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Post by SCH117X on Sept 3, 2023 12:32:49 GMT 1
Pre live tracking systems they could have serious issues with the 36 - remember one day an enoromous queue at Harrogate bus station for a Ripon with the station supervisor apologising that all the buses had gone to Leeds and none had returned.
Its not unknown for a B7RLE to get used on the Ripon section as a fill in on none returning bus from Leeds and very late running Ripon workings from Leeds to be terminated at Harrogate as another vehicle has already formed the Ripon working.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2023 20:22:49 GMT 1
Can I suggest you go and see the spotted thread, where a Hecky driver said they're also suffering from staff shortages, so it isn't exclusively a Transdev problem is it.
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Post by SCH117X on Sept 3, 2023 21:59:54 GMT 1
More problems on the 36 route today with a "serious road accident" that has closed the A61 at South Stainley, beween Ripley and Ripon. Gemini 3617 stops tracking at 1417 at South Stainley, Cayton Hall. Workings have since then been running via Markington (the shortest diversion), via Boroughbridge or almost via Pateley Bridge - B6165 from Ripley then B6265
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Post by Craig on Sept 3, 2023 23:32:28 GMT 1
it is. I've flagged some of them and nothing been done Totally agree, noticed when people made derogatory comments against Yorkshire Tiger and Lady's Only Travel, they was quick to act on it. Trust me, plenty of inappropriate posts and threads made by several members get reviewed and removed if required.
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Username
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Post by Username on Sept 3, 2023 23:40:54 GMT 1
More problems on the 36 route today with a "serious road accident" that has closed the A61 at South Stainley, beween Ripley and Ripon. Gemini 3617 stops tracking at 1417 at South Stainley, Cayton Hall. Workings have since then been running via Markington (the shortest diversion), via Boroughbridge or almost via Pateley Bridge - B6165 from Ripley then B6265 but apparently that's "Transdevs fault"
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Post by chas on Sept 4, 2023 8:42:24 GMT 1
Totally agree, noticed when people made derogatory comments against Yorkshire Tiger and Lady's Only Travel, they was quick to act on it. Trust me, plenty of inappropriate posts and threads made by several members get reviewed and removed if required. The problem is that posts get read before being removed and in some cases people quite rightly get the hump. And well informed users leave, to the detriment of all of us.
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Post by Craig on Sept 4, 2023 11:09:15 GMT 1
Trust me, plenty of inappropriate posts and threads made by several members get reviewed and removed if required. The problem is that posts get read before being removed and in some cases people quite rightly get the hump. And well informed users leave, to the detriment of all of us. Indeed. Such is the problem with a live open forum. Only 24 hour moderation could fix that (and I’m not proposing that happens!). It’s much easier if everyone tries to remain conscious of not posting things that are likely to need removing.
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Post by SCH117X on Sept 4, 2023 12:11:21 GMT 1
More problems on the 36 route today with a "serious road accident" that has closed the A61 at South Stainley, beween Ripley and Ripon. Gemini 3617 stops tracking at 1417 at South Stainley, Cayton Hall. Workings have since then been running via Markington (the shortest diversion), via Boroughbridge or almost via Pateley Bridge - B6165 from Ripley then B6265 Confirmed that the bus was involved in the accident www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-66706228
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lucyp
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Post by lucyp on Sept 4, 2023 14:47:35 GMT 1
And as predicted, 12 cancellations on the 36 today. So much for back to every 10 minutes.
Add that to the 9 cancellations on other Harrogate services today.
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Post by SCH117X on Sept 4, 2023 17:34:25 GMT 1
And as predicted, 12 cancellations on the 36 today. So much for back to every 10 minutes. Add that to the 9 cancellations on other Harrogate services today. And how exactly where you affected by them ? Any thought that one driver is possibly in hospital but certainly unfit for work and they are one dedicated 36 vehicle down which has meant all serviceable non school double deckers bar those on the X98/X99 have been used on the 36 today - even your favourite 55 reg one managed a return trip to Leeds this morning,
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Post by Username on Sept 4, 2023 17:45:55 GMT 1
And as predicted, 12 cancellations on the 36 today. So much for back to every 10 minutes. Add that to the 9 cancellations on other Harrogate services today. Has it now become a hobby for you to binge watch cancellations made by Transdev daily? Also as someone's already mentioned. It's much better to cancel services on a frequency of every 10 minutes as if one bus cancels you only have to wait 20 minutes compared to half an hour like you used to on the every 15 minute frequency. The only thing bad about todays cancellations is the one journey on 21 as that doesn't run as often so you will have to wait a while for the next.
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Post by joseph on Sept 4, 2023 17:57:03 GMT 1
Arriva are really suffering the same issues (I know as I was stuck in Lightcliffe for over 2 hours a couple of Saturdays ago) and so I think what's radically needed is a scaling back of routes by all companies based on what realistically can be ran with an average number of drivers per day and some extras acting as spares in case things go wrong. For a number of months now, all companies have been short of drivers, so really they need to give up on endless recruiting/training, and just stick to what they have managed to operate on average. If that means routes like the X98/9 go down to hourly, or even 2 hourly, then that's the way it has to be. The 36 going down to every 20 minutes won't harm, maybe just upseat them to normal seats from an older withdrawn vehicle so extra capacity can be created if it comes down to it, after all what's better, a bus that allows as full a capacity as possible, or one with all the tech and tables but not enough seats.
