First to Introduce Revenue Protection Officers

[mattb7tl]

I find this to be an extremely wasteful decision. It's amazing you see the management complain about costs and then proceed to create even higher costs for an issue that doesn't exist, but I guess congratulations on making taking the bus feel even more hostile?

[smithy]

They all ready is in south Yorkshire with all the tickets for single and day tickets the same I don't know why there are doing it

[wibble]

Nov 16, 2023 14:27:16 GMT 1 mattb7tl said:

I find this to be an extremely wasteful decision. It's amazing you see the management complain about costs and then proceed to create even higher costs for an issue that doesn't exist, but I guess congratulations on making taking the bus feel even more hostile?

Think it's more the amazing amount of U19 / Student fares that you can buy & scan without ID or the opportunity to be questioned by the driver. Especially as they're advised not to leave the cab, or be confrontational.

[mattb7tl]

Nov 16, 2023 14:52:03 GMT 1 wibble said:

Nov 16, 2023 14:27:16 GMT 1 mattb7tl said:

I find this to be an extremely wasteful decision. It's amazing you see the management complain about costs and then proceed to create even higher costs for an issue that doesn't exist, but I guess congratulations on making taking the bus feel even more hostile?

Think it's more the amazing amount of U19 / Student fares that you can buy & scan without ID or the opportunity to be questioned by the driver. Especially as they're advised not to leave the cab, or be confrontational.

Don't they get fully repaid for the U19, along with student tickets?

[deerfold]

Nov 16, 2023 15:08:00 GMT 1 mattb7tl said:

Nov 16, 2023 14:52:03 GMT 1 wibble said:

Think it's more the amazing amount of U19 / Student fares that you can buy & scan without ID or the opportunity to be questioned by the driver. Especially as they're advised not to leave the cab, or be confrontational.

Don't they get fully repaid for the U19, along with student tickets?

WYCA pay 1/3 of the fare on top of the 1/2 fare paid at the time (see schedule 3b below), so they're down by 16% on the adult fare. Unless it's suspicious that there seem to be a lot more young people on one operator and it can then reduce its payments unless the operator can provide proof they're correct (Section 3.2 below).

www.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/media/1302/policy-travel-concession-scheme-april-2017.pdf


Student MCards and fares are provided commercially.

[wibble]

Nov 16, 2023 15:08:00 GMT 1 mattb7tl said:

Nov 16, 2023 14:52:03 GMT 1 wibble said:

Think it's more the amazing amount of U19 / Student fares that you can buy & scan without ID or the opportunity to be questioned by the driver. Especially as they're advised not to leave the cab, or be confrontational.

Don't they get fully repaid for the U19, along with student tickets?

As above they don't, and even if they did it doesn't make it right or fair.

Time will tell if it's cost effective, for it to be expanded from South Yorkshire suggests it was down there.

[mattb7tl]

Thanks
In that case it is kind of understandable but I don't think it is worth it. I avoid trains for this very reason, the conductors are always on smoke and assume the worst in people. Dehumanising experience.

[steve440]

How many passengers do you see getting their ticket and then throwing it straight in the bin!

[mattb7tl]

Nov 16, 2023 17:50:08 GMT 1 steve440 said:

How many passengers do you see getting their ticket and then throwing it straight in the bin!

Too many.
I imagine a good few will be made embarrassed when they have to search through a bin to avoid a £50 fine!

[39231]

but how does that work with tap on and tap off without a ticket

[mattb7tl]

Nov 16, 2023 18:30:11 GMT 1 39231 said:

but how does that work with tap on and tap off without a ticket

Metrolink conductors tap your card or phone with their device to see whether you're tapped in or not

[smithy]

Nov 16, 2023 18:23:32 GMT 1 mattb7tl said:

Nov 16, 2023 17:50:08 GMT 1 steve440 said:

How many passengers do you see getting their ticket and then throwing it straight in the bin!

Too many.
I imagine a good few will be made embarrassed when they have to search through a bin to avoid a £50 fine!

I wouldn't provide it let them fine you let them spend the money with a solicitor then suddenly provide it

[westyorkshirebus]

I can’t see any issue with this. If you’ve got a valid ticket why are you complaining?

There should also be more revenue protection on the railways, there seems to be a mindset even in professional people, that the railways are fair game and you should try and not pay if you can get away with it

[jxke_0731]

Just to add my 5p to this, with the U19 and U26 tickets, they will most likely ask for proof of age (M card), no one really carries their M Card's with them, it's just a pointless exercise and a massive waste of money this move.

