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Post by rhythmb on Jul 10, 2022 9:18:54 GMT 1
I'm surprised the 195/6 hasn't had any changes. I heard in January it was up for tender in July.
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Post by Username on Jul 10, 2022 10:26:28 GMT 1
I'm surprised the 195/6 hasn't had any changes. I heard in January it was up for tender in July. Surprised how 195/6 are tendered routes they are really popular didn't think Metro needed to support the services to run.
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Post by stephen01 on Jul 10, 2022 10:41:16 GMT 1
I'm surprised the 195/6 hasn't had any changes. I heard in January it was up for tender in July. are you sure you dont mean the free night evening service Falcon Travel have been running as the 195 & 196 are commercial routes
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Post by rhythmb on Jul 10, 2022 10:52:37 GMT 1
I'm surprised the 195/6 hasn't had any changes. I heard in January it was up for tender in July. are you sure you dont mean the free night evening service Falcon Travel have been running as the 195 & 196 are commercial routes No it was mentioned in January prior to the falcon travel service being established. What's the difference between a commercial route and a tendered route? Sorry, dumb question.
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Post by stephen01 on Jul 10, 2022 11:08:29 GMT 1
are you sure you dont mean the free night evening service Falcon Travel have been running as the 195 & 196 are commercial routes No it was mentioned in January prior to the falcon travel service being established. What's the difference between a commercial route and a tendered route? Sorry, dumb question. a Commercial route is a route that is run without support from PTE so funded directly from the operator. A Tendered route is a route with funding by Metro/PTE so for examples 147 Sundays, 212 evening & Sundays, 213 & 230/230A are funded by Metro. Wakefield Free City Bus, Dewsbury Free Town Bus, Huddersfield Free Town Bus and the ML1 Firthcliffe Circular, ML2 Dewsbury-Shawcross Circular, parts of the 259 (Scholes to East Birley), Holmfirth Locals (Stotts ran), Hebden Bridge locals and Todmorden locals are also examples as is the Ossett to Batley route (119/120, currently 122 and changing to 112 as of 25th July)
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Post by Username on Jul 10, 2022 13:39:17 GMT 1
No it was mentioned in January prior to the falcon travel service being established. What's the difference between a commercial route and a tendered route? Sorry, dumb question. a Commercial route is a route that is run without support from PTE so funded directly from the operator. A Tendered route is a route with funding by Metro/PTE so for examples 147 Sundays, 212 evening & Sundays, 213 & 230/230A are funded by Metro. Wakefield Free City Bus, Dewsbury Free Town Bus, Huddersfield Free Town Bus and the ML1 Firthcliffe Circular, ML2 Dewsbury-Shawcross Circular, parts of the 259 (Scholes to East Birley), Holmfirth Locals (Stotts ran), Hebden Bridge locals and Todmorden locals are also examples as is the Ossett to Batley route (119/120, currently 122 and changing to 112 as of 25th July) And then an enormous list of Calderdale Bus Services.
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Post by yorkslad on Jul 10, 2022 16:40:54 GMT 1
Technically they're not commercial or tendered/supported routes but journeys. You could have a really popular route during the day (commercial) but needing financial support to run evenings and weekends, or some early morning journeys.
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Post by leeds rider on Jul 11, 2022 13:47:37 GMT 1
I'm surprised the 195/6 hasn't had any changes. I heard in January it was up for tender in July. Even if it was, it may have been re-won by the incumbent operator with no changes.
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Post by peter44 on Jul 19, 2022 11:13:23 GMT 1
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Post by Username on Jul 19, 2022 21:42:15 GMT 1
I think the message saying " We’d like to thank all our customers over the years who have travelled with us" for the Arriva's lost contracts are completely automated. The 122 has only been operating for a short while with Arriva, I have no idea what tey mean with over the years.
