|
Post by Burnside on Jan 5, 2016 15:00:51 GMT 1
Alternatively, there would theoretically be nothing to stop LOT saying "We'll accept holders of Arriva tickets for, say, 50p per journey".
I seem to recall Centrebus/Tiger doing this with First tickets when they took over the Airport routes.
|
|
wibble
Forum Member
Posts: 204
|
Post by wibble on Jan 5, 2016 16:21:48 GMT 1
Alternatively, there would theoretically be nothing to stop LOT saying "We'll accept holders of Arriva tickets for, say, 50p per journey". I seem to recall Centrebus/Tiger doing this with First tickets when they took over the Airport routes. TLC do this, or advertise on their website that they accept other operators products at a supplement of 75p. www.tlctravelltd.co.uk/fares.php
|
|
|
Post by Arriva Wakefield on Jan 5, 2016 17:21:27 GMT 1
Metro could cheaply specify recognition of other companies tickets but will not do so as it wanted to show that deregulation was bad for passengers. The policy of course depresses bus use and increases Metro's bills. Things might change for the better when the new director is in post. Or they could go the way that Nexus (Tyne and Wear) was, where operators own tickets weren't valid on tendered journeys, only the multi -operator tickets.
|
|
69340
Forum Member
Posts: 463
|
Post by 69340 on Jan 5, 2016 17:47:05 GMT 1
Alternatively, there would theoretically be nothing to stop LOT saying "We'll accept holders of Arriva tickets for, say, 50p per journey". I seem to recall Centrebus/Tiger doing this with First tickets when they took over the Airport routes. Tiger charge 70p On services 59,60a,80,61/a,X63,29,39,69 and 757 between kirkstall Morrisons and murgatroyds at yeadon with a valid first ticket 711 as well between white rose and Thornbury barracks
|
|
|
Post by 1071 on Jan 5, 2016 18:20:26 GMT 1
PB0000815/919 - FIRST WEST YORKSHIRE LTD, HUNSLET PARK DEPOT, DONISTHORPE STREET, LEEDS, LS10 1PL Registration Accepted Starting Point: Bradford Finish Point: Brighouse Via: Service Number: 256 Service Type: Normal Stopping Effective Date: 21-FEB-2016 Other Details: Monday to Friday Peak
|
|
|
Post by westyorkshirebus on Jan 5, 2016 19:51:39 GMT 1
Metro could cheaply specify recognition of other companies tickets but will not do so as it wanted to show that deregulation was bad for passengers. The policy of course depresses bus use and increases Metro's bills. Things might change for the better when the new director is in post. Doesn't this give undue preferential treatment to the incumbent operator, as smaller operators would have to factor in customers travelling on other companies tickets? Would you expect LOT to get reimbursed from Arriva for carrying their passengers, or would Metro fund that? In reality there is no easy way of sorting this, it does sound like it is heading towards the sort of situation that Nexus want, which I'm sure many wouldn't want.
|
|
|
Post by rwilkes on Jan 5, 2016 20:36:36 GMT 1
The incumbent operator always has the advantage except that he may be severely undercut by a low cost operator A sensible LA would always try to use the incumbent because of the advantages to passengers. Rather than pay the operator it would negotiate the service in return for better bus priority. QCs are not he answer- the QC board showed that the Nexus proposal was hopelessly uneconomic. Only London has money to burn and even they might see sense one day
|
|
|
Post by whereami on Jan 5, 2016 21:16:18 GMT 1
Alternatively, there would theoretically be nothing to stop LOT saying "We'll accept holders of Arriva tickets for, say, 50p per journey". I seem to recall Centrebus/Tiger doing this with First tickets when they took over the Airport routes. TLC do this, or advertise on their website that they accept other operators products at a supplement of 75p. www.tlctravelltd.co.uk/fares.phpYes, TLC accept First/Tiger/Arriva day tickets at Huddersfield on payment of 75p
|
|
37057
Forum Member
Posts: 869
|
Post by 37057 on Jan 5, 2016 23:09:52 GMT 1
PB0000815/919 - FIRST WEST YORKSHIRE LTD, HUNSLET PARK DEPOT, DONISTHORPE STREET, LEEDS, LS10 1PL Registration Accepted Starting Point: Bradford Finish Point: Brighouse Via: Service Number: 256 Service Type: Normal Stopping Effective Date: 21-FEB-2016 Other Details: Monday to Friday Peak About time bradford gained a route with the amout they've lost over the years. Will the 611/X11 extentsion to leeds be run by bradford?
|
|
|
Post by westyorkshirebus on Jan 5, 2016 23:40:49 GMT 1
The incumbent operator always has the advantage except that he may be severely undercut by a low cost operator A sensible LA would always try to use the incumbent because of the advantages to passengers. Rather than pay the operator it would negotiate the service in return for better bus priority. QCs are not he answer- the QC board showed that the Nexus proposal was hopelessly uneconomic. Only London has money to burn and even they might see sense one day I wouldn't say bus priority has anything to do with this case, as we are talking about evenings and/or Sunday's when traffic isn't an issue or rural services where traffic isn't an issue. Rather than going with a 'low cost' operator, the alternative is in many cases having to go with a 'high profit' operator, which was the case when First/Arriva etc were the only bidders for any contracts.
|
|
kendall17
Forum Member
Justice for the 96!
