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Post by stephen01 on Aug 16, 2023 21:33:49 GMT 1
I wonder if this more or less confirms that the Shuttle and Airport Flyers will be getting E-Citaros. I can't see them getting a different product when they have clearly been impressed with Mercedes' product. I'm looking forward to riding on the new ADL deckers. The only time I have been impressed with one of their new products in recent years were the Scania E400MMCs that Stagecoach Preston got, originally for the X2. They went like Billy-o (whoever he is!). Shuttle 100% will be. Have Flyer even had any EV demonstrators yet.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Aug 16, 2023 21:53:01 GMT 1
I wonder if this more or less confirms that the Shuttle and Airport Flyers will be getting E-Citaros. I can't see them getting a different product when they have clearly been impressed with Mercedes' product. I'm looking forward to riding on the new ADL deckers. The only time I have been impressed with one of their new products in recent years were the Scania E400MMCs that Stagecoach Preston got, originally for the X2. They went like Billy-o (whoever he is!). Shuttle 100% will be. Have Flyer even had any EV demonstrators yet. They haven't. It was said at the time that the Citaro Demo that Harrogate and Keighley had would be going to Idle for evaluation, but that hasn't happened yet.
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Post by stephen01 on Aug 16, 2023 22:24:56 GMT 1
Shuttle 100% will be. Have Flyer even had any EV demonstrators yet. They haven't. It was said at the time that the Citaro Demo that Harrogate and Keighley had would be going to Idle for evaluation, but that hasn't happened yet. so must be transferring over after current stint in Harrogate
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lucyp
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Post by lucyp on Aug 17, 2023 0:33:39 GMT 1
What "current stint"? When was it last seen in Harrogate?
The problem with the discussions on here is that no one who posts, except me, lives anywhere near Harrogate do they? For the rest it's just a bus enthusiast's hobby. You like to talk about the company, the buses, you enjoy the spin, the new buses which you can make a special effort to ride on as a day out.
Even a government minister is praised. Now, that's got to be a first! What does an all electric fleet in Harrogate mean? The depot, or the route it serves? The X98/9 is run by The Harrogate Bus Company, and based at the Harrogate depot, but drives empty, using diesel, to travel the 9 or 10 miles to start it's fare paying route in Wetherby, isn't that a Harrogate bus really? All but the last 2 of those diesel fuelled miles are in within the Harrogate district!
Cancellations still happen on a daily basis, so where are all these extra drivers going to come from, to shuttle a bus with no juice left back to Starbeck and swap it for one that is fully charged? How long will that take with the traffic on Knaresborough Road, especially with the level crossing delays?
Are they going to install electric pantograph charging at all the stands at Harrogate bus station? How long will that take, and how much disruption will there be? Presently, there are just 3, and installing those was very slow and disruptive. Is there enough current in the system to power charging at every stand?
The 7 only runs once per hour and blocks a stand between services. Will there be a driver at the bus station who moves it, once it is charged, to allow another bus to be charged? Where is that spare driver coming from?
Running the buses is what matters, not what powers them.
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Post by chas on Aug 17, 2023 8:15:28 GMT 1
What "current stint"? When was it last seen in Harrogate? The problem with the discussions on here is that no one who posts, except me, lives anywhere near Harrogate do they? For the rest it's just a bus enthusiast's hobby. You like to talk about the company, the buses, you enjoy the spin, the new buses which you can make a special effort to ride on as a day out. Even a government minister is praised. Now, that's got to be a first! What does an all electric fleet in Harrogate mean? The depot, or the route it serves? The X98/9 is run by The Harrogate Bus Company, and based at the Harrogate depot, but drives empty, using diesel, to travel the 9 or 10 miles to start it's fare paying route in Wetherby, isn't that a Harrogate bus really? All but the last 2 of those diesel fuelled miles are in within the Harrogate district! Cancellations still happen on a daily basis, so where are all these extra drivers going to come from, to shuttle a bus with no juice left back to Starbeck and swap it for one that is fully charged? How long will that take with the traffic on Knaresborough Road, especially with the level crossing delays? Are they going to install electric pantograph charging at all the stands at Harrogate bus station? How long will that take, and how much disruption will there be? Presently, there are just 3, and installing those was very slow and disruptive. Is there enough current in the system to power charging at every stand? The 7 only runs once per hour and blocks a stand between services. Will there be a driver at the bus station who moves it, once it is charged, to allow another bus to be charged? Where is that spare driver coming from? Running the buses is what matters, not what powers them. I live just a stone’s throw from Harrogate - was on the 7 & X70 yesterday. Not used the 36 for a couple of weeks when I also used the X99 - and the 110. As I understand it, the main delay at HBS was the power supply - hopefully that has been organised well in advance this time. Disruption there must be. And will they still be top chargers? - going to be quite high then and a potential ‘eyesore’ for some people.
