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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Nov 16, 2023 21:57:54 GMT 1
Regarding U19/Student tickets, the terms and conditions on the app state that they are only valid when paired with an Under 19 mCard. Personally I don't say anything if they are in uniform but when you get people getting on with more facial hair than me wanting half fare then no they can pay full fare. Same when they get on and ask for a day ticket and then complain when I say £4.50 then seem surprised when I say "I don't know how old you are do I?".
In addition to the route I definitely don't drive (definitely not the 590) the child fares in GM are now only valid with an iGO card and the "No iGO" option on the ticket machine has been removed which was around 2/3 of the adult fare.
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Post by dlspotter on Nov 16, 2023 22:29:10 GMT 1
I think that in cases where it's a really busy bus and pax are getting on thinking they'll go unnoticed or acting as if someone else is buying their ticket is something that should be cracked down on.
People getting on with single tickets and then traveling beyond the stop they said they were going to get off at really isn't an issue nowadays with all singles costing the same. I travel often on routes with driver changes where occasionally my ticket is only valid to one place yet I am going further, and I sometimes become concerned that if the new driver were to suddenly (but extremely unlikely in this country) check tickets that I might get kicked off because I traveled beyond where the ticket is valid to despite specifying to the driver where I was going (I understand drivers may do this instead of scrolling all the way to the intended destination)
I see this may be useful at 'border stops' e.g. on the 184, 590, 591 and 592 to prevent people crossing into Lancs or GM with MCard tickets, but I think having revenue officers sitting on a bus all day waiting to 'catch' passengers will just be a waste of resources
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Post by kayden11 on Nov 16, 2023 23:00:29 GMT 1
Yep it is a way of first trying to.cover up how much mess their in financial wise to have to re introduce revenue officers, funny how arriva don't have any amd the small independents don't have any and stagecoach inspectors out on the road covering duties, so let's give first a round of applause, let's stand a service so we can waste resources on the revenue officers, no wonder why they closing one of the Somerset depots
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Post by kayden11 on Nov 16, 2023 23:04:19 GMT 1
At least arriva have the decency to put the company up for sale but good old first, trying to battle it out when they have been struggling for years, which does remind me, next time I'm stood in white rose for a 47 or bradford or a 72 that doesn't. Turn up I must remember to think mmmm what are the revenue officers doing at the moment. I wonder whether they would.like to drive the missing 72 or 47 thats not running
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Post by yorkslad on Nov 16, 2023 23:11:49 GMT 1
In that case, we have vastly different experiences with conductors. I absolutely loved being talked down to on a rush hour train because they decided to do an unannounced ticket check just before we entered the tunnel from Greenfield to Marsden. I couldn't load Trainline, and the conductor started ranting at me and accusing me of not having a ticket. It's dehumanising and most people I know who commute share similar experiences. I don't want this to happen on buses and that is totally valid. Have conductors ever announced they are about to start ticket checks, I thought it was just a given that after leaving a station the conductor might start doing one. I Will agree with you TPE ones do seem to be less forgiven over lack of mobile signal for APPs compared to Northern (possibly as their tickets tend to be more expensive so are more protective over loss revenue, or because all TPEs are meant to have WIFI?). Normally if it hasn't already been checked I'll load the ticket up on the APP just before heading into the tunnel as most APPs let them scan the ticket offline. If given the right training I think the 'officers' (when did the name change from just ticket inspectors happen?) should be able to do checks without being dehumanising & overall could be a positive - personally I know someone at my work who's early 20s but due to looking younger they still get away with buying U19 tickets & like to make jokes about it, so wouldn't mind them being caught out. Yes, all the time on the trains I'm on, especially if there's a change of crew (Sheffield, usually). Usually with a "All tickets and passes please" shout as they enter a new carriage or section. And, some people do have their tickets (and railcards) ready - why the two can't be combined I knoweth not.
RP staff aren't the same as the old inspectors (I lost my ticket once on a school bus home when an inspector boarded, have never done so since), but it's a start.