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Sept 4, 2023 18:02:40 GMT 1
A route running every two hours? I'm gonna be real with you not a single soul on earth is ever gonna use that service The solution is to continue as normal, with better communication. A few cancellations is substantially better than a bus route being plummeted into a point of no return...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2023 18:14:24 GMT 1
A route running every two hours? I'm gonna be real with you not a single soul on earth is ever gonna use that service The solution is to continue as normal, with better communication. A few cancellations is substantially better than a bus route being plummeted into a point of no return... Not sure that's fair, as there is examples of routes running 2 Hourly that do have an OK amount of passengers (Yorks 22/3 or 840 to Whitby for examples within Transdev) I'd say it depends on what the frequency is to start with over if you look at reducing (although communications need to better in general), in the case of Route 36 surely Transdev should of known how their driver situation was like before reintroducing the 10 Min frequency to route 36 & If they knew they'd be short then it's fair to say they are guilty of poor management/planning.
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Post by deerfold on Sept 4, 2023 18:21:47 GMT 1
And as predicted, 12 cancellations on the 36 today. So much for back to every 10 minutes. Add that to the 9 cancellations on other Harrogate services today. Do you just pretend no-one else has posted when you post? Just wondering, as you don't ever seem to take anything anyone says on board. In positive news, it cost me £2 for my return journey into town today with Transdev. On my way home I noted an M4 showing as cancelled, but they seem to have worked it out as I saw it pass my house running about 5 minutes late. I wonder if any of the ones you post are later reinstated.
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Post by deerfold on Sept 4, 2023 18:23:55 GMT 1
A route running every two hours? I'm gonna be real with you not a single soul on earth is ever gonna use that service The solution is to continue as normal, with better communication. A few cancellations is substantially better than a bus route being plummeted into a point of no return... It's not an ideal frequency, but there's many routes around the country running at that frequency including some I catch occasionally.
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Post by SCH117X on Sept 4, 2023 18:29:22 GMT 1
One of todays cancellations was definately a vehicle issue - B7RLE 1861 failing at Morrisons in Boroughbridge so they posted the working onwards to Knaresborough was cancelled. Yesterdays incident, it took up to an hour and half from Harrogate to Ripon, was on top of services already being often 15 minutes late due to congestion in Leeds. All that potentially resulted in some excess driving hours being accumulated which probably was mitigated by calling drivers in and consequential unavailaiblity today.
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Sept 4, 2023 18:35:28 GMT 1
A route running every two hours? I'm gonna be real with you not a single soul on earth is ever gonna use that service The solution is to continue as normal, with better communication. A few cancellations is substantially better than a bus route being plummeted into a point of no return... It's not an ideal frequency, but there's many routes around the country running at that frequency including some I catch occasionally. Occasionally. Would you willingly wait two hours after a 9-5? Or even four hours when there's a cancellation? Anything under hourly is purely unacceptable. You literally would not be able to maintain a social life, work life, it is essentially equal to having no service from my perspective.
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Post by deerfold on Sept 4, 2023 18:53:57 GMT 1
It's not an ideal frequency, but there's many routes around the country running at that frequency including some I catch occasionally. Occasionally. Would you willingly wait two hours after a 9-5? Or even four hours when there's a cancellation? Anything under hourly is purely unacceptable. You literally would not be able to maintain a social life, work life, it is essentially equal to having no service from my perspective. They seem to be reasons why you would never use a service like that, not why no-one would. I once used a service that only ran 3 times a day. But it ran at good times for me to get to work and back. Was hopeless if I met up with people after work for a drink, though. I still occasionally catch the 586 in Halifax. It's very annoying that it's only every two hours. But better than the fare of the 539 at the same time. Frequency of bus service is important to me, which is why I live on a road with 7 buses an hour. But I used to live on the route of the 586 - Rishworth used to have 3 buses an hour into Halifax. 0.5bph an hour is a horrendous drop, but not as bad as no service.