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Post by sharksmith on Aug 17, 2023 9:05:46 GMT 1
What "current stint"? When was it last seen in Harrogate? The problem with the discussions on here is that no one who posts, except me, lives anywhere near Harrogate do they? For the rest it's just a bus enthusiast's hobby. You like to talk about the company, the buses, you enjoy the spin, the new buses which you can make a special effort to ride on as a day out. Even a government minister is praised. Now, that's got to be a first! What does an all electric fleet in Harrogate mean? The depot, or the route it serves? The X98/9 is run by The Harrogate Bus Company, and based at the Harrogate depot, but drives empty, using diesel, to travel the 9 or 10 miles to start it's fare paying route in Wetherby, isn't that a Harrogate bus really? All but the last 2 of those diesel fuelled miles are in within the Harrogate district! Cancellations still happen on a daily basis, so where are all these extra drivers going to come from, to shuttle a bus with no juice left back to Starbeck and swap it for one that is fully charged? How long will that take with the traffic on Knaresborough Road, especially with the level crossing delays? Are they going to install electric pantograph charging at all the stands at Harrogate bus station? How long will that take, and how much disruption will there be? Presently, there are just 3, and installing those was very slow and disruptive. Is there enough current in the system to power charging at every stand? The 7 only runs once per hour and blocks a stand between services. Will there be a driver at the bus station who moves it, once it is charged, to allow another bus to be charged? Where is that spare driver coming from? Running the buses is what matters, not what powers them. And there is the crux of the problem, the majority of non bus enthusiasts firmly believe that their local company is the absolute worst, as they remember them on their worst days and not so much when everything goes as it should. This is why First & Arriva get so much grief on this site, as there are more members who live in their areas. If anything the love on here goes to Stagecoach and Go Ahead and even National Express because they have little exposure in West Yorkshire. Ask the folks of Barnsley & Carlisle what they think of Stagecoach. Go North West got absolutely slated locally when they took over from First in Manchester. I saw plenty of comments saying they were worse than First. I had a few days in the West Midlands earlier this year and NatEx were receiving torrents of grief on social media and in the local press. Running a bus company is a difficult and thankless task and in the main I don't really think there is much difference between the major groups from a service delivery point of view. There are of course pro's and con's for each company and I just think a balanced view is needed. You do seem to have a very low opinion of bus enthusiasts in general but this is what this forum caters for. There are plenty of 'I hate Transdev' Facebook sites where you will get all the agreement you seem to crave and at the end of the day it's not really the bus companies idea to go electric, it's a government push. Other areas all have their own schemes which are always launched with the same fanfare as this order is receiving. Before you respond with your usual hatred I would point out that I do live in an area where my buses are run by Transdev and First, I find neither better than the other, see my previous posts on commuting on Aireline. Buses are not my whole world as I have a family and plenty of other interests. I just seem to have a more balanced and less blinkered view of the industry. On your last point, you do realise that all of the duty managers in Harrogate can drive buses and can, and do, shunt buses where necessary, no extra driver needed for this.
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Post by SCH117X on Aug 17, 2023 21:52:10 GMT 1
The problem with the discussions on here is that no one who posts, except me, lives anywhere near Harrogate do they? Given my local routes is Harrogate Electric Route 3 thats one point straight away you are wrong on. Are they going to install electric pantograph charging at all the stands at Harrogate bus station? How long will that take, and how much disruption will there be? Presently, there are just 3, and installing those was very slow and disruptive. Is there enough current in the system to power charging at every stand? I understand a planning application to North Yokshire Council is to be made in the next week or so for additional pantographs at the bus station. The issue with the original ones was the provision of the neccessary electric supply was delayed outside of Transdevs control and hence why they installed a generator for the neccessary period.
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Post by SCH117X on Aug 17, 2023 22:49:19 GMT 1
Shuttle 100% will be. Have Flyer even had any EV demonstrators yet. They haven't. It was said at the time that the Citaro Demo that Harrogate and Keighley had would be going to Idle for evaluation, but that hasn't happened yet. Its being reported (WYIS) that it has been acquired and is having a new livery applied.