Posts: 4,515
|
Post by kendall17 on Jan 5, 2016 23:43:50 GMT 1
PB0000815/784 - FIRST WEST YORKSHIRE LTD, HUNSLET PARK DEPOT, DONISTHORPE STREET, LEEDS, LS10 1PL Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Leeds Rail Station and Leeds Rail Station given service number Leeds City Bus effective from 21-Feb-2016. Is this the beginning of the end of the Free Buses? I, know Leeds City Council haven't paid for the Leeds one, for a few years, when that 50p charge came in for non-holders of any operator ticket/Metrocard/M-card/OAP/Disabled passes. Unsurprisingly it's going., I've heard of 12-15 times round for a driver, taking just £19. Doesn't cover the wages let alone running costs.
|
|
|
Post by westyorkshirebus on Jan 5, 2016 23:49:44 GMT 1
Was it not still subsidised, just less than it was when it was free. Plus anyone with any sort of pass was allowed to travel for free so they will get revenue from encts and metro card, so cash fares probably don't tell the whole story.
Regarding the other free buses, the Kirklees ones have allegedly been at risk for years but nothing has ever come of it, so it might just be worst case scenario threats by the council in the papers. The Bradford one has never been up for debate I don't think and Bradford Council continue to fund it. I wouldn't know about Wakefield's as I don't read their local press.
|
|
|
Post by mk2mcw on Jan 6, 2016 0:42:25 GMT 1
PB0000815/919 - FIRST WEST YORKSHIRE LTD, HUNSLET PARK DEPOT, DONISTHORPE STREET, LEEDS, LS10 1PL Registration Accepted Starting Point: Bradford Finish Point: Brighouse Via: Service Number: 256 Service Type: Normal Stopping Effective Date: 21-FEB-2016 Other Details: Monday to Friday Peak About time bradford gained a route with the amout they've lost over the years. Will the 611/X11 extentsion to leeds be run by bradford? I'm not sure it IS going to Leeds I think its Just an old registration from the old X11
|
|
kendall17
Forum Member
Justice for the 96!
Posts: 4,515
|
Post by kendall17 on Jan 6, 2016 1:15:42 GMT 1
Was it not still subsidised, just less than it was when it was free. Plus anyone with any sort of pass was allowed to travel for free so they will get revenue from encts and metro card, so cash fares probably don't tell the whole picture Whilst I agree, they give a good idea of what patronage is like. They receive no subsidy for the service. Think it has slowly lost popularity, I haven't used it in a number of years despite always having a pass.
|
|
andyk4050
Forum Member
Posts: 906
Member is Online
|
Post by andyk4050 on Jan 6, 2016 7:50:27 GMT 1
About time bradford gained a route with the amout they've lost over the years. Will the 611/X11 extentsion to leeds be run by bradford? I'm not sure it IS going to Leeds I think its Just an old registration from the old X11 The X11 is being extended to Bradford via the 611 route, running only as far as park row in Leeds though, like the X14. It's going to run a few trips both directions at peak times
|
|
andyk4050
Forum Member
Posts: 906
Member is Online
|
Post by andyk4050 on Jan 6, 2016 8:05:07 GMT 1
[/quote]a post further up suggested that a revised 5 would serve the LGI so this could be the answer[/quote]
I can now confirm the service 5 is going to be serving the LGI on a Monday to Saturday with a altered route on a Sunday daytime as mention earlier
Monday to Saturday it will run normal route from Halton moor to Leeds Rail Station then will go the same route as the City Bus round to Albion street, then will go right on the Headrow/Westgate the left down park row to city square then normal route back to Halton Moor.
Sunday daytime it will do same as above as far as King Street/East Parade then it will go straight up side of Town Hall/Library upto side of Brotherton Wing/millennium square then turns right onto Portland Way, to join the City bus route to Albion street then Headrow/Westgate then park row similar to the above route
|
|
|
Post by dwarfer1979 on Jan 6, 2016 9:23:29 GMT 1
Fair point, although again it isn't always straight forward. I know York council used to require Transdev to accept return tickets issued by First on the evening services on the 10, but when First stopped selling return tickets and just sold FirstDay tickets, that stipulation was dropped. As Arriva usually issue a day ticket instead of a return, it may be the same factor at play. Though as I said in most places that do this they require all valid tickets & passes, including Day tickets & longer season tickets. With the increase of operator specific electronic tickets (Smartcards & mobile tickets) you could see this becoming more tricky as not everyone will be able to read everything but paper versions could still be used on return & day at the very least.
