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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Mar 16, 2024 10:53:29 GMT 1
It seems to me that many services have been reduced in recent years, though First Leeds and Transdev Keighley less than the rest. In a recent opportunity survey Arriva Yorkshire came in as one of the worst operators. Transdev cancellations have been mentioned on this forum a bit.
So, I can understand how franchising has been decided on for West Yorkshire now.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Mar 16, 2024 11:09:39 GMT 1
The silly Mayor and her minions behind this franchising idea should have included a decision on what to do with all cross boundary services right from the start instead of this wishy washy we're still working on that bit nonsense! What a disorganised person and group of people for that matter, sack the lot of em and never employ them again! Why do you have to be abusive? It's possible to disagree with the Mayor politely. If they've only just made the decision on franchising it would seem odd to know everything about how it will work - otherwise I'm sure you'd have been criticising them for having people working on something that might not even happen. Sack everyone at an organisation because you disagree with the policy and their priorities are different from yours? That's ridiculous. Because I'm someone who doesn't put up with slackers. I get EVERYTHING organised and ready before doing something right from the start, and this idiot Mayor and her merry minions really irritates me due to the sheer volume of unforgivable slackness, from timetable errors to diversion mistakes to that stupid and frankly out of date Leeds Core Bus Network to the East Leeds DRT, mistake after mistake after mistake by her and her minions, what the hell are they playing at, if they were all in a private sector organisation they'd be sacked. The fact they haven't done something as simple as working with neighbouring authorities to sort out what to do with cross boundary services before launching the franchising route proposals is astonishing, it's a bit like a bank launching a savings account without putting together all the small print. Bus companies like South Pennine need to know what is going to happen to their cross boundary routes with as much notice as possible, all that woman does is have her photo here, there and everywhere, instead of launching a food bank she should have been concentrating on franchising, spending all her time not spent on other ESSENTIAL transport activity on this, not launching a stupid food bank! And as for the Bradford Interchange farce, yes it's not the fault of some current managers and staff who wern't around when it was built, however they are all directly at fault for what happened to so called arrangements following it's closure. How many people missed buses and were late for essential stuff because of that total slackness, it's not rocket science, it's called being organised which EVERYONE connected with arrangements following the closure of the interchange clearly lacked. Someone should have owned the problem and sorted it regardless if it wasn't their job, but that's the problem with the UK, this stupid 'it's not my job' culture. Clearly people on the ground knew it was all going wrong but didn't kick up a fuss with management, hence why it continued to keep going wrong for an unacceptable number of days, weeks even. Someone on the ground once said to me he could do a better job, this, this and this should be done, so I told him instead of telling me, tell your senior managers but nope, it's not his job.
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Post by deerfold on Mar 16, 2024 13:43:54 GMT 1
Why do you have to be abusive? It's possible to disagree with the Mayor politely. If they've only just made the decision on franchising it would seem odd to know everything about how it will work - otherwise I'm sure you'd have been criticising them for having people working on something that might not even happen. Sack everyone at an organisation because you disagree with the policy and their priorities are different from yours? That's ridiculous. Because I'm someone who doesn't put up with slackers. I get EVERYTHING organised and ready before doing something right from the start, and this idiot Mayor and her merry minions really irritates me due to the sheer volume of unforgivable slackness, from timetable errors to diversion mistakes to that stupid and frankly out of date Leeds Core Bus Network to the East Leeds DRT, mistake after mistake after mistake by her and her minions, what the hell are they playing at, if they were all in a private sector organisation they'd be sacked. The fact they haven't done something as simple as working with neighbouring authorities to sort out what to do with cross boundary services before launching the franchising route proposals is astonishing, it's a bit like a bank launching a savings account without putting together all the small print. Bus companies like South Pennine need to know what is going to happen to their cross boundary routes with as much notice as possible, all that woman does is have her photo here, there and everywhere, instead of launching a food bank she should have been concentrating on franchising, spending all her time not spent on other ESSENTIAL transport activity on this, not launching a stupid food bank! And as for the Bradford Interchange farce, yes it's not the fault of some current managers and staff who wern't around when it was built, however they are all directly at fault for what happened to so called arrangements following it's closure. How many people missed buses and were late for essential stuff because of that total slackness, it's not rocket science, it's called being organised which EVERYONE connected with arrangements following the closure of the interchange clearly lacked. Someone should have owned the problem and sorted it regardless if it wasn't their job, but that's the problem with the UK, this stupid 'it's not my job' culture. Clearly people on the ground knew it was all going wrong but didn't kick up a fuss with management, hence why it continued to keep going wrong for an unacceptable number of days, weeks even. Someone on the