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Post by deerfold on Sept 30, 2022 22:00:04 GMT 1
As a timetable change I'd reorganise the whole 256/9 bus route situation. I would make all journeys on 256 renumbered 259A and the journeys retime it with the 259 to provide a more regular service on 259. I will also reroute the 256 to more of the 259 route. Journeys from Brighouse combined will leave at: 07:00 (B), 10:00 (EB), 11:00 (EB), 12:00 (EB), 13:00 (EB), 14:00 (EB), 15:10 (B), 16:10 (B), 17:20 (B), 18:10 (B) Is there much call for that level of service? Unusual to have a three hour gap and then no gaps larger than 70 minutes. Do "B" and "EB" mean something?
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Post by Username on Oct 1, 2022 22:10:37 GMT 1
As a timetable change I'd reorganise the whole 256/9 bus route situation. I would make all journeys on 256 renumbered 259A and the journeys retime it with the 259 to provide a more regular service on 259. I will also reroute the 256 to more of the 259 route. Journeys from Brighouse combined will leave at: 07:00 (B), 10:00 (EB), 11:00 (EB), 12:00 (EB), 13:00 (EB), 14:00 (EB), 15:10 (B), 16:10 (B), 17:20 (B), 18:10 (B) Is there much call for that level of service? Unusual to have a three hour gap and then no gaps larger than 70 minutes. Do "B" and "EB" mean something? EB means East Bierly and B means Bradford.
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Post by Username on Nov 4, 2022 19:04:31 GMT 1
I would add an hourly 278 service between Halifax and Wakefield. I would send it via the old 573 route between Halifax and Salterhebble before having it follow the previous 278 route but running down Rasterick Common into Brighouse Town Centre. The route will pretty much be direct from their to Dewbsury but will also be routed the fastest route that runs via Ossett Bus Station to make it quicker to Wakefield than the 126 but slower than the 268.
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Post by Username on Nov 4, 2022 19:50:04 GMT 1
Proposed Changes for North Kirlees I would do:
Service 200 Leeds - White Rose - Birstall - Cleckheaton - Hightown - Heckmondwike This service would be withdrawn between Heckmondwike and Cleckheaton and will no longer serve Heckmondwike. People between Cleckheaton and Heckmonwike would need to use service 250. This service will instead be revised to run every half hour between Leeds and Cleckheaton and hourly between Cleckheaton and Windy Bank. This service will run via First Avenue and Third Avenue and on to Windy Bank Lane to create a loop around the estate before running back on to Halifax Road and back to Cleckheaton.
Service 250 Dewsbury - Dewsbury Moor - Heckmonwike - Liversedge - Moorside - Cleckheaton This service will have a revised timetable to replace the 200/261 between Heckmondwike and Dewsbury as well as replacing the old 254 which was withdrawn.
Service 261 Huddersfield - Kirkheaton - Mirfield - Robertown - Heckmondwike - Cleckheaton This service would be withdrawn between Heckmondwike and Cleckheaton and will be replaced by an extension of the 250 service.
Also I would renumber the 205 between Dewsbury and Pudsey/Owlcotes Centre as I have noticed a few people getting confused with Longstaffs version. I would renumber this 205 to 215 so it matches with services of 212/213.
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Post by Username on Nov 4, 2022 20:39:49 GMT 1
Proposed Calderdale service changes:
509 Mixenden - Halifax This service will be withdrawn and replaced with reorganised 510/511/512.
510 Halifax - Hebble Lane - Mixenden This service will operate between Halifax and Mixenden Clough Lane only with journeys on 511/512 currently covering the evening service. The timetable will remain at a Half hourly frequency but with a revised timetable. Journeys on Sundays and Mon - Sat evenings will run hourly with no Sunday evening service.
511 Halifax - Mount Tabor - Mixenden - Wheatly Road - Halifax This service will operate half hourly Monday to Saturday Daytime and will run hourly on Evenings and Sundays with one bus an hour serving Wainstalls. This service will no longer serve Hambleton Estate
512 Halifax - Wheatly Road - Mixenden - Mount Tabor - Halifax This service will operate half hourly with a revised timetable and will now serve Wainstalls once every hour. This service will no longer serve Hambleton Estate.