|
|
|
Post by dwarfer1979 on Jan 6, 2016 9:33:06 GMT 1
Metro could cheaply specify recognition of other companies tickets but will not do so as it wanted to show that deregulation was bad for passengers. The policy of course depresses bus use and increases Metro's bills. Things might change for the better when the new director is in post. Doesn't this give undue preferential treatment to the incumbent operator, as smaller operators would have to factor in customers travelling on other companies tickets? Would you expect LOT to get reimbursed from Arriva for carrying their passengers, or would Metro fund that? In reality there is no easy way of sorting this, it does sound like it is heading towards the sort of situation that Nexus want, which I'm sure many wouldn't want. On most work it wouldn't make that much difference, particularly as the non-incumbents will price their tender based on what the council tells them the estimated income is which would not generally include passengers currently travelling on returns/seasons so this missing income is often already priced into the contract price even if not specified simply because this revenue is unknown until the tender is awarded to a different operator. No one would reimburse anyone for the passengers carried it is just factored into the price of the contract generally to, in most cases, very little effect for this sort of evening/weekend work. If you were to put requirements to more generally on all contracts accept all valid passes (much rarer and I think dying out a lot due to this issue) this would have a more significant impact on contract prices as this could encourage passengers to buy tickets from the dominant operator for the flexibility even if they normally use the smaller operator on tendered work.
|
|
Steve Macz403
Forum Member
Waits at the bus stop for his bus, 2 days later bus turns up :D
Posts: 1,679
|
Post by Steve Macz403 on Jan 6, 2016 12:39:04 GMT 1
a post further up suggested that a revised 5 would serve the LGI so this could be the answer[/quote] Might as well rerouted the 5 up via the city bus way at all times on evening and Sunday's. Rather than running straight up to LGI.
|
|
37057
Forum Member
Posts: 869
|
Post by 37057 on Jan 6, 2016 14:02:27 GMT 1
I'm not sure it IS going to Leeds I think its Just an old registration from the old X11 The X11 is being extended to Bradford via the 611 route, running only as far as park row in Leeds though, like the X14. It's going to run a few trips both directions at peak times Which depot ?
|
|
andyk4050
Forum Member
Posts: 906
Member is Online
|
Post by andyk4050 on Jan 6, 2016 14:19:18 GMT 1
It's meant to be Bradford, because on the registration it says depot transfer
|
|
|
Post by whereami on Jan 6, 2016 15:37:42 GMT 1
PB0000815/919 - FIRST WEST YORKSHIRE LTD, HUNSLET PARK DEPOT, DONISTHORPE STREET, LEEDS, LS10 1PL Registration Accepted Starting Point: Bradford Finish Point: Brighouse Via: Service Number: 256 Service Type: Normal Stopping Effective Date: 21-FEB-2016 Other Details: Monday to Friday Peak Does this include the School Journeys to Whitcliffe Mount on a morning, that goes from East Bierley to Birkenshaw, Gomersal, instead of via Hunsworth, and the afternoon journey? Hope their drivers get told to use the ferry lift, cos, they'll need it coming out of Hunsworth Lane across Whitehall Road.
|
|
SF07
Forum Member
Posts: 3,216
|
Post by SF07 on Jan 11, 2016 19:45:47 GMT 1
PB0000582/135 - ARRIVA YORKSHIRE LTD, 24 BARNSLEY ROAD, WAKEFIELD, WF1 5JX Variation Accepted by SN: Operating between Selby and Pontefract given service number 476 effective from 22-Feb-2016. To amend Timetable.
|
|
davep
Forum Member
Posts: 56
|
Post by davep on Jan 11, 2016 23:28:57 GMT 1
Regarding 268A/268 does anybody what change to the route is going to be, dare it venture in to darkest Ossett where it may never been seen again! The locals here may not have hike to the bottom Dale Street to get to Bradford or a quick run into Wakefield unless you are following a 126 of either Star or Arriva, just another thought it does seem strange that old Arriva service number are appearing with or am I been just little sentimental.......
|
|
|
Post by Penfold on Jan 12, 2016 20:32:07 GMT 1
PB0000582/135 - ARRIVA YORKSHIRE LTD, 24 BARNSLEY ROAD, WAKEFIELD, WF1 5JX Variation Accepted by SN: Operating between Selby and Pontefract given service number 476 effective from 22-Feb-2016. To amend Timetable. The 476 is being re-introduced between Selby & Pontefract as the current 150 will only run Wakefield to Knottingley from the February changes. This co-incides with the Max'ing of 184/5/9 group and ALL services (including early mornings/Sundays etc) moving to Castleford depot. All Knottingley services will be operated by BI depot hence the curtailment of the 150 at Knottingley. No plans for Max at the present time. 4 or 5 deckers (Id's unknown) are believed to transferring from Arriva North East to Arriva Yorkshire (depot unknown at present but likely to be BI) to cover for an increase in PVR (and/or withdrawal of the remaining President). Penfold
|
|