kendall17
Forum Member
Justice for the 96!
Posts: 4,514
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Post by kendall17 on Nov 18, 2023 6:00:55 GMT 1
No thanks, don't like the assumption of guilt when I'm choosing to travel on your buses instead of my far comfier car, thanks.... that would be my opinion if Worst Bus hadn't already cut all their services in my area. Have to get my receipt checked in Costco everytime I make a purchase, so does everyone else. Doesn't stop them having record membership numbers in the UK. If you've nothing to hide, then there's zero issues.
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Post by kayden11 on Nov 18, 2023 9:14:05 GMT 1
It does seem to me there's a few members on here that are quite supportive of first bus, and I think i would be if they were cutting back my route and leaving gaps in services, yeah that's definitely quite good.
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Post by kayden11 on Nov 18, 2023 9:19:44 GMT 1
So seen as leeds is the only.city in the UK, some.people on here can't tell.me.why no.other company as not re started revenue officers, bus wise anyway, I no the do.it on trains but never stopped it apart.from.when covid were on
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pricel
Forum Member
Posts: 458
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Post by pricel on Nov 18, 2023 11:12:28 GMT 1
“Inspectors” used to exist in the old days, many people think they still do, and nobody had a problem with them then. When I was in London, an inspector boarded and scanned my Oyster card to check it was valid. I survived the experience and wasn’t emotionally distressed. The difference is London buses have more than one door, making it easy to sneak on to buses. West Yorkshire doesn't! Therefore there is not a need for them. I've never seen anyone whose attempted to sneak on a bus actually become successful here as the Driver is always shouting "I just saw you! First Bus can't be loosing much money from unpaid tickets, in fact they are loosing more as they need to pay these people that their job serves no purpose for. Instead of paying for inspectors, how about they stop cutting routes!
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Post by sharksmith on Nov 18, 2023 11:42:31 GMT 1
There is a major cost of living crisis at the moment and petty crime has seen a huge increase.
Most public facing companies are taking steps to mitigate this. You're probably asking the wrong question, maybe you have to ask why aren't other operators taking steps to protect revenue?
As a number of people have pointed out ticket inspectors were the norm back in the NBC/PTE days and people grumbled about them getting onto the bus, but it was no problem if you had the right ticket. If you didn't you got what you deserved for what is basically stealing.
I know one person who looks under 19 who has routinely being having child fare tickets issued by drivers who couldn't be arsed to even ask their age. Because of this tweet they are now going to make sure they get an adult ticket in future.
If you don't like cuts to services then surely the correct bus fares being paid will make this more likely.
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Post by stephen01 on Nov 18, 2023 11:46:44 GMT 1
So seen as leeds is the only.city in the UK, some.people on here can't tell.me.why no.other company as not re started revenue officers, bus wise anyway, I no the do.it on trains but never stopped it apart.from.when covid were on wind your neck in with the sarcasm. It's not just Leeds it's Bradford, Huddersfield and the Calderdale depots as it's West Yorkshire. First are indeed operator to re-launch front-line Revenue Officers. There used to be regular inspectors/revenue officers on routes provided by Metro up until 2018/2019 when they've been phased out. For all we know it could be to support on the "flagship" routes like X6 for examole to help speed up delays with tap on/tap off. The reason why the trains suspended the role during the height of the pandemics with the lock-downs was to allow the staff to either re-deploy as Guards to help try and keep trains running or to do offer support with the Ambulance services by doing, PPE preparation and delivery, help on the road with Patient Transport Service crews and even to act as Volunteer Car Drivers or Community First Responders during the pandemic.
