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Post by justpassingby on May 8, 2015 20:28:20 GMT 1
So that's the current position right now according to this tweet that has been made to people who have asked what is going on. Who knows what'll happen next.
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Post by mainline1970 on May 9, 2015 15:44:01 GMT 1
Remember, the 'owner' of Yorkshire Bus Group puts OFFICIAL on anything to do with SGI, and seems to thinks he has sole rights to report anything about the company, and if it hasn't come from or through him, will try to make out your information is inaccurate. That would be (BARRY) who runs that page.Lastest is he works for SGI now as there legal man.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on May 9, 2015 17:35:18 GMT 1
I assume they've deregistered all their services with vosa if they aren't operating at the moment?
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Post by gooderson1 on May 10, 2015 8:18:19 GMT 1
Is this a company or a community interest group.
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Post by justpassingby on May 10, 2015 17:17:13 GMT 1
If Yorkshire Buses Ltd submits an actual standard license application with the same SGI names, I would expect quite an amount of objections sent to the Traffic Commissioner in response, and whether a license application should happen will need to be determined at a Public Inquiry. However, seeing as many operators get to stick it to the many people they've caused problems with and start phoenix companies anyway, probably not.
The whole thing is a mess, and I am merely someone who wants to air my views on this. Nobody is truly getting the full story here, one person says this and the other says that. What's the real situation and what happens next? Even Metro has stayed silent on this and they're the ones who publish all the timetables and other information. So what about anyone who actually uses SGI, waits at a bus stop, and it doesn't come? Metro should have announced something by now but nothing has come.
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SGI Buses
May 10, 2015 21:07:56 GMT 1
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on May 10, 2015 21:07:56 GMT 1
Quite agree. Possible SGI didn't notify Metro, or at least not until the very last minute so Metro may or may not know the situation . A very interesting state of affairs. As they say in the movies "watch this space !" Now tweeting that the 183 & 624 will run as normal (depending on what their interpretation of 'normal' is)
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Post by westyorkshirebus on May 10, 2015 21:44:19 GMT 1
But apparently will be run by a "coach", so presumably a Station Coaches one.
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SGI Buses
May 10, 2015 22:34:55 GMT 1
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Post by shedman on May 10, 2015 22:34:55 GMT 1
Does anyone know what the loading for these services are like?
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SGI Buses
May 11, 2015 0:26:52 GMT 1
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Post by Dom on May 11, 2015 0:26:52 GMT 1
Quite agree. Possible SGI didn't notify Metro, or at least not until the very last minute so Metro may or may not know the situation . A very interesting state of affairs. As they say in the movies "watch this space !" Now tweeting that the 183 & 624 will run as normal (depending on what their interpretation of 'normal' is) Aren't the 183/624 a sort of school service they run, but with any passenger?
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Post by angrycommuter on May 11, 2015 15:05:20 GMT 1
Odd situation. From reading the twitter feeds it seems that the main reason is the dispute between SGI and Metro for the funding of concessionary fares.
However there are conflicting posts with some stating the services are suspended, some that the company is closing and others saying Station Coaches are running bits.
Whatever the truth, it is a PR disaster for SGI who now look bad from a passengers point of view who cannot trust the services from one day to the next. They also seem to have alienated Metro.....
There was so much promise, West Yorkshire is crying out for competition. Unfortunately is seems that another independent made the wrong decisions and have suffered as a result.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2015 15:20:46 GMT 1
There was so much promise, West Yorkshire is crying out for competition. Unfortunately is seems that another independent made the wrong decisions and have suffered as a result. It unfortunately seems to be the case over the last few years. Look at Yorkshire Line, going against the likes of First in Leeds and Arriva in Wakefield. They started with much promise but quickly went downhill and were gone in 6 months flat. Despite the reputation, i actually welcomed SGI setting up a competing 126 against Arriva. The fares they charge from my stop in Horbury to Wakefield has risen by at least 38 percent over the last 5 years and for no reason. The last one is when the fuel prices were in fact going down so you could tell it was a move for profit. SGI's £1.50 over £2.50 was a no brainer and i believe the service did get popular. Its a shame they cannot run a service properly, make the right decisions and stick with them. As my area will return to an Arriva Monopoly(Being Arriva Yorkshire and Yorkshire Tiger).
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Post by clifton on May 11, 2015 20:18:40 GMT 1
I agree competition is a good thing, but it needs to be a professional operator that adds value for the traveling public & bus industry.
SGI certainly does not do this. Cheaper fares are not everything, you get what you pay for.