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Post by leedsbusman on Aug 18, 2023 18:54:07 GMT 1
They haven't. It was said at the time that the Citaro Demo that Harrogate and Keighley had would be going to Idle for evaluation, but that hasn't happened yet. Its being reported (WYIS) that it has been acquired and is having a new livery applied. I asked today and was told this isn’t the case. It will be back after it’s current period away but isn’t purchased and isn’t being repainted.
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lucyp
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Post by lucyp on Aug 19, 2023 13:28:11 GMT 1
SCH117X - You've missed the point.
I wasn't referring to the generator fiasco of last time, although that was a farce of their own making. If I sign up to say O2 for my mobile phone contract without checking what the signal at my house is like first, then isn't it my fault when my phone never works? Shouldn't I have checked first and then signed with say Vodafone instead?
The points are these:
(1) Is there enough current in the system now to have a rapid charger at every stand at the bus station? Or is it going to be a case of fine when there are 2 charging at the same time, which is about the maximum that happens at the moment, or will it be down to a trickle charge when every stand has a bus on it demanding electricity? The electric chargers for cars that are rated at 100 and have a connection on the left and one on the right are only 100 if there is one car using one side. Connect one on each side and it is 50 each.
(2) The real fiasco last time was stands being out of use at the bus station/the bus station closed to allow just 3 chargers to be installed. Buses having to stop outside on yellow lines, getting parking tickets, no one knowing where the bus was leaving from. Imagine this time when far more than 3 have to be installed! A bus station that these days has as many Connexions buses using it as Transdev, since they have slashed routes and frequencies.
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Post by deerfold on Aug 19, 2023 14:11:03 GMT 1
SCH117X - You've missed the point. I wasn't referring to the generator fiasco of last time, although that was a farce of their own making. If I sign up to say O2 for my mobile phone contract without checking what the signal at my house is like first, then isn't it my fault when my phone never works? Shouldn't I have checked first and then signed with say Vodafone instead? The points are these: (1) Is there enough current in the system now to have a rapid charger at every stand at the bus station? Or is it going to be a case of fine when there are 2 charging at the same time, which is about the maximum that happens at the moment, or will it be down to a trickle charge when every stand has a bus on it demanding electricity? The electric chargers for cars that are rated at 100 and have a connection on the left and one on the right are only 100 if there is one car using one side. Connect one on each side and it is 50 each. (2) The real fiasco last time was stands being out of use at the bus station/the bus station closed to allow just 3 chargers to be installed. Buses having to stop outside on yellow lines, getting parking tickets, no one knowing where the bus was leaving from. Imagine this time when far more than 3 have to be installed! A bus station that these days has as many Connexions buses using it as Transdev, since they have slashed routes and frequencies. You know, you might not have more luck convincing people if you didn't make up ludicrous lies. Even during the hours they run, Connecxions run a quarter of the buses from Harrogate.
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lucyp
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Post by lucyp on Aug 19, 2023 14:33:20 GMT 1
And maybe if you ever came to Harrogate then you might see the reality. Have you ever been? It's a long way from where you live, and it's a very different area isn't it?
The 7 blocks the stand that the X70 uses, as it sits, unused, between services. The X70 is twice as frequent during the day as the 7. Where does the X70 go when there is a 7 blocking the stand, and the other stands are out of use because of the building works to install the electric chargers?
Transdev don't go to Otley from Harrogate any longer. Connexions do. Where does the X52 go in the building works?
Where does the X1 go? The X12? The Sainsbury's free bus that they operate?
Do you even know what Harrogate bus station looks like, and what the road is like outside and the traffic? Do you have any idea of the disruption that is going to be caused?
Do you know that Stand 1 cannot be used anymore because you can no longer reverse a bus from the stand because of the infrastructure behind it for the electric charging?
Do you know that the existing Volvo BEV's are longer than the diesel buses and therefore parking buses against the wall has had to be restricted, otherwise they cannot be reversed from a stand?
What is going to happen when more chargers are installed? Will there be further restrictions?
