joseph
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Post by joseph on Sept 10, 2022 7:34:02 GMT 1
With the possible withdrawal of the 571, I bet South Pennine invest in a bigger vehicle for the HX1 and introduce more journeys.
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Post by steviewevie on Sept 10, 2022 8:45:07 GMT 1
Some of the Arriva cuts are quite staggering. The evening service on the 444 is cut completely leaving Lee Moor, Ouzlewell Green and Carlton without any bus service whatsoever. That leaves only the 446 serving Stanley and Rothwell and makes evenings out by bus a complete non-starter with only an hourly service. Also the last bus now leaves Wakefield at 2220, earlier than ever before. How long will it be before the 446 is gone as 'nobody is using it'? Also the last vestiges of services from Pontefract and Castleford to Doncaster have disappeared completely and we seem to be left with an isolated from the rest of Arriva's network service 51 running from Doncaster to Askern. How reliable is that going to be. No doubt the Arriva dead milage will increase again. All this whilst the Mayors are trying to increase bus travel!
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Post by dennisthemenace504 on Sept 10, 2022 9:48:16 GMT 1
You mean the old 225 Unfortunately, on evenings, the current 254A will be renumbered just 254 and terminate at Cleckheaton from Leeds not serving Scholes. When the 255 was first introduced it operated to Brighouse via Scholes replacing the daytime 225 services (225 remained as an afternoon peak service from Leeds) until 2009,where it was rerouted to Halifax from Scholes via it's current route (partly replacing 227?) I Think the 256 went to hourly to replace the Brighouse section at the time. The evening journeys via Scholes are a Metro Contract as its been operated by other companies before,so it might be someone else has won the contract & it's still to be announced. Having lived in Scholes since 1987, the 255 has always, since its introduction in the mid 2000's done Leeds - Halifax (replacing the 223/224 section from Leeds to Cleck and 227 from Cleck to Halifax), in 2009 it WAS suggested that the short 255's that terminated at Scholes, would be extended to Brighouse to replace the 256, which at that time was an all day service but would then only operate at Peak Times, this didn't happen, as Metro suggested that instead of scrapping the original ML 2 (Scholes) & ML 3 (Hunsworth), they would join them 2 together and extend to Brighouse from Scholes which became 259. Yes, you're correct that the evening 254A is tendered, IF someone else was to take on the tendered 254A, someone on here would've posted something about it, most members do look at the Traffic Commissioner and other sites and for any other operator to take it over from October 3rd, it would've been registered by now. So now for me to have an alcoholic drink, I'm gonna have to spend £5 minimum on a taxi (price of taxi from Cleckheaton to Scholes), £3 more than what it would cost me on the bus at the Mayors Fares rate
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Post by tyresmoke on Sept 10, 2022 11:15:15 GMT 1
With another huge reduction in the network operated from Selby, how much longer will they survive? The 405 and 408/9 is a large chunk of their work gone.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 10, 2022 11:16:48 GMT 1
Scholes is a funny one where they also have an extensive service to Bradford every 20 minutes during the day but then evenings and Sundays they have nothing.
