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Post by nick on Apr 13, 2008 14:23:42 GMT 1
I though it went through cottingley must be wrong. Oh well the 87 can go into cottingley. The 55 could be withdrawn to make it simpler that is where the 3/3A come in. Because they run evenings and Sundays it is better to extend them into cottingley to make it a simpler on Monday to Friday daytimes. That way there is that every 10 minute frequency between Leeds and Cottingley plus the hourly or half hourly link from the 87.
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Post by jackh on Apr 13, 2008 14:37:08 GMT 1
The thing is the 3/3A doesn't cover all of the Cottingley estate! There is nothing wrong with the daytime 55 service, just have a half hourly evenings/Sundays service provided rather than three Overground routes deviating to cover various sections of the 55.
The Sunday link between Cottingley and White Rose could be maintained by an extension of the 87A to Cottingley from White Rose. However that would hash up its interworking with the 5 on Sundays.
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Post by nick on Apr 13, 2008 14:41:22 GMT 1
55 should be cut down to every half hour that is freeing up two buses. The Number 1 is totally withdrawn from cottingley estate and instead terminates at beeston. 55 could run evenings and Sundays via the M621(Replacing the 51/51A which now go via Holdbeck) every hour and could inter work with another service in Leeds.
What could happen is the 55 terminate at Cottingley and gets a extension at Leeds maybe to Woodhouse Ridge or Headingley (Old 63 route springs to mind) and run every Half Hour and only runs between Cottingley and Leeds on Sundays and Evenings.
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Post by jackh on Apr 13, 2008 14:44:34 GMT 1
Hang on the 51/51A and 55 would swap routes on evenings and Sundays, explain how that would benefit anybody please.
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Post by Craig on Apr 13, 2008 21:41:55 GMT 1
As far as Shadwell is concerned, if one route out of the current two available had to be picked, I would nominate Scott Hall Road, as the Shadwell service can then form part of a new Overground line together with Alwoodley services, where as Chapeltown Road already has a 5-minute headway. Also Shadwell would then keep the new buses on the supposedly quality guideway route.
The 55 is actually a busy route despite it duplicating other routes. Cottingley does not warrant a 10-minute overground service, surprisingly many passengers on the 55 do not actually board or alight in Cottingley, and the 51/51A skirts the estate anyway so most people get that. A possible solution would be a half-hourly evening/Sunday service (perhaps numbered 54) between White Rose, Cottingley, possibly Beeston, Holbeck and Leeds which would allow the 1, 3 and 51 to follow their daytime routes.
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Post by nick on Apr 13, 2008 21:59:33 GMT 1
That would confuse people even more. Thought we were meant to be simplifying things not making them more complicated. Been thinking and come up with the perfect solution. Totally withdraw the 55 route altogether.
51/51A then takes it place(not big change only via holdbeck and cottingley so it is hardly taking two or three extra buses and resources)
3/3A-1-55-87 withdrawn that way there is an improvement on the 1 and 3/3A on evenings and Sundays, the 4 buses that were allocated to the 55 move onto a route that is needing a improvement,87 journeys cut by about 2 minutes making it more reliable as it can make those 2 minutes up if delayed(don't change the times)
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Post by Craig on Apr 13, 2008 22:14:27 GMT 1
It is not more complicated. It is introducing one route to replace occasional diversions of 3 routes.
Can you justify your arguments at all? Why send the 51/51A on a long detour? Why would Cottingley need an 8-minute daytime frequency? How on earth does withdrawing the 1/3/3A provide an improvement on the 1/3/3A (your words not mine)? The 55 requires 5 buses, not 4 as you keep stating, and how exactly will 5 beaten Dennis Darts "improve" any other service? Why withdraw the 87, it is there to provide a link between White Rose and Cottingley, which wouldn't be otherwise replaced by your plans?
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Apr 13, 2008 22:41:33 GMT 1
Cottingley really needs buses to Leeds, Morley and the WRC, which is why it is complicated deciding how to serve there
Another route which is just plain weird is the 74. I would split this with the west part running as maybe a 46A and the east part as part of the 85/87 type of group
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Post by hfx on Apr 13, 2008 23:29:46 GMT 1
From First's Website:
Service 358 is the NEW Huddersfield Blue Line, running every 20 Minutes.
However, the 327 is Still showing as the Blue line too!
Is this some Error, or an a good sensible change by First?