513 Halifax - Mount Tabor - Wainstalls - Mixenden - Wheatly Road - Halifax This service will be withdrawn and replaced by revised 511 and 512.
524 Halifax - Ovenden - Mixenden - Hambleton Estate This service will be extended to terminate at Hambleton Estate to replace the 511/512. Since Team Pennine tend to use smaller vehicles on this service, this will be a more sensible choice of routes for the Hambleton Estate in Mixenden with the service running a clockwise loop around the estate.
555 Halifax - Siddal This service will be brought back with a bit of rerouting and will run as an hourly service Monday to Saturday. This service will run down Hornton Street and then a long to Church Street,so the nestle factory and Minister can be served Berry Lane, Bailey Hall Road, Siddal New Road, Whitegate on to Siddal Top Lane and down Pheobe Lane and then on to Siddal Lane before running down Siddal Street in to Backhold Lane.
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Post by mattb7tl on Nov 19, 2022 17:11:13 GMT 1
The 370's and the 328 starting from the bus station in BOTH directions! It's such a weird choice to leave these routes outside? They're definitely the most popular routes in Huddersfield, yet they get left outside during the rain and heat? I'm going to attempt to get this changed, any suggestions on ways to approach this issue? Being left outside at this time of year with... driver shortages still prevalent, no proper shelter, as well as no comfortable places to sit? It is not exactly a fun experience!
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Post by Username on Nov 19, 2022 17:41:18 GMT 1
The 370's and the 328 starting from the bus station in BOTH directions! It's such a weird choice to leave these routes outside? They're definitely the most popular routes in Huddersfield, yet they get left outside during the rain and heat? I'm going to attempt to get this changed, any suggestions on ways to approach this issue? Being left outside at this time of year with... driver shortages still prevalent, no proper shelter, as well as no comfortable places to sit? It is not exactly a fun experience! Don't the Lindley routes run to the bus station now when heading to Lindley now anyways?
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Post by deerfold on Nov 19, 2022 20:05:40 GMT 1
I'm going to attempt to get this changed, any suggestions on ways to approach this issue? Being left outside at this time of year with... driver shortages still prevalent, no proper shelter, as well as no comfortable places to sit? It is not exactly a fun experience! Don't the Lindley routes run to the bus station now when heading to Lindley now anyways? The 328 to Crossland Moor and 370/1/2 to Lindley both use the bus station.
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Post by joseph on Nov 20, 2022 13:10:30 GMT 1
I'd start making cut backs to the subsidised network right away so it eases the pain later on, after all with this local funding shortfall it'll happen sharper later on so we may as well spread the pain a bit better. I'd axe both the 61 and 62 as the East Leeds DRT covers much of the 61 route from Morrisons to St James's and all of the 62 route. The 62 does carry pensioners who look like they couldn't manage the walk to York Road or even town, so for them the DRT should be amended so bookings can be made on Metroline. Other than elderly/disabled, the majority who catch the 62 look very much like they could easily walk to town, some lazy younger generation are even carting heavy bags of shopping around town so can't see a need for subsidy for them! The missing bit of 61 is covered by the 46/7 with the last bit up to the stadium within easy walking distance of the 46/7 stop, maybe the East Leeds DRT could be amended to cover beyond Morrisons to the stadium for registered individuals who would find the walk difficult?
How many subsidised bus services pass a train station? Rather than mirror existing commercial services, why not terminate subsidised services close to a train station if the train is going in the same direction? Take Woodlesford and Rothwell, why not divert the 446 Leeds bound at Rothwell Baptist Church back on itself (re-numbered 445 by the way) to Woodlesford Station connecting to trains to Leeds there? Would save at least 1 bus making the overall contract that bit cheaper. The missing bit of Wood Lane isn't that far from the Baptist Church area and 110 stops.