Hopefully some of those services being sped up will lead to increased passengers, I’m sure we’ve all been on some of these routes where the bus keeps pulling off the main road to go round estates or tiny villages and nobody hardly ever gets on and it all takes ages
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Sept 10, 2022 11:33:07 GMT 1
Years ago, I used to catch a late 444 from Wakefield to Ledwell Lane almost nightly, very few used to alight on that section so I'm guessing that's not changed. It's not that far from most parts of that section of route to the 110 or 446 anyway, maybe Lee Moor is an exception but that's not a big catchment area so not surprised this part has lost it's evening bus.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2022 13:06:58 GMT 1
When the 255 was first introduced it operated to Brighouse via Scholes replacing the daytime 225 services (225 remained as an afternoon peak service from Leeds) until 2009,where it was rerouted to Halifax from Scholes via it's current route (partly replacing 227?) I Think the 256 went to hourly to replace the Brighouse section at the time. The evening journeys via Scholes are a Metro Contract as its been operated by other companies before,so it might be someone else has won the contract & it's still to be announced. Having lived in Scholes since 1987, the 255 has always, since its introduction in the mid 2000's done Leeds - Halifax (replacing the 223/224 section from Leeds to Cleck and 227 from Cleck to Halifax), in 2009 it WAS suggested that the short 255's that terminated at Scholes, would be extended to Brighouse to replace the 256, which at that time was an all day service but would then only operate at Peak Times, this didn't happen, as Metro suggested that instead of scrapping the original ML 2 (Scholes) & ML 3 (Hunsworth), they would join them 2 together and extend to Brighouse from Scholes which became 259. Yes, you're correct that the evening 254A is tendered, IF someone else was to take on the tendered 254A, someone on here would've posted something about it, most members do look at the Traffic Commissioner and other sites and for any other operator to take it over from October 3rd, it would've been registered by now. So now for me to have an alcoholic drink, I'm gonna have to spend £5 minimum on a taxi (price of taxi from Cleckheaton to Scholes), £3 more than what it would cost me on the bus at the Mayors Fares rate Although there doesn't seem to be any showing the destination,theres a few pictures showing the original 255 branding - it does look like i was wrong with it serving Scholes when going to Brighouse so this 254 does fully recreate that route flickr.com/photos/35759580@N03/3409785726flickr.com/photos/x10lynxman/8374299458/flickr.com/photos/mals_uk_buses/8367768971/I Hadn't thought about people looking at the TC website,if nothing does appear (as theres still a few weeks) it might be Metro didn't get any bids due to the driver situation.
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Post by stevieinselby on Sept 10, 2022 13:54:43 GMT 1
With another huge reduction in the network operated from Selby, how much longer will they survive? The 405 and 408/9 is a large chunk of their work gone. The current 405 and 408/409 timetables require 7 buses to run an hourly service to Selby and Pontefract. The new 51 timetable will require 4 buses to run a half-hourly service to Askern. So it's only a reduction of 3 diagrams, not the full whack. But it will leave Whitley, Wentbridge, Thorpe Audlin, Womersley and Kirk Smeaton with no buses at all (not counting school buses) - and only a skeleton service to Eggborough and Darrington. Will be interesting to see whether NYCC will eventually step in to offer something to this area.
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i901
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Post by i901 on Sept 10, 2022 18:36:15 GMT 1
With another huge reduction in the network operated from Selby, how much longer will they survive? The 405 and 408/9 is a large chunk of their work gone. The current 405 and 408/409 timetables require 7 buses to run an hourly service to Selby and Pontefract. The new 51 timetable will require 4 buses to run a half-hourly service to Askern. So it's only a reduction of 3 diagrams, not the full whack. But it will leave Whitley, Wentbridge, Thorpe Audlin, Womersley and Kirk Smeaton with no buses at all (not counting school buses) - and only a skeleton service to Eggborough and Darrington. Will be interesting to see whether NYCC will eventually step in to offer something to this area. WY Metro have put a tender out for the WY Parts of the 408/9 - 2 hourly each from Pontefract as far as Thorpe Audlin (408) and a loop around Womersley and Kirk Smeaton (409), which give an hourly service combined Pontefract to Darrington. The 51 is an odd one for Arriva - lots of dead mileage between the depot and (presumably) Askern to do driver swaps. I'd have thought a skeleton 405 (or X45) service between Askern and Selby running on to/off of 51 would be provided to at least take some income on all that dead mileage...
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i901
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Post by i901 on Sept 10, 2022 18:37:12 GMT 1
With the possible withdrawal of the 571, I bet South Pennine invest in a bigger vehicle for the HX1 and introduce more journeys. A tender is currently out seeking a replacement operator for the 571.
