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Post by Craig on Nov 28, 2007 19:59:10 GMT 1
Details of some changes which are due to take place from the end of January which may be of interest:
First (Leeds):
16 to be extended from Dawson's Corner to Pudsey
67 to run Leeds to Bramley Shopping Centre only
80 to run Farsley The Gardens - Pudsey - Bramley, serving Bramley Rail Station, Shopping Centre and the Ganners Way loop currently served by the 67. Eventually the 80 is also *planned* to serve the new Pollard Lane housing development.
First (Bradford):
New tendered service to operate Shipley - BRI via Windhill, Manningham and Heaton. Will run hourly Mon-Sat, 0930 to 1630.
Arriva:
225 Cleckheaton-Halifax, currently every 2 hours, to be replaced by an hourly service between Cleckheaton and Brighouse only.
268 and 281 - extra Monday to Saturday evening journeys to be introduced, primarily to provide better links to and from Dewsbury & District Hospital.
284 Dewsbury-Birstall Ikea & Showcase-Heckmondwike to be withdrawn.
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Post by jackh on Nov 28, 2007 22:22:07 GMT 1
Hmmm, I'm not sure where Bramley will source the extra Geminis for this extension from. They seem to short at the moment hence why so many Striders are appearing on the 51/51A. K1 YRL rarely goes into service as Steve Graham looks like he wants to preserve this vehicle due to it been the first Gemini for a First operation outside of London.
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kendall17
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Post by kendall17 on Nov 28, 2007 22:36:56 GMT 1
i see your point jack, only seen K1 YRL in servce about 4 times - might aswell send it to a museum and get a replacement. alot of services seem short at the moment. i saw a dart/dash coming down easterly road today. leeds needs more buses if these 'improvements' to services continue!
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Post by jackh on Nov 28, 2007 22:43:26 GMT 1
Well we are still waiting on the rest of those B9TLs we only have 22 out of the 30 due. Well when Bradford get their B9TLs, their ALX400s are heading south to Rotherham I think, we could snatch some of them, stick them on the 40/50 services which could free up some more Geminis!
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Post by Craig on Nov 29, 2007 0:56:58 GMT 1
The service 16 extension should only call for one extra bus. I'm sure they can put on another Strider with the absence of anything more modern at the moment!
So were there only 30 B9s due as I thought it was meant to be a full allocation of 44? Which really it should be. I also recall back when the 2/3/12/13 timetables and interworkings changed earlier this year that to compensate "the services will be fully low floor by the end of this year". Yet another false hope from First!
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Post by rossbailey on Nov 29, 2007 0:58:13 GMT 1
Why Extend the 16 in the first place. On a day time it already take 1 hour 10 mins from Seacroft to Dawson Corner on a good day. Even then we have to go witout a break at the end as we always nearly run late..
I can understand doing it on an Evening and Sundays as we get nearly 28 mins standing on both ends. Where as the 4 service dos'nt get any.
Also what happens with the 16A's route on a night time and Sundays??
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Post by Craig on Nov 29, 2007 1:05:12 GMT 1
All that is confirmed so far is that First are making a commercial extension to Pudsey on the 16, so possibly evenings/Sundays might stay as they are, though as you say with so much dead time they might as well extend through to Pudsey at all times.
It is my guess that there may be other changes to services in the area, therefore the extension of the 16 might be a replacement for another service.
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Post by jackh on Nov 29, 2007 9:16:46 GMT 1
Could the 73 be possibly axed? The 16 may do an every 20 minute extension from Dawsons Corner via Bradford Road and Richardshaw Lane and 73 route to Pudsey? Most unlikely though as the 73 interworks with the 85/87/87A at LCBS.
Unless the 44/44A maybe revised and the 16 extension runs the 44/44A route between Dawson's Corner and Pudsey Bus Station.
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Post by Craig on Nov 29, 2007 22:27:25 GMT 1
I very much doubt the 73 would go. Its a busy route and to replace it with the 16 via Farsley, Intake & Bramley would add a very long detour! If anything I've always thought the 40 should have stayed as a through Pudsey-Seacroft frequent service when Overground was born.
