Though that runs the risk of those drivers moving to whoever takes over the routes. Stopping less frequent routes will be a drop in the ocean. The 36 needs about a dozen buses on the road at the same time to run the full timetable. Routes like the 8, 21 and 24 will only yield one extra shift each, even if you completely cancel all 3 of them that's barely enough to make the difference between a 15-minute and a 10-minute frequency between Leeds and Harrogate from morning peak to evening peak and you've cut off a heck of a lot of passengers in the process. |
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WYBS
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Watch-o
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Post by WYBS on Aug 16, 2023 9:50:10 GMT 1
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lucyp
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Post by lucyp on Aug 16, 2023 12:24:06 GMT 1
Roads minister Richard Holden said:
“It’s fantastic to see Transdev turn its Harrogate fleet to fully electric by ordering 39 new electric buses.
No Mr. Holden, unless they are giving up the 8,21,22,23,59,,X98,X99 and all the school services.
At least they admit that the buses will need a top up during the day. They don't mention the fact that there will be more buses than chargers at Harrogate Bus Station. Cue lots of flat batteries at the side of the road!
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Post by stephen01 on Aug 16, 2023 12:48:33 GMT 1
Roads minister Richard Holden said: “It’s fantastic to see Transdev turn its Harrogate fleet to fully electric by ordering 39 new electric buses. No Mr. Holden, unless they are giving up the 8,21,22,23,59,,X98,X99 and all the school services. At least they admit that the buses will need a top up during the day. They don't mention the fact that there will be more buses than chargers at Harrogate Bus Station. Cue lots of flat batteries at the side of the road! Will you quit the negativity. 59 & X98/X99 will have their own vehicles but 59 will more than likely have an electric vehicle used as it recently got turned to an all-year round service. The School services that Harrogate run will no doubt get EVs too given it's the entire Harrogate fleet going electric. The only routes with current uncertainty atm is 8/21/22/23 as they are under review but 22 & 23 are run by York anyway. You can't also so there'll be loads at side of road with flat batteries as they'll either use Pantograph chargers like the 800 series or have fast charging points in the station. |
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Post by deerfold on Aug 16, 2023 12:49:40 GMT 1
At least they admit that the buses will need a top up during the day. They don't mention the fact that there will be more buses than chargers at Harrogate Bus Station. Cue lots of flat batteries at the side of the road! I'm sure they're capable of planning so that won't happen. We'll see in due course. Why is it "admitting" they need a top up? Why is that a bad thing so long as they get one? I'm sure it surprises no-one - most people know an electric car needs a top up if it's doing a long journey. |
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Post by gledhill56 on Aug 16, 2023 12:54:54 GMT 1
Roads minister Richard Holden said: “It’s fantastic to see Transdev turn its Harrogate fleet to fully electric by ordering 39 new electric buses. No Mr. Holden, unless they are giving up the 8,21,22,23,59,,X98,X99 and all the school services. At least they admit that the buses will need a top up during the day. They don't mention the fact that there will be more buses than chargers at Harrogate Bus Station. Cue lots of flat batteries at the side of the road! Wondered how long it would be before you piped up with the negativity. |
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rs
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Post by rs on Aug 16, 2023 13:06:42 GMT 1
Roads minister Richard Holden said: “It’s fantastic to see Transdev turn its Harrogate fleet to fully electric by ordering 39 new electric buses. No Mr. Holden, unless they are giving up the 8,21,22,23,59,,X98,X99 and all the school services. At least they admit that the buses will need a top up during the day. They don't mention the fact that there will be more buses than chargers at Harrogate Bus Station. Cue lots of flat batteries at the side of the road! There's guaranteed to be teething issues, which to be fair is expected with a change as big as this. With some extra planning and clever timetabling I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to bring a fully charged bus up from the depot to the bus station to swap out with one that needs charging during the day. For a new/replacement technology to succeed it needs to be as good as or better than what it's replacing. Whilst I'm still not a believer that EVs are a valid replacement for the internal combustion engine it'll be interesting to see how the new electric fleet works out over the next few years. It'll also be interesting to know how it affects engineering staff at the depot. There's very little to service on an EV, and what can be serviced requires some pretty specialist kit. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2023 13:08:50 GMT 1