ground once said to me he could do a better job, this, this and this should be done, so I told him instead of telling me, tell your senior managers but nope, it's not his job. Again, this is ridiculous and unnecessarily abusive. I'm sure someone is responsible for the farce at Bradford Interchange, but not the entire staff of the WYCA. You seem to know a lot more than the rest of us about what the WYCA has been doing about the Franchising process - everyone needs to know how the process works before it starts, but we're still a couple of years off that. Nothing has been launched yet - there's just an announcement. If everything was organised before the announcement people would be complaining that the staff were being secretive and not telling anyone what they're doing for a year or two. The Mayor is responsible for a lot of policy areas. Why should she neglect them to only concentrate on transport? Does she deserve your abuse for that? Does she not have staff that do the legwork once she's told them what to do? Not doing exactly what you want doesn't make her stupid.
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Mar 17, 2024 10:32:30 GMT 1
Because I'm someone who doesn't put up with slackers. I get EVERYTHING organised and ready before doing something right from the start, and this idiot Mayor and her merry minions really irritates me due to the sheer volume of unforgivable slackness, from timetable errors to diversion mistakes to that stupid and frankly out of date Leeds Core Bus Network to the East Leeds DRT, mistake after mistake after mistake by her and her minions, what the hell are they playing at, if they were all in a private sector organisation they'd be sacked. The fact they haven't done something as simple as working with neighbouring authorities to sort out what to do with cross boundary services before launching the franchising route proposals is astonishing, it's a bit like a bank launching a savings account without putting together all the small print. Bus companies like South Pennine need to know what is going to happen to their cross boundary routes with as much notice as possible, all that woman does is have her photo here, there and everywhere, instead of launching a food bank she should have been concentrating on franchising, spending all her time not spent on other ESSENTIAL transport activity on this, not launching a stupid food bank! Again, this is ridiculous and unnecessarily abusive. I'm sure someone is responsible for the farce at Bradford Interchange, but not the entire staff of the WYCA. You seem to know a lot more than the rest of us about what the WYCA has been doing about the Franchising process - everyone needs to know how the process works before it starts, but we're still a couple of years off that. Nothing has been launched yet - there's just an announcement. If everything was organised before the announcement people would be complaining that the staff were being secretive and not telling anyone what they're doing for a year or two. The Mayor is responsible for a lot of policy areas. Why should she neglect them to only concentrate on transport? Does she deserve your abuse for that? Does she not have staff that do the legwork once she's told them what to do? Not doing exactly what you want doesn't make her stupid. WYCA are no different to anyone else, TfGM had no detailed plan obvious for cross-boundary services at this stage of their franchising process and in fact they were very late in dealing with them so making out this is simply a failing at WYCA is just unfair. As an operator off cross-boundary services into the Tranche 3 area of TfGM we still haven't had any official information about how the system works and our only knowledge comes from a single hour long video briefing for Tranche 1 where it was clear the system for managing cross-boundary services was only worked out about 2 weeks before franchising actually started (so several weeks after registrations had needed to be sent in so many operators hadn't correctly registered things & TfGM and the DVSA had to sort it all out in the back office) not before the announcement of franchising or even before the award of the first contracts but only just before commencement of the change. Cross-boundary services in this context are just a complicated mess and each will have to be treated on its own merits and evaluated individually to decide how it will be treated. There will be a combination of how important is the route to the area the franchising authority covers (if it is the only bus to a significant area it may get pulled in where a similar route with local alternatives may not), how significant it is to the network outside the area (if you took the only significant commercial route out of a depot because it had a significant mileage or presence in your area you could kill the entire network in your neighbouring area by making the only bus depot unviable), how commercial it is, how much of the route is within the franchising area, where it is operated from and the plans of the current operator (except for TfGM it is more negotiating with the operators not the local authorities so you need to complete the process to decide this is the right steps and announce it before you can get to this sort of detail - neighbouring LA's are involved as the equivalent of operators when discussing tendered bus services). As such it is basically impossible to have any detailed or even fairly general plan for cross-boundary services at the time you decide, and announce, that you re going forward with franchising as your preferred strategy. Quite frankly practically no elected official is experienced or qualified to make the sort of detailed studies that joseph is suggesting the Mayor should be dedicating her time to over all her other responsibilities. There are transport professionals at WYCA who will be working up the options for these issues as the process develops but hopefully there will be a number of options as there is a bit of time to go and there is plenty of time for circumstances to change or decisions elsewhere to change the parameters you are working to (an operator could enhance or cut back part of a cross-boundary service that could add or remove it from your list as a commercial decision).