The 55C from Cottingley to Leeds could also be a good candidate to be axed, and instead the Leeds to Holbeck section replaced by a diverted service 1 every hour, but with a clever bit of re-routing so both the missing section each hour, and Holbeck are served as much as possible whilst no additional resources are needed. So first of all it'll obviously be re-numbered 1A, so the 1A Beeston bound should turn just past the motorway under it and along Princess Street (is that what it's called?) passing the subway/bridge with a stop there for residents who need to access Hunslet Hall Road/Malverns area then when it reaches the church it'll turn left up past Top Moor Side then up Cemetery Road (Malverns also served from stops along here) to it's normal route. The only missing bit is Domestic Street which is a short walk to the Top Moor Side stop and will continue to see the 75 anyway, Whitehall Road still has a number of other buses along it so nobody really affected. You could argue that there is the missing section of Elland Road not served, but houses along there are a short walk to the Cemetery Road stops. Cottingley estate has the train and if it came down to it, maybe divert a couple of evening journeys on the 51/2 via the estate, would only add 3 or 4 minutes onto the journey time.
Could the 9A be truncated, or even fully axed? at the moment we see a massive 2 to 3 hour gap, depending on day of week and direction between the 9 ending and 9A taking over. Is there a need for buses to serve all the route bearing in mind all sections have alternatives by changing elsewhere, and if you have this massive gap between the 9 ending and the 9A taking over, you can't really say it's an essential well used socially necessary route. Maybe truncate it so the core section from Rothwell to Pudsey runs on a 2 hourly basis, taking just under an hour each way so only 1 bus needed? I can't see Swillington having much of a need to access Cross Gates, but this could be done with a change down the road at Allerton Bywater anyway. Cross Gates to Seacroft is covered by other services like the 11 and 40, although yes it's the long way round but it's still covered. Lots of areas don't or even never have had direct services to other locations and that's not caused any issues.
What I don't want to be seeing is better used subsidised evening journeys having to be axed when other less well used services that have alternatives are kept going, but I bet that happens!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2022 17:40:15 GMT 1
I'd start making cut backs to the subsidised network right away so it eases the pain later on, after all with this local funding shortfall it'll happen sharper later on so we may as well spread the pain a bit better. I'd axe both the 61 and 62 as the East Leeds DRT covers much of the 61 route from Morrisons to St James's and all of the 62 route. The 62 does carry pensioners who look like they couldn't manage the walk to York Road or even town, so for them the DRT should be amended so bookings can be made on Metroline. Other than elderly/disabled, the majority who catch the 62 look very much like they could easily walk to town, some lazy younger generation are even carting heavy bags of shopping around town so can't see a need for subsidy for them! The missing bit of 61 is covered by the 46/7 with the last bit up to the stadium within easy walking distance of the 46/7 stop, maybe the East Leeds DRT could be amended to cover beyond Morrisons to the stadium for registered individuals who would find the walk difficult? How many subsidised bus services pass a train station? Rather than mirror existing commercial services, why not terminate subsidised services close to a train station if the train is going in the same direction? Take Woodlesford and Rothwell, why not divert the 446 Leeds bound at Rothwell Baptist Church back on itself (re-numbered 445 by the way) to Woodlesford Station connecting to trains to Leeds there? Would save at least 1 bus making the overall contract that bit cheaper. The missing bit of Wood Lane isn't that far from the Baptist Church area and 110 stops. The 55C from Cottingley to Leeds could also be a good candidate to be axed, and instead the Leeds to Holbeck section replaced by a diverted service 1 every hour, but with a clever bit of re-routing so both the missing section each hour, and Holbeck are served as much as possible whilst no additional resources are needed. So first of all it'll obviously be re-numbered 1A, so the 1A Beeston bound should turn just past the motorway under it and along Princess Street (is that what it's called?) passing the subway/bridge with a stop there for residents who need to access Hunslet Hall Road/Malverns area then when it reaches the church it'll turn left up past Top Moor Side then up Cemetery Road (Malverns also served from stops along here) to it's normal route. The only missing bit is Domestic Street which is a short walk to the Top Moor Side stop and will continue to see the 75 anyway, Whitehall Road still has a number of other buses along it so nobody really affected. You could argue that there is the missing section of Elland Road not served, but houses along there