Not sure if the school services deserve new electric buses, I don't think they should have new buses the schools I mean. I think school buses should be buses that are on the way out personally, as kids damage things easily. If kids start damaging brand new buses on school runs, not sure they will want to keep paying the repair bill.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2023 13:58:22 GMT 1
Roads minister Richard Holden said: “It’s fantastic to see Transdev turn its Harrogate fleet to fully electric by ordering 39 new electric buses. No Mr. Holden, unless they are giving up the 8,21,22,23,59,,X98,X99 and all the school services. At least they admit that the buses will need a top up during the day. They don't mention the fact that there will be more buses than chargers at Harrogate Bus Station. Cue lots of flat batteries at the side of the road! routes 22/23 have not served Harrogate in years & 21 & X98/9 never have, with only 3 of school services serving central Harrogate. As 59 normally uses one of the unbranded spare deckers for the 36 I'd assume it will go electric as well (depending on if they have an unbranded spare electric decker or not). When the tender is up for renewal on route 8 it might be Transdev have already decided not to bid on it. I'd guess they will be installing more chargers at Harrogate Bus Station nearer the time the new electrics are due to arrive. Not sure if the school services deserve new electric buses, I don't think they should have new buses the schools I mean. I think school buses should be buses that are on the way out personally, as kids damage things easily. If kids start damaging brand new buses on school runs, not sure they will want to keep paying the repair bill. They don't have to be new buses, could easily get some Ex-London Volvo B5LH/B9TL/Geminis or E400s & have them converted like Newport Bus in Wales are doing. It might be possible a conversion kit to fit the current Scania school buses could be in the works also. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2023 14:21:55 GMT 1
Roads minister Richard Holden said: “It’s fantastic to see Transdev turn its Harrogate fleet to fully electric by ordering 39 new electric buses. No Mr. Holden, unless they are giving up the 8,21,22,23,59,,X98,X99 and all the school services. At least they admit that the buses will need a top up during the day. They don't mention the fact that there will be more buses than chargers at Harrogate Bus Station. Cue lots of flat batteries at the side of the road! routes 22/23 have not served Harrogate in years & 21 & X98/9 never have, with only 3 of school services serving central Harrogate. As 59 normally uses one of the unbranded spare deckers for the 36 I'd assume it will go electric as well (depending on if they have an unbranded spare electric decker or not). When the tender is up for renewal on route 8 it might be Transdev have already decided not to bid on it. I'd guess they will be installing more chargers at Harrogate Bus Station nearer the time the new electrics are due to arrive. Not sure if the school services deserve new electric buses, I don't think they should have new buses the schools I mean. I think school buses should be buses that are on the way out personally, as kids damage things easily. If kids start damaging brand new buses on school runs, not sure they will want to keep paying the repair bill. They don't have to be new buses, could easily get some Ex-London Volvo B5LH/B9TL/Geminis or E400s & have them converted like Newport Bus in Wales are doing. It might be possible a conversion kit to fit the current Scania school buses could be in the works also. Completely forgot about they can retrofit them. They should have done that with the old TX3s in London, instead forcing drivers to either get a new electric cab which is a lot of money, or get another job. |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Aug 16, 2023 17:35:42 GMT 1
No comment at all about the vehicles they’ve purchased
Many comments of people trying to get one over Transdev by pointing out that school buses won’t be electric.
Had Alex Hornby still been with Transdev that clever clogs response would no doubt have been the standard reply from some every time he boasted about the Harrogate network being 100% electric on Twitter
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Post by dlspotter on Aug 16, 2023 18:14:47 GMT 1
They've ordered 19 doubles for the 36, the 36 only ever had 17 of its current branded buses at its peak (before 3615's fire). This leaves the opportunity for two electric buses as spare (more likely in Transdev Go livery than Harrogate Bus Co) which could be used for the 59 or as buses are off the road for recharging.
