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Post by dennisthemenace504 on Sept 23, 2017 8:01:03 GMT 1
The timetable can be seen on the MyTfGM Journey Planner website. Planning a bus journey between Manchester and Leeds after 5 November brings up the timetable. Timing points listed are: - Leeds City bus station (stand 21)
- Leeds Corn Exchange (towards Leeds only)
- Ainley Top (Lindley Moor Road/Cedar Court Hotel to Manchester and Lindley Moor Road/Warren House Farm towards Leeds)
- Mount (Lindley Moor Road/Moorlands Road)
- Chadderton (Broadway/Middleton Road)
- Manchester Piccadilly Gardens (stand R to Leeds, stand S to Manchester)
- Manchester Chorlton Street (stand EZ outside coach station - same stand as X41/X43)
The timetables suggests the service will run along the A643 between junctions 24 and 23 of the M62. Service will run at following times: Leeds to Manchester Journey time is 1 hour 15 mins (average):- Weekdays: 0630, 0700, 0815, 0930 and every hour until 1830
- Saturdays: 0830 and every hour until 1830
- Sundays: 0930 and every hour until 1730
Manchester to Leeds Journey time is 1 hour 20 mins (average).:- Weekdays: 0600, 0700, 0800, 0900, 1015 and every hour until 1815 (plus 0550 and 0620 from Mount to Leeds)
- Saturdays: 0815 and every hour until 1815 (plus 0745 from Mount to Leeds)
- Sundays: 0915 and every hour until 1715 (plus 0845 from Mount to Leeds)
The timetable allows 30 minutes waiting time in Manchester and 55 minutes at Leeds to cover late running. my.tfgm.com/#/timetables/?service=UKNational:B_ZAP&mode=BUS&date=2017-11-10I wasn't far wrong with what I thought, might happen with it coming off at 24, and rejoin at 23 and vice versa. I, just didn't think it would pick up at Mount.
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on Sept 23, 2017 9:22:36 GMT 1
Have just tried to work out the workings for this
4 Buses a day
Mon - Fri 2 start in Mount, 2 in Manchester 2 finish in Manchester, 2 in Leeds
Saturday & Sunday 1 starts in Mount, 1 in Leeds & 2 in Manchester 2 finish in Manchester, 2 in Leeds
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on Sept 23, 2017 9:24:58 GMT 1
as they have journeys starting in Mount towards Leeds, I would have thought that Mount would have been a better place to split the registration, as any timing changes to those journeys would then only affect one registration (the NE one) and not have any affect on the other half (the NW one)
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 23, 2017 9:29:35 GMT 1
The journeys that start at Mount really are strange and points towards them actually expecting people to board there rather than it just being an operational requirement
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Post by dennisthemenace504 on Sept 23, 2017 10:54:56 GMT 1
as they have journeys starting in Mount towards Leeds, I would have thought that Mount would have been a better place to split the registration, as any timing changes to those journeys would then only affect one registration (the NE one) and not have any affect on the other half (the NW one) Entry and Exit onto M62 (23) at Mount is limited, you can only join Westbound and Exit Eastbound, there is no entry Eastbound or exit Westbound, so, need to come off at 24.
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Post by ajw11239 on Sept 23, 2017 14:33:50 GMT 1
I can't say that timetable is that great to be honest. The frequency isn't great and no way turn up and go, it'd need proper planning.
And surely they can do better than last journeys at 6pm from both sides?
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 23, 2017 17:45:33 GMT 1
You can't expect them to throw so many resources at a new venture to enable a higher frequency. Hourly for such a long distance is perfectly fine
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Post by driver6540 on Sept 23, 2017 21:53:48 GMT 1
1HR 15MINS!!!. Leeds to Manchester on the M62?, Stopping at Ainley Top?. Competing with a minimum of at least 6tph from Manchester-Leeds? New drivers (new wages). Dead running from Burnley to Manchester? How much for a return ticket?. Transdev's most profitable idea yet?. DOOMED to failure!!.