Do you know that Harrogate bus station (owned by Transdev) is the worst bus station in Yorkshire? It's too small, it's open to the elements, so it is cold and draughty in winter, it's built over a pavement, it's next to a busy road, it isn't water-tight, it has no facilities, inadequate seating etc.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Aug 19, 2023 14:56:27 GMT 1
And maybe if you ever came to Harrogate then you might see the reality. Have you ever been? It's a long way from where you live, and it's a very different area isn't it? The 7 blocks the stand that the X70 uses, as it sits, unused, between services. The X70 is twice as frequent during the day as the 7. Where does the X70 go when there is a 7 blocking the stand, and the other stands are out of use because of the building works to install the electric chargers? Transdev don't go to Otley from Harrogate any longer. Connexions do. Where does the X52 go in the building works? Where does the X1 go? The X12? The Sainsbury's free bus that they operate? Do you even know what Harrogate bus station looks like, and what the road is like outside and the traffic? Do you have any idea of the disruption that is going to be caused? Do you know that Stand 1 cannot be used anymore because you can no longer reverse a bus from the stand because of the infrastructure behind it for the electric charging? Do you know that the existing Volvo BEV's are longer than the diesel buses and therefore parking buses against the wall has had to be restricted, otherwise they cannot be reversed from a stand? What is going to happen when more chargers are installed? Will there be further restrictions? Do you know that Harrogate bus station (owned by Transdev) is the worst bus station in Yorkshire? It's too small, it's open to the elements, so it is cold and draughty in winter, it's built over a pavement, it's next to a busy road, it isn't water-tight, it has no facilities, inadequate seating etc. 'Worst bus station in Yorkshire'. Nonsense. Have you ever visited Dewsbury, Wakefield or Pontefract? They're total dumps. And does it really matter where the Connexions buses will go from? From my experience they often don't show up, and of course don't run evenings and Sundays.
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Aug 19, 2023 15:01:41 GMT 1
SCH117X - You've missed the point. I wasn't referring to the generator fiasco of last time, although that was a farce of their own making. If I sign up to say O2 for my mobile phone contract without checking what the signal at my house is like first, then isn't it my fault when my phone never works? Shouldn't I have checked first and then signed with say Vodafone instead? The points are these: (1) Is there enough current in the system now to have a rapid charger at every stand at the bus station? Or is it going to be a case of fine when there are 2 charging at the same time, which is about the maximum that happens at the moment, or will it be down to a trickle charge when every stand has a bus on it demanding electricity? The electric chargers for cars that are rated at 100 and have a connection on the left and one on the right are only 100 if there is one car using one side. Connect one on each side and it is 50 each. (2) The real fiasco last time was stands being out of use at the bus station/the bus station closed to allow just 3 chargers to be installed. Buses having to stop outside on yellow lines, getting parking tickets, no one knowing where the bus was leaving from. Imagine this time when far more than 3 have to be installed! A bus station that these days has as many Connexions buses using it as Transdev, since they have slashed routes and frequencies. It is more like buying a mobile phone on the promise that a new aerial will be installed to give reception for you area and then the works are delayed. You can't go to another supplier as there is only one, you are dealing with the National Grid for the connections not choosing between electricity companies and they have a lot of calls on their time and a couple of chargers for a bus company can be fairly low down the priority order though often can be done fairly quickly if they are prioritised. There is a lot of discussion of issues that are based on the needs of the wrong vehicles - the ones currently in service not the ones being bought. The Volvos Transdev bought for the Town Services were designed around the principle of opportunity charging after every trip (or at worst every couple of trips) meaning they have smaller battery packs and need regular recharging during the day as their maximum range is quite low. This is a common solution in Europe where it is easier and more common for local authorities to participate in installing charging infrastructure at the roadside. The ADL deckers, and largely the Mercedes eCitaro, are built around a concept of being able to operate a full standard day on a single charge so the requirement for recharging is much lower. It is likely that the suggestion of top up charging during the day comes from the long days on some of the services (with services starting quite early & running pretty late on the 36 at least) that mean the buses on those boards will probably need a top up during the day even with a bus capable of covering 300kms in a day. We do this with our electric buses as we have some quite long days on some of those workings and we bring ours back to the depot to do this using drivers on break or drivers at the end of early shifts & start of late shifts who would be making the trip anyway and just use them to shuttle buses back & forth so there is no extra driving resource and little to no cost incurred. Transdev may well want to add a couple of extra chargers into the bus station (more likely to be the layover bays than the stands though both manufacturers have supplied buses using pantograph top up charging in the past so Transdev may request it and install masts on more stands to standardise things) as the layover bays are quite restricted. It is unlikely that any further upgrade to the link to the grid at the bus station would be needed as the issue is around how many vehicles are charging at once and even if you managed to need one bus per route charging you are only looking at half a dozen or so which is probably already more than amply catered for with the current link. The depot may need an upgrade in the transformer feeding the depot given the extra number being charged overnight but it is unlikely the depot will and you aren't dealing with the National Grid at this point.