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Nov 17, 2023 0:00:23 GMT 1
TPE has an automated announcement, but it seems to rarely play. Sometimes drivers will say it towards the end of the speech when setting off from any of the main stations like Manchester, Huddersfield, and Leeds. First WY isn't a struggling operation. Aren't several of the depots some of the best performing out of the entire company? Especially Leeds, and Halifax?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2023 0:15:14 GMT 1
TPE has an automated announcement, but it seems to rarely play. Sometimes drivers will say it towards the end of the speech when setting off from any of the main stations like Manchester, Huddersfield, and Leeds. First WY isn't a struggling operation. Aren't several of the depots some of the best performing out of the entire company? Especially Leeds, and Halifax? First West Yorks have taken a hit to the profits with Glasgow regaining top position (on the latest accounts Glasgow had a combined profit of £4.2m,West Yorks dropping to 2.9m from 8.2m the previous year) so the drop in profits might be a reason for the introduction of these officers.
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Post by deerfold on Nov 17, 2023 0:19:54 GMT 1
TPE has an automated announcement, but it seems to rarely play. Sometimes drivers will say it towards the end of the speech when setting off from any of the main stations like Manchester, Huddersfield, and Leeds. First WY isn't a struggling operation. Aren't several of the depots some of the best performing out of the entire company? Especially Leeds, and Halifax? It gives the impression of a struggling operator. Many routes are being cut back all over West Yorkshire, with many finishing by 10 in Bradford and Halifax. Having had the misfortune of using a few of their services this week as well as my usual Transdev services they seem to have a lot of missing buses and large gaps in frequent services.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Nov 17, 2023 10:24:15 GMT 1
This is now just a generic ‘moan about First’ thread
I’m sure if First had revenue officers and they’d announced they were scrapping them, the same people would complain just in the opposite direction
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Post by stevieinselby on Nov 17, 2023 11:35:50 GMT 1
I can’t see any issue with this. If you’ve got a valid ticket why are you complaining? There should also be more revenue protection on the railways, there seems to be a mindset even in professional people, that the railways are fair game and you should try and not pay if you can get away with it My only niggle about First Bus doing this is just how much of a problem ticketless travel is on buses, and whether it's a pretext for something else. I can understand that, in ye olden dayes, before the maximum fare was £2, that there might be a lot of people on longer distance buses buying a ticket to a few stops away and then travelling well beyond that, but even before the fare cap First buses in Yorkshire didn't generally have such long routes and high fares that that would appear to be a problem, it's not like Transdev or East Yorkshire where a single ticket could be £10 or more on a long route. But maybe they have good reason to believe that there are a lot of passengers who are dodging the full fares and drivers are not challenging them (as indeed they are advised not to, that isn't a criticism) ... but you are going to have to have a lot of people underpaying or not paying to justify the cost of deploying enough RPIs on buses to act as a deterrent.
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kendall17
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Post by kendall17 on Nov 17, 2023 12:26:31 GMT 1
Have the notices been placed on buses advising of the standard fare (£50)
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Post by deerfold on Nov 17, 2023 13:49:05 GMT 1
Have the notices been placed on buses advising of the standard fare (£50) Have they ever been taken off?
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BusNut
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Post by BusNut on Nov 17, 2023 14:07:52 GMT 1
They've been operating in South Yorkshire for around 6 months now and apparently, so I hear, they've already covered more than double the wages in terms of fraudulent tickets etc.
SY was a hotspot, in particular North Sheffield for major fraud with contactless payments. One of the reasons all weekly/monthly tickets, for both FirstGroup and the wider multi-operator ticketing (SY Travelmaster) are now cash only.
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kendall17
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Post by kendall17 on Nov 17, 2023 14:42:21 GMT 1
Have the notices been placed on buses advising of the standard fare (£50) Have they ever been taken off? Not seen one for some time, howver need to be prominent if they're going to start issuing them.
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lucyp
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Post by lucyp on Nov 17, 2023 15:06:48 GMT 1
There are some bizarre comments on here from people with strange attitudes! Effective debt collection and theft prevention are not signs of a failing business at all. They are signs that a business is being properly run. You don't have a business if your customers are not paying you, or are defrauding you.
