kendall17
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Justice for the 96!
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Post by kendall17 on Sept 27, 2022 18:45:24 GMT 1
Is New Briggate open to traffic again?
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 27, 2022 18:54:47 GMT 1
Is New Briggate open to traffic again? No, and they wouldn’t be able to use it inbound even when it was |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2022 19:02:55 GMT 1
Is New Briggate open to traffic again? Its open to deliveries at certain times,but even then its going in the opposite direction to whats shown on the Transdev map (Transdev showing buses using it going towards the city,when New Briggate has always been for traffic leaving) I Assume it should be Vicar Lane on the map,as it has 'Headrow F' stop on the junction. |
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kendall17
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Justice for the 96!
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Post by kendall17 on Sept 27, 2022 19:25:51 GMT 1
Didn't think so. Great start with the paper timetable 👍
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lucyp
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Post by lucyp on Sept 28, 2022 21:02:01 GMT 1
The paper timetable is a disaster. It's fit only for the bin. It shows that they don't understand the route at all. It doesn't differentiate between the X98 and the X99. It simply shows them all in the same timetable, and it doesn't even show which is which. You have to know that timetable, which fortunately I do, as it is the same as First's, to know.
The X98 does not serve Linton, East Keswick or the part of Bardsey next to East Keswick, so if you live in one of those villages, the X98 is no use, unless you are prepared to walk.
The X99 takes far longer than the X98, so if you are in Wetherby, then you are unlikely to use the slower X99, when you can use the quicker X98.
I am sure that Bus Times will continue to separate the two services as they do now and there will be a usable timetable.
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Post by deerfold on Sept 28, 2022 22:04:09 GMT 1
The paper timetable is a disaster. It's fit only for the bin. It shows that they don't understand the route at all. It doesn't differentiate between the X98 and the X99. It simply shows them all in the same timetable, and it doesn't even show which is which. You have to know that timetable, which fortunately I do, as it is the same as First's, to know. The X98 does not serve Linton, East Keswick or the part of Bardsey next to East Keswick, so if you live in one of those villages, the X98 is no use, unless you are prepared to walk. The X99 takes far longer than the X98, so if you are in Wetherby, then you are unlikely to use the slower X99, when you can use the quicker X98. I am sure that Bus Times will continue to separate the two services as they do now and there will be a usable timetable. Is it not just a printed version of the online timetable? images.transdevbus.co.uk/downloads/X98%20X99%20Web%20TT%202-Oct-2022_0.pdfThat seems quite clear about which bus serves where. The X98 is faster (by 10 minutes), but not so fast you'd let an X99 go. |
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Sept 29, 2022 19:05:34 GMT 1
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Post by SCH117X on Sept 29, 2022 21:24:22 GMT 1
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lucyp
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Post by lucyp on Sept 30, 2022 0:09:08 GMT 1
They have been route learning with old an school bus today. There don't seem to have been many route learning trips.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Oct 2, 2022 11:42:57 GMT 1
2017 and 2018 are the first buses to run the services. Interestingly a Team Pennine driver on one and a Keighley driver on the other.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Oct 2, 2022 14:27:02 GMT 1
Not off to a great start today, with both buses currently running around 30 minutes late. Meanwhile an A1 is cancelled whilst a Flyer driver is on an X99.
Edit: hang on, make that 3 Flyer drivers.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Oct 2, 2022 20:59:07 GMT 1
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Oct 2, 2022 21:15:06 GMT 1
Surprisingly Scott was the only photographer I saw out and about today. (Excluding those taking photos with their phones). I had a ride on both vehicles and it was most pleasant. The Skyclass MMCs do seem to fit in with the villages of East Keswick, Linton and so on. Hopefully it will encourage more car users from those affluent areas to use the bus, as has been seen with the 36. Driving through Harehills was risky, as usual, and it wouldn't surprise me if the vehicles received bumps and scratches from the hapless idiots pulling out without looking and doing u-turns and lane changes seemingly at random. As I said in the previous post; driving was covered by colleagues from a few different depots, including the great Keith and Simon from Harrogate depot. One driver was quite miserable but the rest were all smiles. It will be interesting to see if Transdev look at the (very) late running on a Sunday due to the route covering East Keswick & Deighton Bar and no chance to claw any time back. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2022 21:42:15 GMT 1
Surprisingly Scott was the only photographer I saw out and about today. (Excluding those taking photos with their phones). I had a ride on both vehicles and it was most pleasant. The Skyclass MMCs do seem to fit in with the villages of East Keswick, Linton and so on. Hopefully it will encourage more car users from those affluent areas to use the bus, as has been seen with the 36. Driving through Harehills was risky, as usual, and it wouldn't surprise me if the vehicles received bumps and scratches from the hapless idiots pulling out without looking and doing u-turns and lane changes seemingly at random. As I said in the previous post; driving was covered by colleagues from a few different depots, including the great Keith and Simon from Harrogate depot. One driver was quite miserable but the rest were all smiles. It will be interesting to see if Transdev look at the (very) late running on a Sunday due to the route covering East Keswick & Deighton Bar and no chance to claw any time back. Did First have issues about late running on a Sunday,as i thought Transdev was using the same timetable or did First interwork it with another route to give it more slack time? I Know what you mean about driving through Harehills,as it took me a few weeks to get used to the to 'skill set' shown around there,although the drivers from Flyer & Keighley at least should be used to it after driving into Bradford. |
