|
|
Post by Bradford Traveller on Mar 27, 2023 20:29:11 GMT 1
|
|
Username
Forum Member
I need to get my eyes checked, I've just seen a Streetlite and my eyes are burning
Posts: 1,012
|
Post by Username on Mar 27, 2023 22:48:35 GMT 1
Maybe if the 64 still went Otley and maybe if it replaced the 62 Leeds Bradford Airport it could have picked up more passengers. |
|
|
|
Post by stevieinselby on Mar 27, 2023 22:57:39 GMT 1
Maybe if the 64 still went Otley and maybe if it replaced the 62 Leeds Bradford Airport it could have picked up more passengers. You mean you want them to reinstate routes that they have already abandoned because they didn't get enough traffic, as a solution to other routes not getting enough traffic? 🤔 |
|
|
|
Post by northerner on Mar 27, 2023 23:04:49 GMT 1
Maybe if the 64 still went Otley and maybe if it replaced the 62 Leeds Bradford Airport it could have picked up more passengers. Linking the 64 in with the 62 cycle whilst operationally convenient did cause the 62 to be inefficient. Prior to the changes in February 2021 the 62 was self contained and had relatively short layovers at each end. Now it has around 20 minutes in Keighley, increasing to just under 30 minutes in the afternoon peak plus a generous layover in Ilkley for those which don't switch to a 64. By removing the need to interlink at Ilkley could potentially save a bus and driver on the 62, saving money without having an impact on the frequency. |
|
|
|
Post by deerfold on Mar 28, 2023 11:31:05 GMT 1
Maybe if the 64 still went Otley and maybe if it replaced the 62 Leeds Bradford Airport it could have picked up more passengers. You mean you want them to reinstate routes that they have already abandoned because they didn't get enough traffic, as a solution to other routes not getting enough traffic? 🤔 They (more or less) took on First's reduced Covid timetable which was not terribly useful for most people catching the bus for work, even those not on shifts. It wasn't much use for those travelling between Addingham and Ilkley as it was almost always a couple of minutes off a 62. And it seemed random as to whether it served Low Mill or went along the main road. |
|
lucyp
Forum Member
Posts: 142
|
Post by lucyp on Mar 28, 2023 14:39:44 GMT 1
The Hornby legacy isn't looking too good is it?
|
|
|
|
Post by SCH117X on Mar 28, 2023 16:42:20 GMT 1
The Hornby legacy isn't looking too good is it? For *** sake its a NYCC supported service being cut to normal NYCC standards - will you drop your attitute because everyone is fed up of you |
|
lucyp
Forum Member
Posts: 142
|
Post by lucyp on Mar 28, 2023 18:14:22 GMT 1
You need to look at the truth. Hornby started the service commercially, when First withdrew that leg of the X84. That was the wrong decision, so they then had to go cap in hand to the Council for a subsidy. Even that isn't now sufficient, and they now want to cut the service further, which the "Friends of Dales Bus" are rightly criticising.
|
|
|
|
Post by stevieinselby on Mar 28, 2023 18:24:58 GMT 1
You need to look at the truth. Hornby started the service commercially, when First withdrew that leg of the X84. That was the wrong decision, so they then had to go cap in hand to the Council for a subsidy. Even that isn't now sufficient, and they now want to cut the service further, which the "Friends of Dales Bus" are rightly criticising. Absolute nonsense. They stepped in to run the 784 (as it was then) in the hope that they could save it and make it viable by running it at a lower operating cost than First had done as the X84. The industry has not recovered as well as hoped and the general economy has fared worse, and so the route remains unprofitable, and needs subsidy to keep it running. If they hadn't stepped in in the first place then the council would have had to fund it for the last 18 months as well as in the future, and for the last 18 months there would have been a worse service on the route. When Transdev decided that the 64 and 72 were not commercially sustainable in the current climate, initially NYCC put in place short-term funding to maintain the existing timetables – it was never their intention to keep this going long-term, as they don't subsidise any service to run more than every 2 hours as a matter of policy. This planned reduction in service is simply the transition from the short-term "oh heck, we need to do something to keep the wheels turning" phase into the long-term planned timetable phase. |
|
|
|
Post by twansport on Mar 28, 2023 18:35:12 GMT 1
You could argue that if Transdev didn’t step in commercially, there was a risk that a cross-border service would end completely. NYCC could run Skipton to Draughton or even the Craven Heifer at Addingham. First and Connexions could be interested in a subsidised service if they had not stepped in. They have now effectively sewn up two routes out of Skipton, that would be facing more serious cuts today if they had not made the intervention that they had made.
