joseph
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Post by joseph on Sept 16, 2021 19:37:22 GMT 1
One route which could cover the 205 is an extended 65 between Gildersome and Pudsey, but with a reduction in frequency to every 90 minutes which may help a bit in terms of improving viability. At the moment it carries few beyond Holbeck towards Morley, although I suspect it may carry more up to Gildersome. I'm sure Pudsey residents would welcome another link to White Rose as well. Between Leeds and Holbeck, it doesn't really matter if it's reduced as the 55 and 75 make up for it, as for those passengers on Old Lane, I've not really seen that many waiting to be honest, so a half hourly 75, with the 65 slotted in between every 90 mins should be ok. Not true, it regularly picks up and drops off passengers on Cardinal Estate, and from Holbeck & Beeston Hill to Morley & White Rose when I've been on it... when it used to run every 30. The single-deckers were always busy on Saturdays.
A 90-minute frequency is very regressive. Reminds me of when the temporary 10 used to run every 40 minutes in the evenings between Leeds and Beeston, which meant you were never sure when your bus was due. A better plan (IMO) would be to turn the 65 at Morley and run a new 66 between Morley and Pudsey via Gildersome, which means delays on one part of the route aren't imported onto the other part. But then, the one time I saw a 205 on Roker Lane it was empty - so perhaps it's had its day in the sun?
I've been on it many a time myself and even though it is used, it's not really used well enough. For example, I've been on the last journey from Leeds with the majority getting off in Holbeck and only a few on beyond, say around 8 to 10. A number of times I've caught a mid afternoon journey from Morley to Beeston on a Saturday around 3pm with only myself on board, not even picking anyone up at White Rose. I've observed an AM peak time bus heading to Leeds with probably only about 10 on board in Beeston by the Co Op. Most residents on the 65 aren't far away from other frequent services, Cardinal residents aren't far from the many Dewsbury Road services and those on the Redhalls side can access service 1. Old Lane is a short walk away as well for the half hourly 75. Regarding the 205, there are some unique sections between Morley and Pudsey which have some housing and other facilities such as Farnley Cemetery that are quite a walk from the nearest alternative bus route, so in some way these areas should continue to be served and even an off peak 65 every 90 mins is better than nothing.
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Post by peteleeds on Sept 17, 2021 20:03:12 GMT 1
Taken from local councillors fb post "Bus Service Changes - Arriva Yorkshire including 205 Service from Pudsey. Dear Councillor, thank you for your email. Bus companies across West Yorkshire have suffered in recent weeks from the UK-wide driver shortage. This has resulted in some journey cancellations across our network and we’re very sorry to have to let our customers down. We have been working tirelessly behind the scenes recruiting and training new drivers. However, should the rate of applications continue as suppressed as it has done over the past few months, we predict that by the end of October we still won’t have enough drivers to cover our scheduled mileage. As a responsible company, we don’t like to advertise a service we cannot deliver, and so regrettably we have reached a difficult decision to slightly downsize our bus network from 25th October to allow us time to recruit and train new drivers. We’ve tried wherever possible to keep communities connected, for example by merging routes together, but unfortunately, we have had to withdraw some services. Examples of routes that have been merged include: · Routes 101, 103 and 118 are merged into routes 101 and 118 · Routes 107 and 109 are merged into route 107 · Routes 102, 104, 112 and 212 are merged into routes 102 and 212 Other changes include: · Route 110 is split into two routes with the Leeds to Wakefield section retained as service 110, and the Wakefield to Hall Green section renumbered as service 106. This is being done to allow us to reduce the frequency across parts of the route to better match demand, whilst maintaining the availability of a connection through a change of buses at Wakefield Bus Station. · Route 205 (Pudsey to Morley and Dewsbury) is completely withdrawn, although some links are retained by other bus services. · Minor timetable changes have been made to routes 117, 231/232/232S and X80. · We’ve also changed route 100 to serve College Grove Road and Queen Elizabeth Road in both directions following customer and councillor requests. The full detail of each service change is attached. I recognise that most of these changes are a reduction in provision. It is with regret that we have to do this, but we are doing so to be able to confidently deliver a resilient service for our customers. We will promote the changes to our customers and the wider community, including notices on our buses, social media posts, and a dedicated webpage to promote the changes. In the meantime, our customers will be directed to our website and app where any journey cancellations will be shown, to allow them to plan their journeys accordingly. As driver levels improve, we will continue to review the level of service we can provide and will keep our customers updated. We would like to apologise to our customers for the ongoing disruption and thank you for bearing with us." www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news/changes-to-your-yorkshire-network
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Post by irhardy on Sept 17, 2021 21:09:05 GMT 1
With the shortened 110, will this enable the route to be operated only using the Streetdecks that were delivered to Arriva Yorkshire rather than a mixture of E400s & Streetdecks?
