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Post by westyorkshirebus on Aug 5, 2021 22:54:51 GMT 1
WYCA in conjunction with the three major operators have put a bid in to the Government's Zero Emission Bus Regional Areas (ZEBRA) scheme for funding for 121 buses. They've requested £23m Arriva for 47 double deckers which would operate services 110, 126/127, 148/149 & 425/427 along with charging equipment being installed at Belle Isle First for 32 single deckers for services 9, 15, 48, 91 and others (its not clear on the map) along with equipment at Bramley Transdev for 32 single deckers for services 662, A1, A2, A3 with equipment at Keighley and Idle WYCA themselves for 10 single deckers for Hebden Bridge, Todmorden and Holmfirth tendered networks with equipment at the depots of whoever wins the tenders Details are here www.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/media/6606/zebra-expression-of-interest-final-redacted-for-publication.pdfIf successful buses would enter service from 2022 for Transdev, 2023 for Metro and 2024 for Arriva & First
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Post by granger on Aug 5, 2021 23:35:41 GMT 1
For first Leeds, the other routes are most likely 46,47,86,87
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Post by stephen01 on Aug 6, 2021 7:01:28 GMT 1
WYCA in conjunction with the three major operators have put a bid in to the Government's Zero Emission Bus Regional Areas (ZEBRA) scheme for funding for 121 buses. They've requested £23m Arriva for 47 double deckers which would operate services 110, 126/127, 148/149 & 425/427 along with charging equipment being installed at Belle Isle First for 32 single deckers for services 9, 15, 48, 91 and others (its not clear on the map) along with equipment at Bramley Transdev for 32 single deckers for services 662, A1, A2, A3 with equipment at Keighley and Idle WYCA themselves for 10 single deckers for Hebden Bridge, Todmorden and Holmfirth tendered networks with equipment at the depots of whoever wins the tenders Details are here www.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/media/6606/zebra-expression-of-interest-final-redacted-for-publication.pdfIf successful buses would enter service from 2022 for Transdev, 2023 for Metro and 2024 for Arriva & First The proposed routes aren't even listed and the numbers for Arriva don't really tally either. Can also see staff at Arriva's Dewsbury & Wakefield depots not been too happy with this either as it'll be a massive cut of routes & vehicles operated from Dewsbury and Wakefield wont be keen to take it back as they even dropped the peak time trips.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Aug 6, 2021 9:59:29 GMT 1
No they aren't, but you can work it out from the map on page 9
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Aug 6, 2021 17:20:07 GMT 1
What a waste of 23 million, Leeds already has more than enough new buses, with even more due! That money could go a very long way towards repairing all the rough streets buses bounce over every day throughout the county. A classic one is the bus lane Leeds bound just past Kirkstall Abbey, you can have all the shiney toys you like, but if it's a rough ride then it won't tempt people out of cars so the object is defeated!
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Post by deerfold on Aug 6, 2021 18:25:10 GMT 1
What a waste of 23 million, Leeds already has more than enough new buses, with even more due! That money could go a very long way towards repairing all the rough streets buses bounce over every day throughout the county. A classic one is the bus lane Leeds bound just past Kirkstall Abbey, you can have all the shiney toys you like, but if it's a rough ride then it won't tempt people out of cars so the object is defeated! But that's not what Central Government is offering funding for. Metro can't get funds from this and use it for that.
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Post by jdodger08 on Aug 6, 2021 18:58:43 GMT 1
And by looks of it, the busses which could be allocated to First Leeds are for routes which otherwise would not receive direct investment by First.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Aug 6, 2021 19:44:44 GMT 1
I'm never one for doing as I'm told when a common sense approach is crying out to be done. Metro should tell the government to stick the 23 million up their backside and instead invest it in much needed road repairs. Leeds has more than enough new buses, and some of the buses elsewhere to be replaced in West Yorkshire are quite new as well, such as those on the 110. Like I say you can have shiney new buses but you won't have shiney happy people when they get bounced all over the shop, for example the ride quality on a Streetdeck is shocking at times. You can't also guarantee that the current buses on routes like the 110 won't be cascaded to another part of the country meaning older buses will still exist in Yorkshire.
