SGI Buses

[kendall17]

First SGI departure

[Matty]

The Mylleniums that have been aquired are ex Comfybus, Originally new to London for the Myllenium Dome service, when they enter service they will be downseated to 16 seats temporarily while they get a full O-Licence

[westyorkshirebus]

Has any other operator ever downseated buses in such an extreme way, even if just temporary? I've never heard anyone do this before, has anyone else?

[steve]

The Renault was out in service yesterday.

[dwarfer1979]

Jun 2, 2013 0:12:50 GMT 1 westyorkshirebus said:

Has any other operator ever downseated buses in such an extreme way, even if just temporary? I've never heard anyone do this before, has anyone else?

Not that I know of, as much because it is pushing the allowance of the law to its limits which will bring problems if you want to upgrade since the TCs do not look kindly on operators who push the spirit of the law for apparent commercial gain like this when there is no operational reason to do so as other than proving you can maintain & run a larger vehicle safely the hoops to gain a normal O-license aren't more time consuming or particularly more taxing to go through. A restricted O-license is designed to let businesses run a couple of minibuses on work associated with their business where PSV operations are not their core business (staff/customer shuttles for hotels/shops/nurseries etc or taxi operators are some examples). Stripping out seats from full size buses and running them on commercial local service work may be technically legal to the letter of the law in that they are 16-seaters but it flouts the spirit and with the second straight competitive service (as opposed to a single bus new service that someone else decides to compete on after it is registered) they are going to have some work to do to convince the TC that bus operation is not their core business. Whilst they have downseated to 16-seats they standing allowance would in theory at least double that which is hardly playing by the intention of the law designed around small minibuses. The TCs have recently highlighted a number of recent cases of operators applying for restricted licenses where they weren't granted as the TCs were not convinced that the PSV operations would not become a major part of the work undertaken by the business, and these were less grey areas covering taxi operators wanting to run a minibus on school runs and the occasional private hire. It will be interesting to see how he gets on with the TC when he applies to upgrade as I'm not sure there has been a precedent like this to work out whether this was a perfectly acceptable method of development & they will be happy to let it through or whether there will be a grilling over how this has developed.

[Arriva Wakefield]

Jun 3, 2013 9:02:49 GMT 1 dwarfer1979 said:

Jun 2, 2013 0:12:50 GMT 1 westyorkshirebus said:

Has any other operator ever downseated buses in such an extreme way, even if just temporary? I've never heard anyone do this before, has anyone else?

Not that I know of, as much because it is pushing the allowance of the law to its limits which will bring problems if you want to upgrade since the TCs do not look kindly on operators who push the spirit of the law for apparent commercial gain like this when there is no operational reason to do so as other than proving you can maintain & run a larger vehicle safely the hoops to gain a normal O-license aren't more time consuming or particularly more taxing to go through. A restricted O-license is designed to let businesses run a couple of minibuses on work associated with their business where PSV operations are not their core business (staff/customer shuttles for hotels/shops/nurseries etc or taxi operators are some examples). Stripping out seats from full size buses and running them on commercial local service work may be technically legal to the letter of the law in that they are 16-seaters but it flouts the spirit and with the second straight competitive service (as opposed to a single bus new service that someone else decides to compete on after it is registered) they are going to have some work to do to convince the TC that bus operation is not their core business. Whilst they have downseated to 16-seats they standing allowance would in theory at least double that which is hardly playing by the intention of the law designed around small minibuses. The TCs have recently highlighted a number of recent cases of operators applying for restricted licenses where they weren't granted as the TCs were not convinced that the PSV operations would not become a major part of the work undertaken by the business, and these were less grey areas covering taxi operators wanting to run a minibus on school runs and the occasional private hire. It will be interesting to see how he gets on with the TC when he applies to upgrade as I'm not sure there has been a precedent like this to work out whether this was a perfectly acceptable method of development & they will be happy to let it through or whether there will be a grilling over how this has developed.

Or is he going to claim that SGI Locum (the dental side) is the main business?

[www.buseireann.ie]

Their missing a trick, they should market themselves as very pushchair friendly, space for up to 16 of them and a bit more!

[driver6540]

There's a big difference in being an investor and a successful businessman. Mr Steel has got it so wrong. He could have tapped into a niche market like operating rural services in Kirklees that wouldn't have appealed to Arriva and grown his business steadily, As Stotts have done with their network of Holme/Colne Valley minibus services, But no, he decides to compete with Britain's third biggest bus operator on the Dewsbury-Batley corridor, upon which Arriva already operate services on a less than 10 min frequency. All i can surmise is that he must have shed-loads of cash and be doing this for a hobby, because anyone with eyes can see this venture is doomed to fail commercially. Despite this, mavericks/entrepeneurs do make life interesting even if you've got to question their sanity.

[dwarfer1979]

Jun 3, 2013 10:28:22 GMT 1 Arriva Wakefield said:

Or is he going to claim that SGI Locum (the dental side) is the main business?

