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Post by dougie on Apr 23, 2008 19:00:56 GMT 1
The 61 is a busy route, they won't change that in a hurry!! Only change I can possibly see in the near future is replacement of the darts with bigger buses. (1 board is now actually rostered for a dual door double deck) What are the main passenger flows on the 61? City Centre to Holbeck area obviously carries a few. But most of the rest of the areas it serves (Beeston/ Hunslet etc) have direct overground services, so I can't see many using a half hourly bus that goes "round the houses", apart from a direct link to the Infirmary. Similarly, the Hospital traffic at the St James' end must take a few passengers, but what other "flows" are there on it? My idea was to merge it with the 86 to provide a Bramley - Armley - Holbeck - Beeston - Hunslet - St James' service every half hour, and maybe use the spare resources to provide a "46A" along Whitehall Road (White Rose via Beeston Hill?), maintaining the 10 minute frequency out of town. Similarly, what are the main flows on the 86? It's a direct link to Armley Prison from South Leeds, but for most of it's route it shadows Overground services without actualy serving the City Centre - it's exactly the kind of route that First have "rationalised" in other cities. (sorry for asking so many questions!)
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Post by Craig on Apr 23, 2008 19:43:57 GMT 1
The 61 and 86's key role (also other services such as 38 and 91) is to provide a link between areas of Leeds. You are right that they run in areas that have Overground services, but please remember that every passenger does not wish to travel to the city centre.
For example the 61 provides direct links between the suburbs of Holbeck, Beeston, Hunslet, East End Park and Harehills, therefore any passengers wishing to make a journey between any of these places can do so easily. Merging the 61 and 86 as you say would remove the longstanding direct links between say Middleton and Armley/Bramley.
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Post by dougie on Apr 23, 2008 20:09:57 GMT 1
The 61 and 86's key role (also other services such as 38 and 91) is to provide a link between areas of Leeds. You are right that they run in areas that have Overground services, but please remember that every passenger does not wish to travel to the city centre. For example the 61 provides direct links between the suburbs of Holbeck, Beeston, Hunslet, East End Park and Harehills, therefore any passengers wishing to make a journey between any of these places can do so easily. Merging the 61 and 86 as you say would remove the longstanding direct links between say Middleton and Armley/Bramley. Cheers. At least with the 38/91 there's some obvious flows, such as the link to Headingley and the White Rose Centre (presumably two of the main destinations, apart from the City Centre and St James'), especially the link to the Student residences at Kirkstall. Without the city centre traffic, these services must be pretty marginal, unless they serve something like a Hospital or Prison I suppose... Since the 81/82 have effectively been run down, as well as the eastern end of the old 38, I wondered what the future was for the 61 and 86.
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Post by Craig on Apr 23, 2008 20:19:41 GMT 1
They don't need some focal point like a hospital (though this does help boost traffic) - people need to travel between different areas for work and leisure.
The 61 has already been reduced to only run part of the old City Circle (for good reason - the other '62' half of the route gets little traffic). The 86 always seems busy along most of the route, and the 38/91 certainly seem busy across the main parts of the route (Armley/Pudsey/Bramley - Kirkstall - Moortown/Chapel A). But if you are wondering what may be the next to chop, the 38 doesn't do so well south of Armley, and I don't know how well the 91 is used to and from Halton Moor.
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Post by jackh on Apr 23, 2008 21:15:51 GMT 1
I find the 38 a useful bus as I live along Stonegate Road which the bus servces, handy for getting up to Moortown Corner or Headingley which takes about 5 minutes compared to 50 minute trip to Leeds on the 51 and whatever bus out!
Is the half hourly frequency is necassary on a Sunday for the 91 though? I know First boosted the frequency of this some time ago to compete with the Black Prince Sunday tender 38 between Shaw Lane and Kirkstall Bridge. However First took control of the 38 some time ago from Black Prince so the 91's enhancement is no longer needed. Or the frequency remaining is due to Metro subsidy?
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Post by Craig on Apr 23, 2008 22:27:22 GMT 1
The 91 was always a 30-minute service evenings and Sundays, however a few years ago the evening frequency dropped to hourly, therefore it must have been deemed that half-hourly was still appropriate for Sunday daytimes, either due to commercial viability or Metro tendering.
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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Apr 24, 2008 14:42:55 GMT 1
I have just suddenly realised that Sainsbury's at the White Rose is closer, however I still believe the direct service 76 from the Upper section of Dewsbury Road would still be popular due to the popularity of Morrisons within south Leeds. Please bear in mind that Sainsbury's is more expensive than Morrisons, hence one big reason for it's popularity. Whatever happens to the 76 one thing is for sure, it needs changing!
