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Post by Dom on Oct 16, 2021 21:12:53 GMT 1
WYCA could fund it if it was deemed "socially necessary". But unlike the trains there is no operator of last resort for buses, so if no operator wants to run it, even with funding, that's that. And it might be that no other operator has spare vehicles and drivers either.
I get why some people might be aggrieved by its withdrawal, but "people have been using it since the 1960s" isn't a reason to keep it going. Heck, I used to live near Ringways and remember when we had the 45 and 64 running every 20 minutes combined in the 1970s. By the time the 39 was pulled it was down to hourly if you were lucky. So I don't think it's unreasonable to ask who is using this service, where they're travelling to/from and when before pumping limited public funds into supporting it.
(Yes, I realise that this is WYCA we're talking about and they're not always so choosy about where they throw their cash.)
You are completely right. If i'm not mistaken the current timetable is now predominatley commercial run with a very small part Metro funded. This route has been massivley hit in reductions to timetable since the last big consultation back in 2012. Having seen quite a few 205’s this week, as I’ve been on the X11 55 65 mixture, I’ve noticed it can be quite busy during the off peak hours, but the majority of the passengers seems to be pass holders. Timing between Gildersome and Morley is only a minute infront of the 65. My idea would of been to up the 65 to a half hourly service, having one terminate short at Morley and one run through to Gildersome and onto Pudsey, then once arriving into Pudsey changing back to a X11 to Bradford. The only down side of this would be the X11 some how becoming 3 buses an hour (ideally a 20 minute service). But that means the timetable would be odd beyond Pudsey to Leeds, but that is the quieter part of the route, and is already covered by numerous other services. (4 X6 72 14)
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Post by stephen01 on Oct 16, 2021 21:13:38 GMT 1
The best option would be for Metro to approach First to extend the 65 every 90 mins as I've alluded to elsewhere on here. The current 55 and 75 are more than enough for Holbeck and Beeston Asda, so reducing the 65 to every 90 mins wouldn't harm, unless you want White Rose, but there are other options like walking from Milshaw off a 55, changing there to a 9, or changing from an 86 at Hunslet Hall Road. but looking at the section with info from the Pudsey Labour party all operators have said no to running the full route so can you honestley hand on heart see First extending the 65 to cover the Gildersome/Morley to Pudsey section also bearing mind some of Leeds routes are currently sub-contracted out and the 65 is currently been run by Bradford short term with the 55.
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Post by stephen01 on Oct 16, 2021 21:22:41 GMT 1
I doubt Metro would be asking First to make major changes to their commercial network, I’m not sure how the funding would work in such a situation. If there is any replacement it’ll be a very straight forward stand alone route It surprisingly might be something First would be interested in as the current 65 is borderline profitable as it is, it's had quite a lot of slash and burn including a lengthy period of suspension but somehow still keeps the die hards lol. Offering something new to the route such as links to White Rose from parts of South Pudsey, Farnley and Gildersome may be a draw what increases profits, as well as solves this lost link issue. Well that solution would mean part of the 205 continuing and partly re-instating the 711's link from Pudsey to White Rose as the only other route from Pudsey to White Rose is the 9/9A.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Oct 17, 2021 9:29:21 GMT 1
The best option would be for Metro to approach First to extend the 65 every 90 mins as I've alluded to elsewhere on here. The current 55 and 75 are more than enough for Holbeck and Beeston Asda, so reducing the 65 to every 90 mins wouldn't harm, unless you want White Rose, but there are other options like walking from Milshaw off a 55, changing there to a 9, or changing from an 86 at Hunslet Hall Road. but looking at the section with info from the Pudsey Labour party all operators have said no to running the full route so can you honestley hand on heart see First extending the 65 to cover the Gildersome/Morley to Pudsey section also bearing mind some of Leeds routes are currently sub-contracted out and the 65 is currently been run by Bradford short term with the 55. I could if WYCA offered a good price, and reducing the 65 to every 90 mins would mean no extra resources needed. Those Pudsey councilors should be more on the ball and sell this idea to WYCA/First, especially the possible selling point of a direct service to White Rose from areas in South Pudsey, Farnley and Gildersome. In all seriousness they should have studied all other local transport options and come up with ideas like this rather than simply asking if anyone can run it as a stand alone route, because of course the answer will be no lol. There are still some die hard fans of the 65 who will insist it should be kept hourly, but as long as the better used school/work journeys are covered then anything else is just a leisure journey. The 75 more than covers essential shopping journeys to Asda, with most getting a taxi back with shopping anyway.