are a short walk to the Cemetery Road stops. Cottingley estate has the train and if it came down to it, maybe divert a couple of evening journeys on the 51/2 via the estate, would only add 3 or 4 minutes onto the journey time. Could the 9A be truncated, or even fully axed? at the moment we see a massive 2 to 3 hour gap, depending on day of week and direction between the 9 ending and 9A taking over. Is there a need for buses to serve all the route bearing in mind all sections have alternatives by changing elsewhere, and if you have this massive gap between the 9 ending and the 9A taking over, you can't really say it's an essential well used socially necessary route. Maybe truncate it so the core section from Rothwell to Pudsey runs on a 2 hourly basis, taking just under an hour each way so only 1 bus needed? I can't see Swillington having much of a need to access Cross Gates, but this could be done with a change down the road at Allerton Bywater anyway. Cross Gates to Seacroft is covered by other services like the 11 and 40, although yes it's the long way round but it's still covered. Lots of areas don't or even never have had direct services to other locations and that's not caused any issues. What I don't want to be seeing is better used subsidised evening journeys having to be axed when other less well used services that have alternatives are kept going, but I bet that happens! I Agree over trying to connect buses & trains where possible, but as we don't have an integrated system like London & soon Manchester it would increase costs for anyone wanting to travel,plus i don't think the 446 would be the best idea as it forms part of the Rothwell > Leeds combined frequency. If/When more stations see better frequency trains & the fares system is combined (probably would need franchising for this to happen) then it's possible quite a number of bus routes across the county could be cutback/axed. Over Cottingley,The train station is due to close when White Rose Station opens, due to lack of available 'paths' on the line. My solution to better serve the estates would be axing 55/C & 65,cutting route 47 Back to Morley & Introducing a new Route 76 operating from Leeds to Morley via current route 65 to White Rose then Morley via Cottingley Half Hourly (Leeds > Beeston Old Lane Every 15 Mins combined with route 75),Then once the new station opens at White Rose have it call there also maintaining links from Cottingley to the railway plus giving Beeston an alternative to travelling into Leeds. It's a shame that when they made the plans to move & rebuild Morley Station they didn't look at trying to add space for buses to serve it. I Actually think the ring road 9/9A services are routes that should look to be improved rather than cutback further, part of the reason bus usage has declined over the years is because Orbital routes like them have been left to rot whilst passengers have been encouraged to travel/change via the City Centre.
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Nov 21, 2022 21:04:43 GMT 1
Could the 9A be truncated, or even fully axed? at the moment we see a massive 2 to 3 hour gap, depending on day of week and direction between the 9 ending and 9A taking over. Is there a need for buses to serve all the route bearing in mind all sections have alternatives by changing elsewhere, and if you have this massive gap between the 9 ending and the 9A taking over, you can't really say it's an essential well used socially necessary route. Maybe truncate it so the core section from Rothwell to Pudsey runs on a 2 hourly basis, taking just under an hour each way so only 1 bus needed? I can't see Swillington having much of a need to access Cross Gates, but this could be done with a change down the road at Allerton Bywater anyway. Cross Gates to Seacroft is covered by other services like the 11 and 40, although yes it's the long way round but it's still covered. Lots of areas don't or even never have had direct services to other locations and that's not caused any issues. I Actually think the ring road 9/9A services are routes that should look to be improved rather than cutback further, part of the reason bus usage has declined over the years is because Orbital routes like them have been left to rot whilst passengers have been encouraged to travel/change via the City Centre. The "Ring Road" 9 and latterly 9A services are ones I drove very often during my time at Bramley depot. Would be good to see the Horsforth - White Rose section increased to half hourly, during the day this section was quite busy. Also got a lot of passengers from Woodlesford/Rothwell area going to and from the White Rose. Although this may have changed now as this was back in 2016/2017. The hourly evening service could stay however I never had many passengers beyond Pudsey to Horsforth...
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Post by Username on Nov 21, 2022 23:16:13 GMT 1
My proposals for services around Calderdale, be prepared list might be long:
20 Halifax - Rye Lane A new early morning journey would get added from Halifax at 05:50 arriving at Rye Lane for 06:20 so it can then turn into that 06:25 journey rather than running dead up to Rye Lane.