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Post by passenger859 on Sept 23, 2017 22:13:52 GMT 1
1HR 15MINS!!!. Leeds to Manchester on the M62?, Stopping at Ainley Top?. Competing with a minimum of at least 6tph from Manchester-Leeds? New drivers (new wages). Dead running from Burnley to Manchester? How much for a return ticket?. Transdev's most profitable idea yet?. DOOMED to failure!!. May not be dead running from Burnley to Manchester if it interworks with X43? Go Transdev! I'll certainly be using it occasionally. I'm fed up of using First TransPennine every weekend due to the high number of reserved seats making it sometimes hard to find a seat. Plus I'm nearer to Leeds City Bus station than rail station. Period return must surely be less than the £22 one I have to get on Transpennine to enable me to come back up the next day.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2017 23:23:49 GMT 1
1HR 15MINS!!!. Leeds to Manchester on the M62?, Stopping at Ainley Top?. Competing with a minimum of at least 6tph from Manchester-Leeds? New drivers (new wages). Dead running from Burnley to Manchester? How much for a return ticket?. Transdev's most profitable idea yet?. DOOMED to failure!!. Looking at the workings i think the dead milage will not just be from Burnley to Manchester but also Mount & Leeds,would of it not been better to station a couple of vehicles from Keighley (23 Miles to Mount,19 Miles to Leeds compared to 37 Miles from Burnley to Leeds & 24 Miles to Mount) Not the worst dead milage i`ve heard about,but not the best either I Think it might not do as bad as you make out,but from the outside looking in it certainly looks like it has going against it,plus the lack of evening service will possibly stop some people from using it.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 23, 2017 23:50:45 GMT 1
How does National Express and Megabus manage to compete against rail services across the country? Some of the answers to that question will be why Transdev think there is a market here.
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Post by deerfold on Sept 24, 2017 9:14:37 GMT 1
You can't expect them to throw so many resources at a new venture to enable a higher frequency. Hourly for such a long distance is perfectly fine You can if they want people to think it's useful when there's a lot of competition on the route.
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Post by passenger859 on Sept 24, 2017 11:58:32 GMT 1
Surely the Harrogate Starbeck depot is nearest to Leeds City centre? A bit nearer than Keighley.
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Post by deerfold on Sept 24, 2017 12:30:31 GMT 1
How does National Express and Megabus manage to compete against rail services across the country? Some of the answers to that question will be why Transdev think there is a market here. But both National Express and Megabus already compete on this route with most services being part of longer routes.
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Post by deerfold on Sept 24, 2017 16:00:36 GMT 1
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Post by dennisthemenace504 on Sept 24, 2017 19:16:31 GMT 1
When I click on Saturday, it brings up Sunday timetable?
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SF07
Forum Member
Posts: 3,216
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Post by SF07 on Sept 24, 2017 20:22:23 GMT 1
When I click on Saturday, it brings up Sunday timetable? If you change the 12 to 11, it'll show the Saturday times.
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Post by SCH117X on Sept 24, 2017 21:02:47 GMT 1
Surely the Harrogate Starbeck depot is nearest to Leeds City centre? A bit nearer than Keighley. The whole timetable seems very odd, it would be far more logical to have with two buses starting and ending at Manchester and two starting and ending at Leeds, with vehicle operating to and from the depots at Burnely and Starbeck by working additional X43s and 36s, or an existing timetabled working if the return was little used. On the other hand they do seem to like to have all of a service operated by one depot; the Little Explorers would benefit from being worked by both York and Starbeck and possibly the 62 extension to Harrogate might have been more viable if Starbeck had had a role in its operation. Going back further the failed X59 between Harrogate and Skipton could have benefited from Keighley working it as well to see if there was a peak am to Harrogate peak pm from Harrogate market. One of the obvious issues for single depot operation is ticketing with each depot having ticket offers normally only available on its services - the K Card for example although the part of the 62 extension was included in the Harrogate zones and now they cover part of the Little Explorer route which was previously excluded
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Post by jdodger08 on Sept 24, 2017 21:18:37 GMT 1
I like the idea. I think they would have put a lot of thought into it because this is Transdev at the end of the day.