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Post by nick on Apr 14, 2008 18:52:52 GMT 1
Cottingley really needs buses to Leeds, Morley and the WRC, which is why it is complicated deciding how to serve there Another route which is just plain weird is the 74. I would split this with the west part running as maybe a 46A and the east part as part of the 85/87 type of group 74 is simply just a complicated route as both destination ends are within a mile of each other(Sharp House/Thorpe Lane). They run every half hour correct me if i am wrong so wouldn't it be easier to have another service number with both heading in a circular direction in and around Middleton(75 comes to mind). So it would look something like this 74:Leeds-Holdbeck-Beeston-Middleton-Bell Isle-Hunslet-Leeds 75:Leeds-Hunslet-Bell Isle-Middleton-Beeston-Holdbeck-Leeds Terminus point in Leeds either the bus station,interchange or infirmary street. |
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Post by Craig on Apr 14, 2008 19:15:41 GMT 1
No, the best idea for the 74 would be as westyorkshirebus suggested, split it back into two separate services, which it always has been and should still be.
My suggestion for the east side of the route would be to have the 85/87 hourly each as now, but to a co-ordinated 30-minute frequency, and then a new service between Sharp Lane and Leeds via the 85/87 route to also run every 30 mins (re-instating the previous 15 min combined frequency) and the new route then also run hourly evenings/Sundays. Divert the hourly 76 via Winrose Drive to cover this area (yes this would be a service reduction on this road). This also means Pepper Road will now get an evening service, as the current 74A diverts via West Grange which is now covered by the 481.
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mjn
Forum Member
Posts: 109
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Post by mjn on Apr 14, 2008 21:29:10 GMT 1
Pepper Road already has an evening service (the 86).
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Post by Craig on Apr 14, 2008 21:50:57 GMT 1
I meant more specifically a link to the city centre in the evenings.
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Post by jml8371 on Apr 15, 2008 3:52:21 GMT 1
The best option for the 74/74a would be to run it from Middleton to Leeds, then either terminate it in the city centre or send it else where.
The Belle Isle end of the route is a waste of time, on the 74 apart from Black Bull Street (Never gets anyone on or off there) and Newhall Drive (Hardly any passengers at all), almost the whole route is duplicated by the Blue Line services and people just stand back to wait for them when you approach them.
On an evening, again the 74a via Stourton Grange runs almost empty all night, the only time you seem to get more people than you can count on 1 hand is when the twirlies get on from Hunslet Carr club on the last trip! I hate doing that route as it is now so boring.
The only section of the route that really gets quite a few passengers is between Holbeck & Leeds.
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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Apr 15, 2008 14:26:38 GMT 1
In my experience, i can tell you that routes 85 and 87 are very unreliable, especally between October and January. Most people within easy reach of Wakefield Road (for example those who live on the Westburys, Parnabys and Rochfords) will use the 110, 443 and 444, a short 7 min walk from most of these streets. Service 74a stops at inconvienient locations (for example next to a cemetery plagued by vandals, muggers etc or at stops plagued by roudy drugged up loonies who should be locked up). A shorter more reliable 85 and 87 is required (most people wouldn't mind the Morley extention cut to East Ardsley or even Middleton), and Metro should pay for police to stand at vulnerable points on the 74a route, not spend money building new fangled bus stops/raised kerbs. This is how you encourage people living close to crap areas (Belle Isle estate, Middleton estate) to use busses more. I am sure a replacement service could be found for any cuts to the 85/87 routes, e.g divert the 711 via Cottingley and Parkwood.
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Post by nick on Apr 15, 2008 15:59:49 GMT 1
The 74 route can be withdrawn completely as the east side can be taken care of very easily. A new service (54) introduced with runs from Leeds to Beeston via the current 74 route. It then goes to White Rose,Cottingley,Morley,East Ardsley and terminating at Middleton Thorpe Lane. Thus cutting down the 87/85 to terminate at Middleton and become more reliable(as Patrick mentioned) and this cut down could introduce a 15 minute link which together the 85/87/74 already give(although they are not as reliable).
This route would run every half hour from the Bus Station(Interwork with the 55 or 73/85/87) and would run evenings and Sundays every hour thus solving the confusing cottingley situation as the 3/3A can be withdrawn along with the 1 and only the 54/55(87 only works to Parkwood Estate or Middleton). 55 would be extended into the evenings again every hour and there is your every half hour link on Sundays and evenings at cottingley.
Patrick you mentioned the 711 going via Cottingley. On a good day it takes 55 minutes Interchange-Centre. It is timetabled with a 10 minute layover at white rose just in case of any delay. Sending it into Cottingley will either cut down the layover time or cost more money for first who would have to find a solution because 711 when gets back if going via cottingley would have to interwork with another service. Simply not viable. Anyway i am sure a lot of people of cottingley don't mind the 5 minute walk to the outskirts of Cottingley to get on the bus!!!
