WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Sept 21, 2022 15:50:10 GMT 1
There is definitely a market for a direct, rapid bus service from Wetherby to Leeds. Is there a route for it? A58 isn't exactly the fastest road out there & can get snarled up as you head towards Leeds. The quickest route according to Google maps is A1(M) then Pontefract Lane, but then you are entirely relying on a substantial volume of passengers travelling from (just) Leeds Bus Station to (just) Wetherby centre. A substantial volume that simply doesn't exist. If they can't make CityZap work then how a direct bus to Wetherby would work is beyond me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2022 16:04:25 GMT 1
Why is it "nice"? First are more reliable than Transdev at the moment. There are far more cancellations with Transdev on the 7 than there are with First on the X98/99. Transdev will also need to put some decent buses on the X98/99, as First have new Streetdecks, with leather seats. Transdev have old, worn-out buses on the 7. The X98 and especially the 99 is a terrible service which is why it is so underused. It serves the most affluent area in the whole of the Leeds City Council area - Linton, and it takes nearly an hour to complete the 11 mile journey. The current timetable allows a 5 or 6 minute turnaround in Leeds and Wetherby, so at peak hours, the service is frequently late. Off-peak, the bus has to wait at stops so as not to leave early, then meets congestion in Leeds and arrives late. No one is ever going to be tempted to leave their Ferraris and Rolls-Royces in their multi-million £ houses, on Linton Lane, and use the bus, even though it goes right past them. The fare has been reduced to £2 single recently, which makes it half the cost of travelling into Harrogate, but the service is far too slow. The travelling distance is hardly any more than the distance to Harrogate, yet the journey takes at least twice as long. The 7 is slower still to Leeds as that is even more indirect. The taxi provision in Wetherby is woeful. The railway closed with Dr. B. Before Connexions (who, amazingly, are now also more reliable than Transdev!) turned up, the service to Harrogate used to be indirect with Transdev. There is definitely a market for a direct, rapid bus service from Wetherby to Leeds. Streetdecks with *e-leather seats that bark out the next stop via some automated voice and are shown on a screen that isn't calibrated properly. Sounds like my dream way of travelling! I'd take the interior of a Transdev Eclipse any day of the week. The ex CityZap/ Witchways that will (presumably) be going on there have nicer interiors than anything within the FirstBus UK fleet. Don't the Eclipses also have NSA,so basically the only difference is E-Leather v Fabric seating - either way good luck to the users of X98/9 going by how long it took Transdev to notice they might need some drivers for the routes. Not sure you can see the ADLs have nicer interiors than all of First UK,seen as ADLs used on the likes of Excel or Stansted Airport routes in the South,or the Glasgow Airport route all have very similar interiors. I Don't think a 'Rapid' bus between Wetherby & Leeds would do much,I Think something on rails would do a better job (bit more complicated seen as they've just built part of the new ELOR on some of the old railway route)
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Sept 21, 2022 16:31:27 GMT 1
Streetdecks with *e-leather seats that bark out the next stop via some automated voice and are shown on a screen that isn't calibrated properly. Sounds like my dream way of travelling! I'd take the interior of a Transdev Eclipse any day of the week. The ex CityZap/ Witchways that will (presumably) be going on there have nicer interiors than anything within the FirstBus UK fleet. Don't the Eclipses also have NSA,so basically the only difference is E-Leather v Fabric seating - either way good luck to the users of X98/9 going by how long it took Transdev to notice they might need some drivers for the routes. Not sure you can see the ADLs have nicer interiors than all of First UK,seen as ADLs used on the likes of Excel or Stansted Airport routes in the South,or the Glasgow Airport route all have very similar interiors. I Don't think a 'Rapid' bus between Wetherby & Leeds would do much,I Think something on rails would do a better job (bit more complicated seen as they've just built part of the new ELOR on some of the old railway route) Cheap automated voice VS a real person. The Glasgow airport ADL E400 Cities have nice(ish) interiors, but I wouldn't say they can compete with Transdev's 'SkyClass'. The buses I believe they replaced (E200s) had nicer seats.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2022 16:50:02 GMT 1
Don't the Eclipses also have NSA,so basically the only difference is E-Leather v Fabric seating - either way good luck to the users of X98/9 going by how long it took Transdev to notice they might need some drivers for the routes. Not sure you can see the ADLs have nicer interiors than all of First UK,seen as ADLs used on the likes of Excel or Stansted Airport routes in the South,or the Glasgow Airport route all have very similar interiors. I Don't think a 'Rapid' bus between Wetherby & Leeds would do much,I Think something on rails would do a better job (bit more complicated seen as they've just built part of the new ELOR on some of the old railway route) Cheap automated voice VS a real person. The Glasgow airport ADL E400 Cities have nice(ish) interiors, but I wouldn't say they can compete with Transdev's 'SkyClass'. The buses I believe they replaced (E200s) had nicer seats. Does it being an automated voice really matter? compare it to car travelling,do many people pick their satnav based on the voice it uses? I Accept your point over the First Glasgow examples,but ones used in the south i also mentioned IMO are to a very similar spec,if not better in some aspects
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kendall17
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Post by kendall17 on Sept 21, 2022 18:23:18 GMT 1
The next stop announcements are there primarily to serve those with visual impairments and I'm sure will be very happy any voice at all is available.