I was thinking the 44/44A for the chop. I imagine all 16s will be extended to Pudsey not just every 20 mins. The 44 could easily be excused for being cut Leeds to Bramley only, or taken off completely with some other service diverted via Raynville. Also I can't help wondering if First will still want to run the 8/81 half-hourly through Farsley...
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Post by rossbailey on Nov 29, 2007 23:48:27 GMT 1
Hi
It can be said for the 15, which already follows the 16's from Dawson Corner all the way to Coal Hill Lane. If they dropped the 16A's and made all the 16's go via Intake lane and Leeds/Bradford Road the 15 could be Diverted by Bagley lane - Rodley Town Street - Coal Hill Lane and back onto normal route via Carveley lane to cover the 44A daytime & 16A evening and Sunday runs. Meanwhile the 16 would cover the 44 runs.
The problem lies with dropping the 44's on an Evening and Sundays. No service between Bramley and Leeds on that section of the route. Saying that they could easily continue the newly extended hourly 80 service from Bramley Centre to Leeds until the last bus that leaves Leeds at 21:00 and works back into the garage at 21:45. I guess they would have to change the 89/90 and 90A's as it interworks with them on an Evening and Sundays
As for the 73's these already operate half empty. They have been talk of a reduction down to hourly on an Evening and Sundays journeys. It could interwork with the Hourly 508 to make and half Hourly service. As at the moment we follow them into Leeds and back out once every hour. I know, as the First Halifax 508 drivers get sick of us waiting longer and setting of later than planned and let them take all the flack. If they did this it would also give a 15 mins service with the 72 on the Stanningley Road section.
Currently the 73's don't interwork with the 85 & 87's. It on the 49 rotors and operates on it’s self now.
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Post by Craig on Nov 30, 2007 19:24:09 GMT 1
The 15/16 idea sounds good. I had thought of sending all the 16s from Coal Hill Lane the long way round Rodley, but forgot the 15 could do the same job.
The 44 would need the Bramley to Leeds section covering at all times, which could be its own service or tagged onto something else. Incidentally what is with the 44 evening timetable, are Saturdays so popular that they must run two extra round trips?? PS The 89 stopped running quite a while ago!
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Post by rossbailey on Nov 30, 2007 21:53:47 GMT 1
On a weekday that 44/90/90A dutie runs out of hours. So you can't do anymore. But on a Saturday you start 2 hour later on that piace so that they can add 2 extra round trips in.
The samething happens with the sole 38 serivce on a weekend Evening. That duite starts 30 mins later so that they can run that last run from Moortown back to the old Bramley Fire Station. Where as on a Weekday you start and end 30 mins earlier. So have to bring that bus back empty back to Bramley from Moortown.
Hope that helps a little.
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Post by Craig on Dec 1, 2007 13:36:21 GMT 1
That makes sense, and I had wondered about that last 38 run before (Mon-Fri nothing, Sat all the way to Whingate, Sun to Stanningley Road only!).
But in practice why not just finish the shift early and therefore not pay for a driver and a bus to be running around? Because I can't imagine the demand is there for extra Saturday journeys so can't they just stop running at the same time all week? Also does this mean these late journeys are provided commercially as it seems odd for Metro to subsidise a journey which is there only on certain days just to suit First's rotas!
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Post by rossbailey on Dec 1, 2007 14:13:15 GMT 1
That Late 38 journey on a weekday is actually subsidised by Metro to run but like I said above it just can't be done. Which Metro knows about but allow us to do it for some reason. One way round it was to start the duties 30 mins later that allowed it to be operated on a Saturday and Sunday.
When Black Prince use to run the 38's on an evening, they did that late run all the time. But we use to run the 91 service every 30 mins on an evening at that time against them in competition. Now both are dropped down to an Hourly service.