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Oct 2, 2022 21:49:59 GMT 1
Surprisingly Scott was the only photographer I saw out and about today. (Excluding those taking photos with their phones). I had a ride on both vehicles and it was most pleasant. The Skyclass MMCs do seem to fit in with the villages of East Keswick, Linton and so on. Hopefully it will encourage more car users from those affluent areas to use the bus, as has been seen with the 36. Driving through Harehills was risky, as usual, and it wouldn't surprise me if the vehicles received bumps and scratches from the hapless idiots pulling out without looking and doing u-turns and lane changes seemingly at random. As I said in the previous post; driving was covered by colleagues from a few different depots, including the great Keith and Simon from Harrogate depot. One driver was quite miserable but the rest were all smiles. It will be interesting to see if Transdev look at the (very) late running on a Sunday due to the route covering East Keswick & Deighton Bar and no chance to claw any time back. Did First have issues about late running on a Sunday,as i thought Transdev was using the same timetable or did First interwork it with another route to give it more slack time? I Know what you mean about driving through Harehills,as it took me a few weeks to get used to the to 'skill set' shown around there,although the drivers from Flyer & Keighley at least should be used to it after driving into Bradford. I don't know if First had issues with late running on Sundays as I have rarely used the route on that day, though I'm pretty sure they ran as stand alone boards. I'm not sure what the journeys were running like by early evening, but both buses were running 30 minutes late at around 2pm. Maybe it was just due to new drivers taking it cautiously and an increased number of enthusiasts on board, though most of the passengers I encountered were not bus nuts. |
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lucyp
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Post by lucyp on Oct 3, 2022 13:17:28 GMT 1
More scratches will be obtained from Linton especially and East Keswick as they are very narrow, with lots of overhanging trees too. They are using the ex-Zap buses today, and they are quieter as they go past than the Streetdecks were. The last one was on time.
It's going to be a tough ask to get people from Linton to leave their £ multi million houses, walk down their long drives past their exotic car collection and get on a bus that is so slow.
Rarely do the buses stop to pick up or drop off anyone in Linton. Maybe not even every week!
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Oct 3, 2022 13:35:04 GMT 1
More scratches will be obtained from Linton especially and East Keswick as they are very narrow, with lots of overhanging trees too. They are using the ex-Zap buses today, and they are quieter as they go past than the Streetdecks were. The last one was on time. It's going to be a tough ask to get people from Linton to leave their £ multi million houses, walk down their long drives past their exotic car collection and get on a bus that is so slow. Rarely do the buses stop to pick up or drop off anyone in Linton. Maybe not even every week! Is this not a reputation gained through years of cattle trucks running the route? Plenty of people walk past their fancy cars along their long driveway to use the 36 into Leeds from Harrogate and surrounding areas. Can this mentality not be changed, surely even if it's just for leisure and social activities? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2022 14:35:09 GMT 1
More scratches will be obtained from Linton especially and East Keswick as they are very narrow, with lots of overhanging trees too. They are using the ex-Zap buses today, and they are quieter as they go past than the Streetdecks were. The last one was on time. It's going to be a tough ask to get people from Linton to leave their £ multi million houses, walk down their long drives past their exotic car collection and get on a bus that is so slow. Rarely do the buses stop to pick up or drop off anyone in Linton. Maybe not even every week! Is this not a reputation gained through years of cattle trucks running the route? Plenty of people walk past their fancy cars along their long driveway to use the 36 into Leeds from Harrogate and surrounding areas. Can this mentality not be changed, surely even if it's just for leisure and social activities? Not sure they can be compared to the 36,ditching the car for an Every 10-20 Mins,that has late night weekend journeys (if/when they have enough drivers to cover it all) & that goes basically the same route as you would in a car is different to an Every 30-60 Mins service that takes various de-tours off the main route when heading towards the City Centre. Its almost an X41/X43 Situation into Manchester - both used high spec double deckers but the X41 was always the lesser service,although hopefully the X98/9 don't face a similar future to the X41 but as i'm guessing they currently don't cover costs (I Assume thats why First binned them,unless it was due to driver shortages) who knows what could happen in future. I'm guessing when the new Park & Ride opens up at Whinmoor the 'posher' people will probably use that,being less than 20 minutes drive away from the likes of Linton & have a higher frequency service. |
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lucyp
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Post by lucyp on Oct 3, 2022 18:43:37 GMT 1
Since no one has actually reviewed the service, then I will. I used the 17:02 from Leeds this evening. It arrived in Leeds 5 minutes late and arrived at the destination 7 minutes late.