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i901
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Post by i901 on Sept 10, 2022 18:39:09 GMT 1
Wish the same could be said for the 163/166! Reduced service on an evening and no buses at all along Fairburn Drive in favour of sending the 164 down Sturton Lane where there's already the 19/19A. East Leeds changes are a disgrace. Halving the morning and evening frequency, 2 hour later service start on a Sunday on 163, Fairburn Drive cut off altogether, Little Preston cut off, everywhere beyond Garforth Main St cut off from Seacroft Hospital, chunks of Allerton Bywater left without buses to Kippax and Garforth. An absolute joke. Sadly Arriva, nationally as well as well as locally, have very much lost the plot. They remind me of First in the Lockhead era - death by a thousand cuts
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 10, 2022 19:18:24 GMT 1
Besides the 405/8/9 and the Leeds commuter services which are being withdrawn, I’d say from looking that the rest of it is PVR neutral
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Post by pub146g on Sept 10, 2022 23:16:11 GMT 1
Well, I gave up my car in 1998 purely because I’m a bus person through and through, even when I had the car I probably used the bus more than I used my car and in all honesty I haven’t really missed having a car. Using public transport from North Leeds I’ve never had a problem getting to wherever I need to be, whether local or afar. Yes, timetables change, routes sometimes change but do you know what? I just adapt and get on with my day. Now, I know it’s fashionable to slag off public transport and don’t get me wrong, sometimes it’s justified, but to be forever whinging as some folk do, particularly in the T & A and YEP, and on this forum I just find tedious and boring. Whilst I’m not overly familiar with the Arriva routes in question the fact is if not enough folk use the bus then the timetable will probably change and before we get on about promoting services to entice new users we have to accept that some areas are almost 100% car centric and the folk in those areas just will not use the bus, even if it stopped at their garden gate to pick them up personally. Many people won’t use the bus due to the perception of bus travel they have grown up to believe; Safety concerns, anti-social behaviour, uneasiness about sitting next to anyone they did not know, personal hygiene of other passengers etc etc. Believe me these are all reasons why many folk won’t use public transport, much research has been carried out on this and can easily be found doing a quick Google. Now, me being a seasoned bus traveller I can discount most of those perceptions but it’s a fact this is a major barrier to attracting new users. I used to use buses to get absolutely everywhere for years and a was a huge advocate of public transport. However in the past couple of years it has become too much of a hassle to get where I want to go by bus when I can just jump in the car instead and be there in half the time. For example my area used to have a direct bus to Bradford. Since it was axed, the options now are either a long walk up hill then catch 2 different buses or get a bus to Greengates and wait for a 645, which from experience fails to show up a lot of the time, especially after around 6pm. We also used to have 4 buses per hour towards Leeds. We now have 2. Whilst I know some areas would love to have a 30 minute frequency: the population of my area demands a more frequent service. It is as easy for me to jump in the car and park in town for the same price as it is to use the bus, and I can do so at my leisure. I imagine people; especially those living in Arriva land will be hesitant to commit to using the bus for work in case it changes route unexpectedly without any consultation. Ultimately you're at the mercy of a team of people who (by looking at Facebook comments) don't appear to know the demands of their own customers. I know where you're coming from, I meet up every week with a mate from Rodley for a few beers in Leeds Centre. On an evening he catches ether the 16A or a 60 to Leeds which is fine, but getting back after 23:00 is a different ball game. On Sunday evenings he catches the 23:37 50 (which only runs on a Sunday!) from Headrow to Horsforth and walks down the Ring Rd to Rodley which is about 30 minutes. Like me he's a seasoned bus traveller, but how many normal (!) folk would do that?
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Sept 11, 2022 6:31:34 GMT 1
I wonder why the mayors of West and South Yorkshire don't work together for the good of the people they are elected to represent? Surely they can come up with some form of joint funding for a cross boundary network as the only regular cross boundary route between West and South Yorkshire now looks to be the 59. The rest is made up of the South Pennine network which is very concerning to see. Besides, given a choice between Doncaster and Pontefract, it's dead obvious most would choose Doncaster so why deny people the choice for employment and leisure opportunities in a better bigger location just because you want to protect places you represent? Makes sense for the South Yorkshire mayor to work with the West Yorkshire one based on more wanting to go to Doncaster so I don't understand why they aren't offering to wholly subsidise the routes between both towns.
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Post by rwilkes on Sept 11, 2022 8:10:25 GMT 1
Write to Metro! If just a few write it will help.
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Post by stephen01 on Sept 11, 2022 10:27:55 GMT 1
I wonder why the mayors of West and South Yorkshire don't work together for the good of the people they are elected to represent? Surely they can come up with some form of joint funding for a cross boundary network as the only regular cross boundary route between West and South Yorkshire now looks to be the 59. The rest is made up of the South Pennine network which is very concerning to see. Besides, given a choice between Doncaster and Pontefract, it's dead obvious most would choose Doncaster so why deny people the choice for employment and leisure opportunities in a better bigger location just because you want to protect places you represent? Makes sense for the South Yorkshire mayor to work with the West Yorkshire one based on more wanting to go to Doncaster so I don't understand why they aren't offering to wholly subsidise the routes between both towns. You've also got Globe's 96 & 97 as well as the 198. There's even Waterson's 36.