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Post by twy7 on Jul 19, 2022 21:45:33 GMT 1
I think the message saying " We’d like to thank all our customers over the years who have travelled with us" for the Arriva's lost contracts are completely automated. The 122 has only been operating for a short while with Arriva, I have no idea what tey mean with over the years. The part they have lost was 119 and 120 contract before it was 122.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jul 19, 2022 22:30:07 GMT 1
I think the message saying " We’d like to thank all our customers over the years who have travelled with us" for the Arriva's lost contracts are completely automated. The 122 has only been operating for a short while with Arriva, I have no idea what tey mean with over the years. Yes but other Arriva services covered that route before, it wasn’t a completely new service to a new area
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Post by stephen01 on Jul 19, 2022 22:45:10 GMT 1
I think the message saying " We’d like to thank all our customers over the years who have travelled with us" for the Arriva's lost contracts are completely automated. The 122 has only been operating for a short while with Arriva, I have no idea what tey mean with over the years. The part they have lost was 119 and 120 contract before it was 122. and the 121 before that
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Post by deerfold on Jul 20, 2022 0:42:33 GMT 1
I'm surprised the 195/6 hasn't had any changes. I heard in January it was up for tender in July. Just in case you hadn't noticed, there's a new timetable from 25th January, with an additional journey each hour on the 195 between Wakefield and New Crofton.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jul 30, 2022 10:38:42 GMT 1
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Post by Username on Jul 30, 2022 17:46:11 GMT 1
Seems like you should just rely on bustimes.org instead.
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Post by stevieinselby on Jul 30, 2022 18:23:14 GMT 1
Seems like you should just rely on bustimes.org instead. Bustimes is useful if you know what you're looking for, but it often suffers from both of these problems, a lot of its timetables are presented absolutely horrendously. In this case, it is exactly the same as the WYMetro pages, where the 509, 510, 511, 512 and 513 are all shown on separate pages (and actually are all listed twice, once as First Halifax, Calder Valley & Huddersfield and once as just First Halifax, but apparently with the same timetable on each incarnation).
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jul 30, 2022 18:28:36 GMT 1
And I’m talking about the general public, not enthusiasts that use BusTimes.org
The people who would have picked up a paper timetable are now directed to either the Metro or First website, and neither has a clear timetable. They are either going to be bamboozled or presented with a timetable that undersells the frequency, both likely to mean they may not travel at all
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Jul 30, 2022 19:19:34 GMT 1
Seems like you should just rely on bustimes.org instead. Bustimes is useful if you know what you're looking for, but it often suffers from both of these problems, a lot of its timetables are presented absolutely horrendously. In this case, it is exactly the same as the WYMetro pages, where the 509, 510, 511, 512 and 513 are all shown on separate pages (and actually are all listed twice, once as First Halifax, Calder Valley & Huddersfield and once as just First Halifax, but apparently with the same timetable on each incarnation). Bus Times takes its data from the Bus Open Data system (BODs), as far as I can tell, so what they are working off is data set up to work internal systems like tracking, scheduling or registrations not public data intended to be best for the general public to use - this is fine where the BODs data is used to run tracking (like BusTimes) or Journey Planners (which most people taking data from BODs are probably doing) but can create issues if this is used to display base timetables. The problem is too many companies are just using this base data to automatically create timetables which leaves you with messes like this (First probably take it direct from the scheduling system which has it combined but messy whilst Metro probably takes it from the export which often will produce separate files by route number so each route number is shown separately despite being on a combined corridor). It isn't that difficult to get a basic timetable suitable for a website designed - one of our drivers does ours in his spare time - this is different to designing paper timetables which requires a greater level of design ability.
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Post by Username on Jul 30, 2022 21:44:44 GMT 1
And I’m talking about the general public, not enthusiasts that use BusTimes.org The people who would have picked up a paper timetable are now directed to either the Metro or First website, and neither has a clear timetable. They are either going to be bamboozled or presented with a timetable that undersells the frequency, both likely to mean they may not travel at all I know we are going off topic now however, most people don't use First Bus App or Metro, I know a bunch of people who couldn't find the metro site for years and thought of the First Bus App as unreliable so they used to search for eg. 579 bus times and what would show up is bustimes.org and google maps on the top searches. I think people nowadays forget bustimes.org was not created for enthusiasts as it was just a bus timetable sight for a long time before buses started tracking.