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lucyp
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Post by lucyp on Sept 21, 2022 18:45:27 GMT 1
Route wise, the A58 isn't the problem, especially now the ELOR is open. It's reduced the A58 traffic. The problem is the "all round the houses" route. There is sometimes traffic at Oakwood Clock, and Harehills, by the old Fforde Green pub. At peak times the route uses all of North Street, so as to avoid the snarled up roundabout at the bottom of Roseville Road. It takes about 20 minutes from Oakwood Clock to The Headrow. It is pointless taking it all the way to the station as it is quicker to walk. The problem is the Wetherby to Oakwood Clock section, via Linton, Harewood Road, East Keswick, double back to Bardsey, then join the A58. That is where all the time is lost. The X98 avoids that, but that could be speeded up, by cutting out more of the intermediate stops.
And the automated stop announcements are no worse and no less accurate that Transdev's, which "get stuck" just the same. There is nothing wrong with the voice used either. First don't drone on about keeping the windows open, or wearing a mask, even though there is no government requirement to wear one, and no one ever does. First also don't constantly boast about how amazing they are. They are not, but they don't cancel as many services as Transdev, who only amaze people by the number of cancelled services per day.
There is also nothing wrong with the First Streetdeck interiors. The buses are new. They are clean. The seats are leather. No one is interested in fairy lights under the seats, glass panels in the roof, or a shelf of dog-eared books.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Sept 21, 2022 19:30:08 GMT 1
Route wise, the A58 isn't the problem, especially now the ELOR is open. It's reduced the A58 traffic. The problem is the "all round the houses" route. There is sometimes traffic at Oakwood Clock, and Harehills, by the old Fforde Green pub. At peak times the route uses all of North Street, so as to avoid the snarled up roundabout at the bottom of Roseville Road. It takes about 20 minutes from Oakwood Clock to The Headrow. It is pointless taking it all the way to the station as it is quicker to walk. The problem is the Wetherby to Oakwood Clock section, via Linton, Harewood Road, East Keswick, double back to Bardsey, then join the A58. That is where all the time is lost. The X98 avoids that, but that could be speeded up, by cutting out more of the intermediate stops. And the automated stop announcements are no worse and no less accurate that Transdev's, which "get stuck" just the same. There is nothing wrong with the voice used either. First don't drone on about keeping the windows open, or wearing a mask, even though there is no government requirement to wear one, and no one ever does. First also don't constantly boast about how amazing they are. They are not, but they don't cancel as many services as Transdev, who only amaze people by the number of cancelled services per day. There is also nothing wrong with the First Streetdeck interiors. The buses are new. They are clean. The seats are leather. No one is interested in fairy lights under the seats, glass panels in the roof, or a shelf of dog-eared books. *e-leather. I'm quite interested in the mod cons that Transdev offer. I feel proud to use the bus. I don't feel so proud when riding a First cattle truck. I also like the interaction with drivers who are (on the whole) pretty friendly and helpful. But I agree, there's nothing wrong with First's next stop announcements, especially the ones where the screen and audio don't match up and the automated voice does a Stuttering John impression. It would be interesting to put First spec Streetdecks on the 36 and see if custom increases or massively decreases. Actually give them buses full of Urban-90s. They should be grateful that they have a bus!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2022 20:07:58 GMT 1
Route wise, the A58 isn't the problem, especially now the ELOR is open. It's reduced the A58 traffic. The problem is the "all round the houses" route. There is sometimes traffic at Oakwood Clock, and Harehills, by the old Fforde Green pub. At peak times the route uses all of North Street, so as to avoid the snarled up roundabout at the bottom of Roseville Road. It takes about 20 minutes from Oakwood Clock to The Headrow. It is pointless taking it all the way to the station as it is quicker to walk. The problem is the Wetherby to Oakwood Clock section, via Linton, Harewood Road, East Keswick, double back to Bardsey, then join the A58. That is where all the time is lost. The X98 avoids that, but that could be speeded up, by cutting out more of the intermediate stops. And the automated stop announcements are no worse and no less accurate that Transdev's, which "get stuck" just the same. There is nothing wrong with the voice used either. First don't drone on about keeping the windows open, or wearing a mask, even though there is no government requirement to wear one, and no one ever does. First also don't constantly boast about how amazing they are. They are not, but they don't cancel as many services as Transdev, who only amaze people by the number of cancelled services per day. There is also nothing wrong with the First Streetdeck interiors. The buses are new. They are clean. The seats are leather. No one is interested in fairy lights under the seats, glass panels in