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Post by deerfold on Aug 19, 2023 15:57:01 GMT 1
And maybe if you ever came to Harrogate then you might see the reality. Have you ever been? It's a long way from where you live, and it's a very different area isn't it? The 7 blocks the stand that the X70 uses, as it sits, unused, between services. The X70 is twice as frequent during the day as the 7. Where does the X70 go when there is a 7 blocking the stand, and the other stands are out of use because of the building works to install the electric chargers? Transdev don't go to Otley from Harrogate any longer. Connexions do. Where does the X52 go in the building works? Where does the X1 go? The X12? The Sainsbury's free bus that they operate? Do you even know what Harrogate bus station looks like, and what the road is like outside and the traffic? Do you have any idea of the disruption that is going to be caused? Do you know that Stand 1 cannot be used anymore because you can no longer reverse a bus from the stand because of the infrastructure behind it for the electric charging? Do you know that the existing Volvo BEV's are longer than the diesel buses and therefore parking buses against the wall has had to be restricted, otherwise they cannot be reversed from a stand? What is going to happen when more chargers are installed? Will there be further restrictions? Do you know that Harrogate bus station (owned by Transdev) is the worst bus station in Yorkshire? It's too small, it's open to the elements, so it is cold and draughty in winter, it's built over a pavement, it's next to a busy road, it isn't water-tight, it has no facilities, inadequate seating etc. You know that those things weren't what I commented on? I don't live that far from Harrogate but do visit reasonably often (and used to visit more often as it was where my wife lived when I met her). Harrogate bus station is lovely compared with Skipton. I'm aware Transdev don't travel between Otley and Harrogate. When Transdev started running the 62 to Harrogate, Connexions doubled their service to Ilkley and put it 5 minutes ahead of Transdev's. Now we don't have either, so now I get the train to Harrogate or the 59, but then often catch local buses.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Aug 19, 2023 16:21:48 GMT 1
Why is it being discussed as if buses being powered by electricity is just some silly idea that Transdev have just dreamed up?
It is happening everywhere, regardless of the operator, and if Arriva, Stagecoach or First ran Harrogate they would no doubt be introducing electric buses within the next decade.
Also the size of Harrogate Bus Station isn’t Transdev’s fault either. Hasn’t it existed in various layouts on that site for about 100 years? Ideally they’d have a bigger site with a fully enclosed building but I can’t see anywhere in Harrogate where there is space to build one. Ideally Network Rail could vacate that site behind so they could expand it backwards towards the railway
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2023 17:07:38 GMT 1
Why is it being discussed as if buses being powered by electricity is just some silly idea that Transdev have just dreamed up? It is happening everywhere, regardless of the operator, and if Arriva, Stagecoach or First ran Harrogate they would no doubt be introducing electric buses within the next decade. Also the size of Harrogate Bus Station isn’t Transdev’s fault either. Hasn’t it existed in various layouts on that site for about 100 years? Ideally they’d have a bigger site with a fully enclosed building but I can’t see anywhere in Harrogate where there is space to build one. Ideally Network Rail could vacate that site behind so they could expand it backwards towards the railway Of course if the Council are as bus friendly as they make out at times then why not close the small Station Parade car park they own (the one between the Bus Station & the footbridge) & use the land to extend the bus station. Would be able to fit 3-4 extra stands plus layover space. It's almost laughable when you see & think about some of the large scale electrification of bus networks in both the UK & across Europe but yet people (or should that be a person?) are trying to make out Harrogate is the great anomaly what will be impossible to convert.
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Post by stevieinselby on Aug 19, 2023 21:52:59 GMT 1
Do you know that Harrogate bus station (owned by Transdev) is the worst bus station in Yorkshire? It's too small, it's open to the elements, so it is cold and draughty in winter, it's built over a pavement, it's next to a busy road, it isn't water-tight, it has no facilities, inadequate seating etc. The worst in Yorkshire? No wonder no-one takes you seriously when you come out with nonsense like this. I give you... BridlingtonSelbyIlkleyIf you want to see something monumentally inadequate, there's NorthallertonAnd of course who could forget Scarborough ... or is this one Scarborough? ... or maybe it's ScarboroughDon't even get me started on York...
