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Post by peteleeds on Jan 1, 2016 13:46:34 GMT 1
Seems metro are determined to force everyone off single operator tickets and onto their own multi operator tickets which are considerably dearer. As a passenger it's so frustrating knowing your paying more because your return journey will be the same route and number but run by a different company. I wonder how many people make the mistake of getting the single operator ticket e.g a firstday. To find they can't use it to get home.
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Post by Burnside on Jan 1, 2016 14:39:22 GMT 1
At the same time though, Metro have to go for the best value bid for tenders, so if LOT bid 15% cheaper than the nearest competing bid, it's better value for taxpayers.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jan 1, 2016 15:12:03 GMT 1
And to be fair we've historically had very little of this here due to First and Arriva's dominance which annoyed Metro as they could tender high prices with no competition. It's only in recent years we've started to see evening and sunday tenders run by someone else.
In other areas they have a lot more of this type of thing.
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Post by Dom on Jan 1, 2016 15:25:59 GMT 1
Looks like I'll be walking home then, bearing in mind on a Friday and Saturday night the 252 at 2130 and 2230 gets full, usually fully seated downstairs, and quite a few upstairs. A primo can't hold the same amount of people, I do hope they get something or a larger variety, at least a few full size single deckers. That's what one of our mates said earlier today in a text RP?
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Steve Macz403
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Jan 1, 2016 16:31:28 GMT 1
Seems metro are determined to force everyone off single operator tickets and onto their own multi operator tickets which are considerably dearer. As a passenger it's so frustrating knowing your paying more because your return journey will be the same route and number but run by a different company. I wonder how many people make the mistake of getting the single operator ticket e.g a firstday. To find they can't use it to get home. This problem is more common in Manchester ( where some services are ran by different operators, evenings and Sunday's) I can see this creating issues with ticketing though. Does anyone know why it's the Kirkless services are being taken over by different operator.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jan 1, 2016 17:32:43 GMT 1
Because its that area that is up for grabs this time.
Huddersfield was in October where TLC won daytime tenders and Tiger won evening tenders. Next time it will be another area.
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Post by whereami on Jan 1, 2016 18:25:22 GMT 1
Because its that area that is up for grabs this time. Huddersfield was in October where TLC won daytime tenders and Tiger won evening tenders. Next time it will be another area. TLC also got Evening Tenders on 303/341/342/396, not just Daytime Tenders
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Post by timelesstable on Jan 1, 2016 19:33:58 GMT 1
How many vehicles do Ladies Only Travel have? Cos, they'll need 3 on 252 & 2 on 212 Monday to Saturday plus 3 for 223 daytime Sunday, 2 night time They've got at least 2 Primo's from Reays, Carlisle - YX60DXD & DXH I heard that LOT could have as many as 5 of those little beauties
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Post by Jonesy on Jan 2, 2016 18:07:50 GMT 1