the roof, or a shelf of dog-eared books. *e-leather. I'm quite interested in the mod cons that Transdev offer. I feel proud to use the bus. I don't feel so proud when riding a First cattle truck. I also like the interaction with drivers who are (on the whole) pretty friendly and helpful. But I agree, there's nothing wrong with First's next stop announcements, especially the ones where the screen and audio don't match up and the automated voice does a Stuttering John impression. It would be interesting to put First spec Streetdecks on the 36 and see if custom increases or massively decreases. Actually give them buses full of Urban-90s. They should be grateful that they have a bus! But surely your only interested in the 'mod cons' because your an enthusiast (as like the rest of us)? Are you expecting day to day passengers to care about stuff like that as much? I Don't think anyone has said Firsts NSAs work all the time,but neither do Transdevs,The voice doesn't matter if its the software that glitches. Speaking as someone who's switched from bus to car,alot of the reasons down to Transdev,I Don't think i've ever felt either proud or ashamed to use either the bus,train or car - i just make the choice of what transport is available. I'm not sure what your point is over different specs on the 36 is? Try having a look at Europe,most buses are to a much lower spec yet they have passenger use England could only dream about because its cheap,reliable & Integrated with decent priority measures. I Think if that was the reality here you would see numbers increase even if you used Firsts old ALXs (ignoring the fact if England was like the rest of Europe,Route 36 wouldn't exist in its current form anyway) Downstairs theres not that much difference between the 36 buses & Firsts Streetdecks anyway,with Highbacked Seating,NSAs & USBs (The 16 Plate Streetdecks even use the same V3 Seating)
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Sept 23, 2022 20:14:12 GMT 1
*e-leather. I'm quite interested in the mod cons that Transdev offer. I feel proud to use the bus. I don't feel so proud when riding a First cattle truck. I also like the interaction with drivers who are (on the whole) pretty friendly and helpful. But I agree, there's nothing wrong with First's next stop announcements, especially the ones where the screen and audio don't match up and the automated voice does a Stuttering John impression. It would be interesting to put First spec Streetdecks on the 36 and see if custom increases or massively decreases. Actually give them buses full of Urban-90s. They should be grateful that they have a bus! But surely your only interested in the 'mod cons' because your an enthusiast (as like the rest of us)? Are you expecting day to day passengers to care about stuff like that as much? I Don't think anyone has said Firsts NSAs work all the time,but neither do Transdevs,The voice doesn't matter if its the software that glitches. Speaking as someone who's switched from bus to car,alot of the reasons down to Transdev,I Don't think i've ever felt either proud or ashamed to use either the bus,train or car - i just make the choice of what transport is available. I'm not sure what your point is over different specs on the 36 is? Try having a look at Europe,most buses are to a much lower spec yet they have passenger use England could only dream about because its cheap,reliable & Integrated with decent priority measures. I Think if that was the reality here you would see numbers increase even if you used Firsts old ALXs (ignoring the fact if England was like the rest of Europe,Route 36 wouldn't exist in its current form anyway) Downstairs theres not that much difference between the 36 buses & Firsts Streetdecks anyway,with Highbacked Seating,NSAs & USBs (The 16 Plate Streetdecks even use the same V3 Seating) Some 'day to day' passengers will care about the features fitted to a bus, not all and not in the same way but it will have an impact on whether some passengers will use the bus (particularly those people on the fence it may be the final positive). I wouldn't say proud or embarrassed about riding on any particular bus but I have certainly looked poorly on an operator deploying a lower quality vehicle (not necessarily just vehicle spec but wider presentation) and am less likely to trust them or give them the benefit of the doubt. It may not be as big a factor as some people (and operators) like to make it out to be but there is a worth to a well equipped bus up to a point which varies from route to route & operator to operator as to what is best. In terms of on-board announcements the only significant reason to have an issue with automated ones is over pronunciation. British place names (right down to street names) have a tendency to not always be pronounced as they are spelled and this can trip up automated announcements where a properly briefed real person doing the recordings can avoid those pitfalls (which helps make the announcements easier to understand for those who relay on them). Beyond this there is little difference between how things work and the quality of the delivery is more down to programming and operator choice and not intrinsic in the system per-se.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Sept 24, 2022 12:33:11 GMT 1
I wonder if Transdev will eventually change the route to run from the Bus Station like the rest of their services. Maybe Bus Station, Vicar Lane, then up to Roundhay Road via the 12/ 3 route.