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Post by mattb7tl on Sept 4, 2023 19:08:54 GMT 1
Occasionally. Would you willingly wait two hours after a 9-5? Or even four hours when there's a cancellation? Anything under hourly is purely unacceptable. You literally would not be able to maintain a social life, work life, it is essentially equal to having no service from my perspective. They seem to be reasons why you would never use a service like that, not why no-one would. I once used a service that only ran 3 times a day. But it ran at good times for me to get to work and back. Was hopeless if I met up with people after work for a drink, though. I still occasionally catch the 586 in Halifax. It's very annoying that it's only every two hours. But better than the fare of the 539 at the same time. Frequency of bus service is important to me, which is why I live on a road with 7 buses an hour. But I used to live on the route of the 586 - Rishworth used to have 3 buses an hour into Halifax. 0.5bph an hour is a horrendous drop, but not as bad as no service. My reasons for commuting are the same the large majority of people. Commuting, shopping, and leisure. If you reduce a well used bus route down to a two hour frequency, you'll force people into cars, and they'll likely never return to buses, other than at best a couple trips a month. It would cause damage that genuinely wouldn't be fixable. Just to minimise a slightly inconvenient problem?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2023 19:30:44 GMT 1
They seem to be reasons why you would never use a service like that, not why no-one would. I once used a service that only ran 3 times a day. But it ran at good times for me to get to work and back. Was hopeless if I met up with people after work for a drink, though. I still occasionally catch the 586 in Halifax. It's very annoying that it's only every two hours. But better than the fare of the 539 at the same time. Frequency of bus service is important to me, which is why I live on a road with 7 buses an hour. But I used to live on the route of the 586 - Rishworth used to have 3 buses an hour into Halifax. 0.5bph an hour is a horrendous drop, but not as bad as no service. My reasons for commuting are the same the large majority of people. Commuting, shopping, and leisure. If you reduce a well used bus route down to a two hour frequency, you'll force people into cars, and they'll likely never return to buses, other than at best a couple trips a month. It would cause damage that genuinely wouldn't be fixable. Just to minimise a slightly inconvenient problem? but Cancellations cause damage to the company 'brand' & a poor reputation can take longer to restore than a frequency when you do have enough drivers to cover everything. If someone moves to the car because their bus has gone from 10 to 15 Mins,or Hourly to 2 Hourly or whatever else, Advertising the full frequency being restored is alot easier than someone saying they moved to a car because they got tired of waiting around for buses that never appeared & trying to regain their trust again.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 4, 2023 19:31:47 GMT 1
I think the only place a 2 hourly frequency is acceptable is in a very rural area where the bus serves a load of small villages and then only ends up at a fairly small town at the end of it
I think pretty much everything in West Yorkshire should be at least hourly
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2023 19:42:25 GMT 1
Give me a 2 hourly frequency over a the DRT type of thing any day of the week.
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Post by joseph on Sept 4, 2023 20:16:34 GMT 1
Or a more radical solution would be to replace both the X98/9 with an hourly one way circular service from Wetherby via Collingham and East Keswick back to Wetherby with Linton not served at all. Wetherby is already served by the 7 from Leeds (it's probably about 15 minutes longer but it's a service) and Scarcroft could be served by diverting the 781 and 923. Scarcroft and Linton are really car villages in reality, you do see people using the bus from these areas to/from Leeds but it's not exactly a queue. Not great I know, with links to Leeds lost for the majority, but with struggling driver resources something like this needs to start happening, either that or reliability really takes a hit.
Another example is Lightcliffe, does it need the 571 and 255, defo not so why not axe the 255 beyond Cleckheaton, would save a driver. It's probably going to take the same amount of time to reach Leeds going via Bradford from Scholes/Wyke, and the 255 as is it isn't all that reliable in reality so has probably lost a lot of custom anyway. The 571 could be amended so it serves Brighouse train station and links into trains to Leeds to satisfy Lightcliffe passengers, the rest of the 255 route into Halifax is already covered by the 548/9 with Leeds passengers able to change onto a 508 at Shibden, or the train at Halifax. Again not great to do this, but the current situation of never ending driver shortages won't change so reliability just suffers, and waiting 2 hours plus in Lightcliffe with it's lack of shelters just puts people right back in their car.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2023 20:22:27 GMT 1
Or a more radical solution would be to replace both the X98/9 with an hourly one way circular service from Wetherby via Collingham and East Keswick back to Wetherby with Linton not served at all. Wetherby is already served by the 7 from Leeds (it's probably about 15 minutes longer but it's a service) and Scarcroft could be served by diverting the 781 and 923. Scarcroft and Linton are really car villages in reality, you do see people using the bus from these areas to/from Leeds but it's not exactly a queue. Not great I know, with links to Leeds lost for the majority, but with struggling driver resources something like this needs to start happening, either that or reliability really takes a hit. Another example is Lightcliffe, does it need the 571 and 255, defo not so why not axe the 255 beyond Cleckheaton, would save a driver. It's probably going to take the same amount of time to reach Leeds going via Bradford from Scholes/Wyke, and the 255 as is it isn't all that reliable in reality so has probably lost a lot of custom anyway. The 571 could be amended so it serves Brighouse train station and links into trains to Leeds to satisfy Lightcliffe passengers, the rest of the 255 route into Halifax is already covered by the 548/9 with Leeds passengers able to change onto a 508 at Shibden, or the train at Halifax. Again not great to do this, but the current situation of never ending driver shortages won't change so reliability just suffers, and waiting 2 hours plus in Lightcliffe with it's lack of shelters just puts people right back in their car. The X98/9 Circular suggestion could have merit in it if providing a service to Leeds is really that impossible but what you said over 255 is completely ignoring it being the last link from Halifax to the Spen Valley (or indeed all of North Kirklees) rather than just focusing on Leeds.
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