501/503 Halifax - CRH - Elland - Huddersfield I would revise the timetable completely so that buses run every 10 minutes at 00, 10, 20, 30, 40 and 50 from Huddersfield and Halifax Town Centres. I would also reroute the 501 to skip West Vale via the bypass and run every 20 minutes Mondays to Saturdays daytime combined with the 503 to form a service of every 10 minutes. This would improve hospital to hospital link as the 343 is quite a slow and unreliable service.
Journeys on Sundays will genuinely depart every 30 minutes with 501 leaving at 00 and 503 leaving at half past.
508 Halifax - Northowram - Shelf - Osdal Top - Farsley - Kirkstall - Leeds I would fix the bloody mess of whatever you call this bad timetable. Coordinate buses with the 681/682 to form a frequent service even if it means diverting it via Northowram Surgery like the 681/2 to keep on track with the time.
571 Halifax - Southowram - Brighouse - Hipperholme - Shelf I would replace this with an exstended 254 that matches departure times of the 255 and HX2 at Halifax and Leeds centres to provide a more reliable service. The Shelf to Brighouse section can be replaced by a new route possibly 685 or something like that which runs along the old 571 route also serving Canterbury Avenue on the 629 route and Laisteridge lane like the 613/614 to not make a pointless duplicate of the 640/1.
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Nov 25, 2022 13:20:14 GMT 1
So as many people may have realised now through my posts, random odd minutes and silly service patterns are a serious gripe with me. When I was scheduling I went by some simple rules that not only improved familiarity and how well it looked on paper but also improved reliability. Leaving start point at a whole block number xx00 xx05 xx10 etc. Timing points only at xxx0 xxx2 xxx5 xxx7 Between last timing point and terminus allow where possible 15 minutes of time with some of that being catch up time. This kind of timetable allows for "passing" timing points to be implemented which maintains accurate estimates of times from bus stops, these may be at places where waiting isn't in the best interest of passengers or other road users (e.g. Tuel Lane Top or Whitty Lane on the original 590/592 timetable as now it blocks the road with waiting there upto 4 minutes at times or longer on inbound journeys into Halifax where before they never waited). This is then balanced out with sufficient running time given to the next timing point which allows for an on time arrival an departure with buses typically arriving a couple of minutes early for loading. Also good for passengers as they think they've made good time as there has been no unnecessary waiting and arrived slightly earlier than planned... When in actual fact it is designed like that. (e.g. Mytholmroyd to Hebden Bridge - 10 minutes, to allow for loading and potential queuing traffic by the station). This is much better than being timed to the minute as this regularly looks as though buses are late and the transition between running times more obvious and harder work for the driver to keep to time on. A bonus with this means that it is super easy to transition between different running times e.g. daytime to evening and peak to off peak with the closing up of the different time profiles being more obvious at the end of the route where it doesnt matter. Example a smooth transition between peak, standard and evening/fast times then super fast: Service 503Halifax Market Street | 1735 1750 1815 2315 | Commercial Street | 1737 1752 1817 2317 | West Vale | 1752 1805 1827 2325 | Elland Southgate | 1757 1810 1832 2330 | Ainley Top | 1805 1817 1837 2335 | Huddersfield Bus Stn | 1820 1830 1850 2347 |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Dec 12, 2022 23:51:14 GMT 1
I agree about replacing the 571 Halifax to Brighouse part with the 254
Its a shame there is nothing the Brighouse to Shelf part could therefore be joined onto operationally, as if it was stand alone whosever ran it would need remote reliefs which isn’t good
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Post by peppy89 on Dec 30, 2022 20:16:42 GMT 1
Maybe have a 255a that does Halifax to leeds via brighouse Southowram and m62 m621 and run it hourly and link it onto leeds with something that runs to Heckmondwike
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Post by peppy89 on Dec 30, 2022 20:18:12 GMT 1
So then a drivers piece of duty could be say for instance Heckmondwike to leeds then 255a to Halifax back to leeds then Heckmondwike then break/ finish
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Post by peppy89 on Dec 30, 2022 20:21:17 GMT 1
Or to shelf do a 268b that does bradford then 268 route to odsal then down to shelf and maybe Halifax then back to Bradford then a 268 back to Heckmondwike or wakefield
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Post by deerfold on Dec 30, 2022 20:32:19 GMT 1
Maybe have a 255a that does Halifax to leeds via brighouse Southowram and m62 m621 and run it hourly and link it onto leeds with something that runs to Heckmondwike There was a peak X25 that did this for a while (though via Halifax - Elland to begin with). I caught it once - it was quite quiet. You know you can edit posts so you don't have to have 3 in a row? Any particular reasons for the suggestions you've made?