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Sept 24, 2022 19:53:03 GMT 1
Has anything been said about how this is going to work with mcards and the new fares? So far, sky class routes have had higher fares than normal routes, would this be an exception?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2022 20:26:10 GMT 1
Has anything been said about how this is going to work with mcards and the new fares? So far, sky class routes have had higher fares than normal routes, would this be an exception? the X43 still accepts System Ones between Manchester & Prestwich after its 'Sky Class' upgrade,so i don't see it affecting M-Cards on X98/9
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Post by Mr D Roebuck-Johnson on Sept 24, 2022 21:41:09 GMT 1
Was on the 7 today from harrogate to seacroft to see relations. Got talking to the driver who said management were running round like headless chickens trying to cover the x98/99 with drivers. Apparently York have managed to push the rostering for vehicles & drivers onto Harrogate from October ! Because Harrogate can cut other services easier than York to cover the work !
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 24, 2022 21:45:57 GMT 1
Has anything been said about how this is going to work with mcards and the new fares? So far, sky class routes have had higher fares than normal routes, would this be an exception? It costs the same on CityZap as it does on Coastliner
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Sept 24, 2022 21:52:26 GMT 1
Has anything been said about how this is going to work with mcards and the new fares? So far, sky class routes have had higher fares than normal routes, would this be an exception? They only have higher fares because they are cross-boundary services. I'm pretty sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe all buses in West Yorkshire HAVE to accept MCards and such (to the county boundary). Even on CityZap you can use an MCard to Amazon on Pontefract Lane.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Sept 24, 2022 21:57:50 GMT 1
Was on the 7 today from harrogate to seacroft to see relations. Got talking to the driver who said management were running round like headless chickens trying to cover the x98/99 with drivers. Apparently York have managed to push the rostering for vehicles & drivers onto Harrogate from October ! Because Harrogate can cut other services easier than York to cover the work ! Oh dear. I noticed last Sunday that Harrogate were even cancelling journeys on the hourly no. 7. All I seem to see on Facebook is the company advertising for new drivers.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2022 22:44:49 GMT 1
Has anything been said about how this is going to work with mcards and the new fares? So far, sky class routes have had higher fares than normal routes, would this be an exception? They only have higher fares because they are cross-boundary services. I'm pretty sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe all buses in West Yorkshire HAVE to accept MCards and such (to the county boundary). Even on CityZap you can use an MCard to Amazon on Pontefract Lane. I Don't think they have to accept M-Cards,as unlike the Over 60's/Disabled passes theres no law requiring them to do so,but i think it's part of the 'package' to be able to use Metro bus stations & stops,appear on the WYMetro site they have to accept M-Cards plus our Mayor would no doubt have something to say if a service didn't accept them (coach services aside) Around 10-15 years ago there was an independent that had a falling out with Metro for a short while,stopped accepting the Metro Cards & started stopping their buses a few yards down from each bus stop because of it (I Think it was Tates Travel,but cannot say for sure)
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Post by stephen01 on Sept 25, 2022 0:11:27 GMT 1
They only have higher fares because they are cross-boundary services. I'm pretty sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe all buses in West Yorkshire HAVE to accept MCards and such (to the county boundary). Even on CityZap you can use an MCard to Amazon on Pontefract Lane. I Don't think they have to accept M-Cards,as unlike the Over 60's/Disabled passes theres no law requiring them to do so,but i think it's part of the 'package' to be able to use Metro bus stations & stops,appear on the WYMetro site they have to accept M-Cards plus our Mayor would no doubt have something to say if a service didn't accept them (coach services aside) Around 10-15 years ago there was an independent that had a falling out with Metro for a short while,stopped accepting the Metro Cards & started stopping their buses a few yards down from each bus stop because of it (I Think it was Tates Travel,but cannot say for sure) M Cards have only been about since 2014. The "smart card" passes started to be rolled out starting with the Yellow 11-16 year ones in 2010 with the School based ines following and 2013/2014 the MCard passes came out with the upgrade of the 16-25 young Adults pass. It was also SGI that refused to accept Metro passes for a while and I recall the same with the Stanley Gath re-incarnation/shambles of M Travel but NOT Tates Travel.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2022 0:26:55 GMT 1