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Post by dennisthemenace504 on Oct 17, 2021 9:53:36 GMT 1
Back in the day of the old Wayfarer ticket machines, Metro used to do passenger surveys on the bus, where passenger got on, where passenger got off etc, this was their way of determining if the service needed more subsidy, stay the same, or less subsidy.
These surveys haven't taken place for around 9 ish years, when the smart ticket machines, started to be introduced.
I know one of my former employers rung me, just last week (8/10), asking if I'd be interested in rejoining them, as they were looking for x amount of drivers, as they were looking to submit a tender price to run the 205, BUT they were only gonna put price in, if they could employ the correct number of drivers, as they know there's a shortage everywhere.
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Post by stephen01 on Oct 17, 2021 10:39:07 GMT 1
but looking at the section with info from the Pudsey Labour party all operators have said no to running the full route so can you honestley hand on heart see First extending the 65 to cover the Gildersome/Morley to Pudsey section also bearing mind some of Leeds routes are currently sub-contracted out and the 65 is currently been run by Bradford short term with the 55. I could if WYCA offered a good price, and reducing the 65 to every 90 mins would mean no extra resources needed. Those Pudsey councilors should be more on the ball and sell this idea to WYCA/First, especially the possible selling point of a direct service to White Rose from areas in South Pudsey, Farnley and Gildersome. In all seriousness they should have studied all other local transport options and come up with ideas like this rather than simply asking if anyone can run it as a stand alone route, because of course the answer will be no lol. There are still some die hard fans of the 65 who will insist it should be kept hourly, but as long as the better used school/work journeys are covered then anything else is just a leisure journey. The 75 more than covers essential shopping journeys to Asda, with most getting a taxi back with shopping anyway. It would depend on if First but in a bid to run the short section but Metro are going to have they're work cut out setting up an emergency tender as there's only 12 days to the changes including today so there could end up been at least a few days to a couple of weeks without a service if either another operator takes on either the full route or the proposed part route between Pudsey & Morley as they'll need to be route learning done, ticket pricing sorted and the destis sorted as well which can take time. People have also suggested having the ML2 Dewsbury Moor-Shaw Cross circular re-routed again slightly to cover the 205 between Dewsbury and Shaw Cross but you've already got the 202 covering part and the 119 & 120 also covers Hanging Heaton to Shaw Cross as the run from just up past Lyles yard so would be a dead loss there doing any more tweaks.
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Post by stephen01 on Oct 17, 2021 10:46:42 GMT 1
Back in the day of the old Wayfarer ticket machines, Metro used to do passenger surveys on the bus, where passenger got on, where passenger got off etc, this was their way of determining if the service needed more subsidy, stay the same, or less subsidy. These surveys haven't taken place for around 9 ish years, when the smart ticket machines, started to be introduced. I know one of my former employers rung me, just last week (8/10), asking if I'd be interested in rejoining them, as they were looking for x amount of drivers, as they were looking to submit a tender price to run the 205, BUT they were only gonna put price in, if they could employ the correct number of drivers, as they know there's a shortage everywhere. think some were been done on Arriva's routes as far back as 2017 when they still had the previous Wayfarer machines as well as on Station Coaches routes and Ross Travel's routes too but as you say now that nearly all operators are using Ticketer ticket machines (or alternatives) they've not been done. As i've said before i'll be very surprised if there's much funding from Metro for the 205 be it full route or part as it's funded trips have been stripped back since at least 2013/2014 on regular basis.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2021 10:56:28 GMT 1
but looking at the section with info from the Pudsey Labour party all operators have said no to running the full route so can you honestley hand on heart see First extending the 65 to cover the Gildersome/Morley to Pudsey section also bearing mind some of Leeds routes are currently sub-contracted out and the 65 is currently been run by Bradford short term with the 55. I could if WYCA offered a good price, and reducing the 65 to every 90 mins would mean no extra resources needed. Those Pudsey councilors should be more on the ball and sell this idea to WYCA/First, especially the possible selling point of a direct service to White Rose from areas in South Pudsey, Farnley and Gildersome. In all seriousness they should have studied all other local transport options and come up with ideas like this rather than simply asking if anyone can run it as a stand alone route, because of course the answer will be no lol. There are still some die hard fans of the 65 who will insist it should be kept hourly, but as long as the better used school/work journeys are covered then anything else is just a leisure journey. The 75 more than covers essential shopping journeys to Asda, with most getting a taxi back with shopping anyway. Your suggestion could end up putting the 65 (& possibly the 55) at risk over the commercial parts of the route,as it would mean every 3 hours a 55 & 65 would turn up together (after a half hour gap on the Leeds > Holbeck section) plus no doubt people will be complaining on the estates only served by 65 about having their bus reduced just so it can extend to Pudsey. I Do think there is potential in this suggestion if Metro would pay for an extra bus,allowing to keep the Hourly frequency. A Cheap solution for Metro would be to ask First to extend the 65 to the end of Gildersome Lane (currently has about 4mins layover in Gildersome so it could just about fit it in) then split the 81 into 2 routes,one using the current route via Swinnow Lane every 2 hours & every 2 hours (numbered 82?) runs from Butt Lane crossroads via Tong Rd,Roker Lane & Kent Rd rejoining the route at Troydale what would just leave Back Lane without a service For Pudsey > Dewsbury it's not that much slower to get the 9 to White Rose & change to a 202/3 (as long as you get the timings correct),so maybe do posters/booklets showing the connection times & what is the best 202/3 to get from Dewsbury to connect for the 9 coming back.