PB0000582/9 - ARRIVA YORKSHIRE LTD, 24 BARNSLEY ROAD, WAKEFIELD, WF1 5JX Variation Accepted: Operating between Castleford and Pontefract given service number 184 effective from 22-Feb-2016. To amend Timetable. PB0000582/20 - ARRIVA YORKSHIRE LTD, 24 BARNSLEY ROAD, WAKEFIELD, WF1 5JX Variation Accepted: Operating between Wakefield and Pontefract given service number 186/187/188 effective from 22-Feb-2016. To amend Timetable. PB0000582/21 - ARRIVA YORKSHIRE LTD, 24 BARNSLEY ROAD, WAKEFIELD, WF1 5JX Variation Accepted: Operating between Wakefield and Barnsley given service number 193/194/195/196/506 effective from 22-Feb-2016. To amend Timetable. PB0000582/42 - ARRIVA YORKSHIRE LTD, 24 BARNSLEY ROAD, WAKEFIELD, WF1 5JX Variation Accepted: Operating between Pontefract and Doncaster given service number 409/408/411/420 effective from 22-Feb-2016. To amend Timetable. PB0000582/44 - ARRIVA YORKSHIRE LTD, 24 BARNSLEY ROAD, WAKEFIELD, WF1 5JX Variation Accepted: Operating between Chequerfield and Leeds given service number 410 effective from 22-Feb-2016. To amend Route and Timetable. PB0000582/130 - ARRIVA YORKSHIRE LTD, 24 BARNSLEY ROAD, WAKEFIELD, WF1 5JX Variation Accepted: Operating between Castleford and Pontefract given service number 177 effective from 22-Feb-2016. To amend Timetable. PB0000582/133 - ARRIVA YORKSHIRE LTD, 24 BARNSLEY ROAD, WAKEFIELD, WF1 5JX Registration Accepted Starting Point: Wakefield Finish Point: Leeds Via: Service Number: 189 Service Type: Normal Stopping Effective Date: 22-FEB-2016 Other Details: PB0000582/134 - ARRIVA YORKSHIRE LTD, 24 BARNSLEY ROAD, WAKEFIELD, WF1 5JX Registration Accepted Starting Point: Castleford Finish Point: Pontefract Via: Service Number: 411 Service Type: Normal Stopping Effective Date: 22-FEB-2016 Other Details: PB0000582/135 - ARRIVA YORKSHIRE LTD, 24 BARNSLEY ROAD, WAKEFIELD, WF1 5JX Registration Accepted Starting Point: Selby Finish Point: Pontefract Via: Service Number: 476 Service Type: Normal Stopping Effective Date: 22-FEB-2016 Other Details: Introduce new service 476 Apprently 189 Every 10 Mins Cas Waki with Extension from cas bus station to Leeds and Pontefract Plus 185 Withdrawn and Replaced by 186 to Pontefract via Altofts
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Post by timelesstable on Jan 2, 2016 19:29:13 GMT 1
They've got at least 2 Primo's from Reays, Carlisle - YX60DXD & DXH I heard that LOT could have as many as 5 of those little beauties Or even 7 of them, they seem to be breeding
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jan 2, 2016 23:29:32 GMT 1
I am currently due to come to the wider Castleford area just after these February changes. I am relieved that route 410 should still provide a direct link from Leeds to Pontefract.
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Post by andyk4050 on Jan 4, 2016 12:30:31 GMT 1
PB0000815/784 - FIRST WEST YORKSHIRE LTD, HUNSLET PARK DEPOT, DONISTHORPE STREET, LEEDS, LS10 1PL Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Leeds Rail Station and Leeds Rail Station given service number Leeds City Bus effective from 21-Feb-2016.
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Post by angrycommuter on Jan 4, 2016 13:41:32 GMT 1
They've got at least 2 Primo's from Reays, Carlisle - YX60DXD & DXH Looks like I'll be walking home then, bearing in mind on a Friday and Saturday night the 252 at 2130 and 2230 gets full, usually fully seated downstairs, and quite a few upstairs. A primo can't hold the same amount of people, I do hope they get something or a larger variety, at least a few full size single deckers. If some services are getting full the question of why are they included in a tender batch should be raised. A full service should be able to pay for itself.
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Post by whereami on Jan 4, 2016 14:07:49 GMT 1
PB0000815/784 - FIRST WEST YORKSHIRE LTD, HUNSLET PARK DEPOT, DONISTHORPE STREET, LEEDS, LS10 1PL Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Leeds Rail Station and Leeds Rail Station given service number Leeds City Bus effective from 21-Feb-2016. Is this the beginning of the end of the Free Buses? I, know Leeds City Council haven't paid for the Leeds one, for a few years, when that 50p charge came in for non-holders of any operator ticket/Metrocard/M-card/OAP/Disabled passes.