There was a plan to operate one of the late 51/51A's that run private back to the garage from Moor Allerton via the 38 routes in service so that the late run could be operated. But this never happened as the low height double deck Volvo 53--'s which we use to have kept breaking down at the time or were just running low on fuel.
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Post by Craig on Dec 1, 2007 15:41:15 GMT 1
Apologies to everyone for going off topic with all this... but I'm at a loss why Metro would allow it, essentially they are supposed to run a daily service but it is a 'no show' 5 days out of 7! I understand that the 38 diagram doesn't allow for this last bus to run, but thats First's problem to sort out. They're being paid to run the bus, so they need to pull off another service (51 sounds a good idea as you mention) or even send a bus out especially to run it.
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Post by rossbailey on Dec 1, 2007 21:21:22 GMT 1
With out getting myself into anymore trouble all I'll say on the subject is that, I only do what I need to do to make a living.
If something could be done about it then thats up to the traffic managers @ First and Metro to decide.
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Post by jackh on Dec 1, 2007 21:42:17 GMT 1
As far as I'm aware, you are the only driver on the forum and I don't think First, Arriva or Transdev are aware of it.
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Post by Craig on Dec 1, 2007 22:58:45 GMT 1
Sorry, I wasn't trying to get you in any trouble or calling you to answer why First do these things! I've only been asking as its such a pet hate of mine when public transport funding gets wasted when it could be put to much better use.
Anyway, back on topic (I think) and going back a few messages, I've now realised why I decided that the 15 couldn't divert via Rodley in place of other routes - there would be no Bramley centre to Rodley service which I would think is a necessary link.
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Post by rossbailey on Dec 2, 2007 19:10:41 GMT 1
Hi
So If you diverted the 16's to go via Rodley which service would run run along Coal Hill - Intake Lane & Leeds/Bradford road section?
Also which route would then have to serve the Pudsey Owlcotes center if you dropped the 44/44A service??
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Post by Burnside on Dec 2, 2007 22:58:25 GMT 1
On the subject of the Shipley - BRI new route, for people in Shipley, what is the point of this service?
If it's going via Windhill and therefore, presumably, Thackley, wouldn't it still be quicker to go to Bradford via Manningham Lane and then 617 or 618 to BRI?
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Post by Craig on Dec 3, 2007 20:24:17 GMT 1
I presumed it will run from Shipley through the Owlet Road/Gaisby Lane area and then Frizinghall to Manningham, Heaton and BRI. If this is the plan then that would be quicker/more convenient than changing in the city centre.
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Post by jackh on Dec 3, 2007 20:58:31 GMT 1
On the subject of the Shipley - BRI new route, for people in Shipley, what is the point of this service? If it's going via Windhill and therefore, presumably, Thackley, wouldn't it still be quicker to go to Bradford via Manningham Lane and then 617 or 618 to BRI? Well if it still went via Windhill and Thackley I'm sure OAPs and Disabled people would rather take a direct bus than changing buses in Bradford.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2007 2:14:45 GMT 1
RE: Shipley-BRI Windhill, refers to the Shipley side (not West Royd side). As it's a tendered service, mostly it will avoid going the same route as a commercial service?
There was a route some years ago (registered as 606 but showed 672 ?) which ran: Shipley, Asda, Norwood, Frizinghall (Hilton), Heaton (Leylands), Wheatlands, BRI, Squire Lane, Rhodesway, Middlebrook, Leaventhorpe, West Lane, Hill Top. This tendered service served many suburban roads and passed half my friends' houses!. (On the minus side most of these within walking distance of a main route, took longer at the time than changing at Sunbridge Road and only ran in the morning off-peak, limiting return journeys)
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Post by jabbott1987 on Dec 4, 2007 21:04:06 GMT 1
I have noticed TLC Travel Limited are withdrawning some of there routes 941,942,943 & 946
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Post by Craig on Dec 4, 2007 22:16:02 GMT 1
Yes, Metro have revised this tender to simplify the operation of the 940-946 services so that only service number 940 will be used operating hourly all day between Holt Park and Wharfedale General Hospital.
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