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Username
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I need to get my eyes checked, I've just seen a Streetlite and my eyes are burning
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Post by Username on Sept 11, 2022 10:36:53 GMT 1
I wonder why the mayors of West and South Yorkshire don't work together for the good of the people they are elected to represent? Surely they can come up with some form of joint funding for a cross boundary network as the only regular cross boundary route between West and South Yorkshire now looks to be the 59. The rest is made up of the South Pennine network which is very concerning to see. Besides, given a choice between Doncaster and Pontefract, it's dead obvious most would choose Doncaster so why deny people the choice for employment and leisure opportunities in a better bigger location just because you want to protect places you represent? Makes sense for the South Yorkshire mayor to work with the West Yorkshire one based on more wanting to go to Doncaster so I don't understand why they aren't offering to wholly subsidise the routes between both towns. Stagecoach also run hourly in to Pontefract from Barnsley with the 28.
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Post by kommie123 on Sept 11, 2022 11:24:41 GMT 1
What is Arrivas new obsession with Brighouse? I was told that almost all services on the 228 between Clifton and Cleckheaton were empty. I remember the old 256 and almost noone but me was on the bus until Clifton.
Now it's getting an extension and running Sundays! I can only assume they are going to compete with the train off peak!! May have been an idea to trial perhaps an hourly 254A (the Brighouse 254 journeys) via Hunsworth considering the more built up areas. That used to get a few people using the X25.
Also anyone noticed Windy Bank Estate is without a bus and the evening service is decimated on the old 254 route (now 200).
I do recall I lot of people from that area of Cleckheaton who used to use the bus all the way through to Leeds. Doubt they'd want to stay on the 200 through Morley etc.
The 163/4/6 changes are just odd, especially the 164 shorts. Why not divert a 175 via Fairburn Drive as a compromise then.
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twy7
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Post by twy7 on Sept 11, 2022 12:26:04 GMT 1
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twy7
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Post by twy7 on Sept 11, 2022 12:34:16 GMT 1
Well, I gave up my car in 1998 purely because I’m a bus person through and through, even when I had the car I probably used the bus more than I used my car and in all honesty I haven’t really missed having a car. Using public transport from North Leeds I’ve never had a problem getting to wherever I need to be, whether local or afar. Yes, timetables change, routes sometimes change but do you know what? I just adapt and get on with my day. Now, I know it’s fashionable to slag off public transport and don’t get me wrong, sometimes it’s justified, but to be forever whinging as some folk do, particularly in the T & A and YEP, and on this forum I just find tedious and boring. Whilst I’m not overly familiar with the Arriva routes in question the fact is if not enough folk use the bus then the timetable will probably change and before we get on about promoting services to entice new users we have to accept that some areas are almost 100% car centric and the folk in those areas just will not use the bus, even if it stopped at their garden gate to pick them up personally. Many people won’t use the bus due to the perception of bus travel they have grown up to believe; Safety concerns, anti-social behaviour, uneasiness about sitting next to anyone they did not know, personal hygiene of other passengers etc etc. Believe me these are all reasons why many folk won’t use public transport, much research has been carried out on this and can easily be found doing a quick Google. Now, me being a seasoned bus traveller I can discount most of those perceptions but it’s a fact this is a major barrier to attracting new users. I used to use buses to get absolutely everywhere for years and a was a huge advocate of public transport. However in the past couple of years it has become too much of a hassle to get where I want to go by bus when I can just jump in the car instead and be there in half the time. For example my area used to have a direct bus to Bradford. Since it was axed, the options now are either a long walk up hill then catch 2 different buses or get a bus to Greengates and wait for a 645, which from experience fails to show up a lot of the time, especially after around 6pm. We also used to have 4 buses per hour towards Leeds. We now have 2. Whilst I know some areas would love to have a 30 minute frequency: the population of my area demands a more frequent service. It is as easy for me to jump in the car and park in town for the same price as it is to use the bus, and I can do so at my leisure. I imagine people; especially those living in Arriva land will be hesitant to commit to using the bus for work in case it changes route unexpectedly without any consultation. Ultimately you're at the mercy of a team of people who (by looking at Facebook comments) don't appear to know the demands of their own customers. It wont just be about demand of customer and most reduction i think will be what they can afford to run. Some of them made I know are right because I have been on them service and no one gets on or off. Other I do not know but I will say it is not as bad as what I thought might happen but may be this is because the funding was extended?