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Post by deerfold on Aug 16, 2023 19:36:59 GMT 1
No comment at all about the vehicles they’ve purchased Many comments of people trying to get one over Transdev by pointing out that school buses won’t be electric. Had Alex Hornby still been with Transdev that clever clogs response would no doubt have been the standard reply from some every time he boasted about the Harrogate network being 100% electric on Twitter I am not trying to get one over on Transdev what are you talking about? Calling me Clever Clogs, well I think you're one of the most snobbish people on this site. Well a lot of the stuff Alex Hornby says is all PR rubbish, so of course I would say that to him, but he can't take constructive criticism, because he blocks anyone who disagrees with him. I'm beginning to think LucyP is right, if Arriva or First did this, people would jump all over them, but they won't because its Transdev. Why do you think that comment was aimed at you? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2023 19:38:50 GMT 1
I am not trying to get one over on Transdev what are you talking about? Calling me Clever Clogs, well I think you're one of the most snobbish people on this site. Well a lot of the stuff Alex Hornby says is all PR rubbish, so of course I would say that to him, but he can't take constructive criticism, because he blocks anyone who disagrees with him. I'm beginning to think LucyP is right, if Arriva or First did this, people would jump all over them, but they won't because its Transdev. Why do you think that comment was aimed at you? Of course it was, aimed at me and LucyP, all because we questioned what the Minister says. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2023 19:42:17 GMT 1
I am not trying to get one over on Transdev what are you talking about? Calling me Clever Clogs, well I think you're one of the most snobbish people on this site. Well a lot of the stuff Alex Hornby says is all PR rubbish, so of course I would say that to him, but he can't take constructive criticism, because he blocks anyone who disagrees with him. I'm beginning to think LucyP is right, if Arriva or First did this, people would jump all over them, but they won't because its Transdev. Why do you think that comment was aimed at you? And also about School Kids getting brand new electric buses, of course I would say Kids don't deserve brand new buses at all, they're lucky they've got scanias, they start using brand new electrics on schools, I hope they are willing to pay the damages. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2023 19:58:49 GMT 1
I am not trying to get one over on Transdev what are you talking about? Calling me Clever Clogs, well I think you're one of the most snobbish people on this site. Well a lot of the stuff Alex Hornby says is all PR rubbish, so of course I would say that to him, but he can't take constructive criticism, because he blocks anyone who disagrees with him. I'm beginning to think LucyP is right, if Arriva or First did this, people would jump all over them, but they won't because its Transdev. Why do you think that comment was aimed at you? I don't know I apologise westyorkshirebus for lashing out. I didn't mean too. I just find it hard to get excited over new buses or anything positive in West Yorkshire now. |
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WYBS
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Watch-o
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Post by WYBS on Aug 16, 2023 21:03:19 GMT 1
I wonder if this more or less confirms that the Shuttle and Airport Flyers will be getting E-Citaros. I can't see them getting a different product when they have clearly been impressed with Mercedes' product.
I'm looking forward to riding on the new ADL deckers. The only time I have been impressed with one of their new products in recent years were the Scania E400MMCs that Stagecoach Preston got, originally for the X2. They went like Billy-o (whoever he is!).
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Post by stevieinselby on Aug 16, 2023 21:31:42 GMT 1
I'm looking forward to riding on the new ADL deckers. The only time I have been impressed with one of their new products in recent years were the Scania E400MMCs that Stagecoach Preston got, originally for the X2. They went like Billy-o (whoever he is!). I've been highly impressed with the E400MMCs that East Yorkshire use on the X46/X47 and Dalesbus services – they do rattle a bit on shonky roads but no worse than any other bus, the seats are very comfortable, and the deep windows are so much nicer than the high windows on the Gemini 3. They seem to have a decent amount of power, too. |
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