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Post by deerfold on Oct 17, 2021 11:37:08 GMT 1
I doubt Metro would be asking First to make major changes to their commercial network, I’m not sure how the funding would work in such a situation. If there is any replacement it’ll be a very straight forward stand alone route Metro can make de Minimis payments for operators to extend or divert commercial routes. There's a limit on the percentage of their budget which can be used like that.
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Post by stephen01 on Oct 17, 2021 11:56:20 GMT 1
The 205 seems to have a weird running times at least from Dewsbury; the 0625 takes 57 Mins, the 0725 takes 70 mins, the 0845-1345 trips take 61 mins, the 1505 & 1550 trips take 1hr20mins and the 1650 takes 66mins. I've never known one route have that varied running time Monday-Friday.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Oct 17, 2021 12:10:12 GMT 1
I doubt Metro would be asking First to make major changes to their commercial network, I’m not sure how the funding would work in such a situation. If there is any replacement it’ll be a very straight forward stand alone route Metro can make de Minimis payments for operators to extend or divert commercial routes. There's a limit on the percentage of their budget which can be used like that. Yes there is, but in this case they were suggesting First reduce part of one of their services to enable them to run part of the 205 with no extra resource
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Oct 17, 2021 12:31:11 GMT 1
I could if WYCA offered a good price, and reducing the 65 to every 90 mins would mean no extra resources needed. Those Pudsey councilors should be more on the ball and sell this idea to WYCA/First, especially the possible selling point of a direct service to White Rose from areas in South Pudsey, Farnley and Gildersome. In all seriousness they should have studied all other local transport options and come up with ideas like this rather than simply asking if anyone can run it as a stand alone route, because of course the answer will be no lol. There are still some die hard fans of the 65 who will insist it should be kept hourly, but as long as the better used school/work journeys are covered then anything else is just a leisure journey. The 75 more than covers essential shopping journeys to Asda, with most getting a taxi back with shopping anyway. Your suggestion could end up putting the 65 (& possibly the 55) at risk over the commercial parts of the route,as it would mean every 3 hours a 55 & 65 would turn up together (after a half hour gap on the Leeds > Holbeck section) plus no doubt people will be complaining on the estates only served by 65 about having their bus reduced just so it can extend to Pudsey. I Do think there is potential in this suggestion if Metro would pay for an extra bus,allowing to keep the Hourly frequency. A Cheap solution for Metro would be to ask First to extend the 65 to the end of Gildersome Lane (currently has about 4mins layover in Gildersome so it could just about fit it in) then split the 81 into 2 routes,one using the current route via Swinnow Lane every 2 hours & every 2 hours (numbered 82?) runs from Butt Lane crossroads via Tong Rd,Roker Lane & Kent Rd rejoining the route at Troydale what would just leave Back Lane without a service For Pudsey > Dewsbury it's not that much slower to get the 9 to White Rose & change to a 202/3 (as long as you get the timings correct),so maybe do posters/booklets showing the connection times & what is the best 202/3 to get from Dewsbury to connect for the 9 coming back. Could just simply re-time the 55 and 75 so there isn't a gap, with the 65 fitting in somewhere in between every 90 mins, I've always said as well you don't need the 75 linking with a 74 nowadays with the 12 being a much quicker alternative, so re-timing the 75 should be easier if this link wasn't taken into account. Very few use the 75 to run through from Beeston centre to Belle Isle, and by the time you've taken into account all the estate roads and a wait at Asda, it's quicker to walk down for a 12.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2021 13:23:16 GMT 1