But I wish they had straight of the bat made it an Half Hourly service. With an hourly or every 90mins evening service
I think with the right advertising they could make it appealing to train users... Cheaper fares, City to city connection. They could advertise to students about nights out in Manchester or vice versa. There is a lot they could do with this. And I think with what someone said earlier about connecting tickets with first, this could be a real winner.
Remember this is Zap so they have GPS that tells them the quickest journey to take from point to point. If M621 is bad with heavy traffic, there is Geldard Road/Whitehall road.
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Post by northerner on Sept 25, 2017 12:31:41 GMT 1
I like the idea. I think they would have put a lot of thought into it because this is Transdev at the end of the day. But I wish they had straight of the bat made it an Half Hourly service. With an hourly or every 90mins evening service I think with the right advertising they could make it appealing to train users... Cheaper fares, City to city connection. They could advertise to students about nights out in Manchester or vice versa. There is a lot they could do with this. And I think with what someone said earlier about connecting tickets with first, this could be a real winner. Remember this is Zap so they have GPS that tells them the quickest journey to take from point to point. If M621 is bad with heavy traffic, there is Geldard Road/Whitehall road. I can imagine it will be used by concessionary pass holders, as it will open up a free way for them to travel between the 2 cities, but with an hourly service competing against so many established services I'm not convinced many commuters / shoppers will use it. Last week I bought a NatEx ticket from Manchester to Leeds, and with less than an hour to departure it still only cost £8 so Zap prices will have to be quite low to compete. Unless they plan to use Vamooz style ticketing to offer lower fares to those who book in advance, which would then dent the coach and rail market
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 25, 2017 17:43:56 GMT 1
Do people know you can just turn up and get on a National Express coach to go shopping though, or do they think it's a coach where you book weeks in advance and have luggage to go on holiday.
Whereas a Cityzap will be more obviously known as a regular bus service.
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Post by ajw11239 on Sept 25, 2017 23:16:42 GMT 1
Concession passes don't make that much money either, or not as much as regular tickets. I think it would struggle to attract regulars though, the frequency isn't high enough and the journeys finish far too early in the evening.
I commute from York-Leeds regularly, using offices also in Manchester and London and I would quite like to use the ZAP, based on the trains being quite crowded etc. But it's not very convenient when I have to plan the exact time, and I can't catch it after 6pm because the last service goes then. And by the time I've left the office, got to Chorlton Street etc, it's regularly later than that. It's far too early a time for the service to finish.
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Post by SCH117X on Sept 26, 2017 17:44:33 GMT 1
I like the idea. I think they would have put a lot of thought into it because this is Transdev at the end of the day. . Fast 36s down Scott Hall Road - where was the lot of thought in that disaster?
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Post by deerfold on Sept 26, 2017 18:20:38 GMT 1
I commute from York-Leeds regularly, using offices also in Manchester and London and I would quite like to use the ZAP, based on the trains being quite crowded etc. But it's not very convenient when I have to plan the exact time, and I can't catch it after 6pm because the last service goes then. And by the time I've left the office, got to Chorlton Street etc, it's regularly later than that. It's far too early a time for the service to finish. And of course the other Zap has the advantage that if you are running late you can get the Coastliner.
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Post by gooderson1 on Sept 26, 2017 22:15:48 GMT 1
Had an insight into potential problems this afternoon. Returning from a short stay on the east side of Scotland travelled to West Yorkshire(Huddersfield area) via the A68, A1(M), M1 then M62. All was fine until we approached Hartshead Moor services where overhead messages were stating "congestion between J24 and J26. About 2 miles before J24 hit 4 lanes of stationary traffic(apparently a multi vehicle collision somewhere on the Lancashire side of the border). Took us About 90 minutes to travel the 2 miles from the start of the "jam" to Ainley Top. Whilst I hope that Transdev are successful in operating a second "Cityzap" what will happen to the operation when the M62 is "stuffed" and there is no escape.
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