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Post by peppy89 on Dec 30, 2022 21:06:20 GMT 1
Ahh I didn't know that mate but yeah I'm a driver in the industry and the reasons for my suggestions would be that it may improve links to shelf and Halifax and Bradford and maybe arriva have a bite of the apple so to speak to fill in the gaps and to provide a service that could possibly link to the services they operate now and also with the unreliability of the 571 it would save route learning as such because the drivers would need to.learn it through to either leeds or bradford for the setup return journey on either 268 from bradford or anything from leeds to Heckmondwike
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2022 21:24:34 GMT 1
Or to shelf do a 268b that does bradford then 268 route to odsal then down to shelf and maybe Halifax then back to Bradford then a 268 back to Heckmondwike or wakefield If i've got your proposed route '268B' correct, it runs Bradford > Little Horton > Odsal Top > Shelf > Halifax - Isn't that just the 681 with an added diversion off Manchester Rd when entering Bradford, so apart from saying it would give Halifax a direct bus to St. Lukes Hospital (not sure if that's important) what purpose would it serve?
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Post by peppy89 on Dec 30, 2022 22:11:31 GMT 1
The purpose it might serve would be that when in Halifax the 571 is dropping due to driver shortages not knowing the route it could even possibly link up with the 571 to alleviate any lost mileage possibly and have the 571 maybe link up with 268b and instead if sending the 268b to Wakefield send it to Halifax via shelf then onto the 571 to brighouse then Cleckheaton and Heckmondwike so it could interwork as the 571 is operated by the same depot as the 268
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Post by peppy89 on Dec 30, 2022 22:16:43 GMT 1
Bearing in mind it is only an opinion and not wanting any argument as I'm new to the site but trying to cover all bases by giving my idea of the public a service to bradford and Halifax with also the drivers having to route learn the 571 as it could be linked in with the 268b, even tho first operate the 681 they don't operate the 571 and since arriva as only one service into Halifax it would interwork because at present the 255 is the service and doesn't interlink with the 571 which is getting stood so it could provide a link for shelf too
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Post by deerfold on Dec 30, 2022 22:24:34 GMT 1
The purpose it might serve would be that when in Halifax the 571 is dropping due to driver shortages not knowing the route it could even possibly link up with the 571 to alleviate any lost mileage possibly and have the 571 maybe link up with 268b and instead if sending the 268b to Wakefield send it to Halifax via shelf then onto the 571 to brighouse then Cleckheaton and Heckmondwike so it could interwork as the 571 is operated by the same depot as the 268 You seem to have posted two similar messages. If there's a problem with the 571, wouldn't it be better to sort that out, rather than add another route?
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Post by peppy89 on Dec 30, 2022 22:56:57 GMT 1
I agree with that too I'm just thinking rather than having one bus stuck in Halifax with wheels not turning due to drivers not knowing the route wouldn't it be better linking it on with another route to earn some extra revenue and cut down on lost mileage and making it some sort of circle, the 571 when it went to bradford didn't make much money so a.more direct route and the same operator might give it a. Better chance of cutting some problems of reliability issues, plus might cut down on some dead mileage too
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Post by peppy89 on Dec 30, 2022 23:08:38 GMT 1
The other suggestion could be a circle from Heckmondwike, Cleckheaton, hartshead, brighouse, Southowram, Halifax, shelf, Hipperholme, then back towards hartshead and Liversedge, and then another so itd b clockwise and anti clockwise then the driver changes can be done at Heckmondwike too
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