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Post by andyk4050 on Jan 4, 2016 14:13:48 GMT 1
PB0000815/784 - FIRST WEST YORKSHIRE LTD, HUNSLET PARK DEPOT, DONISTHORPE STREET, LEEDS, LS10 1PL Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Leeds Rail Station and Leeds Rail Station given service number Leeds City Bus effective from 21-Feb-2016. Is this the beginning of the end of the Free Buses? I, know Leeds City Council haven't paid for the Leeds one, for a few years, when that 50p charge came in for non-holders of any operator ticket/Metrocard/M-card/OAP/Disabled passes. I think first are partly replacing it with a another service, so it won't have the 50p fare anymore, will just be normal First fares
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Post by mk2mcw on Jan 4, 2016 16:12:09 GMT 1
Is this the beginning of the end of the Free Buses? I, know Leeds City Council haven't paid for the Leeds one, for a few years, when that 50p charge came in for non-holders of any operator ticket/Metrocard/M-card/OAP/Disabled passes. I think first are partly replacing it with a another service, so it won't have the 50p fare anymore, will just be normal First fares a post further up suggested that a revised 5 would serve the LGI so this could be the answer
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Post by mk2mcw on Jan 4, 2016 16:13:54 GMT 1
PB1078487/107 - YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Cancellation Accepted: Operating between White Rose Centre and Bradford given service number 711 effective from 21-Feb-2016. I expected this I think geldards cheap fares could have been a reason why tiger couldn't keep it going it was only £1.50 from White rose to Bradford and it was unchanged for the whole time geldards ran the route
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Post by mk2mcw on Jan 4, 2016 16:14:30 GMT 1
PB1078487/107 - YORKSHIRE TIGER LIMITED, UNIT G10, LOCK VIEW, LOWFIELDS BUSINESS PARK, ELLAND, HX5 9HD Cancellation Accepted: Operating between White Rose Centre and Bradford given service number 711 effective from 21-Feb-2016. I expected this I think geldards cheap fares could have been a reason why tiger couldn't keep it going it was only £1.50 from White rose to Bradford and it was unchanged for the whole time geldards ran the route what do tiger charge?
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Post by stevieinselby on Jan 4, 2016 19:14:49 GMT 1
Looks like I'll be walking home then, bearing in mind on a Friday and Saturday night the 252 at 2130 and 2230 gets full, usually fully seated downstairs, and quite a few upstairs. A primo can't hold the same amount of people, I do hope they get something or a larger variety, at least a few full size single deckers. If some services are getting full the question of why are they included in a tender batch should be raised. A full service should be able to pay for itself. It may not be just that one journey in isolation – it may be having to bear the costs of almost empty workings that are part of the same diagram. If it is at the end of the day, it may be generating very little in the way of income, if the majority of passengers have bought tickets earlier in the day (and fewer passengers travelling on ENCTS), meaning that depending on how the operator allocates revenue from multi-journey tickets it could be calculated to be a service that is not commercially viable. It's all very well saying that they should run it commercially, but if they reckon that it costs them more to run than they get in attributable income (ie, people who bought tickets earlier in the day will mostly still do so) then the correct market decision is not to run it.
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Post by whereami on Jan 4, 2016 20:18:08 GMT 1
If some services are getting full the question of why are they included in a tender batch should be raised. A full service should be able to pay for itself. It may not be just that one journey in isolation – it may be having to bear the costs of almost empty workings that are part of the same diagram. If it is at the end of the day, it may be generating very little in the way of income, if the majority of passengers have bought tickets earlier in the day (and fewer passengers travelling on ENCTS), meaning that depending on how the operator allocates revenue from multi-journey tickets it could be calculated to be a service that is not commercially viable. It's all very well saying that they should run it commercially, but if they reckon that it costs them more to run than they get in attributable income (ie, people who bought tickets earlier in the day will mostly still do so) then the correct market decision is not to run it. The problem is steveinselby, at the moment, the 252 is operated by Arriva and the majority of tickets used on an evening are normally Arriva Day Tickets, when this route, changes to Ladies Only Travel, the Arriva tickets won't be valid on their journeys, and most people, unlike members of this forum, won't even check what's changing etc. Then, they'll complain etc
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Post by 69340 on Jan 4, 2016 23:52:47 GMT 1
I expected this I think geldards cheap fares could have been a reason why tiger couldn't keep it going it was only £1.50 from White rose to Bradford and it was unchanged for the whole time geldards ran the route what do tiger charge? Tiger charges £3 single from white rose to Bradford £5 return also normal day rider fares also apply