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Post by deerfold on Nov 18, 2023 13:45:00 GMT 1
“Inspectors” used to exist in the old days, many people think they still do, and nobody had a problem with them then. When I was in London, an inspector boarded and scanned my Oyster card to check it was valid. I survived the experience and wasn’t emotionally distressed. The difference is London buses have more than one door, making it easy to sneak on to buses. West Yorkshire doesn't! Therefore there is not a need for them. I've never seen anyone whose attempted to sneak on a bus actually become successful here as the Driver is always shouting "I just saw you! First Bus can't be loosing much money from unpaid tickets, in fact they are loosing more as they need to pay these people that their job serves no purpose for. Instead of paying for inspectors, how about they stop cutting routes! Good that so many on here know that this is a bad idea by First and know that people aren't dodging fares. As someone who isn't an insider with First, I've no idea if this idea will cost more than it saves. Presumably if it does, First will drop them again. In London, many of the people they catch are using concessionary passes belonging to other people. That doesn't need two doors on a bus.
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Post by deerfold on Nov 18, 2023 13:52:34 GMT 1
If they did a flat fare round the city perimeter of £1 then £2 further out, but what I'm trying to get at is why Isit only first having the rpos,there is other companies as well as first, I can honestly tell you and this is fact that the reason why first did away with them last time was because the card payments and the passes were scanned through the machine which made the rpos redundant, technology has come a long way including the ticket machines so why all of a sudden have they bought the rpos back, its just questions, and why has no other company brought the officers back First are being subsidised to provide £2 fares. £1 fares would not be subsidised. What do you think is wrong with the current weekly and longer season tickets to attract passengers? It's *really* hard to read your posts. Is there a chance you could read them through before posting so they're in compete sentences?
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Post by deerfold on Nov 18, 2023 13:53:41 GMT 1
It does seem to me there's a few members on here that are quite supportive of first bus, and I think i would be if they were cutting back my route and leaving gaps in services, yeah that's definitely quite good. I've not seen anyone say how good First are. Not agreeing with everything you say isn't the same as praising First.
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Post by deerfold on Nov 18, 2023 13:55:55 GMT 1
I agree with that, as you say they cutting services back at a time when people need them and then this, and same with someone posted earlier on in the thread too its as though when they get on the bus it makes u feel as though you have instantly done something wrong. Not a pleasant experience You keep saying this, but ignore questions about why it's an unpleasant experience (so long as you're not fare dodging). What makes it unpleasant? As I've said, I've had my bus ticket checked in cities around the world and thought little of it. On a train, I'd expect it to happen on most journeys. What makes it so much worse on a bus?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2023 14:11:18 GMT 1
If they did a flat fare round the city perimeter of £1 then £2 further out, but what I'm trying to get at is why Isit only first having the rpos,there is other companies as well as first, I can honestly tell you and this is fact that the reason why first did away with them last time was because the card payments and the passes were scanned through the machine which made the rpos redundant, technology has come a long way including the ticket machines so why all of a sudden have they bought the rpos back, its just questions, and why has no other company brought the officers back But that doesn't help people in the other areas of West Yorkshire especially as the county gets more Leeds focused meaning more people will require more than 1 bus to make a journey. But nobody seems to be answering as to why no other company has bought the officers back, but in my opinion I do think first bus as a whole is struggling, stagecoach serve a wider area of the UK, I've got 16 years of experience in this industry and I've read recently that first Bridgwater depot in Somerset has closed, a depot in Glasgow closed,both depots in Manchester closed leaving just oldham open, does anyone not think that maybe the reintroducing these officers is too little too late 1 Depot closed in Manchester (Rusholme), the others was sold (& now Oldhams sold to the 'Bee Network), what depot are you meaning in Glasgow? The last closure i can remember from that area was Parkhead in 2016 but that was replaced with the new Caledonia depot at the time. So seen as leeds is the only.city in the UK, some.people on here can't tell.me.why no.other company as not re started revenue officers, bus wise anyway, I no the do.it on trains but never stopped it apart.from.when covid were on I'm not sure what you mean by 'Leeds is the only city' - First already use them in Sheffield what is also a city. I Believe National Express West Midlands still have inspectors/RPOs that check tickets normally on the boundry of the 'City Fare' zone in Birmingham, plus I've had ticket inspections happen on both Stagecoach Merseyside & Manchester routes within the last 5 or so years (not sure if they still do it now).