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Post by stephen01 on Sept 17, 2021 21:23:22 GMT 1
With the shortened 110, will this enable the route to be operated only using the Streetdecks that were delivered to Arriva Yorkshire rather than a mixture of E400s & Streetdecks? we'll have to wait a couple more weeks till the timetables are published to work it out.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Sept 17, 2021 21:37:14 GMT 1
I'm surprised the 108 hasn't been curtailed somewhere more urban, as Bretton is already served by another company and I can't see demand for 2 operators there. It'd been better to re-direct the 107 to Kettlethorpe more directly rather than via Newmillerdam as that carries nobody, then have that combine with the 106 with a combined 15 minute frequency, yes it does mess up the 106 pattern, but it's better use of precious driver resources. These overall shavings could well help going forward as I can't see things improving, but that's another story.
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SF07
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Post by SF07 on Sept 18, 2021 13:32:10 GMT 1
One route which could cover the 205 is an extended 65 between Gildersome and Pudsey, but with a reduction in frequency to every 90 minutes which may help a bit in terms of improving viability. At the moment it carries few beyond Holbeck towards Morley, although I suspect it may carry more up to Gildersome. I'm sure Pudsey residents would welcome another link to White Rose as well. Between Leeds and Holbeck, it doesn't really matter if it's reduced as the 55 and 75 make up for it, as for those passengers on Old Lane, I've not really seen that many waiting to be honest, so a half hourly 75, with the 65 slotted in between every 90 mins should be ok. I think if Metro/WYCA do look at getting some kind of replacement service for the 205, then a extension of the 65 to cover the Pudsey to Morley section is probably the likeliest option. As Arriva have pointed out on their website, the route from Morley to Dewsbury is partially covered by 117, 202/203, 213 and 425/427, so don't expect to see any replacement south of Morley. The only unique part of the route south of Morley not covered is the route in/out of Dewsbury via Crackenridge Lane and Commonside. Not sure if there is any possibility of re-routing the ML2 to cover that section. Given that Bradford depot is currently operating the 65, it could open up the possibility of drivers running dead to Bradford depot instead of the interworking with the X11 at Leeds. Maybe re-timing the 55 and 65 to interwork with each other at Leeds, so it could run as a 65 from Pudsey to Leeds, then loop around Cottingley as the 55, then back out of Leeds as a 65 to Pudsey before running back to Bradford depot. An alternative would be looking at a 25 minute layover at Pudsey, which could be used to run some journeys to Owlcotes Centre and back and replace the 14A.
