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Post by stephen01 on Mar 3, 2023 13:31:46 GMT 1
if the Older Geminis & ALX400s could manage it on X6 i'm sure the e400s can. Don't know what you're on about, the Enviros are now top performers, but like with any batch of bus there will be some faster and slower. I drove them every day on the 49 when they were new with its original Euro 5 status and can say that now they are on par with how they used to be... some even better as ZF has been out and put the gearbox into "Express Mode". I posted in the Spotted: February 2023 thread that I took 33882 up Blackstone Edge from Littleborough to the White House the other night and it did 35 mph all the way up. I know the e400s are pretty fast as travelled on one on 72 before it moved to Bradford and was faster and smoother than a Gemini.
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Post by twansport on Mar 3, 2023 18:27:09 GMT 1
Councillors are starting to get feedback following emails to First
9 between Horsforth and White Rose withdrawn. 9A contract revised to cover White Rose to Seacroft. A journey in the morning will be registered (9S)
X11 new timetable with some journeys withdrawn
14 becomes hourly and only runs Leeds to Pudsey. PR2 will observe stops on Pontefract Lane
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Mar 3, 2023 18:36:01 GMT 1
Councillors are starting to get feedback following emails to First 9 between Horsforth and White Rose withdrawn. 9A contract revised to cover White Rose to Seacroft. A journey in the morning will be registered (9S) X11 new timetable with some journeys withdrawn 14 becomes hourly and only runs Leeds to Pudsey. PR2 will observe stops on Pontefract Lane Thatcher's Britain! (Quite literally). What do you mean by 9A revised to cover Seacroft to White Rose, as it already does? Attachments:
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Post by twansport on Mar 3, 2023 18:46:44 GMT 1
9A won’t run between Horsforth and White Rose. However they only talk about the evening contract.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Mar 3, 2023 19:18:12 GMT 1
9A won’t run between Horsforth and White Rose. However they only talk about the evening contract. Oh dear. Strange. In my experience 9's between White Rose Centre and Pudsey/ Horsforth have always had much better loadings than Squarepeg's equivalent on the other side of Leeds. What gives?
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Post by jonny182 on Mar 3, 2023 19:30:31 GMT 1
Councillors are starting to get feedback following emails to First 9 between Horsforth and White Rose withdrawn. 9A contract revised to cover White Rose to Seacroft. A journey in the morning will be registered (9S) X11 new timetable with some journeys withdrawn 14 becomes hourly and only runs Leeds to Pudsey. PR2 will observe stops on Pontefract Lane Thatcher's Britain! (Quite literally). What do you mean by 9A revised to cover Seacroft to White Rose, as it already does? It looks like First's 64 Aberford to Leeds will be curtailed at Cross Gates Arndale Ctr from 2nd April too now. Chopped in half like the 11A! At least it won't leave the villages entirely cut-off on evenings and Sundays but an inconvenient change of service. Probably does what the 11A now does with only one bus with a gap in the middle for changeover on Sundays.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Mar 4, 2023 9:47:07 GMT 1
Councillors are starting to get feedback following emails to First 9 between Horsforth and White Rose withdrawn. 9A contract revised to cover White Rose to Seacroft. A journey in the morning will be registered (9S) X11 new timetable with some journeys withdrawn 14 becomes hourly and only runs Leeds to Pudsey. PR2 will observe stops on Pontefract Lane So basically by the looks of things massive sections of the South Western end of the 9/9A (Beeston Ring Road, Wortley and Farnley Ring Road, parts of the Ring Road up to Horsforth) will be devoid of any bus services come April except for the small odds and sods bits like where the the 4/4F, 42, 51/2/5 etc serve. These are areas containing housing and employment sites with quite a walk to the nearest bus in parts, and in some cases meaning a dangerous road crossing. Many living or working in areas on or close to the 9 on this section use it as a significantly quicker alternative than changing in Leeds, Beeston Town Street to Pudsey is quicker using the 9 for example than going through Leeds. It would have been better for WYCA to cull the Squarepeg 9 and subsidise the South Western 9 instead, even if it just meant it only ran Monday to Saturday daytime. The PR2 replacing the 14 makes sense as it does nothing on the way to the P&R so may as well act as a bus to the Industrial Estates out that way. Won't cost much more time wise as the 14 doesn't really carry shed loads out that way except for a couple of peak journeys. Amazon hasn't been served in a long while thanks to the scroats on Halton Moor so I can't see it diverting there.