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Post by Burnside on Aug 20, 2023 8:39:15 GMT 1
And maybe if you ever came to Harrogate then you might see the reality. Have you ever been? It's a long way from where you live, and it's a very different area isn't it? The 7 blocks the stand that the X70 uses, as it sits, unused, between services. The X70 is twice as frequent during the day as the 7. Where does the X70 go when there is a 7 blocking the stand, and the other stands are out of use because of the building works to install the electric chargers? Transdev don't go to Otley from Harrogate any longer. Connexions do. Where does the X52 go in the building works? Where does the X1 go? The X12? The Sainsbury's free bus that they operate? Do you even know what Harrogate bus station looks like, and what the road is like outside and the traffic? Do you have any idea of the disruption that is going to be caused? Do you know that Stand 1 cannot be used anymore because you can no longer reverse a bus from the stand because of the infrastructure behind it for the electric charging? Do you know that the existing Volvo BEV's are longer than the diesel buses and therefore parking buses against the wall has had to be restricted, otherwise they cannot be reversed from a stand? What is going to happen when more chargers are installed? Will there be further restrictions? Do you know that Harrogate bus station (owned by Transdev) is the worst bus station in Yorkshire? It's too small, it's open to the elements, so it is cold and draughty in winter, it's built over a pavement, it's next to a busy road, it isn't water-tight, it has no facilities, inadequate seating etc. Bit in bold: The 7900e's are only longer than the Volvo Double Deckers. B7RLE's and the 7900e's are all the same length at 12m.
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Post by SCH117X on Aug 20, 2023 13:02:53 GMT 1
Of course if the Council are as bus friendly as they make out at times then why not close the small Station Parade car park they own (the one between the Bus Station & the footbridge) & use the land to extend the bus station. Would be able to fit 3-4 extra stands plus layover space. The original reopended bus station was smaller and has expanded onto the car park. That was faciliated by the former Borough Council refusing planning permission for a commercial development on the site. There have been various proposals since for a redevelopment of the whole site incorparating still a bus station which seem to have gone nowhere. I think the car park is actually on developer owned land but is operated by the Council as they have the immediate local management facilties.
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lucyp
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Post by lucyp on Aug 20, 2023 14:45:50 GMT 1
Well, now is the ideal time to acquire that land and build a decent bus station, that would then be connected to the railway station. If you want people to use public transport, then it has to be properly integrated and of decent quality, but they won't, because there isn't a budget from Transdev for it, is there?
It's just going to be months of disruption, excavations, closed stands, buses queuing for a stand, no one knowing where the bus is departing from whilst more electric chargers are installed, and when it is completed, you still have the same, inadequate bus station. Pimped up, battery powered new bus, but an unappealing bus station, so people will just drive, or use the train.
It's no use comparing Harrogate with places like Bridlington, Scarborough and Selby. Bridlington and Scarborough are faded-glory/rundown/rough/grotty, you-name-it, typical UK seaside towns. What is the average house price, or car spend in Harrogate compared with Bridlington or Selby?
Northallerton is a small market town.
Ilkley is more comparable, and the bus station is better. It's larger, it isn't built over a pavement, it isn't right next to a road, with cars going past, about 6 inches from your head. It is right next to the station, and each stand has a dedicated shelter, so there are more seats and one queue isn't merging into another and you don't have to push past the queues to get to the next stand and fight the people walking the other way to get through. And the buses don't have to reverse in a tight space, or wait for another bus to reverse out before they can leave, and there is no queuing for stands.