Your suggestion could end up putting the 65 (& possibly the 55) at risk over the commercial parts of the route,as it would mean every 3 hours a 55 & 65 would turn up together (after a half hour gap on the Leeds > Holbeck section) plus no doubt people will be complaining on the estates only served by 65 about having their bus reduced just so it can extend to Pudsey. I Do think there is potential in this suggestion if Metro would pay for an extra bus,allowing to keep the Hourly frequency. A Cheap solution for Metro would be to ask First to extend the 65 to the end of Gildersome Lane (currently has about 4mins layover in Gildersome so it could just about fit it in) then split the 81 into 2 routes,one using the current route via Swinnow Lane every 2 hours & every 2 hours (numbered 82?) runs from Butt Lane crossroads via Tong Rd,Roker Lane & Kent Rd rejoining the route at Troydale what would just leave Back Lane without a service For Pudsey > Dewsbury it's not that much slower to get the 9 to White Rose & change to a 202/3 (as long as you get the timings correct),so maybe do posters/booklets showing the connection times & what is the best 202/3 to get from Dewsbury to connect for the 9 coming back. Could just simply re-time the 55 and 75 so there isn't a gap, with the 65 fitting in somewhere in between every 90 mins, I've always said as well you don't need the 75 linking with a 74 nowadays with the 12 being a much quicker alternative, so re-timing the 75 should be easier if this link wasn't taken into account. Very few use the 75 to run through from Beeston centre to Belle Isle, and by the time you've taken into account all the estate roads and a wait at Asda, it's quicker to walk down for a 12. Is it really worth that amount of changes/cutbacks just for First to provide an infrequent part replacement for 205? As i said before if Metro pay for an extra bus then it's a good idea but reducing the 65 (that already saw its frequency halved to Hourly not too long ago) plus more messing around with the 55/75 isn't the best solution (over the 74/75 Circular,I Thought it was more to provide Cross-Middleton links from the likes of the Sharp Lane area to the Middleton Park Facilities) Especially in a time where the WY Mayor is wanting improved frequencies (in fact,if Metro are not willing to pay for the extra bus,would it be possible to come from the Mayors transport fund?) If Arriva do what the Pudsey Labour are wanting & confirm it's only temporally it makes it even less worthwhile
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Post by yorkslad on Oct 17, 2021 13:30:13 GMT 1
I could if WYCA offered a good price, and reducing the 65 to every 90 mins would mean no extra resources needed. Those Pudsey councilors should be more on the ball and sell this idea to WYCA/First, especially the possible selling point of a direct service to White Rose from areas in South Pudsey, Farnley and Gildersome. In all seriousness they should have studied all other local transport options and come up with ideas like this rather than simply asking if anyone can run it as a stand alone route, because of course the answer will be no lol. There are still some die hard fans of the 65 who will insist it should be kept hourly, but as long as the better used school/work journeys are covered then anything else is just a leisure journey. The 75 more than covers essential shopping journeys to Asda, with most getting a taxi back with shopping anyway. Your suggestion could end up putting the 65 (& possibly the 55) at risk over the commercial parts of the route,as it would mean every 3 hours a 55 & 65 would turn up together (after a half hour gap on the Leeds > Holbeck section) plus no doubt people will be complaining on the estates only served by 65 about having their bus reduced just so it can extend to Pudsey. I Do think there is potential in this suggestion if Metro would pay for an extra bus,allowing to keep the Hourly frequency. A Cheap solution for Metro would be to ask First to extend the 65 to the end of Gildersome Lane (currently has about 4mins layover in Gildersome so it could just about fit it in) then split the 81 into 2 routes,one using the current route via Swinnow Lane every 2 hours & every 2 hours (numbered 82?) runs from Butt Lane crossroads via Tong Rd,Roker Lane & Kent Rd rejoining the route at Troydale what would just leave Back Lane without a service For Pudsey > Dewsbury it's not that much slower to get the 9 to White Rose & change to a 202/3 (as long as you get the timings correct),so maybe do posters/booklets showing the connection times & what is the best 202/3 to get from Dewsbury to connect for the 9 coming back. I suggested somethig similar further up: extend the 15 from Old Farnley via Hall Lane, Tong Road and Roker Lane, then do the 4F loop in reverse at the Pudsey end. You could reasonably extend the 65 to The Woodcock / Gildersome turning circle but I suspect nothing will suffice for those calling for "Morley to Pudsey" via a quiet Back Lane to be reinstated rather than filling in the gaps.