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Post by johnboy1948 on Mar 18, 2024 9:43:17 GMT 1
Lets hope nothing happens to them, as South Pennine are a fantastic company one of the very best enabling lots of people to get out. I hope they don't get replaced by any of the big operators, who won't be able to provide as good as service on those routes like South Pennine My prediction is it may be easier for the smaller operators to bid for services in West Yorkshire as there's less of a threat with bigger companies compared to Greater Manchester as they had First, Stagecoach, Rotala, Go-Ahead and Arriva to beat which is actually 4/5 of the big five and Rotala probably being in the Big ten compared to West Yorkshire only really having the threat of Arriva, Transdev and First. I reckon TLC and South Pennine could manage staying but I am unsure about others.
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Post by johnboy1948 on Mar 18, 2024 9:52:27 GMT 1
its going to cost a lot of money but our near bankcrupt councils can afford it or the bus companies who win the short term contracts are paying or is goverment money been used or hard pressed council tax payers are councils going to take over premises by default has tyou all know coucils dont own anything the tax payers own it councils are only the custodions of land and propieties they might has well just form the national bus co like tere used to be
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Apr 6, 2024 2:50:39 GMT 1
Apologies if this question was already asked, but what will happen to routes like X98/8 with them being entirely in West Yorkshire and Transdev's 7 with the vast majority of the route being in West Yorkshire? Also, the Connexions depot is in Wetherby, but they run some services only in North Yorkshire such as the X12. What will happen to those routes when franchising happens?
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Post by leedsbusman on Apr 6, 2024 6:21:48 GMT 1
Apologies if this question was already asked, but what will happen to routes like X98/8 with them being entirely in West Yorkshire and Transdev's 7 with the vast majority of the route being in West Yorkshire? Also, the Connexions depot is in Wetherby, but they run some services only in North Yorkshire such as the X12. What will happen to those routes when franchising happens? The X98/9 is listed as a route in the franchising scheme, the 7 is not so should continue under a permit. Connexions don’t have a depot in Wetherby, they are based in North Yorkshire.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Apr 6, 2024 7:36:37 GMT 1
I think if I were Craig Temple, I'd adjust the commercial 64 so it terminated over the border and so could still operate under a permit, maybe extend it to Sherburn Industrial Estate with a call during Summer months at Lotherton Hall? Obviously this would require an extra vehicle, but it is quite a good route to suddenly have taken off you for what may be a penny pinching sum in return. Extending it to somewhere viable like a fairly close by industrial estate may provide more custom from those living in East Leeds working out that way, and Lotherton will be popular in the Summer months.
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Post by deerfold on Apr 6, 2024 10:55:19 GMT 1
I think if I were Craig Temple, I'd adjust the commercial 64 so it terminated over the border and so could still operate under a permit, maybe extend it to Sherburn Industrial Estate with a call during Summer months at Lotherton Hall? Obviously this would require an extra vehicle, but it is quite a good route to suddenly have taken off you for what may be a penny pinching sum in return. Extending it to somewhere viable like a fairly close by industrial estate may provide more custom from those living in East Leeds working out that way, and Lotherton will be popular in the Summer months. That's not how these things work. It's where the majority of the route is (and if, it's like Manchester it'll be fixed at the date franchising was agreed, so anything changed now is likely to be changed back unless there's a clear gain for passengers). There has preciously been a summer bus service to Lotherton Hall. It didn't run for long.
