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Post by adam on Oct 5, 2022 18:36:15 GMT 1
All I can say is oh dear. Gave it a try after work on the 1603 X99 to Wetherby which appeared 35 mins late and got later as 2 bus loads of people boarded at city centre stops. Then in East Linton another driver forced the bus to the side of the road and it knocked the wing mirror off so that's now out of service in Wetherby Bus Station. Now on the X98 back to Leeds which is 50 mins late
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Oct 5, 2022 19:19:57 GMT 1
Haven’t Transdev taken over the exact same timetable as what First run?
From what I read in this thread it seems people would have preferred WYCA to have cobbled together a two hourly off peak tendered service using a Solo rather than Transdev stepping in
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2022 20:29:02 GMT 1
Haven’t Transdev taken over the exact same timetable as what First run? From what I read in this thread it seems people would have preferred WYCA to have cobbled together a two hourly off peak tendered service using a Solo rather than Transdev stepping in Your correct about Transdev using the same timetable as First. I Don't think people would of been happier with a two hourly Solo it's just with the amount of PR spin Transdev have done the service they are providing doesn't really match up (all style no substance) I Think if they'd taken a similar approach they did to Team Pennine on takeover,basically saying things are not going to be perfect straight away but they'll work to improve,there wouldn't be as many complaints. If it is proving impossible to run an half hourly service using the 4 vehicles,if they are not able to gain a 5th vehicle i wouldn't be too surprised if they decided to run a Hourly service using a PVR of 3.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Oct 5, 2022 20:34:09 GMT 1
Haven’t Transdev taken over the exact same timetable as what First run? From what I read in this thread it seems people would have preferred WYCA to have cobbled together a two hourly off peak tendered service using a Solo rather than Transdev stepping in Your correct about Transdev using the same timetable as First. I Don't think people would of been happier with a two hourly Solo it's just with the amount of PR spin Transdev have done the service they are providing doesn't really match up (all style no substance) I Think if they'd taken a similar approach they did to Team Pennine on takeover,basically saying things are not going to be perfect straight away but they'll work to improve,there wouldn't be as many complaints. If it is proving impossible to run an half hourly service using the 4 vehicles,if they are not able to gain a 5th vehicle i wouldn't be too surprised if they decided to run a Hourly service using a PVR of 3. 2019 will come spare once CityZap ends, but of course it's having the drivers there to cover the extra duty.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Oct 5, 2022 21:06:36 GMT 1
Transdev have said they’ll change the timetable once they gain learnings which they clearly can’t do until they start running it
Presumably First ran all their journeys on time as we never heard of late running on the route until this week?
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Post by SCH117X on Oct 5, 2022 21:50:20 GMT 1
The last couple of weeks of Firsts data is still on Bustimes X98: bustimes.org/services/x98-leeds-deighton-bar/vehiclesX99: bustimes.org/services/x99-leeds-deighton-bar/vehiclesIf the data for today is right Gemini 2775 has been used in leiu of 2018, and 2017 seems have been fixed re wing mirror as in back in use this evening. Seems its timetabling woes initially began on the 0704 X99 from Wetherby losing time after Bardsey with a 14 minute late arrival at Leeds but then recovered a lot such that the 1104 from Wetherby was 4 late initially but 15 down at the Headrow around which its stayed with the 1504 from Wetherby leaving 16 down but becoming 37 down at the Headrow having lost 17 from Harehills and leading to the equaivalent late 1602 to Wetherby.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Oct 6, 2022 5:51:14 GMT 1
There have always been problems on the X98/9 around this time of year caused by traffic in the centre of Leeds, but I've not really seen that much traffic this year. Maybe the issues are with the volume of customer questions? If this continues then personally I'd change it's route and curtail all journeys at Vicar Lane starting them off at Eastgate. People may moan you can't get to the train station but it's about a 12 minute walk on average from Vicar Lane and there are other buses to the station from Vicar Lane like the 7 group.