Is it worth it? Possibly, possibly not!
|
|
joseph
Forum Member
Posts: 1,139
|
Post by joseph on Mar 28, 2023 18:41:13 GMT 1
This is the bit nobody is getting. The bus is used mostly by pass holders (a lunch time journey from Skipton to Ilkley two weeks ago carried nothing but pass holders) and NYCC don't pay out much for pass holders. It's either the service is cut, or pass holders learn to cough up! I can't blame NYCC for not paying out much for pass holders as there are significantly more important things to pay up for, e.g. adult social care.
|
|
|
|
Post by westyorkshirebus on Mar 28, 2023 19:25:27 GMT 1
Maybe if the 64 still went Otley and maybe if it replaced the 62 Leeds Bradford Airport it could have picked up more passengers. It would have to pick up a hell of a lot more passengers as you’ve just doubled the resource allocated to the service |
|
|
|
Post by SCH117X on Mar 28, 2023 20:57:16 GMT 1
15 May is the actual date for the change by which time people might be getting use to citising North Yorkshire Council rather than County Council for their appalling public transport policy - surely someone there ought to be able to work out if you pay operators peanuts for concessionary passes then that is going to mean more services having to be subisided and if you paid operators more services might be commercially sound.
|
|
|
|
Post by platform5 on Mar 28, 2023 22:38:51 GMT 1
It’s just an industry in decline. Nothing can help it now in most rural areas.
|
|
|
|
Post by northerner on Mar 28, 2023 22:40:39 GMT 1
15 May is the actual date for the change by which time people might be getting use to citising North Yorkshire Council rather than County Council for their appalling public transport policy - surely someone there ought to be able to work out if you pay operators peanuts for concessionary passes then that is going to mean more services having to be subisided and if you paid operators more services might be commercially sound. Whilst I don't disagree, the money would have to come from somewhere. With many councils already increasing the council tax by the maximum permitted, where would the funds come from? Ideally there would be a standard formula used for reimbursement for concessionary travel, which would also put the onus on operators to reduce their overheads as much as possible. In the case of the 64/72, transferring the route to Idle would reduce operating costs as their drivers are on a lower rate of pay than Keighley for example. |
|
|
|
Post by deerfold on Mar 28, 2023 23:38:18 GMT 1
You need to look at the truth. Hornby started the service commercially, when First withdrew that leg of the X84. That was the wrong decision, so they then had to go cap in hand to the Council for a subsidy. Even that isn't now sufficient, and they now want to cut the service further, which the "Friends of Dales Bus" are rightly criticising. Hang on. You've managed to criticise them for saving a service that First cut and then for cutting the level of service. Surely if they hadn't bothered in the first place, there'd be no service for them to cut? What would you like them to have done? Nothing? I'm sure, as usual, I'll get no response from you. |
|
|
|
Post by leedsbusman on Mar 29, 2023 0:17:12 GMT 1
15 May is the actual date for the change by which time people might be getting use to citising North Yorkshire Council rather than County Council for their appalling public transport policy - surely someone there ought to be able to work out if you pay operators peanuts for concessionary passes then that is going to mean more services having to be subisided and if you paid operators more services might be commercially sound. Whilst I don't disagree, the money would have to come from somewhere. With many councils already increasing the council tax by the maximum permitted, where would the funds come from? Ideally there would be a standard formula used for reimbursement for concessionary travel, which would also put the onus on operators to reduce their overheads as much as possible. In the case of the 64/72, transferring the route to Idle would reduce operating costs as their drivers are on a lower rate of pay than Keighley for example. Setting aside the point that drivers wages aren’t overheads - they are variable costs - Idle depot is twice as far from Skipton as Keighley is which would surely mean more paid hours which would offset the lower rate. Maybe that’s why the 64 (as 784) moved to Keighley in the first place. |
|
joseph
Forum Member
Posts: 1,139
|
Post by joseph on Mar 29, 2023 5:36:02 GMT 1
It's interesting why Transdev aren't trying to tap into the Chinese pound to boost income on the 64, especially with Ilkley train station being so close to Leeds and Skipton having a lot of that history China seems so obsessed by. You just need to go South to Sheffield and see the very high numbers boarding buses to the Peak District to see what I'm on about. Now that the 64 and 72 are linked, a trick would be to tap into through users to Grassington, especially those from the Leeds area provided the timings are close enough to the train.