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Post by jml8371 on Apr 16, 2008 1:38:43 GMT 1
The 74 route can be withdrawn completely as the east side can be taken care of very easily. A new service (54) introduced with runs from Leeds to Beeston via the current 74 route. It then goes to White Rose,Cottingley,Morley,East Ardsley and terminating at Middleton Thorpe Lane. Thus cutting down the 87/85 to terminate at Middleton and become more reliable(as Patrick mentioned) and this cut down could introduce a 15 minute link which together the 85/87/74 already give(although they are not as reliable). This route would run every half hour from the Bus Station(Interwork with the 55 or 73/85/87) and would run evenings and Sundays every hour thus solving the confusing cottingley situation as the 3/3A can be withdrawn along with the 1 and only the 54/55(87 only works to Parkwood Estate or Middleton). 55 would be extended into the evenings again every hour and there is your every half hour link on Sundays and evenings at cottingley. Patrick you mentioned the 711 going via Cottingley. On a good day it takes 55 minutes Interchange-Centre. It is timetabled with a 10 minute layover at white rose just in case of any delay. Sending it into Cottingley will either cut down the layover time or cost more money for first who would have to find a solution because 711 when gets back if going via cottingley would have to interwork with another service. Simply not viable. Anyway i am sure a lot of people of cottingley don't mind the 5 minute walk to the outskirts of Cottingley to get on the bus!!! I can almost gurantee that the 74 service won't be taken off the section between Leeds & Middleton via Holbeck. It has run this way for a lot of years and is a very good route to First. I still think that extending the 3 or 3a to Cottingley during the daytime is the best option for that area, then you could run the 85 Leeds->Morley via Hunslet, Middleton, East Ardsley & Tingley Mill. When it gets to Morley it could then return as the 87 via Churwell, White Rose, Parkwood (Waste of time), South Leeds Stadium (What a better idea!!!) & Hunslet. The seriously underused & silly 76 service could then be dropped! Forget the 711 idea, as this is a Braford service and they won't be interested in serving a Leeds housing estate. (They'd change the 15 if they could get away with it!!!) |
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Post by bc on Apr 16, 2008 18:31:36 GMT 1
I get the feeling that areas like Parkwood (where buses enter and leave by the same road) are often seen as the most troublesome parts of the network - they'll never warrant an Overground-style frequent service, and in fact I imagine most residents are quite prepared to walk to the nearest 'mainline' corridor (e.g. Beeston Park Ring Road for the 2, every 10 mins). But of course a (less frequent) service still needs to be provided for the less able, and because there would no doubt be the usual type of local media 'outrage' if, say, the Parkwood diversion was axed completely.
I have long thought that the extension of both the 1 *and* 3/3A to Cottingley on Sundays is a little on the excessive side - especially when Cottingley doesn't even have a link to Beeston or Dewsbury Road during the week!!
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Post by Craig on Apr 16, 2008 20:40:57 GMT 1
You are right that there would be too much public outcry if Parkwood Estate was dropped, but First seem to have got away with reducing it to an hourly service with a very long journey time to the city centre. I just don't get why one 74 bus per hour can't serve Parkwood, same as it does evenings and Sundays - and on the subject of the 74, this won't and shouldn't really be dropped on the west half of the route as this is one of the oldest intact Leeds routes still around.
Either 1 or 3/3A (not both) needs to be kept for Cottingley (or a new service altogether), but you are right that both routes are a bit silly as they provide old links which are no longer provided in the daytime. The 3/3A is probably the better candidate as it also links to the White Rose, incidentally because of the tendering it does this every 20 mins on a Sunday but only hourly the rest of the week...
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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Apr 21, 2008 16:52:58 GMT 1
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Post by huddsinfo on Apr 21, 2008 21:39:21 GMT 1
New Purple line numbers in Huddersfield
181 - 186
Linking the Colne Valley
181 Huddersfield - Cowlersley - Linthwaite Church - Slaithwaite - Hill Top - Wilberlee
182 Huddersfield - Cowlersley - Linthwaite Church - Blackmoorfoot - Slaithwiate - Marsden Hard End
183 Huddersfield - Manchester Road - Slaithwiate - Marsden Hard End
(Not New) 184 Huddersfield - Marsden - Oldham - Manchester
185 Huddersfield - Manchester Road - Slaithwaite - Marsden Dirker
186 Marsden Dirker - Huddersfield
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Post by Craig on Apr 21, 2008 22:01:06 GMT 1
I think we've already had reports on the new Purple Line numbering several times now....
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Post by dougie on Apr 22, 2008 20:47:17 GMT 1
Whitehall Road to Holbeck could do with a "tidying up" of services, it's got a lot of buses an hour, but four or five different numbers. Not sure whether it'd be possible to replace the 61 with a beefed up 46/74 to Beeston? (for example)
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Post by jml8371 on Apr 23, 2008 2:40:46 GMT 1
The 61 is a busy route, they won't change that in a hurry!!
Only change I can possibly see in the near future is replacement of the darts with bigger buses. (1 board is now actually rostered for a dual door double deck)
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Post by nick on Apr 23, 2008 7:35:10 GMT 1
The reason i saw a few sundays ago a dual door outside kirkstall having a rest with the destination screen as 61-Leeds General Infirmary!!
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