The driver was pleasant, and understood the destination first time. That was rarely the case under First. The bus (2018) has suffered plenty of A74 rash on the front left from the high speed running. That is now a thing of the past.
There were two baskets next to the bin just behind the doors, one had some fruit left, the other one "wrapped breakfast bar". I assume that Transdev provided complimentary breakfast this morning. They did that when the 36 was re-launched.
I sat upstairs on the left in a double seat that had a wooden tray table, with two metal cup-holders. Sadly, someone had left their banana skin in one of them. On the table opposite with 4 seats around it, the one of the cup-holders was also full of rubbish and there was rubbish left on the table. There was also a McDonalds chip on the floor. As First provided neither tables nor food, this was not an issue.
There seem to be more double seats upstairs than the 36. The seats on the right have induction charging in the seat backs. The ones on the left do not appear to have them, but have USB sockets.
The upstairs seats are inferior to both the 36 and First's Street-deck. The leg-room is improved, but they are not full leather, there are no arm-rests and I found the more reclined angle uncomfortable. They are fixed seats. There are also no arm-rests. The seats are also not very high. I am not tall, but most of my head was above the top of the seat-back. Because they are so short, you can see more of other people than the 36 or the First Street-deck.
The ventilation is inferior also. There are no vents in the ceiling, only at the front at the bottom of the windscreen. The outside temperature was only 15/16 and the bus was cold inside.
The worst feature was the bell push. The sound is far too faint. People were repeatedly pressing it, then moving and trying another, then pressing again when they got downstairs. Yes it says "Bus Stopping" in small print at the bottom of the next stop display, but people did not notice that.
The next stop display differs from the 36, the 7 and First's display. The voice used is the same as the 7, although does not sound as "camp" as the 7! It doesn't implore you to keep the windows open or a mask either. I didn't take the bus from the first to the last stop, so I don't know what they are calling the service. Coastliner? Harrogate? Transdev? The announcements only got stuck once, although there are mis-pronunciations, as with First, albeit different ones! It also says more than First. Whether that is useful is debatable. Many of them were superfluous.
The ride quality was better. The engine louder from inside. There is no stop-start, and the acceleration is no better than a Street-deck.
The driver knew the route and the stops, and the trees hit the unprotected bus, and it was a struggle to get the bus and a car past each other just after Linton Bridge.
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Post by SCH117X on Oct 3, 2022 21:55:25 GMT 1
Maybe it was just due to new drivers taking it cautiously and an increased number of enthusiasts on board, though most of the passengers I encountered were not bus nuts. Looking at Bustimes data for yesterday it seems time was primarilly lost at Wetherby, insufficient loading time ? / overlong driver change ?, and in Leeds city centre where North Street to the Headrow took far longer than scheduled. There is also a Youtube video of a ride on one that took 1 min 50 for the right turn off Regent Street and that looks like it went though on amber so if had a more cautious driver that would presumably have been in the ordrr of 4 minutes Would not be surprised if its diverted to the bus station instead. |
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Oct 3, 2022 23:15:59 GMT 1
Maybe it was just due to new drivers taking it cautiously and an increased number of enthusiasts on board, though most of the passengers I encountered were not bus nuts. Looking at Bustimes data for yesterday it seems time was primarilly lost at Wetherby, insufficient loading time ? / overlong driver change ?, and in Leeds city centre where North Street to the Headrow took far longer than scheduled. There is also a Youtube video of a ride on one that took 1 min 50 for the right turn off Regent Street and that looks like it went though on amber so if had a more cautious driver that would presumably have been in the ordrr of 4 minutes Would not be surprised if its diverted to the bus station instead. I was originally thinking that they might consider changing it to run to the bus station to fit in with the rest of their services, though it is more useful for customers that it runs all the way round town. Although if you do this you're still left with Regent Street, and as I'm sure anyone in Leeds will be aware it is a total nightmare with traffic, unless First and Transdev can convince WYCA to put some bus priority in there for the X99/98 and 42 to Eastgate roundabout. As you mentioned, turning off of Regent Street to go up by Christopher Pratts to North Street can take a lifetime if you don't catch the lights on green. The traffic lights on the junction of Vicar Lane & The Headrow let 2 buses through at a time if the drivers are on the ball. |
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Post by SCH117X on Oct 4, 2022 12:35:00 GMT 1
The alternate would be not to use the bottom of Roundhay Road - follow the A58 to Sheepscar interchange and then down North Street like the 36.