|
|
|
|
Post by rwilkes on Mar 29, 2023 9:51:37 GMT 1
It’s just an industry in decline. Nothing can help it now in most rural areas. It is not an industry in decline. It is an industry being wrecked by stupid political decisions such as bringing in free OAP fares and then not funding them There are many other issues, like rail getting losts of government help such as low fuel duty and buses get minimal help . Except when they get lotsof help it is not well spent The £2 fare is expensive for the government but is not the best way of helping buses. |
|
|
|
Post by SCH117X on Mar 29, 2023 10:08:59 GMT 1
Suppose to comes down to how many MPs use the train v how many use a bus
|
|
Username
Forum Member
I need to get my eyes checked, I've just seen a Streetlite and my eyes are burning
Posts: 1,012
|
Post by Username on Mar 29, 2023 11:57:25 GMT 1
It’s just an industry in decline. Nothing can help it now in most rural areas. I think when it comes to rural bus services it seems like Calderdale is really good. Services 561/2 are very rural and takes you to rural villages and hamlets like Norland, Krumlim, Soyland, Cottonstones and Millbank and the demand certainly is there. Back in 2014, they tried to reduce the service to every 90 minutes rather than hourly however that backfired in the public consultation rounds as many people said they wanted an hourly frequency to remain. Another prime example is the X58 (587). WYCA wanted to drop the service however the demand was there as during the consultation rounds people wanted to have that direct link across the Pennines to Rochdale. |
|
lucyp
Forum Member
Posts: 142
|
Post by lucyp on Mar 29, 2023 13:25:41 GMT 1
And what you do is to find opportunities in a declining industry. You don't do that buy spending £millions on brand new double deckers, and then yet more money on designers to come up with ideas to spend even more money on "pimping up" these new buses, and/or trying to compete with railway lines that are the subject of the biggest rail infrastructure and rolling stock upgrade in the North, because you will lose and have to Zap off.
Once those costs are on your balance sheet then you have a problem. That is a lot of debt, depreciation or lease costs to service.
Without those costs, you can purchase some older and/or smaller buses, run a low-cost operation, and make money.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2023 16:38:16 GMT 1
It’s just an industry in decline. Nothing can help it now in most rural areas. It is not an industry in decline. It is an industry being wrecked by stupid political decisions such as bringing in free OAP fares and then not funding them There are many other issues, like rail getting losts of government help such as low fuel duty and buses get minimal help . Except when they get lotsof help it is not well spent The £2 fare is expensive for the government but is not the best way of helping buses. Whilst I Agree the current set up is wrecking the bus network - I Don't think it's far to put the blame on the railway, as they are both public transport so investment in either (should be both IMO) is a good thing (although look at how many rail projects have been given the axe, including them that could of helped bus services). The £2 government bus fares was not meant to help bus services, as it was part of the cost of living package It’s just an industry in decline. Nothing can help it now in most rural areas. I think when it comes to rural bus services it seems like Calderdale is really good. Services 561/2 are very rural and takes you to rural villages and hamlets like Norland, Krumlim, Soyland, Cottonstones and Millbank and the demand certainly is there. Back in 2014, they tried to reduce the service to every 90 minutes rather than hourly however that backfired in the public consultation rounds as many people said they wanted an hourly frequency to remain. Another prime example is the X58 (587). WYCA wanted to drop the service however the demand was there as during the consultation rounds people wanted to have that direct link across the Pennines to Rochdale. 561/2 Are lucky compared to North Yorkshire services for various reasons, for one they operate in a PTE area that provides better funding for services. Them also serving a number of larger settlements helps also alongside the main Hospital for the area plus no doubt have been helped by the various cuts to the 'direct' services to the likes of Rippondon. And what you do is to find opportunities in a declining industry. You don't do that buy spending £millions on brand new double deckers, and then yet more money on designers to come up with ideas to spend even more money on "pimping up" these new buses, and/or trying to compete with railway lines that are the subject of the biggest rail infrastructure and rolling stock upgrade in the North, because you will lose and have to Zap off. Once those costs are on your balance sheet then you have a problem. That is a lot of debt, depreciation or lease costs to service. Without those costs, you can purchase some older and/or smaller buses, run a low-cost operation, and make money. Not sure you can blame the 'Sky Class' deckers for this, whilst you have a point over CityZap don't forget they also have them on Witchway in Lanacashire,so they would of been spent the money on designing the interior anyway (& AFAIK the X43 was making a fairly decent profit pre-covid, when these vehicles was ordered) Although as cross-subsidy is not allowed for private bus companies, even if they didn't have the CityZap losses to pay for it wouldn't make a difference to 64/72,as they are loss making routes & Its upto the council to decide what type of service they are willing to pay - North Yorks are now only willing to pay for 2 Hourly service so that's what Transdev will operate, it would be the same with any other company. |
|
|
|
Post by westyorkshirebus on Mar 29, 2023 17:52:10 GMT 1
And what you do is to find opportunities in a declining industry. You don't do that buy spending £millions on brand new double deckers, and then yet more money on designers to come up with ideas to spend even more money on "pimping up" these new buses, and/or trying to compete with railway lines that are the subject of the biggest rail infrastructure and rolling stock upgrade in the North, because you will lose and have to Zap off. Once those costs are on your balance sheet then you have a problem. That is a lot of debt, depreciation or lease costs to service. Without those costs, you can purchase some older and/or smaller buses, run a low-cost operation, and make money. If this is the case, then why are First not still running the X84 though to Skipton? |
|
|
|
Post by SCH117X on Mar 29, 2023 18:07:57 GMT 1
And why did a poster complain bitterly over an 18 year old Gemini (albeit reburished c 10 years ago) turning up on the X99 as that is precisely what she is asking for. Maybe they should transfer the sole remaining 2004 Gemini, 3607, back to Starbeck so the pair can run the X99 to the quality she wants
|
|