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Post by stevieinselby on Apr 6, 2024 11:12:23 GMT 1
Apologies if this question was already asked, but what will happen to routes like X98/8 with them being entirely in West Yorkshire and Transdev's 7 with the vast majority of the route being in West Yorkshire? Also, the Connexions depot is in Wetherby, but they run some services only in North Yorkshire such as the X12. What will happen to those routes when franchising happens? Any routes that WYCA wants to have as part of the franchise agreements will be part of the franchise agreements, regardless of who currently operates them and where their depot is. The X98/X99 are entirely within West Yorkshire and so will be included in franchising. The 7 is predominantly in West Yorkshire, so in my view should be included (at least as far as Wetherby), but at the moment it looks like WYCA are not including it and so are expecting Transdev to apply for a permit to run it. Connexions' depot is in North Yorkshire, and they stopped running the X12 at the start of last year. Many of their services are largely or wholly outside West Yorkshire, and will continue unchanged.
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Post by stevieinselby on Apr 6, 2024 11:16:57 GMT 1
I think if I were Craig Temple, I'd adjust the commercial 64 so it terminated over the border and so could still operate under a permit, maybe extend it to Sherburn Industrial Estate with a call during Summer months at Lotherton Hall? Obviously this would require an extra vehicle, but it is quite a good route to suddenly have taken off you for what may be a penny pinching sum in return. Extending it to somewhere viable like a fairly close by industrial estate may provide more custom from those living in East Leeds working out that way, and Lotherton will be popular in the Summer months. No way that any extension from Aberford to Sherburn or Lotherton Hall would be commercially sustainable, and the extra bus you would need on the service to incorporate it would make the whole route into a loss-making operation. Not to mention that it wouldn't change a thing. If WYCA want to put a Leeds to Aberford service into the franchise package then they will do that, regardless of any existing out-boundary services that overlap with it. They would then not grant a permit for Connexions to duplicate their franchised service.
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Post by rodneytrotter on Apr 6, 2024 11:28:35 GMT 1
What about the 164? Some Journeys run into North Yorkshire while others, just stay in West Yorkshire, but is operated by Castleford depot
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Post by stevieinselby on Apr 6, 2024 12:44:45 GMT 1
What about the 164? Some Journeys run into North Yorkshire while others, just stay in West Yorkshire, but is operated by Castleford depot Good question. Almost certain that the service between Leeds and Garforth will be franchised, I believe the current plans are for the whole route to Selby to be franchised but that could change – especially as NYC are looking to improve the 64/164 with BSIP funding, although I'm not sure exactly what they have in mind.
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Apr 6, 2024 14:02:23 GMT 1
Apologies if this question was already asked, but what will happen to routes like X98/8 with them being entirely in West Yorkshire and Transdev's 7 with the vast majority of the route being in West Yorkshire? Also, the Connexions depot is in Wetherby, but they run some services only in North Yorkshire such as the X12. What will happen to those routes when franchising happens? Any routes that WYCA wants to have as part of the franchise agreements will be part of the franchise agreements, regardless of who currently operates them and where their depot is. The X98/X99 are entirely within West Yorkshire and so will be included in franchising. The 7 is predominantly in West Yorkshire, so in my view should be included (at least as far as Wetherby), but at the moment it looks like WYCA are not including it and so are expecting Transdev to apply for a permit to run it. Connexions' depot is in North Yorkshire, and they stopped running the X12 at the start of last year. Many of their services are largely or wholly outside West Yorkshire, and will continue unchanged. According to bustimes.org the X12 still runs twice daily Mon-Fri, and vehicles have been tracking on it.