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Post by adam on Oct 6, 2022 6:01:52 GMT 1
I think the answer is probably terminating it at the bus station (or general area) to give it a bit of recovery time instead of once it's late it just keeps going round and round potentially compounding the delay each time
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Post by SCH117X on Oct 6, 2022 18:49:22 GMT 1
They have tweeted this evening of delays due to congestion. Could be have been an accident as well - the 1303 to Wetherby for example lost 22 minutes at the A58 Coal road junction. Yesterday getting across Regent Street was taking ages - 1536 from Deighton Bar took 19 minutes from Stamford Street to Bryon Street bcoming that late Bustimes is listing it as the 1636! I presume if their was mega late running First may have substituted a vehicle.
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lucyp
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Post by lucyp on Oct 7, 2022 0:58:43 GMT 1
As to the comment that people would prefer a bi-hourly Solo - isn’t it the case that all the comments except mine are from armchair enthusiasts, or one-off, day out passengers, just like the ones who stare, open mouthed, at the £ multi million mansions on Linton Lane, because no one lives on the route and no one needs to use it except me?
Tip: there is no East Linton. You mean East Keswick.
The service was unreliable under First, but as others have said, there was no blowing of one’s own trumpet. And as I have said, they had solved the Roseville Road at peak times issue. As I understand it, Transdev are not omitting Roseville Road inbound to Leeds at peak times.
I used the 15:04 from Wetherby on Wednesday 5th. Davina from Keighley BC was driving. The bus was late into Wetherby, and so late leaving, that Davina was kind enough not to charge a fare. Davina knew the route well as had driven it for First in the past. Davina’s opinion was that the new drivers were driving slowly as they did not know the route. Unfortunately Davina was unable to make up much time, in spite of there being no traffic.
As I have said before, the problem is the too tight timetable. 4 minutes turnaround at each end. This is so that the X99 can be operated by just 2 buses, as they leave Leeds and Wetherby at basically the same time, and arrive at basically the same time, turn around and return. To build in some slack, then it would have to be operated by more than 2 buses, and the passenger numbers, except at peak times and even then, only on the close to Leeds part of the route, do not justify that cost.
People keep mentioning running it to Leeds Bus Station. No one is interested in that. The bus station is inconvenient in location. The railway station is more convenient but virtually no one even takes it that far. Almost everyone alights at the Headrow stop, which is more convenient for Leeds than the bus station. You can also walk to the bus station as quickly as it takes to drive that distance.
It needs to be a true X bus. Why does it pick up passengers at Oakwood Clock, inbound to Leeds? There are plenty of local services that serve the same route. Why does it stop at every stop between Leeds and Oakwood Clock? to pick up, when the stops are not far apart?
It must be the most bizarre service in Yorkshire. It serves Linton Lane, which has the most expensive house prices of any road in the whole of Yorkshire. It also serves Kentmere Gate, Seacroft, where the prices are about a tenth of the cost. If you look that up, there was a stabbing and a violent gang brawl within days of each other, in August. Residents felt in fear, in spite of extra police and extra police powers. Can you imagine anyone from Linton requiring a service to that Seacroft council estate or vice versa?
As I keep saying, the whole route needs a total rethink.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Oct 7, 2022 19:05:23 GMT 1
I had a ride out on the service today, and whilst the Leeds bound service suffered a bit of a delay, the Wetherby bound journey actually ended up running early and had to wait for time just by the new ring road
To improve reliability, turning left off Vicar Lane and terminating at Eastgate would presumably be the best option, as you still serve the same outbound stop and pretty much the same sort of inbound stop
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Oct 7, 2022 19:49:37 GMT 1
Most of the comments on this post seem to have little to do with the companies and more to do with a lack of bus priority. I think the better question to ask is would you rather be thirty minutes late on a bus from First or Transdev? I know which one I'd pick 😛
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kendall17
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Post by kendall17 on Oct 7, 2022 20:03:23 GMT 1
Can you imagine anyone from Linton requiring a service to that Seacroft council estate or vice versa? As I keep saying, the whole route needs a total rethink. Will anyone travel from Linto to Seacroft or vice versa? Highly unlikely. Is that the point of the service? Absolutely not. What are your suggestions for the route?