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twy7
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Post by twy7 on Sept 11, 2022 12:38:33 GMT 1
East Leeds changes are a disgrace. Halving the morning and evening frequency, 2 hour later service start on a Sunday on 163, Fairburn Drive cut off altogether, Little Preston cut off, everywhere beyond Garforth Main St cut off from Seacroft Hospital, chunks of Allerton Bywater left without buses to Kippax and Garforth. An absolute joke. Sadly Arriva, nationally as well as well as locally, have very much lost the plot. They remind me of First in the Lockhead era - death by a thousand cuts Not just arriva if rumour are anything to be said because big cut at First as well even not in the lockhead era. It do hope this is all the cuts now and there are hoping no more
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jst
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Post by jst on Sept 11, 2022 13:44:40 GMT 1
The 163/4/6 changes are just odd, especially the 164 shorts. Why not divert a 175 via Fairburn Drive as a compromise then. Arriva say the 164 changes are to help those on Fairburn Drive, those who could manage the trek to East Garforth Station would get the train or the 19/19A anyway.. The 175 would be a partial compromise but is only every two hours on average so still a huge service reduction and offers massively longer journey times to Kippax and Castleford (ironically in different directions on the 175!)
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Post by stantheman on Sept 11, 2022 23:13:13 GMT 1
Really disappointed about the X80 being withdrawn. That’s the bus I use to work. It’s not as busy as it was granted, but it’s still reasonably well used. The alternatives 110/444 etc are not as convenient. The 110 doesn’t go to the top of Leeds, and the 444 takes too long to get to Leeds.
I’m not sure the new X80 route has done it any favours. I wonder how many people really travel in from Normanton.
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Post by steviewevie on Sept 12, 2022 8:28:44 GMT 1
The X80 would have been better serving City Fields and then turning right into Wakefield via Doncaster Road but I suppose the idea was to provide a direct bus from Normanton to Leeds in the peak as the 189 only runs between Castleford and Wakefield these days (a mistake in my opinion).
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Post by dennisthemenace504 on Sept 12, 2022 10:46:00 GMT 1
Having lived in Scholes since 1987, the 255 has always, since its introduction in the mid 2000's done Leeds - Halifax (replacing the 223/224 section from Leeds to Cleck and 227 from Cleck to Halifax), in 2009 it WAS suggested that the short 255's that terminated at Scholes, would be extended to Brighouse to replace the 256, which at that time was an all day service but would then only operate at Peak Times, this didn't happen, as Metro suggested that instead of scrapping the original ML 2 (Scholes) & ML 3 (Hunsworth), they would join them 2 together and extend to Brighouse from Scholes which became 259. Yes, you're correct that the evening 254A is tendered, IF someone else was to take on the tendered 254A, someone on here would've posted something about it, most members do look at the Traffic Commissioner and other sites and for any other operator to take it over from October 3rd, it would've been registered by now. So now for me to have an alcoholic drink, I'm gonna have to spend £5 minimum on a taxi (price of taxi from Cleckheaton to Scholes), £3 more than what it would cost me on the bus at the Mayors Fares rate Although there doesn't seem to be any showing the destination,theres a few pictures showing the original 255 branding - it does look like i was wrong with it serving Scholes when going to Brighouse so this 254 does fully recreate that route flickr.com/photos/35759580@N03/3409785726flickr.com/photos/x10lynxman/8374299458/flickr.com/photos/mals_uk_buses/8367768971/I Hadn't thought about people looking at the TC website,if nothing does appear (as theres still a few weeks) it might be Metro didn't get any bids due to the driver situation. I must apologise cp2012, now you've added photos of 255 Brighouse branding, and one having that date 1/4/09 attached. I went and got out my 2009 work diary, and on the Friday 17 April 2009, I did actually drive 255 to Brighouse (photo of duty content attached), the old grey matter must be failing me. Attachments:
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