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Post by deerfold on Aug 6, 2021 19:51:06 GMT 1
I'm never one for doing as I'm told when a common sense approach is crying out to be done. Metro should tell the government to stick the 23 million up their backside and instead invest it in much needed road repairs. Leeds has more than enough new buses, and some of the buses elsewhere to be replaced in West Yorkshire are quite new as well, such as those on the 110. Like I say you can have shiney new buses but you won't have shiney happy people when they get bounced all over the shop, for example the ride quality on a Streetdeck is shocking at times. You can't also guarantee that the current buses on routes like the 110 won't be cascaded to another part of the country meaning older buses will still exist in Yorkshire. And if they do that they'll be prosecuted. I suspect that if these buses have been bought using this grant there will be restrictions on where they can be used.
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Post by stephen01 on Aug 6, 2021 20:26:11 GMT 1
Also I've just seen charging equipment at Belle Isle, would this mean if this does ACTUALLY go ahead, the 126/127 would have to move to Wakefield depot, as the charging points would be there? it would which would be a case of robbing peter and not paying paul as that would be a massive staff reduction at Dewsbury unless the 202/203 gets an increase and the other routes too. NB: just worked it out prior to the last changes for 126/127 there were 11 buses/boards when they interworked together used with the evening peaktime trips interworked with 212 & 283. Now since the recent changes with 126/127 interwork with 280 the 126/127 no longer interwork with each other so one on board a vehicle will to a circular on 280 and then a 126 to Wakefield and come straight back out as a 126 to Dewsbury and then on to 280 again. Another board will do exactly the same but this time after the 280 circular it does 127 to Wakefield and back to Dewsbury as 127. Since the reduction in frequency to every 15 mins it requires an extra 4 buses. To enable the ZEBRA bid to work i'd say the 126/127 will be stopping interworking and increase back to every 10 mins to allow the transfer to occur.
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Post by stephen01 on Aug 6, 2021 21:34:54 GMT 1
I'm never one for doing as I'm told when a common sense approach is crying out to be done. Metro should tell the government to stick the 23 million up their backside and instead invest it in much needed road repairs. Leeds has more than enough new buses, and some of the buses elsewhere to be replaced in West Yorkshire are quite new as well, such as those on the 110. Like I say you can have shiney new buses but you won't have shiney happy people when they get bounced all over the shop, for example the ride quality on a Streetdeck is shocking at times. You can't also guarantee that the current buses on routes like the 110 won't be cascaded to another part of the country meaning older buses will still exist in Yorkshire. If the bid gets accepted and they get the buses with the funding then it could enable buses like the Hybrids or 15 plate E400's to replace the older buses like the Lowlanders or the worn out ex Kent E400's which are in need of TLC. The problem with that is they've got to be careful on what moves about as Leeds CAZ is still on the cards but is been reviewed which would mean since lockdown 3 there's now a higher chance of it been re-instated so all the Leeds routes run by Arriva will need to be Euro6 which most have already been converted ready for the York CAZ scheme and in readiness for the Bradford one next year.
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Post by stephen01 on Aug 6, 2021 21:36:11 GMT 1
I'm excited to see the new single decker's for Hebden Bridge, Todmorden and Holmfirth. Also to see who wins the tenders for this with the new buses. I can see these been Electric Solos or electric EVMs or Stratas
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Post by stantheman on Aug 7, 2021 0:09:43 GMT 1
I'm never one for doing as I'm told when a common sense approach is crying out to be done. Metro should tell the government to stick the 23 million up their backside and instead invest it in much needed road repairs. Leeds has more than enough new buses, and some of the buses elsewhere to be replaced in West Yorkshire are quite new as well, such as those on the 110. Like I say you can have shiney new buses but you won't have shiney happy people when they get bounced all over the shop, for example the ride quality on a Streetdeck is shocking at times. You can't also guarantee that the current buses on routes like the 110 won't be cascaded to another part of the country meaning older buses will still exist in Yorkshire. If the bid gets accepted and they get the buses with the funding then it could enable buses like the Hybrids or 15 plate E400's to replace the older buses like the Lowlanders or the worn out ex Kent E400's which are in need of TLC. The Arriva buses are said to enter service in 2024. Can you really see the Lowlanders still lasting another 3 years as I can’t. I’m sure the newer ex Kent vehicles will be refurbished within the next 12 months.