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Post by rwilkes on Oct 7, 2022 20:06:42 GMT 1
Yes bus priority is absolutely paramount without it whatever the bus companies do it can only get worse, congestion, pollution, reliability, patronage and higher fares we should all be lobbyong councillors regularly
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andy1
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Post by andy1 on Oct 7, 2022 21:17:49 GMT 1
Most of the comments on this post seem to have little to do with the companies and more to do with a lack of bus priority. I think the better question to ask is would you rather be thirty minutes late on a bus from First or Transdev? I know which one I'd pick 😛 Just cant help yourself can you ! I fully appreciate First are very far from perfect , Hell i have worked for them and predecessors for many years but your incessant First Bashing is becoming very tiresome !
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Post by SCH117X on Oct 7, 2022 21:24:19 GMT 1
Maybe they should have a spare vehicle at Wetherby so a fresh driver can start out at the right time.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Oct 7, 2022 21:35:44 GMT 1
I’m still finding it quite odd why this service is getting so much attention, as if it’s the only bus in West Yorkshire that ever runs late at peak times. I bet practically every First Leeds service also runs late at busy times.
Are we going to get daily updates until such time as they change the timetable?
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Post by WYBS on Oct 10, 2022 15:16:44 GMT 1
I'm currently on the X98 and we are picking passengers up at every stop down Roundhay Road and Harehills.
A: Isn't it supposed to be alighting only?
B: If not, what exactly makes it 'limited stop'?
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Post by deerfold on Oct 10, 2022 18:48:35 GMT 1
I'm currently on the X98 and we are picking passengers up at every stop down Roundhay Road and Harehills. A: Isn't it supposed to be alighting only? B: If not, what exactly makes it 'limited stop'? Who claimed it's limited stop? Neither Metro nor Transdev's timetable has any details of any stopping restrictions. It's not limited stop - the only thing think the X indicates is that it's a quicker route - between Wetherby and Leeds they're a lot faster than the 7.
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Post by andyk4050 on Oct 10, 2022 18:52:55 GMT 1
I'm currently on the X98 and we are picking passengers up at every stop down Roundhay Road and Harehills. A: Isn't it supposed to be alighting only? B: If not, what exactly makes it 'limited stop'? Who claimed it's limited stop? Neither Metro nor Transdev's timetable has any details of any stopping restrictions. It's not limited stop - the only thing think the X indicates is that it's a quicker route - between Wetherby and Leeds they're a lot faster than the 7. Think it's because when first ran it, last pick up stop towards Leeds was Oakwood Clock, and first drop off stop towards Wetherby was Oakwood Clock also
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Post by WYBS on Oct 10, 2022 18:53:34 GMT 1
I'm currently on the X98 and we are picking passengers up at every stop down Roundhay Road and Harehills. A: Isn't it supposed to be alighting only? B: If not, what exactly makes it 'limited stop'? Who claimed it's limited stop? Neither Metro nor Transdev's timetable has any details of any stopping restrictions. It's not limited stop - the only thing think the X indicates is that it's a quicker route - between Wetherby and Leeds they're a lot faster than the 7. Fair enough. I assume First ran it as a limited stop service with pick up and set down only restrictions as the X99/ X98 aren't/ listed on the stops coming down Roundhay Road, and I certainly don't recall drivers ever letting people board.
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Post by deerfold on Oct 10, 2022 18:55:38 GMT 1
Who claimed it's limited stop? Neither Metro nor Transdev's timetable has any details of any stopping restrictions. It's not limited stop - the only thing think the X indicates is that it's a quicker route - between Wetherby and Leeds they're a lot faster than the 7. Think it's because when first ran it, last pick up stop towards Leeds was Oakwood Clock, and first drop off stop towards Wetherby was Oakwood Clock also I think that restriction disappeared years ago.
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Post by asw22 on Oct 11, 2022 0:13:48 GMT 1
Between 2014 and 2019 Oakwood Clock was the last pickup point towards Leeds and first drop off point from Leeds (ie the X). I don't know if this is still the case though.