I had assumed that was his thinking but not knowing what his other business was I couldn't work out how easy the argument would be. There doesn't appear any obvious connection between the two business areas that would allow an easy argument that it is one company with the bus operations being a minor but necessary part of the larger non-transport business (such as patient or staff collection or the like) as opposed to two associated but separate businesses one running buses & one running dental services. He also isn't helping himself by registering a second service when he only has a 2 vehicle license, the TCs have not historically looked favourably on a local service bus operator (as opposed to a private hire operator on their busy days) who schedules a pvr that is the same as his o-license allowance as it is considered indicative of poor planning and will lead to unreliable operation as you can't replace a faulty bus until it has got back to the yard to swap the license discs over so lost mileage is endemic is such a set up. He is trying to rush development in his business but all the regulations around the bus industry mean that it is not one that accommodates such ad-hoc management and the regulators do not have a history of being happy to allow people to circumvent the rules just to do things quickly.

[eby543]

16:19 dewsbury-birstal ran 20 min late today

[A1YBG]

@sgibuses: RT @steelgroupinves: Design Our bus! Would you like to design the colour scheme of our buses? Get in touch!!!! #designourbus

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[A1YBG]

One of sgi's new purchases mylenniums was out on 288 today after a change over from the dart at lunchtime today

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[Deleted]

Looks nice! (Even though it isn't even their livery).

[A1YBG]

Jun 14, 2013 16:45:47 GMT 1 @leyland803 said:

Looks nice! (Even though it isn't even their livery).

They are soon to be repainted. They was asking followers on twitter to come up with a livery last week.

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[driver6540]

Whats the point, they'll be out of business before the paints dry.

[Matty]

I can see them doing well. They'll be West Yorkshires equivalent of JPT in a few years

[dwarfer1979]

Jun 19, 2013 18:41:42 GMT 1 Matty said:

I can see them doing well. They'll be West Yorkshires equivalent of JPT in a few years

Not unless he sorts his license out quick, he still only has a restricted O-license for the operation of 2 16-seaters, you won't grow to be anything with that. And I just can't see the logic in running big, thirsty DAFs with only 16-seats around on services drinking fuel at about 7.5mpg when you could be running MPDs or Solos (which cost less to buy in the first place) at over 10mpg and which won't look as silly when you get inside or low-floor minibuses which would be running at 15-20mpg and are designed for around 16 seats. The fuel costs alone are going to kill you unless it is sorted quickly with only 16 seats available you will need pretty full buses on every trip just to keep those DAFs on the road and he isn't really running the sorts of routes and services where he can be confident of those sort of loadings regularly.

[Arriva Wakefield]

Jun 19, 2013 18:41:42 GMT 1 Matty said:

I can see them doing well. They'll be West Yorkshires equivalent of JPT in a few years

Can you - well I can say that quite a few people have a very low opinion of JPT - and that we don't want SGI to be that badly thought of, do we?

[driver6540]

Jun 19, 2013 18:41:42 GMT 1 Matty said:

I can see them doing well. They'll be West Yorkshires equivalent of JPT in a few years

I cant see them doing well. They'll be West Yorkshires equivalent of Yorkshire Line in a few weeks.

[SF07]

Looks like SGI have lost out to Arriva on the Dewsbury-Birstall Retail Park route:

PB1116692/1 - STEEL GROUP INVESTMENTS LIMITED T/A SGI, BRETTON STREET ENTERPRISE CENTRE, BRETFIELD COURT, DEWSBURY, WF12 9DB
Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Dewsbury and Birstall given service number 288 effective from 31-Aug-2013.

[angrycommuter]

As expected the 288 has been cancelled. However Arriva are now in the tricky position that they cannot really cancel their 280 route without causing bad press, even if the service is making a loss.

I think the best thing all round on this route would be for Arriva to extend the 281 and/or 282 to the Retail Park. This would maintain the connections through to Dewsbury and also allow them to withdraw the 280. It might need a bit of tweaking with regards to running times but it should be possible as the Fieldhead services are often laying over for a good while in the estate.

[SF07]

Jun 26, 2013 15:40:04 GMT 1 angrycommuter said:

As expected the 288 has been cancelled. However Arriva are now in the tricky position that they cannot really cancel their 280 route without causing bad press, even if the service is making a loss.

I think the best thing all round on this route would be for Arriva to extend the 281 and/or 282 to the Retail Park. This would maintain the connections through to Dewsbury and also allow them to withdraw the 280. It might need a bit of tweaking with regards to running times but it should be possible as the Fieldhead services are often laying over for a good while in the estate.

I can certainly see Arriva merging the 280 into either the 281 or 282 route to try and maintain a link to/from Birstall Retail Park. I would imagine there would be some kind of backlash if both SGI and Arriva withdraw the Dewsbury-Birstall Retail Park services.

Does anyone know what's happened with SGI's plans for the 289 service? Was wondering whether it was possibly that the 289 would provide a partial replacement to the 288 by running via Birstall Retail Park.

[A1YBG]

This is the reply I got when asking about whats the future for this operator


@djgaz2k The 288 was a market test for a proposed community transport CIC. We are currently forming the new organisation

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[A1YBG]

Sgibuses are to become sgict which is an non for profit company and are taking delivery soon of 3 brand new street lites to launch 3 new services.

This is getting interesting.

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[Matty]

Knew they wouldn't be a cowboy operator, if the owner is an investor he isn't going to run round on fresh air and shabby buses for too long..