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Post by martinsfp on Aug 7, 2021 1:25:57 GMT 1
I'm never one for doing as I'm told when a common sense approach is crying out to be done. Metro should tell the government to stick the 23 million up their backside and instead invest it in much needed road repairs. Leeds has more than enough new buses, and some of the buses elsewhere to be replaced in West Yorkshire are quite new as well, such as those on the 110. Like I say you can have shiney new buses but you won't have shiney happy people when they get bounced all over the shop, for example the ride quality on a Streetdeck is shocking at times. You can't also guarantee that the current buses on routes like the 110 won't be cascaded to another part of the country meaning older buses will still exist in Yorkshire. Are you…. suggesting Metro misappropriates specific grant funding to give the money to local authorities to pay for road repairs?! I mean, it’s a radical idea but I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t fly. If you said they should have focused their bid on buses for other parts of the region then that would be a reasonable argument. If you would prefer there’s a road repairs grants scheme with a focus on public transport reliability, I suggest you focus on getting a job as an advisor to the DfT.
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kendall17
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Post by kendall17 on Aug 7, 2021 8:35:53 GMT 1
What a waste of 23 million, Leeds already has more than enough new buses, with even more due! The thing is, First would bid for funding for Leeds, without this joint bid. This joint bid is part of the bus alliance and probably a bid to slow down (ultimately stop) the bus network being taken under public ownership.
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kendall17
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Post by kendall17 on Aug 7, 2021 8:39:57 GMT 1
I'm excited to see the new single decker's for Hebden Bridge, Todmorden and Holmfirth. Also to see who wins the tenders for this with the new buses. I can see these been Electric Solos or electric EVMs or Stratas So it could be anything on the market then, yeah?
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Post by kendall17 on Aug 7, 2021 8:42:28 GMT 1
Also I've just seen charging equipment at Belle Isle, would this mean if this does ACTUALLY go ahead, the 126/127 would have to move to Wakefield depot, as the charging points would be there? it would which would be a case of robbing peter and not paying paul as that would be a massive staff reduction at Dewsbury unless the 202/203 gets an increase and the other routes too. NB: just worked it out prior to the last changes for 126/127 there were 11 buses/boards when they interworked together used with the evening peaktime trips interworked with 212 & 283. Now since the recent changes with 126/127 interwork with 280 the 126/127 no longer interwork with each other so one on board a vehicle will to a circular on 280 and then a 126 to Wakefield and come straight back out as a 126 to Dewsbury and then on to 280 again. Another board will do exactly the same but this time after the 280 circular it does 127 to Wakefield and back to Dewsbury as 127. Since the reduction in frequency to every 15 mins it requires an extra 4 buses. To enable the ZEBRA bid to work i'd say the 126/127 will be stopping interworking and increase back to every 10 mins to allow the transfer to occur. From what I understan, Belle Isle is already at capacity, so surely the 126/127 moving would be in exchange for routes going the other way.
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Post by stephen01 on Aug 7, 2021 9:05:52 GMT 1
I can see these been Electric Solos or electric EVMs or Stratas So it could be anything on the market then, yeah? No there the only electric low floor vehicles big enough for the routes up for tender as they are all run with mini Solos as it is.