I Don't think they have to accept M-Cards,as unlike the Over 60's/Disabled passes theres no law requiring them to do so,but i think it's part of the 'package' to be able to use Metro bus stations & stops,appear on the WYMetro site they have to accept M-Cards plus our Mayor would no doubt have something to say if a service didn't accept them (coach services aside) Around 10-15 years ago there was an independent that had a falling out with Metro for a short while,stopped accepting the Metro Cards & started stopping their buses a few yards down from each bus stop because of it (I Think it was Tates Travel,but cannot say for sure) M Cards have only been about since 2014. The "smart card" passes started to be rolled out starting with the Yellow 11-16 year ones in 2010 with the School based ines following and 2013/2014 the MCard passes came out with the upgrade of the 16-25 young Adults pass. It was also SGI that refused to accept Metro passes for a while and I recall the same with the Stanley Gath re-incarnation/shambles of M Travel but NOT Tates Travel. I Was probably M Travel i was thinking of (all i remembered was it was one that operated in the Wakefield district),i know the M Cards are newer but the situation i was thinking of was with the old Metro Cards (the cardboard ones that required a photocard) the the M-Cards replaced.
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Post by Bradford Traveller on Sept 25, 2022 10:53:18 GMT 1
I Don't think they have to accept M-Cards,as unlike the Over 60's/Disabled passes theres no law requiring them to do so,but i think it's part of the 'package' to be able to use Metro bus stations & stops,appear on the WYMetro site they have to accept M-Cards plus our Mayor would no doubt have something to say if a service didn't accept them (coach services aside) Around 10-15 years ago there was an independent that had a falling out with Metro for a short while,stopped accepting the Metro Cards & started stopping their buses a few yards down from each bus stop because of it (I Think it was Tates Travel,but cannot say for sure) M Cards have only been about since 2014. The "smart card" passes started to be rolled out starting with the Yellow 11-16 year ones in 2010 with the School based ines following and 2013/2014 the MCard passes came out with the upgrade of the 16-25 young Adults pass. It was also SGI that refused to accept Metro passes for a while and I recall the same with the Stanley Gath re-incarnation/shambles of M Travel but NOT Tates Travel. MetroCards have been used for a long time before Smart cards were introduced. The only exceptions for usage were football specials etc.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Sept 26, 2022 12:50:21 GMT 1
I wonder if Pride of the North B7/ B9s will be used on the route until the MMCs are ready. Surely there's no way they can repaint/ refurbish them in less than a week. All 4 CityZaps were still in York yesterday.
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Post by stephen01 on Sept 26, 2022 13:54:39 GMT 1
I wonder if Pride of the North B7/ B9s will be used on the route until the MMCs are ready. Surely there's no way they can repaint/ refurbish them in less than a week. All 4 CityZaps were still in York yesterday. they'll have to as the Zap buses get stood-down this week.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 26, 2022 16:21:01 GMT 1
I wonder if Pride of the North B7/ B9s will be used on the route until the MMCs are ready. Surely there's no way they can repaint/ refurbish them in less than a week. All 4 CityZaps were still in York yesterday. I expect they'll just change the lettering rather than get a repaint.
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lucyp
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Post by lucyp on Sept 27, 2022 0:45:22 GMT 1
Probably a good idea to use clapped out old buses whilst the newly recruited via Twitter and Facebook drivers learn the route, before they write off the "Skyclass" buses. Linton Road is narrow. Main Street in Linton on the approach to the bridge, before you cross into Collingham is very narrow. East Keswick is narrow because of all the parked cars. A "Skyclass" is 2 inches wider than a Streetdeck. They will also need to fit some tree defenders because there are many low branches.
Fares wise - the new mayor brought in a maximum single journey price in West Yorkshire is £2 irrespective of the bus, so that is all that they can charge.
There is little point in running the bus to Leeds bus station. The location is inconvenient and most people alight at The Headrow anyway. It currently runs to the train station which is more convenient. Most people use it to connect to a train, not another bus.
Route wise, there is little that can be changed. It is the only service that serves Roseville Road, and it doesn't even serve that a peak times into Leeds. It is also the only service that serves Roundhay Road between Oakwood Clock and Easterly Road.
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Sept 27, 2022 16:32:21 GMT 1
Little sneak peak
/photo/1
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