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Post by yorkslad on Sept 18, 2021 14:51:14 GMT 1
One route which could cover the 205 is an extended 65 between Gildersome and Pudsey, but with a reduction in frequency to every 90 minutes which may help a bit in terms of improving viability. At the moment it carries few beyond Holbeck towards Morley, although I suspect it may carry more up to Gildersome. I'm sure Pudsey residents would welcome another link to White Rose as well. Between Leeds and Holbeck, it doesn't really matter if it's reduced as the 55 and 75 make up for it, as for those passengers on Old Lane, I've not really seen that many waiting to be honest, so a half hourly 75, with the 65 slotted in between every 90 mins should be ok. I think if Metro/WYCA do look at getting some kind of replacement service for the 205, then a extension of the 65 to cover the Pudsey to Morley section is probably the likeliest option. As Arriva have pointed out on their website, the route from Morley to Dewsbury is partially covered by 117, 202/203, 213 and 425/427, so don't expect to see any replacement south of Morley. The only unique part of the route south of Morley not covered is the route in/out of Dewsbury via Crackenridge Lane and Commonside. Not sure if there is any possibility of re-routing the ML2 to cover that section. Given that Bradford depot is currently operating the 65, it could open up the possibility of drivers running dead to Bradford depot instead of the interworking with the X11 at Leeds. Maybe re-timing the 55 and 65 to interwork with each other at Leeds, so it could run as a 65 from Pudsey to Leeds, then loop around Cottingley as the 55, then back out of Leeds as a 65 to Pudsey before running back to Bradford depot. An alternative would be looking at a 25 minute layover at Pudsey, which could be used to run some journeys to Owlcotes Centre and back and replace the 14A. Regarding the 205, there are some unique sections between Morley and Pudsey which have some housing and other facilities such as Farnley Cemetery that are quite a walk from the nearest alternative bus route, so in some way these areas should continue to be served and even an off peak 65 every 90 mins is better than nothing. I'm afraid I'm still not seeing it. I agree that if there was to be a replacement then Morley to Pudsey would be it. But the bit up to Gildersome is covered by the 65 (if there was time the 65 could be extended to turn at The Woodcock). That leaves Back Lane, Tong Road and the lower end of Roker Lane. Do lots of people visit Farnley Cemetery? It looks much smaller than New Farnley and Upper & Lower Wortley cemeteries, for example.
But if you really wanted to; why not extend the 15 from Old Farnley to Beaulah House (the old 22/47 route) and on to Pudsey via Tong Road, Roker Lane and Fartown/Littlemoor Road, doing the 4F loop in reverse?
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Post by stephen01 on Sept 18, 2021 15:06:13 GMT 1
One route which could cover the 205 is an extended 65 between Gildersome and Pudsey, but with a reduction in frequency to every 90 minutes which may help a bit in terms of improving viability. At the moment it carries few beyond Holbeck towards Morley, although I suspect it may carry more up to Gildersome. I'm sure Pudsey residents would welcome another link to White Rose as well. Between Leeds and Holbeck, it doesn't really matter if it's reduced as the 55 and 75 make up for it, as for those passengers on Old Lane, I've not really seen that many waiting to be honest, so a half hourly 75, with the 65 slotted in between every 90 mins should be ok. I think if Metro/WYCA do look at getting some kind of replacement service for the 205, then a extension of the 65 to cover the Pudsey to Morley section is probably the likeliest option. As Arriva have pointed out on their website, the route from Morley to Dewsbury is partially covered by 117, 202/203, 213 and 425/427, so don't expect to see any replacement south of Morley. The only unique part of the route south of Morley not covered is the route in/out of Dewsbury via Crackenridge Lane and Commonside. Not sure if there is any possibility of re-routing the ML2 to cover that section. Given that Bradford depot is currently operating the 65, it could open up the possibility of drivers running dead to Bradford depot instead of the interworking with the X11 at Leeds. Maybe re-timing the 55 and 65 to interwork with each other at Leeds, so it could run as a 65 from Pudsey to Leeds, then loop around Cottingley as the 55, then back out of Leeds as a 65 to Pudsey before running back to Bradford depot. An alternative would be looking at a 25 minute layover at Pudsey, which could be used to run some journeys to Owlcotes Centre and back and replace the 14A. The section of Commonside just above Lyles' yard is covered by 119 & 120 from little bit higher
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Post by Penfold on Sept 18, 2021 17:54:47 GMT 1
I'm surprised the 108 hasn't been curtailed somewhere more urban, as Bretton is already served by another company and I can't see demand for 2 operators there. It'd been better to re-direct the 107 to Kettlethorpe more directly rather than via Newmillerdam as that carries nobody, then have that combine with the 106 with a combined 15 minute frequency, yes it does mess up the 106 pattern, but it's better use of precious driver resources. These overall shavings could well help going forward as I can't see things improving, but that's another story. YSP wanted another service to the park and are (from what I gather) subsidising the service for a period time. Penfold
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Post by burtonsa02 on Sept 19, 2021 0:33:11 GMT 1
I know it might be a stupid question that I am asking but I'm sorry in advance but is the changes permanent or just temporary with the driver shortages?