Inspectors were the norm in the past for a reason. As BusNut has commented with regard to South Yorkshire, they more than pay for themselves. That shows the extent of the dishonesty problem.
No doubt they will be used on selective routes at certain times of the day. There is little point in using them when the bus is full of OAPs who have no incentive to cheat.
I understand how people can cheat using an online ticket to which they are not entitled. I presume that is where the problem lies. If you pay cash, then you have to interact with the driver. If you use a card, then on every First Bus that I have used, you tap on at the ticket machine in front of the driver. Are people really just walking past, sticking 2 fingers up to the driver, not paying, and the driver is just allowing that?
Is tapping off still even relevant? It seemed to work initially and then latterly, nothing has happened when I have presented my card to tap off. Doesn't it just charge £2 when you tap on anyway?
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Post by dlspotter on Nov 17, 2023 16:10:43 GMT 1
Is tapping off still even relevant? It seemed to work initially and then latterly, nothing has happened when I have presented my card to tap off. Doesn't it just charge £2 when you tap on anyway? Just to address this point (even though it rarely applies) it is essential to tap off on certain cross-boundary routes or where urban fare zones apply (to be able to be capped at the appropriate day ticket rate if you are taking multiple buses in the day within one re), or if you are travelling only a short distance. If the tap off device isn't working I usually tap off on the ticket machine I tapped on with - sometimes to a grumpy comment from the driver that you 'don't need to tap off' - a habit that I got into before they introduced the £2 cap where occasionally if you didn't tap off it would charge that journey as a single separate to any other trips
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Post by deerfold on Nov 17, 2023 17:13:49 GMT 1
I wonder what rights they actually have to change the Standard Fare.
It's not like the railways where there's specific law on fare evading and where they can prosecute their own cases.
I'm not sure they could do much other than ban someone from their buses.
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kendall17
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Justice for the 96!
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Post by kendall17 on Nov 17, 2023 19:09:06 GMT 1
I wonder what rights they actually have to change the Standard Fare. It's not like the railways where there's specific law on fare evading and where's they can prosecute their own cases. I'm not sure they could do much other than ban someone from their buses. I was thinking about this & where they would stand with the enforcement of it. As you say, no bye-laws like the railways but conditions of carriage, which definitely need to be made readily available for all.
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Post by kayden11 on Nov 17, 2023 19:15:23 GMT 1
I have noticed in South Yorkshire they hold the bus up.for 5 minutes while they are checking which is a fantastic idea,so I hope the drivers take their full breaks and not run their second trip due to that fact, remember fares come first running times come second, so it's beneficial for a company in that respect and the revenue officers have seen a double in wages, just not for the driver but at least it keeps the shareholders happy
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Post by kayden11 on Nov 17, 2023 19:17:30 GMT 1
That's why I don't personally think they are a good idea, because while they checking tickets they could be covering a duty while we have still.got the driver shortage too
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Nov 17, 2023 19:38:55 GMT 1
That's why I don't personally think they are a good idea, because while they checking tickets they could be covering a duty while we have still.got the driver shortage too how when they don't have a bus licence? They're ex coppers.
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Post by kayden11 on Nov 17, 2023 19:59:31 GMT 1
The south yorkshire revenue officers are ex drivers,west yorkshire may be different but never see then.on the road covering duties, and plus the coppers seem to be more scared of the public now as there is no justice system in the UK, without goin off topic I do understand that first must THINK it's a good idea to preserve the revenue, but really while the 2 pound fare cap is on it doesn't matter where u get off lol
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Post by kayden11 on Nov 17, 2023 20:01:11 GMT 1
Arriva and stagecoach revenue officers are actually out on the road driving covering runs because of the driver shortage, clearly first see it from a different view
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Nov 17, 2023 20:05:25 GMT 1
This is now just a generic ‘moan about First’ thread I’m sure if First had revenue officers and they’d announced they were scrapping them, the same people would complain just in the opposite direction So is it wrong to have an opinion?
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Nov 17, 2023 20:08:26 GMT 1
I don't understand why money is being wasted on these officers. This is not London, there is not a back door to sneak on the bus. It is pretty much impossible to sneak on a bus!
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