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Post by moorside on Jul 30, 2022 23:56:24 GMT 1
Quite a few of the timetables are poorly laid out, though I think this is the worst. The 526 timetable lists Bradshaw Church twice, once for through journeys to Hungerhill or Shelf, and once for the short journeys that terminate there - although it's the same place. The new Mixenden routes seem to be a bit of a muddle - why not use 514 for journeys that operate via Wainstalls, it would have kept the same number for Wainstalls and also referenced the historic 14 Mixenden circular (out via Mount Tabor). A few years ago Metro only showed the anti-clockwise 512 timetable, not the clockwise one. When I pointed this out, I was told that the 512 and 510 were circular services and so both started and terminated in Halifax and so did not show outbound and inbound journeys. I had to point out that the 512 was a circular which operated in both directions: the lady at Metro then said she was referring my email to someone else who knew more about the Halifax area. I heard no more, but the clockwise timetable was added to the Metro site some time later. Which makes me ask, where a circular service operates in both directions, is it not better to allocate two different numbers? Or to give it a suffix like A for anti-clockwise or C for clockwise?
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Post by andyk4050 on Jul 31, 2022 0:09:26 GMT 1
Quite a few of the timetables are poorly laid out, though I think this is the worst. The 526 timetable lists Bradshaw Church twice, once for through journeys to Hungerhill or Shelf, and once for the short journeys that terminate there - although it's the same place. The new Mixenden routes seem to be a bit of a muddle - why not use 514 for journeys that operate via Wainstalls, it would have kept the same number for Wainstalls and also referenced the historic 14 Mixenden circular (out via Mount Tabor). A few years ago Metro only showed the anti-clockwise 512 timetable, not the clockwise one. When I pointed this out, I was told that the 512 and 510 were circular services and so both started and terminated in Halifax and so did not show outbound and inbound journeys. I had to point out that the 512 was a circular which operated in both directions: the lady at Metro then said she was referring my email to someone else who knew more about the Halifax area. I heard no more, but the clockwise timetable was added to the Metro site some time later. Which makes me ask, where a circular service operates in both directions, is it not better to allocate two different numbers? Or to give it a suffix like A for anti-clockwise or C for clockwise? The last bit, is what these new numbers are. 509 is the clockwise 510, and the 511 and 513 is the clockwise 512 with the 513 serving Wainstalls
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Post by leedsbusman on Jul 31, 2022 0:50:08 GMT 1
Which makes me ask, where a circular service operates in both directions, is it not better to allocate two different numbers? Or to give it a suffix like A for anti-clockwise or C for clockwise? Would that not cause more confusion? Rarely on do circulars do most customers have a choice of either circuit - for most one leg is most convenient so giving different numbers will be confusing. In this example most customers on the 509 will now need to catch a 510 on the way back. Hardly simple. It would have made more sense to have three numbers eg 510/511 to Mixenden via Wheatley and 512 via Pellon - buses could change number in Mixenden. Far clearer than what went before and what’s there now.
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Post by deerfold on Jul 31, 2022 11:51:04 GMT 1
Which makes me ask, where a circular service operates in both directions, is it not better to allocate two different numbers? Or to give it a suffix like A for anti-clockwise or C for clockwise? Would that not cause more confusion? Rarely on do circulars do most customers have a choice of either circuit - for most one leg is most convenient so giving different numbers will be confusing. In this example most customers on the 509 will now need to catch a 510 on the way back. Hardly simple. It would have made more sense to have three numbers eg 510/511 to Mixenden via Wheatley and 512 via Pellon - buses could change number in Mixenden. Far clearer than what went before and what’s there now. If the buses in both directions have the same number it's easy to catch the wrong one out of town and go the long way round. Mixenden used to have 3 different circulars under Metro and First, using 6 numbers.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jul 31, 2022 12:10:30 GMT 1
There would have been less confusion with the 512 as the Pellon Lane way went from the bus station, the main way went from King Edward Street. This changed when the bus station closed so you had two 512s both going from King Edward Street to Mixenden minutes apart in two different directions
I prefer different numbers in different directions like what has existed on the Golcar Circular for decades. If you change number midway through it causes confusion for passengers travelling across the mid point, especially these days with journey planners who can probably not cope with such a thing
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