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Post by deerfold on Nov 18, 2023 14:57:17 GMT 1
I'm not arguing with anyone I do agree I just wondered why it's only first that's starting the rpos and not any other big company but then again first are closing a lot of depots so.maybe they wanting to try and keep revenue, and yes some don't have licenses true, but I do see it as a waste of.money when them.resources could be better spent elsewhere, like running to realistic timetables but as.i say that's just my view I'm not gonna b discussing negative views anymore on this subject, maybe on alternative subjects but not this one First has won two franchise areas for Rochdale in Greater Manchester. Services start in March next year.
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Post by kayden11 on Nov 18, 2023 15:53:54 GMT 1
Yes they are all valid points as I say its all opinion I do.apologise if mine as come across a bit too strongly. But I do agree with pricel on this one because if I was driving a route and someone was genuinely struggling to.pay I'd free ride them as I'm human and hope someone would do it for me, however the driver would get the sack
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Nov 19, 2023 3:11:55 GMT 1
Just picture a first time user who has took advantage of a first day ticket or week pass or some sort, and they get approached on their very first trip.on a bus then the revenue inspectors get on the bus may make them.feel like goin back to the car or seeking alternatives If someone asking to see their valid ticket is that much of a problem then they really shouldn't be out on their own. Or get a grip and not be such a snowflake lol.
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Post by kayden11 on Nov 19, 2023 11:07:01 GMT 1
True exactly.i agree, I also sometimes as a driver myself assess the situation, if it is a young person that hasn't got a pass and ask for half, yes I let them on because I'm.led to believe your not allowed to throw a.vulnerable person off, I do.agree there is some.out there passengers out there will try it on all day long without a doubt, but in some instances where it could be a genuine reason regarding no.money or they have accidentally lost their money or phone, how.are they supposed to get home, I think common sense prevails here, but the rpos don't see it that way
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Post by stevieinselby on Nov 19, 2023 11:36:21 GMT 1
Just picture a first time user who has took advantage of a first day ticket or week pass or some sort, and they get approached on their very first trip.on a bus then the revenue inspectors get on the bus may make them.feel like goin back to the car or seeking alternatives If someone asking to see their valid ticket is that much of a problem then they really shouldn't be out on their own. Or get a grip and not be such a snowflake lol. I think the point is that some RPIs can go in with one heck of an attitude, especially when dealing with certain demographic groups. You see this on the trains sometimes in First Class when they go to challenge a person who they don't think belongs there.
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Post by kayden11 on Nov 19, 2023 12:27:00 GMT 1
Exactly and that's what I've been trying to get at, if someone has made a genuine mistake and they come across a rpo with a chip on his shoulder can come across as intimidating, but they seem.as though some attitudes are guilty until.we prove you.are guilty,
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Post by deerfold on Nov 19, 2023 19:52:14 GMT 1
Exactly and that's what I've been trying to get at, if someone has made a genuine mistake and they come across a rpo with a chip on his shoulder can come across as intimidating, but they seem.as though some attitudes are guilty until.we prove you.are guilty, Isn't it just as easy to have a bad experience with a rube bus driver? It depends, as so often, who they employ.
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Post by kayden11 on Nov 19, 2023 20:12:25 GMT 1
I do agree with that,I have though seen first hand in the past that a certain ticket inspector boarded a bus and checked the tickets, one person in board did genuinely not realise that the ticket wasn't for that area as it was a cross boundary service, the driver must habe forgot the person in question was on the bus, so the inspector made them get off the bus in front of 50 people and charged them a penalty notice, I do agree there is people who try it on, but then there's genuine mistakes, and it just seems as though someone will get fined 50 pound for making a genuine mistake, that's what I have been.getting at, and I admit I habe been very opinionated about this subject and I'm sorry if i have upset anyone because of this, but where do you.draw the line between a genuine human error or someone trying it on and overriding, it just feels like a.case of your.ticket not valid here thank you.for.travelling with first now here's a 50.pound fine, thenthe driver gets a disciplinary, surely there's got to be a better way if that's the case
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2023 20:20:28 GMT 1
I do agree with that,I have though seen first hand in the past that a certain ticket inspector boarded a bus and checked the tickets, one person in board did genuinely not realise that the ticket wasn't for that area as it was a cross boundary service, the driver must habe forgot the person in question was on the bus, so the inspector made them get off the bus in front of 50 people and charged them a penalty notice, I do agree there is people who try it on, but then there's genuine mistakes, and it just seems as though someone will get fined 50 pound for making a genuine mistake, that's what I have been.getting at, and I admit I habe been very opinionated about this subject and I'm sorry if i have upset anyone because of this, but where do you.draw the line between a genuine human error or someone trying it on and overriding, it just feels like a.case of your.ticket not valid here thank you.for.travelling with first now here's a 50.pound fine, thenthe driver gets a disciplinary, surely there's got to be a better way if that's the case Maybe the solution to that is having RPOs boarding the bus 15-20 Mins away from the border on cross county routes? So any passengers that have tickets for only 1 county can be 'reminded' before the border allowing them the chance to buy a valid ticket if they truthfully didn't realise, whilst them who are trying to pull a fast one will either have the chance to leave the bus or then get fined after the boundry point.