[deerfold]

Nov 16, 2023 17:49:51 GMT 1 mattb7tl said:

Thanks
In that case it is kind of understandable but I don't think it is worth it. I avoid trains for this very reason, the conductors are always on smoke and assume the worst in people. Dehumanising experience.

I travel by train regularly. Most of the guards are very friendly. But they do want to see your ticket. That doesn't seem unreasonable.

[deerfold]

Nov 16, 2023 17:50:08 GMT 1 steve440 said:

How many passengers do you see getting their ticket and then throwing it straight in the bin!

Very few. Seems odd behaviour.

[deerfold]

Nov 16, 2023 18:58:31 GMT 1 smithy said:

Nov 16, 2023 18:23:32 GMT 1 mattb7tl said:

Too many.
I imagine a good few will be made embarrassed when they have to search through a bin to avoid a £50 fine!

I wouldn't provide it let them fine you let them spend the money with a solicitor then suddenly provide it

That sounds to be an enormous waste of your and their time and your money.

[mattb7tl]

Nov 16, 2023 19:13:43 GMT 1 westyorkshirebus said:

I can’t see any issue with this. If you’ve got a valid ticket why are you complaining?

There should also be more revenue protection on the railways, there seems to be a mindset even in professional people, that the railways are fair game and you should try and not pay if you can get away with it

In that case, we have vastly different experiences with conductors. 
I absolutely loved being talked down to on a rush hour train because they decided to do an unannounced ticket check just before we entered the tunnel from Greenfield to Marsden. I couldn't load Trainline, and the conductor started ranting at me and accusing me of not having a ticket.
It's dehumanising and most people I know who commute share similar experiences. I don't want this to happen on buses and that is totally valid.

[deerfold]

Nov 16, 2023 19:32:30 GMT 1 jxke_0731 said:

Just to add my 5p to this, with the U19 and U26 tickets, they will most likely ask for proof of age (M card), no one really carries their M Card's with them, it's just a pointless exercise and a massive waste of money this move.

Why don't they carry them with them? I managed to carry the pre-smartcard equivalents for 7 years from 11 to 18.5. If they can't be bothered to carry them (and are not in school uniform) they shouldn't expect the lower fares.

[deerfold]

Nov 16, 2023 19:45:11 GMT 1 mattb7tl said:

Nov 16, 2023 19:13:43 GMT 1 westyorkshirebus said:

I can’t see any issue with this. If you’ve got a valid ticket why are you complaining?

There should also be more revenue protection on the railways, there seems to be a mindset even in professional people, that the railways are fair game and you should try and not pay if you can get away with it

In that case, we have vastly different experiences with conductors. 
I absolutely loved being talked down to on a rush hour train because they decided to do an unannounced ticket check just before we entered the tunnel from Greenfield to Marsden. I couldn't load Trainline, and the conductor started ranting at me and accusing me of not having a ticket.
It's dehumanising and most people I know who commute share similar experiences. I don't want this to happen on buses and that is totally valid.

I find it useful to have the ticket ready to show. You should just be able to have a PDF on your phone. If that doesn't work well with your phone, you could print the ticket out in advance.

Occasionally you do find an unpleasant conductor, but I find them to be the minority.

[joseph]

I can't see why people on here are objecting, buy a ticket and show the dam thing on demand to a person in authority, simples! This will stop the chavvy scroats who hide behind someone and sneak on in busy areas such as Hell Isle in Leeds. If these Revenue Protection officers can clamp down on shoddy behaviour such as feet on seats, vaping on the bus, dropping litter on the bus, eating disgusting take away items on the bus etc then that's a bonus. Call me harsh, call me a snob but you really do get a better class of customer on the Park and Ride services

[Deleted]

Nov 16, 2023 19:45:11 GMT 1 mattb7tl said:

Nov 16, 2023 19:13:43 GMT 1 westyorkshirebus said:

I can’t see any issue with this. If you’ve got a valid ticket why are you complaining?

There should also be more revenue protection on the railways, there seems to be a mindset even in professional people, that the railways are fair game and you should try and not pay if you can get away with it

In that case, we have vastly different experiences with conductors. 
I absolutely loved being talked down to on a rush hour train because they decided to do an unannounced ticket check just before we entered the tunnel from Greenfield to Marsden. I couldn't load Trainline, and the conductor started ranting at me and accusing me of not having a ticket.
It's dehumanising and most people I know who commute share similar experiences. I don't want this to happen on buses and that is totally valid.

