mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Mar 11, 2024 18:00:37 GMT 1
For those who have forgot this date is where the decision for an EP+ or a franchised network will be revealed.
It's undeniably going to be a busy day for the forum, especially for this topic, so I thought a thread would be appropriate.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2024 19:07:58 GMT 1
Everyone should be held accountable, the companies, the WYCA, Metro, Councillors, Management of Bus Companies, stop this fighting between each other, especially between Metro and First, both sides should be accountable for any mistakes that happen.
Ideally I'd prefer the EP+ simply because of the cost, but if we do go down this method, the bus companies need to be held accountable, and whoever else.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Mar 11, 2024 19:09:30 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2024 19:26:30 GMT 1
It'd be a really sad day without Ross Travel being around Pontefract or Castleford, one of the best operators to exist in the county, smart drivers, modern buses, buses always clean and tidy.
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Post by shelf81 on Mar 11, 2024 19:51:52 GMT 1
It's certainly interesting times ahead as I think everyone can guess by now it will be Franchising, with South Yorkshire now looking likely to go down a similar route as well after the EP+ seemingly deemed a failure.
Hopefully West (& South) Yorkshire will learn from the issues experienced in Manchester for a smoother roll out, plus are able to lessen the losses to the smaller operators that have mostly been seen to do a good job (Stotts,Ross Travel,Longstaff/A. Lyles) compared to GM as well.
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Mar 11, 2024 19:56:12 GMT 1
It's certainly interesting times ahead as I think everyone can guess by now it will be Franchising, with South Yorkshire now looking likely to go down a similar route as well after the EP+ seemingly deemed a failure. Hopefully West (& South) Yorkshire will learn from the issues experienced in Manchester for a smoother roll out, plus are able to lessen the losses to the smaller operators that have mostly been seen to do a good job (Stotts,Ross Travel,Longstaff/A. Lyles) compared to GM as well. Although the last document was 2017, our PTE was the most profitable out of any in the UK We have the most profits to work with as well as far better infrastructure compared to other authorities. Metro is quite far ahead of many other PTEs, I think we take them for granted too much. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2024 19:56:20 GMT 1
What will happen to the South Pennine Routes, or are there routes not affected?
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Mar 11, 2024 20:32:54 GMT 1
What will happen to the South Pennine Routes, or are there routes not affected? Well 25A, 26A, 350, 351 and 353 could easily be kept as it would be easy to run them from Sheffield depot as for 352 and 357 they run into both franchising territories it's unknown what could happen. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2024 20:38:51 GMT 1
What will happen to the South Pennine Routes, or are there routes not affected? Well 25A, 26A, 350, 351 and 353 could easily be kept as it would be easy to run them from Sheffield depot as for 352 and 357 they run into both franchising territories it's unknown what could happen. Lets hope nothing happens to them, as South Pennine are a fantastic company one of the very best enabling lots of people to get out. I hope they don't get replaced by any of the big operators, who won't be able to provide as good as service on those routes like South Pennine |
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Mar 11, 2024 20:47:51 GMT 1
Well 25A, 26A, 350, 351 and 353 could easily be kept as it would be easy to run them from Sheffield depot as for 352 and 357 they run into both franchising territories it's unknown what could happen. Lets hope nothing happens to them, as South Pennine are a fantastic company one of the very best enabling lots of people to get out. I hope they don't get replaced by any of the big operators, who won't be able to provide as good as service on those routes like South Pennine My prediction is it may be easier for the smaller operators to bid for services in West Yorkshire as there's less of a threat with bigger companies compared to Greater Manchester as they had First, Stagecoach, Rotala, Go-Ahead and Arriva to beat which is actually 4/5 of the big five and Rotala probably being in the Big ten compared to West Yorkshire only really having the threat of Arriva, Transdev and First. I reckon TLC and South Pennine could manage staying but I am unsure about others. |
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Post by shelf81 on Mar 11, 2024 21:13:29 GMT 1
Lets hope nothing happens to them, as South Pennine are a fantastic company one of the very best enabling lots of people to get out. I hope they don't get replaced by any of the big operators, who won't be able to provide as good as service on those routes like South Pennine My prediction is it may be easier for the smaller operators to bid for services in West Yorkshire as there's less of a threat with bigger companies compared to Greater Manchester as they had First, Stagecoach, Rotala, Go-Ahead and Arriva to beat which is actually 4/5 of the big five and Rotala probably being in the Big ten compared to West Yorkshire only really having the threat of Arriva, Transdev and First. I reckon TLC and South Pennine could manage staying but I am unsure about others. Arriva didn't bid for any of GM due to DB not allowing the purchase of the required amount of new vehicles due to the sale. I Don't think the break down of how many B/C 'lots' there will be per round, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was something like a Holme Valley lot & Colne Valley lot (or both combined) what would be something the likes of South Pennine or Stotts could easily win. |
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Post by sharksmith on Mar 11, 2024 21:42:38 GMT 1
Lets hope nothing happens to them, as South Pennine are a fantastic company one of the very best enabling lots of people to get out. I hope they don't get replaced by any of the big operators, who won't be able to provide as good as service on those routes like South Pennine My prediction is it may be easier for the smaller operators to bid for services in West Yorkshire as there's less of a threat with bigger companies compared to Greater Manchester as they had First, Stagecoach, Rotala, Go-Ahead and Arriva to beat which is actually 4/5 of the big five and Rotala probably being in the Big ten compared to West Yorkshire only really having the threat of Arriva, Transdev and First. I reckon TLC and South Pennine could manage staying but I am unsure about others. With the profitability of Leeds what makes you think Stagecoach, Go Ahead, Rotala etc won't bid. I'd be surprised if at least two of them don't. Based on whatever happens in Manchester's tranche 3 results later this month someone's going to end up losing work overall and could be looking to make back some business. |
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Mar 11, 2024 21:48:47 GMT 1
Very good point.