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Post by stephen01 on Aug 7, 2021 9:10:42 GMT 1
it would which would be a case of robbing peter and not paying paul as that would be a massive staff reduction at Dewsbury unless the 202/203 gets an increase and the other routes too. NB: just worked it out prior to the last changes for 126/127 there were 11 buses/boards when they interworked together used with the evening peaktime trips interworked with 212 & 283. Now since the recent changes with 126/127 interwork with 280 the 126/127 no longer interwork with each other so one on board a vehicle will to a circular on 280 and then a 126 to Wakefield and come straight back out as a 126 to Dewsbury and then on to 280 again. Another board will do exactly the same but this time after the 280 circular it does 127 to Wakefield and back to Dewsbury as 127. Since the reduction in frequency to every 15 mins it requires an extra 4 buses. To enable the ZEBRA bid to work i'd say the 126/127 will be stopping interworking and increase back to every 10 mins to allow the transfer to occur. From what I understan, Belle Isle is already at capacity, so surely the 126/127 moving would be in exchange for routes going the other way. There'd only be 231/232 or 119/120 that Dewsbury can run but if it were 119/120 i can't see Dewsbury using the mini e200s as they are not popular vehicles amongst drivers so it's back to 231/232 moving over in exchange which would make sense as Dewsbury originally ran the Sunday & Bank Holiday duties prior to them full been moved to Tiger a few years ago.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Aug 7, 2021 9:14:00 GMT 1
I hope the government aren’t reading this thread or else WY won’t win
So far the replies seem to be: West Yorkshire doesn’t need new buses, they’ve got too many already Money should be spent on other stuff Arriva running the 126/127 from Wakefield seems to be beyond people’s wildest imagination so the bid is basically invalid
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Post by stephen01 on Aug 7, 2021 9:27:28 GMT 1
I hope the government aren’t reading this thread or else WY won’t win So far the replies seem to be: West Yorkshire doesn’t need new buses, they’ve got too many already Money should be spent on other stuff Arriva running the 126/127 from Wakefield seems to be beyond people’s wildest imagination so the bid is basically invalid the issue with the 126/127 moving to Wakefield could lead to staff been out of a job potentially at Dewsbury depot BUT it is in need of new buses as the last investment it had was the Geminis back in 2011 and before that was the Commanders 1409-1415 in late 2007 and the Commanders 1450-1453 in late 2009.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Aug 7, 2021 9:39:29 GMT 1
I hope the government aren’t reading this thread or else WY won’t win So far the replies seem to be: West Yorkshire doesn’t need new buses, they’ve got too many already Money should be spent on other stuff Arriva running the 126/127 from Wakefield seems to be beyond people’s wildest imagination so the bid is basically invalid the issue with the 126/127 moving to Wakefield could lead to staff been out of a job potentially at Dewsbury depot BUT it is in need of new buses as the last investment it had was the Geminis back in 2011 and before that was the Commanders 1409-1415 in late 2007 and the Commanders 1450-1453 in late 2009. But why can't the small number of Dewsbury drivers required for the 126/7 simply move the short distance to Belle Isle? In my job I'm supposed to be based in an area bounded by East and North Leeds to a point, but I have been more than willing to help out on a regular bases certian days of the week in areas beyond the point in the North West of the city, even as far out as LS19/20. And I live in South Leeds and use the bus everywhere, Dewsbury depot and Wakefield depot aren't exactly that far apart drivers couldn't reasonably commute.
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twy7
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Post by twy7 on Aug 7, 2021 11:30:43 GMT 1
I hope the government aren’t reading this thread or else WY won’t win So far the replies seem to be: West Yorkshire doesn’t need new buses, they’ve got too many already Money should be spent on other stuff Arriva running the 126/127 from Wakefield seems to be beyond people’s wildest imagination so the bid is basically invalid I am very surprised people say that new buses are not needed because 2024 will mean all of these at arriva will be 15 year old or more........ 14 e 200 at dewsbury 13 single 1100 at heckie 7 tempo 12 commander 9 lowlander 16 from south 10 e 400 So that is 81 if I have counted it right and they will only get 47 here
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twy7
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Post by twy7 on Aug 7, 2021 11:35:50 GMT 1
I hope the government aren’t reading this thread or else WY won’t win So far the replies seem to be: West Yorkshire doesn’t need new buses, they’ve got too many already Money should be spent on other stuff Arriva running the 126/127 from Wakefield seems to be beyond people’s wildest imagination so the bid is basically invalid the issue with the 126/127 moving to Wakefield could lead to staff been out of a job potentially at Dewsbury depot BUT it is in need of new buses as the last investment it had was the Geminis back in 2011 and before that was the Commanders 1409-1415 in late 2007 and the Commanders 1450-1453 in late 2009. I can not find any where in that link where it says 126/7 will need to move to wakefield. Every where will need to go electric at some point so could dewsbury get charging point earlier so do not need them for this because you are right they have not had investment for a long time and arriva do need more new buses than just these
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twy7
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Post by twy7 on Aug 7, 2021 11:46:54 GMT 1
I can not find any where in that link where it says 126/7 will need to move to wakefield. Every where will need to go electric at some point so could dewsbury get charging point earlier so do not need them for this because you are right they have not had investment for a long time and arriva do need more new buses than just these To be fair, it doesn't say on this link that Dewsbury will be getting charging points though. Maybe Arriva want to keep all the electric at one depot to begin with. Yes but my point was we are jumping to a conclusion which may not be right because we do not know if any thing else would be happening unless some one asks arriva to confirm
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