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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Apr 24, 2008 14:57:17 GMT 1
The main reason for service 86 is to connect areas that just about justify a connecting service, however wouldn't work as seperate services on their own. For example you get people usng the service to travel from Middleton, Hunslet and Belle Isle to Beeston and Holbeck. You also get people traveling from Beeston and Holbeck to Armley, people from Holbeck and Armley to Bramley. You may at times get people traveling through more of the above areas on the route, and even using the whole route as an alternative to changing in Leeds. One half hourly service would serve peoples needs whilst maintaining profits, unlike several shorter half hourly services which may require more buses and drivers, hence more costs. The route as a whole must make a profit, and must be seen as a useful customer service tool otherwise first would have axed part or all of the route.
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Post by nick on Apr 24, 2008 15:39:32 GMT 1
I agree that the 86 is a good route. The reason been it connects Middleton and Surrounding areas with the Holdbeck and Surrounding areas as well as Armley with surrounding areas. When it used to operate to White Rose it lost custom because of the long route round to bramley and people would prefer to board the 9 and 711. But now would it again be profitable for it to extend from Middleton to White Rose and From Bramley to Pudsey??
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Post by jackh on Apr 24, 2008 16:07:32 GMT 1
Well you will be looking at an extra two or three buses needed for the extensions. Don't forget you have the 87/87A and 9 run between Middleton and White Rose so would doubling the frequency be necessary?
Where would the Bramley-Pudsey extension run via because the 16 and 91 also run between the two places so is that extension viable then?
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Post by nick on Apr 25, 2008 16:52:16 GMT 1
Personally i wouldnt mind them Branding the 97 as a uni linkas it connects the Universty with Trinty & Saints!!!!
What does everyone think???
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Post by Craig on Apr 25, 2008 17:45:25 GMT 1
That your ideas are ridiculous.
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Post by jackh on Apr 25, 2008 18:12:56 GMT 1
I don't think the 97 would ever become a Uni Link route even though it serves TASC at Horsforth. The idea for Unilink routes is that it provides the service for students so they use that rather than the other service buses along the Headingley/University corridor.
I don't think passengers on the 1, 96 etc were keen on loads of students getting on further down route etc.
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Post by nick on Apr 28, 2008 17:17:35 GMT 1
Due to the none use of the Yellow and Green line overground colours in Leeds should two current overground services now become those Colours.
37 from Beige to Yellow and 33/33A from Light Green to Green
Thoughts!!
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Post by jackh on Apr 28, 2008 17:42:35 GMT 1
For a change, that is a reasonable thought Nick. But yes would be nice for the obscure colours like them to be replaced!
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revol
Forum Member
Posts: 49
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Post by revol on Apr 28, 2008 18:21:19 GMT 1
It does seem a bit silly now having a Light Green Line but not a Green Line.
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Post by nick on Apr 29, 2008 15:53:47 GMT 1
Why do we have all these obscure colours. If we look at Bradford's overground network that should be a example to all the other First companys all over the conutry.
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Post by jackh on Apr 29, 2008 18:46:45 GMT 1
Why do we have all these obscure colours. If we look at Bradford's overground network that should be a example to all the other First companys all over the conutry. Yes, but Bradford only have seven OverGround routes so can use the standard colours and not more odd ones like Magenta etc etc.
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Post by nick on Apr 29, 2008 18:52:16 GMT 1
Very true but now we can have got Green And Yellow line to play with why dont they get rid of the wired colours such as Beige,Light Green,Sky Line
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Post by jackh on Apr 29, 2008 18:52:41 GMT 1
So your replacing three colours with two?
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Post by nick on Apr 29, 2008 19:00:12 GMT 1
No i am saying two of those colours could be replaced by Green and Yellow. and also asking where the hell did the Sky Line come from. I think that that is best sutied to a airport bus not the 96??
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Post by jackh on Apr 29, 2008 19:06:42 GMT 1
Well no, not really as 757 will never become an every 10 minute service as it is a contracted route!
If it was given that colour, Manchester Airport may quibble over it as their network of buses to the airport is branded as that!
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Post by Craig on Apr 29, 2008 19:13:43 GMT 1
My understanding is that the explanation given for the 96 Sky Line's name was rather tenuously because it passes the famous Skyrack pub...
I agree Leeds has some odd colour choices (and we have discussed this before), but they do have 15 overground routes to come up with colours for (I am excluding the 4 which is now colourless).
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Post by huddsinfo on Apr 29, 2008 23:27:52 GMT 1
On the Gems, the new Huddersfield purple lines 181 - 185 are displaying via the old 350 route or via previous 351 route etc under the destination
At least this eases the confusion....people are not always aware of changes.....no matter how much advertising is done!
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Post by huddsinfo on Apr 29, 2008 23:37:08 GMT 1
Sorry I meant on the Eclipse Urbans and the Gems in the post above
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