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Post by deerfold on Sept 19, 2021 11:13:31 GMT 1
I know it might be a stupid question that I am asking but I'm sorry in advance but is the changes permanent or just temporary with the driver shortages? A good question. I don't think anyone really knows.
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Post by leeds rider on Sept 19, 2021 13:06:09 GMT 1
I know it might be a stupid question that I am asking but I'm sorry in advance but is the changes permanent or just temporary with the driver shortages? A good question. I don't think anyone really knows. Arriva's notice makes it clear they're intending it to be temporary until they can recruit more drivers. But various factors could change this, including (i) they can't recruit enough drivers (ii) the changes actually work better as a network (iii) passenger numbers don't make it worth restoring some of the frequency reductions.
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Post by stantheman on Sept 30, 2021 18:08:37 GMT 1
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Post by stephen01 on Sept 30, 2021 18:23:08 GMT 1
That timetable doesn't make sense
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Post by deerfold on Sept 30, 2021 18:50:01 GMT 1
That 2350 is a bit of a mystery.
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Post by stephen01 on Sept 30, 2021 18:58:44 GMT 1
212's is on. So the full route will now take 70 mins from one end to the other instead of current 50-55 with no increase yet there's 3 short trips most of the day to provide a 15 mins frequency between Wakefield & Alverthorpe Monday-Saturday daytime changing to every 30mins in evening with Sundays running hourly taking 1hr to do the route. The 118 series also have there new timetable on too with a 30 mins frequency between Wakefield & Jct41 Monday-Saturday.
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Post by stephen01 on Sept 30, 2021 19:00:08 GMT 1
Must be incomplete as the 101 is weird and i can see people kicking off more if timetable is right
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Post by adam on Sept 30, 2021 20:33:02 GMT 1
Would they bother running a short run to Belle Isle? Possibly the replacement of the current 2315 Leeds to Belle isle so will run as 110 to Wakefield then change to a 106 to Belle Isle.
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Post by Penfold on Sept 30, 2021 21:11:51 GMT 1
That timetable doesn't make sense Why ? Penfold
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Post by stephen01 on Sept 30, 2021 21:16:19 GMT 1
That timetable doesn't make sense Why ? Penfold well looking at it on the Metro website it's show's Wakefield-Stanley running 0915 till 1815 yet the trips from Stanley start at 0615
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Post by Penfold on Sept 30, 2021 21:43:12 GMT 1
well looking at it on the Metro website it's show's Wakefield-Stanley running 0915 till 1815 yet the trips from Stanley start at 0615 Ah see what you mean, as I can only get 0915 to 1815 too. Penfold
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Post by stephen01 on Sept 30, 2021 22:01:29 GMT 1
well looking at it on the Metro website it's show's Wakefield-Stanley running 0915 till 1815 yet the trips from Stanley start at 0615 Ah see what you mean, as I can only get 0915 to 1815 too. Penfold Thank God i'm not going crackers lol
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twy7
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Post by twy7 on Sept 30, 2021 23:24:09 GMT 1
Ah see what you mean, as I can only get 0915 to 1815 too. Penfold Thank God i'm not going crackers lol I dont know that route but would not be more going into wakefield than coming from at that time of the day? It look like the afternoon has the opposite with last from wakefield at 1815 but the last to wakefield arrive at 1628.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Oct 1, 2021 5:40:39 GMT 1
Probably works out cheaper to run dead 101s from Stanley to Wakefield direct rather than in service on a very indirect route that'll only be picking up odd numbers along the way. the 118 covers quite a bit of the 101 route as well. Don't forget that this will be designed to make best use of ever limited resources and income.
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Post by peteleeds on Oct 1, 2021 7:41:29 GMT 1
If you click into the journey its a short run in service to depot.
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