The 81 & 81A have such convoluted routes in places I'd be included to leave them alone!
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Post by mk2mcw on Oct 18, 2021 17:28:01 GMT 1
It’s been announced that TLC will be taking on the 205 pudsey-dewsbury service there will be a few extensions to and from the owlcotes centre the times are altered slightly
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Oct 18, 2021 17:35:29 GMT 1
205 Pudsey • Dewsbury • Morley Sun 24 Oct 2021 Operated by Arriva/TLC Arriva Yorkshire will cease operation of bus service 205 from 23rd October. The Combined Authority are supporting a replacement service that will be operated by TLC Travel. The service will start on 25 October, and will initially operate to a reduced temporary timetable (due to the national shortage of drivers). The reduced timetable will ensure the continuation of service, and a full hourly timetable will be introduced as soon as the new operator have additional drivers available. The service will be extended to Owlcotes in Pudsey.
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Post by yorkslad on Oct 18, 2021 20:13:16 GMT 1
205 Pudsey • Dewsbury • Morley Sun 24 Oct 2021 Operated by Arriva/TLCArriva Yorkshire will cease operation of bus service 205 from 23rd October. The Combined Authority are supporting a replacement service that will be operated by TLC Travel. The service will start on 25 October, and will initially operate to a reduced temporary timetable (due to the national shortage of drivers). The reduced timetable will ensure the continuation of service, and a full hourly timetable will be introduced as soon as the new operator have additional drivers available. The service will be extended to Owlcotes in Pudsey. Pudsey > Dewsbury > Morley? Bit of a trek.
Reading the rest of the text, things have really gone downhill since I left!
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Post by martinsfp on Oct 18, 2021 20:38:10 GMT 1
205 Pudsey • Dewsbury • Morley Sun 24 Oct 2021 Operated by Arriva/TLCArriva Yorkshire will cease operation of bus service 205 from 23rd October. The Combined Authority are supporting a replacement service that will be operated by TLC Travel. The service will start on 25 October, and will initially operate to a reduced temporary timetable (due to the national shortage of drivers). The reduced timetable will ensure the continuation of service, and a full hourly timetable will be introduced as soon as the new operator have additional drivers available. The service will be extended to Owlcotes in Pudsey. Pudsey > Dewsbury > Morley? Bit of a trek.
Reading the rest of the text, things have really gone downhill since I left!
Communicating bus services changes is an under appreciated skill!
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Post by stephen01 on Oct 18, 2021 20:51:22 GMT 1
205 Pudsey • Dewsbury • Morley Sun 24 Oct 2021 Operated by Arriva/TLCArriva Yorkshire will cease operation of bus service 205 from 23rd October. The Combined Authority are supporting a replacement service that will be operated by TLC Travel. The service will start on 25 October, and will initially operate to a reduced temporary timetable (due to the national shortage of drivers). The reduced timetable will ensure the continuation of service, and a full hourly timetable will be introduced as soon as the new operator have additional drivers available. The service will be extended to Owlcotes in Pudsey. Well hopefully the timetable will be out soon to have a look at. Curious to see what will be used on it too.
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Post by rossbailey on Oct 18, 2021 22:15:21 GMT 1
Here's new timetable for TLC's replacement Pudsey - Morley - Dewsbury service 205
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joseph
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Posts: 1,147
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Post by joseph on Nov 1, 2021 8:31:19 GMT 1
Not sure if this has already been reported but the 508, 542, 590/1/2 and 645 all saw timetable changes yesterday.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Nov 1, 2021 17:23:21 GMT 1
I've had a look at the 508 and the only change on weekdays seems to be that the 14:00 Halifax to Leeds now runs at 14:05
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Nov 1, 2021 20:59:09 GMT 1
Not sure if this has already been reported but the 508, 542, 590/1/2 and 645 all saw timetable changes yesterday. Cant see anything different with the 590 591 592. Still get 20 mins to do a 10 min section of route resulting in excessive waiting time.
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