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Post by deerfold on Aug 20, 2023 15:00:54 GMT 1
It's no use comparing Harrogate with places like Bridlington, Scarborough and Selby. Bridlington and Scarborough are faded-glory/rundown/rough/grotty, you-name-it, typical UK seaside towns. What is the average house price, or car spend in Harrogate compared with Bridlington or Selby? Northallerton is a small market town. Ilkley is more comparable, and the bus station is better. It's larger, it isn't built over a pavement, it isn't right next to a road, with cars going past, about 6 inches from your head. It is right next to the station, and each stand has a dedicated shelter, so there are more seats and one queue isn't merging into another and you don't have to push past the queues to get to the next stand and fight the people walking the other way to get through. And the buses don't have to reverse in a tight space, or wait for another bus to reverse out before they can leave, and there is no queuing for stands. If there's no use comporing Harrogate bus station with those, why did you say it was the worst in Yorkshire, with no qualifications? Ilkley bus station has 3 stands and room for a couple of buses to stand. It's fine for the size of the town and the number of local buses (though for some reason more than half the buses are allocated to one stand). It has no staff at any time. There's no information on buses you can take away (the neighbouring rail station has some information on buses from Ilkley to the Dales, the tourist information office down the road no longer has timetable leaflets). It would struggle enormously with the number of departures Harrogate has. Sounds like you don't know Ilkley well.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Aug 20, 2023 15:06:20 GMT 1
Well, now is the ideal time to acquire that land and build a decent bus station, that would then be connected to the railway station. If you want people to use public transport, then it has to be properly integrated and of decent quality, but they won't, because there isn't a budget from Transdev for it, is there? It's just going to be months of disruption, excavations, closed stands, buses queuing for a stand, no one knowing where the bus is departing from whilst more electric chargers are installed, and when it is completed, you still have the same, inadequate bus station. Pimped up, battery powered new bus, but an unappealing bus station, so people will just drive, or use the train. It's no use comparing Harrogate with places like Bridlington, Scarborough and Selby. Bridlington and Scarborough are faded-glory/rundown/rough/grotty, you-name-it, typical UK seaside towns. What is the average house price, or car spend in Harrogate compared with Bridlington or Selby? Northallerton is a small market town. Ilkley is more comparable, and the bus station is better. It's larger, it isn't built over a pavement, it isn't right next to a road, with cars going past, about 6 inches from your head. It is right next to the station, and each stand has a dedicated shelter, so there are more seats and one queue isn't merging into another and you don't have to push past the queues to get to the next stand and fight the people walking the other way to get through. And the buses don't have to reverse in a tight space, or wait for another bus to reverse out before they can leave, and there is no queuing for stands. It's not an 'unappealing bus station' at all. I've always liked it. It's clean, there's flowers, electric information boards, a staffed information point, I like the design of the shelter and so on... The only negative is that it's exposed to the elements. Also did you just state that Ilkley 'bus station' (which isn't even a proper bus station) is larger than Harrogate Bus Station? Oy vey iz mir!
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Post by SCH117X on Aug 20, 2023 17:42:36 GMT 1
Well, now is the ideal time to acquire that land and build a decent bus station, that would then be connected to the railway station. If you want people to use public transport, then it has to be properly integrated and of decent quality, but they won't, because there isn't a budget from Transdev for it, is there? The reason Transdev Blazefield own the bus station is that when as Blazefield Holdings they did what seemed remarkable at time and purchased the site winning a bus operator of year award as a result. The in thing up the then was to dispense of bus stations. Any such improvements would based on schemes previously mooted would not only involve Transdev, but the land owing developer, Network Rail, the Council (at least theres now only one) and the Leeds City Region from whom no doubt a lump of funding would come from if not directly from central government. Whether any such monies are currently avaiable and whether there is any commercial scheme likely in todays retail environment is another matter. There has been central government monies made available to improve the whole the bus/rail station location with the town centre which is really the main problem, the bus station in particular being hemmed in by the A61. Unfortunately the motor car rules in the minds of too many Harrogate residents and that scheme because of narrowing the road, providing an improved pedestrian environment including pedestrianising a side road and, shock horror, a cyclepath has seemingly been killed off by a legal challenge. The money is ringfenced and cannot be spent on anything else.
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lucyp
Forum Member
Posts: 142
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Post by lucyp on Aug 20, 2023 17:47:27 GMT 1
It's the same problem on here as always. It's the enthusiast versus the bus user.
I know Ilkley well, although it's easier to use the train to Leeds, because it's so much faster and more convenient.
You can play with your tape measures all you like, but the fact remains that there is more space at Ilkley bus station. The stands are further apart, so neither the buses nor the passengers are falling over one another.
And flowers in bus stations, are all very well, but in Harrogate, it's the limited seating, the cramped width of what is just a sloping pavement thoroughfare with a roof over it, that is open to the elements, where one queue merges into another, and there isn't the space to get past, or you are walking against the flow of passengers. And don't forget, that originally, the design was so bad, that it was open to the road, until they realised the stupidity of the design and hastily glazed it in, which is why it doesn't match the rest of the bus station.
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