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Post by kayden11 on Nov 19, 2023 20:26:03 GMT 1
Yes that sounds better, I do hope the rpos will be friendly, and as someone pointed out on here, not with a bad atttitude
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mattb7tl
Forum Member
Streetlites 🛐
Posts: 743
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Post by mattb7tl on Nov 19, 2023 20:35:00 GMT 1
I'm more understanding of the choice now. I of course have a few concerns and gripes. I mean considering the metro puts the most funds forward towards the tickets, they are the only ones that should be protecting against the misuse of funds. I don't think first should be the ones to be fining and profiting of a misuse of funds that (mostly) aren't their own, especially with no mention of any of the revenue going back to the Metro or WYCA? I'm also of course concerned about the training of these officers. If their past and current train companies are anything to go by unpleasant conductors won't be a rarity.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2023 20:45:54 GMT 1
I'm more understanding of the choice now. I of course have a few concerns and gripes. I mean considering the metro puts the most funds forward towards the tickets, they are the only ones that should be protecting against the misuse of funds. I don't think first should be the ones to be fining and profiting of a misuse of funds that (mostly) aren't their own, especially with no mention of any of the revenue going back to the Metro or WYCA? I'm also of course also concerned about the training of these officers. If their past and current train companies are anything to go by unpleasant conductors won't be a rarity. It depends, if it's most misuse is via the Firstbus APP then Metro could put some blame onto them. When it comes to Dayriders it is First that stands to loose the most as I'm guessing they only get to keep part of the £4.50 for a Metro Day rather than the full amount of First Dayrider, so for example if someone travels to Oldham on a Metro ticket First might only get £3 rather than £4.50
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Post by stantheman on Nov 19, 2023 22:44:28 GMT 1
I can’t see any issue with this. If you’ve got a valid ticket why are you complaining? There should also be more revenue protection on the railways, there seems to be a mindset even in professional people, that the railways are fair game and you should try and not pay if you can get away with it In that case, we have vastly different experiences with conductors. I absolutely loved being talked down to on a rush hour train because they decided to do an unannounced ticket check just before we entered the tunnel from Greenfield to Marsden. I couldn't load Trainline, and the conductor started ranting at me and accusing me of not having a ticket. It's dehumanising and most people I know who commute share similar experiences. I don't want this to happen on buses and that is totally valid. Sounds like you’re the problem tbh!
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Post by dlspotter on Nov 19, 2023 22:54:36 GMT 1
I think a big difference between bus RPOs and train RPOs is the opportunity to buy a ticket as you are getting on the bus, whereas on trains this is no longer an option (unless you get an absolutely useless promise to pay which does nothing more than just waste a bit of paper) Slightly related but offtopic, but if buses were to remove the option to buy tickets onboard (which some European cities have) this would increase the issues where: o People may be confused about what ticket to buy -> buy wrong ticket -> be fined o Those who don't/can't use computers/phones to buy tickets online are more restricted from travel as certainly they won't put ticket machines at every bus stop o Reduces the opportunity for ad-hoc travel which would reduce ridership (especially on weekends)
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