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Post by stevieinselby on Jan 5, 2016 1:45:51 GMT 1
It may not be just that one journey in isolation – it may be having to bear the costs of almost empty workings that are part of the same diagram. If it is at the end of the day, it may be generating very little in the way of income, if the majority of passengers have bought tickets earlier in the day (and fewer passengers travelling on ENCTS), meaning that depending on how the operator allocates revenue from multi-journey tickets it could be calculated to be a service that is not commercially viable. It's all very well saying that they should run it commercially, but if they reckon that it costs them more to run than they get in attributable income (ie, people who bought tickets earlier in the day will mostly still do so) then the correct market decision is not to run it. The problem is steveinselby, at the moment, the 252 is operated by Arriva and the majority of tickets used on an evening are normally Arriva Day Tickets, when this route, changes to Ladies Only Travel, the Arriva tickets won't be valid on their journeys, and most people, unlike members of this forum, won't even check what's changing etc. Then, they'll complain etc Oh sure, I'm not saying that I approve of this state of affairs, I am completely with you that it is a rubbish deal for passengers, but if you have a free market paradigm then this is a likely outcome – operators maximising their profits at passengers' expense.
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Jan 5, 2016 9:17:28 GMT 1
The problem is steveinselby, at the moment, the 252 is operated by Arriva and the majority of tickets used on an evening are normally Arriva Day Tickets, when this route, changes to Ladies Only Travel, the Arriva tickets won't be valid on their journeys, and most people, unlike members of this forum, won't even check what's changing etc. Then, they'll complain etc Oh sure, I'm not saying that I approve of this state of affairs, I am completely with you that it is a rubbish deal for passengers, but if you have a free market paradigm then this is a likely outcome – operators maximising their profits at passengers' expense. It's nothing to do with a free market and all to do with how Metro tender for their services, specifically how they word their requirements. Many authorities when tendering extra journeys on an otherwise commercial service (or where the evening and daytime tenders are separate) have a requirement in their tenders that the contracting operator accepts all valid tickets & passes from the 'main' operator (and often all valid tickets on any parallel services more generally as well). Doing this may add a little to the price of the tender, in practice probably not much for most tenders, though if individual journeys are as busy as indicated it may add more cost as you can add all the extra single ticket sales created by the fact they can't use the same ticket on both operators to help reduce your tender price. I was somewhat surprised when I started working on West Yorkshire services to find that they didn't include this requirement though it appears there are more authorities that don't include this than you would think given the obvious logic of including such a small caveat.
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Post by stevieinselby on Jan 5, 2016 10:44:24 GMT 1
It's nothing to do with a free market and all to do with how Metro tender for their services, specifically how they word their requirements. Many authorities when tendering extra journeys on an otherwise commercial service (or where the evening and daytime tenders are separate) have a requirement in their tenders that the contracting operator accepts all valid tickets & passes from the 'main' operator (and often all valid tickets on any parallel services more generally as well). Doing this may add a little to the price of the tender, in practice probably not much for most tenders, though if individual journeys are as busy as indicated it may add more cost as you can add all the extra single ticket sales created by the fact they can't use the same ticket on both operators to help reduce your tender price. I was somewhat surprised when I started working on West Yorkshire services to find that they didn't include this requirement though it appears there are more authorities that don't include this than you would think given the obvious logic of including such a small caveat. Fair point, although again it isn't always straight forward. I know York council used to require Transdev to accept return tickets issued by First on the evening services on the 10, but when First stopped selling return tickets and just sold FirstDay tickets, that stipulation was dropped. As Arriva usually issue a day ticket instead of a return, it may be the same factor at play.
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Post by rwilkes on Jan 5, 2016 10:50:35 GMT 1
Metro could cheaply specify recognition of other companies tickets but will not do so as it wanted to show that deregulation was bad for passengers. The policy of course depresses bus use and increases Metro's bills. Things might change for the better when the new director is in post.
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