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lucyp
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Post by lucyp on Oct 4, 2022 16:06:35 GMT 1
Are Transdev not using the same route as First did? First solved the roundabout at the bottom of Roseville Road problem, a long time ago. At all times going towards Wetherby, the service used the full length of Roseville Road, as it was the only service to do so. Off-peak, towards Leeds, it used the same route.
During peak hours towards Leeds, it did not use Roseville Road at all, and continued on Roundhay Road to Sheepscar, and then the whole length of North Street. The problem was that the traffic backed up at the roundabout at the bottom of Roseville Road. The lights would go to green, but the bus could not move forward as it was blocked. The lights would go to red, then the traffic would clear, but the lights would go to green for the traffic on the right and that would block it up again, so that when the lights went green for the bus, it still could not move. The whole process kept repeating.
Once past the roundabout, there is no problem, because most of the traffic is going straight ahead, into Leeds in the two left-hand lanes. There is a dedicated lane from the roundabout, with a right turn arrow, to turn right by Pratts. The problem was always getting across the roundabout at peak times. There was never a problem at off-peak times.
Before First brought in the change, some of the more intelligent drivers would see the queue and divert the bus along one off the side streets running between Roseville Road and Roundhay Road and avoid the problem. Perhaps not strictly allowed, but very welcome.
If Transdev are not diverting from Roseville Road during peak times, then they will be back to the bad old days that First solved.
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Post by stephen01 on Oct 4, 2022 17:16:21 GMT 1
Are Transdev not using the same route as First did? First solved the roundabout at the bottom of Roseville Road problem, a long time ago. At all times going towards Wetherby, the service used the full length of Roseville Road, as it was the only service to do so. Off-peak, towards Leeds, it used the same route. During peak hours towards Leeds, it did not use Roseville Road at all, and continued on Roundhay Road to Sheepscar, and then the whole length of North Street. The problem was that the traffic backed up at the roundabout at the bottom of Roseville Road. The lights would go to green, but the bus could not move forward as it was blocked. The lights would go to red, then the traffic would clear, but the lights would go to green for the traffic on the right and that would block it up again, so that when the lights went green for the bus, it still could not move. The whole process kept repeating. Once past the roundabout, there is no problem, because most of the traffic is going straight ahead, into Leeds in the two left-hand lanes. There is a dedicated lane from the roundabout, with a right turn arrow, to turn right by Pratts. The problem was always getting across the roundabout at peak times. There was never a problem at off-peak times. Before First brought in the change, some of the more intelligent drivers would see the queue and divert the bus along one off the side streets running between Roseville Road and Roundhay Road and avoid the problem. Perhaps not strictly allowed, but very welcome. If Transdev are not diverting from Roseville Road during peak times, then they will be back to the bad old days that First solved. Only way Transdev could master the delays is if the drivers are still using the 'zap-nav' which was the sat-nav system CityZap used in the first place when first introduced and before it went via Amazon. |
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lucyp
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Post by lucyp on Oct 4, 2022 18:16:48 GMT 1
They don't need a sat-nav. The delays are always in the same spot, as I said above, and that is how First sorted it out. It's a totally different kind of service to the Zap one. It goes from a big city to a small town, from urban to country, via inner city areas. It's a fixed route with lots of bus-stops.
It is a limited stop from Leeds to Oakwood Clock in that it stops everywhere to pick up, but not to set down. After that it is an all stops for both. From Oakwood Clock to Leeds it only stops to set down.
The delays are peak-time only basically, assuming that there are no road-works and the driver drives at a reasonable speed and people board and alight with reasonable speed.
The delays are Regent Street; Roundhay Road from the Roseville Road, to the Fforde Green junction; the lights at Oakwood Clock; sometimes getting across the ring road roundabout.
The X99 service is slow as it negotiates the narrow roads of Bardsey, East Keswick, Collingham and Linton. It can take time to join the main road after leaving East Keswick as it is a 50 mph road and a bus accelerates like a snail, especially whilst turning right, so it cannot just "nip out". It has to wait for a sufficient gap in the traffic.
The 98 and 99 are the only buses to serve Roseville Road and Roundhay Road after Oakwood Clock, so if you divert via Chapeltown Road, or Scott Hall Road, or later via Easterly Road, then you are missing out a large part of the route, with no other services, or you are leaving passengers at stops that expected to catch the 98/9. If you follow Chapleltown Road or Scott Hall Road, you are also then on the wrong roads for Wetherby unless you then miss out yet more of the published route.
What also needs to happen is for there to be a longer turn round time in Leeds and Wetherby, as there used to be, to allow time to be caught up, so that the return service is not impacted.
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