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Post by dwarfer1979 on May 12, 2015 8:47:18 GMT 1
There was so much promise, West Yorkshire is crying out for competition. Unfortunately is seems that another independent made the wrong decisions and have suffered as a result. It unfortunately seems to be the case over the last few years. Look at Yorkshire Line, going against the likes of First in Leeds and Arriva in Wakefield. They started with much promise but quickly went downhill and were gone in 6 months flat. Despite the reputation, i actually welcomed SGI setting up a competing 126 against Arriva. The fares they charge from my stop in Horbury to Wakefield has risen by at least 38 percent over the last 5 years and for no reason. The last one is when the fuel prices were in fact going down so you could tell it was a move for profit. SGI's £1.50 over £2.50 was a no brainer and i believe the service did get popular. Its a shame they cannot run a service properly, make the right decisions and stick with them. As my area will return to an Arriva Monopoly(Being Arriva Yorkshire and Yorkshire Tiger). Whilst fuel is a significant cost for bus operators it is not the largest cost factor, that being employment costs which account for over 50% of costs, and pretty much all other costs are going up whilst income from local authorities (through contracted bus services & concessionary fares which are significant income streams for many operators) is under pressure. Bus operators hedge their fuel costs so they won't change as your pump price changes and fuel costs have been yo-yoing all over the place recently and have not reduced anything like they have increased and bus operators have never passed on the full fuel increase cost to customers. To provide a bit of context to your 38% fare rise in 5-years is that wholesale fuel prices had effectively doubled over the last 8-years and that doesn't include the cut in Fuel Duty Rebate that came in the middle of that period whilst modern buses use more fuel than the vehicles they replaced (so whilst the pence per litre may be dropping the overall fuel cost isn't dropping to the same levels) so your fares have probably gone up half as much as operators fuel costs have. Insurance, Employment and Admin (running RTI & smartcard systems are complex and require staff to cope and extra involvement by local authorities in meetings with operators all increase pressure on operators) costs have all increased dramatically over recent years putting more pressure on operators, this is making it harder and harder for small operators to survive (the good ones find struggle to resource all the extra demands on them whilst the poor ones just can't find the gaps to just cream off work). A big enough operation to cover the extra support costs, a diverse business mix to spread the income mix or a small & focused business that can be managed by one person are effectively the key to surviving in the modern market though a friendly and helpful local authority willing and able to assist with the more complicated burdens on the small operator can help make the environment more conducive to survival.
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SGI Buses
May 12, 2015 9:20:06 GMT 1
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on May 12, 2015 9:20:06 GMT 1
Odd situation. From reading the twitter feeds it seems that the main reason is the dispute between SGI and Metro for the funding of concessionary fares. SGI are saying that the reimbursement is 'disproportionate' It's that a factual statement, or it is just that SGI think that they should get more that what they are actually entitled to. I believe that TSY worked it on the basis of PASS REVENUE OWED minus DAY TICKET SALES Now, if SGI were apparently selling MetroDays at a £1 discount (£4.50), then if Metro were working to the same system, but deducting £5.50 for each one sold, this could be where the 'extra money owed' could come from.
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Post by titan1641 on May 12, 2015 13:30:11 GMT 1
Firstly, if SGI are selling MetroDays for £1 less than they should be sold for then I would imagine that's illegal in some way or form. Secondly, if that is the case, then the situation is surely of SGI's own making so they have no reason to complain to Metro?
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Post by whereami on May 12, 2015 16:19:57 GMT 1
Firstly, if SGI are selling MetroDays for £1 less than they should be sold for then I would imagine that's illegal in some way or form. Secondly, if that is the case, then the situation is surely of SGI's own making so they have no reason to complain to Metro? They were selling the Metro Day ticket for £4.50, so, that if their bus didn't arrive, then their passengers could then catch an Arriva service without being penalised. So, I've no sympathy for them/him.
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Post by SCH117X on May 12, 2015 21:29:00 GMT 1
I agree competition is a good thing, but it needs to be a professional operator that adds value for the traveling public & bus industry. SGI certainly does not do this. Cheaper fares are not everything, you get what you pay for. This is entirely correct, Also the major's like Arriva, First, Stagecoach etc run services for the benefit of the paying public, late evening's, Sundays and bank holidays, companies like SGI dont. The legislation should to changed to require anyone running a service that for 4/5th or more of its route is in direct competition with an existing service has to run for the same time periods and same days as the existing service.
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Post by deerfold on May 13, 2015 13:49:22 GMT 1
The legislation should to changed to require anyone running a service that for 4/5th or more of its route is in direct competition with an existing service has to run for the same time periods and same days as the existing service. Does that include services where the original company's Evening and/or Sunday services are subsidised?
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Post by deerfold on May 13, 2015 13:51:32 GMT 1
Odd situation. From reading the twitter feeds it seems that the main reason is the dispute between SGI and Metro for the funding of concessionary fares. SGI are saying that the reimbursement is 'disproportionate' It's that a factual statement, or it is just that SGI think that they should get more that what they are actually entitled to. As they haven't said what's disproportionate about it, it's hard to say. Incidentally have they actually announced giving up services anywhere (except buried in replies to other people's tweets)?
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Post by justpassingby on May 13, 2015 14:50:06 GMT 1
Has anyone tried contacting Metro, DVSA or the Traffic Commissioner's office about all this? Surely the TC will have to take notice now?
The fact that Metro has stayed silent on an operator not running services or ceasing trading or whatever they want to call it is rather strange.
Perhaps the Government needs to revise rules about the Section 22 Community Bus Permits .... that SGI were using.
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Post by Craig on May 13, 2015 20:35:31 GMT 1
Once again folks, please just be a little mindful about what is posted. Obviously this is a sensitive ongoing issue so it's probably best to avoid making outright assertions or derogatory comments etc etc.
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SGI Buses
May 13, 2015 23:32:03 GMT 1
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Post by shedman on May 13, 2015 23:32:03 GMT 1
I noticed we are being spoke about on Twitter
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Post by gooderson1 on May 14, 2015 10:43:27 GMT 1
Please see the link busandcoach.com/news/articles/european-commission-takes-on-dft-over-ct-exemptions/From the details I have read in this link and elsewhere it would appear to effect Sec 22 operations as well as Sec 19. If Brussels "win" then it would cause problems for schools who have their own minibuses plus operation by the likes of N Yorkshire CC and you know who. Perhaps this could be a reason for the "suspension" of services.
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SGI Buses
May 14, 2015 10:55:38 GMT 1
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Post by mk2mcw on May 14, 2015 10:55:38 GMT 1
In all the operators I have ever seen SGI or Haste or whatever they call themselves now have been the most unorganised and chaotic. Harsh maybe.
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Post by deerfold on May 14, 2015 13:27:04 GMT 1
I noticed we are being spoke about on Twitter Anywhere in particular?
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