Franchising allows for fierce competition and that could come from anyone, even outside of our region. It's much easier to justify expanding operations for a guaranteed income.
There's also is a rumour, albeit with little backing, but Abellio was rumoured to have bid for Tranche 3 in Greater Manchester
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Post by sharksmith on Mar 11, 2024 21:55:16 GMT 1
For those who have forgot this date is where the decision for an EP+ or a franchised network will be revealed. It's undeniably going to be a busy day for the forum, especially for this topic, so I thought a thread would be appropriate. When does consultation ever end up with any other result other than what government/local government want. It's just a paper exercise to say that they've consulted with the public. In any sane world we would wait five years to see how franchising in Manchester has gone but no rush in like sheep. I'm sure franchising will be the way we go though. I disagreed with deregulation in the past but don't see the need to return to regulation when the problems of the bus industry are mainly out of the control of the operators or the combined authority regardless of whoever is in charge. Change for changes sake, just like in every other part of society. |
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Post by shelf81 on Mar 11, 2024 22:03:56 GMT 1
Very good point. Franchising allows for fierce competition and that could come from anyone, even outside of our region. It's much easier to justify expanding operations for a guaranteed income. There's also is a rumour, albeit with little backing, but Abellio was rumoured to have bid for Tranche 3 in Greater Manchester More than just a rumour as they registered a licence for the North West around the time tranche 1 bids started, previously named Abellio North West now called Transport UK North West find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12667403RATP Group are also rumoured to have made a bid for Tranche 3 as well, with them already owning Selwyns Travel in South Manchester. |
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Post by deerfold on Mar 11, 2024 22:13:48 GMT 1
It might be an idea to rename this thread to what it's about rather than a date that might not be remembered in future.
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Mar 11, 2024 22:49:28 GMT 1
It might be an idea to rename this thread to what it's about rather than a date that might not be remembered in future. True, changed it |
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Post by stevieinselby on Mar 11, 2024 23:21:24 GMT 1
It'd be a really sad day without Ross Travel being around Pontefract or Castleford, one of the best operators to exist in the county, smart drivers, modern buses, buses always clean and tidy. Then let's hope they put in a decent bid! The WY proposal does like it's a lot more friendly towards small operators than the GM model was, so let's hope that some of those good independents are able to get contracts. |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Mar 11, 2024 23:49:19 GMT 1
It'd be a really sad day without Ross Travel being around Pontefract or Castleford, one of the best operators to exist in the county, smart drivers, modern buses, buses always clean and tidy. Then let's hope they put in a decent bid! The WY proposal does like it's a lot more friendly towards small operators than the GM model was, so let's hope that some of those good independents are able to get contracts. Scanning through the very long document, there has been consultation responses from some of the independents (Ross, J&B and Squarepeg seem to have given very detailed responses) pointing out that so far the TfGM scheme hasn’t been that friendly to small operators. It looks like lessons are being learnt and the WY scheme will be better in that regard |
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Post by stephen01 on Mar 12, 2024 1:08:27 GMT 1
Reading the report it looks like it the consultation could be extended. My biggest issue with the consultation process is that it's not been cater to allow workers the chance to have a say as the consultations, and the individual council ones, had been poorly planned so as not to include them and they've been poorly advertised (apart from the report). Although Franchising is looking likely i hate to be the one to point this out but it wont work given with got 2 if not 3 of the 5 councils potentially going to go bankrupt.
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Post by rwilkes on Mar 12, 2024 21:31:23 GMT 1
The bus companies employed a proper opinion poll which showed a small majority against franchising
WYCA had a self selected group with in built in favour of francishing, given union activism on this.
In Leicester and the North East CA the unions branches backed the bus companies.
Franchising is awful for staff as they are just units as are bus users
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i901
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Post by i901 on Mar 12, 2024 21:47:43 GMT 1
For those who have forgot this date is where the decision for an EP+ or a franchised network will be revealed. It's undeniably going to be a busy day for the forum, especially for this topic, so I thought a thread would be appropriate. We already know what the outcome is, the Mayor stood for election with a pledge to bring in franchising. Not too difficult to guess what the outcome of the review she's commissioned will be.... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2024 21:49:34 GMT 1
The bus companies employed a proper opinion poll which showed a small majority against franchising WYCA had a self selected group with in built in favour of francishing, given union activism on this. In Leicester and the North East CA the unions branches backed the bus companies. Franchising is awful for staff as they are just units as are bus users My feeling that if she had a consultation and if 95 percent of people was against franchising, franchising would still go ahead anyway. What would happen if Brabin doesn't get re elected as mayor and the successor doesn't want franchising. |
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Post by martinsfp on Mar 12, 2024 22:05:07 GMT 1
Counterpoint to the haters: the current system is unsustainably bad. A centrally organised and fully publicly accountable system, with aspirations to form part of a fully integrated bus, tram, and rail network in the future is a great step forward.
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Post by sharksmith on Mar 12, 2024 22:18:58 GMT 1
Counterpoint to the haters: the current system is unsustainably bad. A centrally organised and fully publicly accountable system, with aspirations to form part of a fully integrated bus, tram, and rail network in the future is a great step forward. Sorry, I have had a little chuckle about the phrase 'fully publicly accountable' Even the local councillors are having trouble getting information about Bradford Interchange, the public will have no chance! Also I really don't remember all the integration between bus and railways when the PTE & NBC were in charge last time. |
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