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Post by leedsbusman on Apr 6, 2024 14:32:29 GMT 1
What about the 164? Some Journeys run into North Yorkshire while others, just stay in West Yorkshire, but is operated by Castleford depot Good question. Almost certain that the service between Leeds and Garforth will be franchised, I believe the current plans are for the whole route to Selby to be franchised but that could change – especially as NYC are looking to improve the 64/164 with BSIP funding, although I'm not sure exactly what they have in mind. There’s a full list of services in the franchise scheme. www.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/media/12054/appendix-3-the-west-yorkshire-bus-franchising-scheme-march-2024.pdfIt doesn’t show the number just the description but I can’t see something matching the 164. The 64 is included (the first on the list) so it will be franchised now. Bonkers solutions to get round it would therefore not be successful, not that anyone would be daft enough to do that anyway.
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Post by rodneytrotter on Apr 6, 2024 14:49:58 GMT 1
I am guessing Arriva will need a permit to enter Pontefract then on the 476/493 I presume
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Post by leedsbusman on Apr 6, 2024 15:10:30 GMT 1
I am guessing Arriva will need a permit to enter Pontefract then on the 476/493 I presume Yup. If it’s not a franchised service a service permit will be required for any service that runs into West Yorkshire.
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Post by stevieinselby on Apr 6, 2024 16:40:24 GMT 1
Interesting that, as far as I can see, that list doesn't include any services operating across the county boundary (although no doubt I'll have missed something!), even routes like the Flyer A2 that are currently contracted by WYCA are omitted.
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Apr 6, 2024 17:08:07 GMT 1
Interesting that, as far as I can see, that list doesn't include any services operating across the county boundary (although no doubt I'll have missed something!), even routes like the Flyer A2 that are currently contracted by WYCA are omitted. I think their fate may still be under discussion as routes such as 587, 590/1/2 which should definitely end up getting franchised are not mentioned.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Apr 6, 2024 22:00:44 GMT 1
Interesting that, as far as I can see, that list doesn't include any services operating across the county boundary (although no doubt I'll have missed something!), even routes like the Flyer A2 that are currently contracted by WYCA are omitted. I think their fate may still be under discussion as routes such as 587, 590/1/2 which should definitely end up getting franchised are not mentioned. It would be odd if routes linking Halifax and Rochdale were not franchised by anyone, as they go entirely through franchised (or soon to be) regions.
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Apr 6, 2024 23:25:21 GMT 1
I think their fate may still be under discussion as routes such as 587, 590/1/2 which should definitely end up getting franchised are not mentioned. It would be odd if routes linking Halifax and Rochdale were not franchised by anyone, as they go entirely through franchised (or soon to be) regions. Not to mention 587 is one of WYCAs contracted services also!
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Post by rodneytrotter on Apr 17, 2024 18:21:59 GMT 1
I see that the Tory candidate for the mayor has said that if they get into office, they will go down the EP route, but if that doesn't work after a year then he will revert to franchising. www.acforwestyorkshire.co.uk/Scroll down to where it says West Yorkshire Mayor candidate comments on the bus franchisng debate and he gives his thoughts on there.
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Apr 17, 2024 18:33:40 GMT 1
I see that the Tory candidate for the mayor has said that if they get into office, they will go down the EP route, but if that doesn't work after a year then he will revert to franchising. www.acforwestyorkshire.co.uk/Scroll down to where it says West Yorkshire Mayor candidate comments on the bus franchisng debate and he gives his thoughts on there. They won't be too popular then, considering how about 80% of customers want franchising. With companies that are willing to co-operate like South Pennine CT and Transdev an EP+ would be good, but not when companies like First and Arriva dominate the area where they just end up cutting the route when they run out of funding, especially First. Arriva aren't even willing to treat their own drivers correctly, what makes them think theirs going to be enough drivers to run Arriva increased frequency routes, their recent changes have been proven useless.
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Post by rodneytrotter on Apr 17, 2024 18:38:17 GMT 1
What makes you think under franchising there will be enough drivers, especially if a new company takes over. I've seen Stagecoach drivers kicking off and being concerned about being taken over by Metroline under Tranche3.
The whole Bradford Interchange fiasco with the way its been handled, might make people think differently
How many of those 80 percent are willing to have an even more increased council tax bill on top of what they pay now?
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