Have conductors ever announced they are about to start ticket checks, I thought it was just a given that after leaving a station the conductor might start doing one. I Will agree with you TPE ones do seem to be less forgiven over lack of mobile signal for APPs compared to Northern (possibly as their tickets tend to be more expensive so are more protective over loss revenue, or because all TPEs are meant to have WIFI?). Normally if it hasn't already been checked I'll load the ticket up on the APP just before heading into the tunnel as most APPs let them scan the ticket offline.

If given the right training I think the 'officers' (when did the name change from just ticket inspectors happen?) should be able to do checks without being dehumanising & overall could be a positive - personally I know someone at my work who's early 20s but due to looking younger they still get away with buying U19 tickets & like to make jokes about it, so wouldn't mind them being caught out.

[Deleted]

Nov 16, 2023 20:07:00 GMT 1 joseph said:

I can't see why people on here are objecting, buy a ticket and show the dam thing on demand to a person in authority, simples! This will stop the chavvy scroats who hide behind someone and sneak on in busy areas such as Hell Isle in Leeds. If these Revenue Protection officers can clamp down on shoddy behaviour such as feet on seats, vaping on the bus, dropping litter on the bus, eating disgusting take away items on the bus etc then that's a bonus. Call me harsh, call me a snob but you really do get a better class of customer on the Park and Ride services

Going by the fact they've been called 'Revenue Protection' officers I think the BIB you listed won't come under their remit.

[stephen01]

Nov 16, 2023 20:09:45 GMT 1 @cp2012 said:

Nov 16, 2023 19:45:11 GMT 1 mattb7tl said:

In that case, we have vastly different experiences with conductors. 
I absolutely loved being talked down to on a rush hour train because they decided to do an unannounced ticket check just before we entered the tunnel from Greenfield to Marsden. I couldn't load Trainline, and the conductor started ranting at me and accusing me of not having a ticket.
It's dehumanising and most people I know who commute share similar experiences. I don't want this to happen on buses and that is totally valid.

Have conductors ever announced they are about to start ticket checks, I thought it was just a given that after leaving a station the conductor might start doing one. I Will agree with you TPE ones do seem to be less forgiven over lack of mobile signal for APPs compared to Northern (possibly as their tickets tend to be more expensive so are more protective over loss revenue, or because all TPEs are meant to have WIFI?). Normally if it hasn't already been checked I'll load the ticket up on the APP just before heading into the tunnel as most APPs let them scan the ticket offline.

If given the right training I think the 'officers' (when did the name change from just ticket inspectors happen?) should be able to do checks without being dehumanising & overall could be a positive - personally I know someone at my work who's early 20s but due to looking younger they still get away with buying U19 tickets & like to make jokes about it, so wouldn't mind them being caught out.

when there used to be regular Metro Ticket inspectors board on certain services say the 126 for example they'd board Dewsbury and travel the entire route and if you had an Mcard, the old photocards or even the old dayrover scratch cards then you HAD to have that and they'd scan it and they'd confirm with you where you boarded and where you intended to get off. But the last time i was on a bus with an inspector get on was well before Covid (i recall it been when the X6 still ran Leeds-Bradford-Huddersfield).

[deerfold]

Nov 16, 2023 20:09:45 GMT 1 @cp2012 said:

Nov 16, 2023 19:45:11 GMT 1 mattb7tl said:

In that case, we have vastly different experiences with conductors. 
I absolutely loved being talked down to on a rush hour train because they decided to do an unannounced ticket check just before we entered the tunnel from Greenfield to Marsden. I couldn't load Trainline, and the conductor started ranting at me and accusing me of not having a ticket.
It's dehumanising and most people I know who commute share similar experiences. I don't want this to happen on buses and that is totally valid.

Have conductors ever announced they are about to start ticket checks, I thought it was just a given that after leaving a station the conductor might start doing one. I Will agree with you TPE ones do seem to be less forgiven over lack of mobile signal for APPs compared to Northern (possibly as their tickets tend to be more expensive so are more protective over loss revenue, or because all TPEs are meant to have WIFI?). Normally if it hasn't already been checked I'll load the ticket up on the APP just before heading into the tunnel as most APPs let them scan the ticket offline.

You can download the tickets to your phone - there's no need to use an app after you've seen the guard. If travelling with my wife I'll usually download them and Whatsapp them to her so we've both got them. Whoever isn't showing them opens the Railcard app to show that (that only needs to connect once every few days).