The route experiences significant traffic at peak times in particular coming off Roseville Road into a very busy Regent Street (and the Byron Street lights sometimes seem to get stuck on red), the junction at Oakwood Clock and sometimes at Seacroft ring road. Also, if there is an accident on the A58 (or an accident on the A1 causes a A58 diversion), then that would cause significant disruption. Between 2014 and 2018, I experienced several occasions of consecutive cancellations and no-shows between 6 and 8 pm from Scarcroft into Leeds. Not to mention the times when Roundhay had its fireworks displays. Walking or semi-running down the A58 in the dark to find an alternative 7S (Shadwell), 49 (Monkswood) or 7 (Coal Road) showed me that although the Scarcroft to Seacroft section can feel slow sometimes, it is actually quite a distance.
This was all noticeable as after 8pm the journey from Scarcroft into Leeds city centre could often take just over 15 minutes (or half the time).
In terms of passengers, until Npower (Yorkshire Electric) closed its Scarcroft site in 2018, the 0725 and 0805 journeys from Leeds would often be close to full (with YE, other commuters and Wetherby High school pupils) which probably helped it financially. I sometimes caught the 0805 journey from Leeds to Seacroft in 2019 / early 2020 and the difference was noticeable, so this combined with covid may be a reason why YR / First have come off the route after 32 years.
Others have mentioned using Easterly Road and the bus station. Maybe the X99 could use Easterly Road (when the X98 is running so that X98 serves Oakwood Clock) to compensate for its villages route. At peak times both could follow the 12/13/13A route from Harehills into Leeds - Roseville Road has close alternative services 12/13/13A/42 a short distance away - I think that this is the only route that linked the former West Yorkshire Road Car depot on Roseville Road with the former WY bus station in Vicar Lane and that part has remained the same since both closed in 1990.
It's a shame that New Briggate has closed, because otherwise the journeys could terminate on the Headrow (which is typically busier than the train station stop). Or they could terminate at Vicar Lane (outside the old red bus station) inbound and then outbound turn left into Eastgate and Regent Street to omit the city centre loop. A few minutes saved per journey could help with recovery time.
I hope that Transdev can resolve any initial issues and develop this route - the 7 seems to be fairly well used, albeit with single deckers and more intermediate rather than end to end journeys.
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Post by lucyp on Oct 11, 2022 0:30:38 GMT 1
The restriction did not disappear years ago. It was still in place with First until the transfer to Transdev, or should I say Coastliner, which is what the timetable at the stops says. Coastliner? It's 50 miles as the crow flies from Wetherby to the coast and 60 miles from Leeds! The only water that it crosses is the River Wharfe between Collingham and Linton!
If Transdev have removed the limited stop service, then perhaps that is one of the reasons why the service is so late, as the timetable is the same as First's.
It also used to say "Limited Stop" on the destination display. Hence it being an X. Only limited stop buses had an X see also the X6.
andyk4050 and WYBS's comments are correct.
The reasoning was that there were plenty of other buses between Leeds and Oakwood Clock. First ran them all, so didn't lose any revenue. No doubt Transdev want those passengers too, to take revenue from First at the expense of timekeeping.
The service is now appalling and cannot be relied upon. It wasn't great under First, but it is far worse now. For bus enthusiasts, it might be all about the type of bus, (although they were using an old Harrogate branded banger last Saturday on the route) and the marketing hype, but when you have to use it, it is all about the timekeeping. Arranging to meet people at a certain time, or missing the booked train to London becomes tiresome when the service is persistently and seriously late. If it was a train, then they would make nothing because of the "Delay Repay" scheme.
I used it from Roseville Road towards Wetherby last Saturday. I wanted to catch the 14:11 X99. At 14:07, I could still see the X99 at the roundabout at the bottom of Roseville Road on it's way into Leeds. At 14:12, an X98 that was 31 minutes late arrived.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Oct 11, 2022 5:49:22 GMT 1
The issue with limited stop conditions not being observed could simply be that classic issue that the British suffer from called 'lack of communication' as in the conditions have not been communicated to drivers by Transdev trainers, not communicated to Transdev trainers by management, or to Transdev management by First/WYCA or whoever was responsible for passing the info on. Basically it's yet another unnecessary mistake costing people time and in many cases money, e.g. lost wages!
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