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Post by basher37 on Mar 4, 2023 12:04:39 GMT 1
Thatcher's Britain! (Quite literally). What do you mean by 9A revised to cover Seacroft to White Rose, as it already does? It looks like First's 64 Aberford to Leeds will be curtailed at Cross Gates Arndale Ctr from 2nd April too now. Chopped in half like the 11A! At least it won't leave the villages entirely cut-off on evenings and Sundays but an inconvenient change of service. Probably does what the 11A now does with only one bus with a gap in the middle for changeover on Sundays. 14 going hourly is a kick in the teeth for those who live on the Raynvilles,they’d be better just knocking it off all together cos car usage will rise again regardless how crap Leeds roads are.
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Post by edmundwells on Mar 4, 2023 12:05:49 GMT 1
Amazon hasn't been served in a long while thanks to the scroats on Halton Moor so I can't see it diverting there. Amazon is served by all the 14s. There was a period of about three weeks end of last year when we terminated at the petrol station but it's fine now. Some journeys pick upwards of a dozen people up there albeit coming from Farnell.
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Post by basher37 on Mar 4, 2023 12:07:59 GMT 1
Councillors are starting to get feedback following emails to First 9 between Horsforth and White Rose withdrawn. 9A contract revised to cover White Rose to Seacroft. A journey in the morning will be registered (9S) X11 new timetable with some journeys withdrawn 14 becomes hourly and only runs Leeds to Pudsey. PR2 will observe stops on Pontefract Lane So basically by the looks of things massive sections of the South Western end of the 9/9A (Beeston Ring Road, Wortley and Farnley Ring Road, parts of the Ring Road up to Horsforth) will be devoid of any bus services come April except for the small odds and sods bits like where the the 4/4F, 42, 51/2/5 etc serve. These are areas containing housing and employment sites with quite a walk to the nearest bus in parts, and in some cases meaning a dangerous road crossing. Many living or working in areas on or close to the 9 on this section use it as a significantly quicker alternative than changing in Leeds, Beeston Town Street to Pudsey is quicker using the 9 for example than going through Leeds. It would have been better for WYCA to cull the Squarepeg 9 and subsidise the South Western 9 instead, even if it just meant it only ran Monday to Saturday daytime. The PR2 replacing the 14 makes sense as it does nothing on the way to the P&R so may as well act as a bus to the Industrial Estates out that way. Won't cost much more time wise as the 14 doesn't really carry shed loads out that way except for a couple of peak journeys. Amazon hasn't been served in a long while thanks to the scroats on Halton Moor so I can't see it diverting there. 14 going hourly is a kick in the teeth for those who live on the Raynvilles,they’d be better just knocking it off all together cos car usage will rise again regardless how crap Leeds roads are.
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Post by kommie123 on Mar 5, 2023 12:28:11 GMT 1
I've heard a rumour from April that Arriva may be diverting one of their services to cover Thorpe Park (partly replacing X26). Makes sense to divert the 164.
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Post by peteleeds on Mar 5, 2023 15:24:25 GMT 1
Some of the timetables are now showing on metro website. 14 loses its evening service and x11 is a non clockface timetable
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Post by stevieinselby on Mar 5, 2023 18:59:34 GMT 1
x11 is a non clockface timetable Is this another one where First are using a random number generator to create the timetable? I don't know how they can think that a timetable with irregular and inconsistent headways, and irregular and inconsistent running times, is remotely customer-friendly or makes them look remotely competent, but every single route they run in York is like that now 🤷🏻♂️
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Post by rosscolley64 on Mar 5, 2023 19:10:03 GMT 1
Some of the timetables are now showing on metro website. 14 loses its evening service and x11 is a non clockface timetable I'm not sure whether to believe the new 14 timetable yet because it claims that the last trip from Leeds Mon-Fri is 1809 yet on a Saturday the final trip from Leeds is 2005 and the last one on a Sunday is 2055...
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Post by kommie123 on Mar 5, 2023 19:57:39 GMT 1
***Bus campaign success – replacement service to Thorpe Park close to being signed***
Last year we were all shocked at the sudden announcement by First Bus that the x26/x27 buses were being cancelled; cutting off Thorpe Park from Cross Gates, Colton and other centres. As your local councillors, we launched our ‘Save our Buses’ campaign, which gathered huge support in the community - over 1000 people have signed our petition.
Throughout the campaign we worked closely with the Springs management team and West Yorkshire Combined Authority to look at how to bring back services to the area.
We are pleased to announce that we are now close to reaching an agreement with Arriva that will see a return of bus services that connect our centres to Thorpe Park.
Although we cannot give full details of the agreement, we have been assured that:
‘a service has been identified that connects Thorpe Park to the nearby communities as well as those along the route into the city centre’.
We were stunned earlier in the week to learn that First Bus have announced further cuts to services in our area…so our campaign will continue…
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Post by jonny182 on Mar 5, 2023 21:23:38 GMT 1
***Bus campaign success – replacement service to Thorpe Park close to being signed*** Last year we were all shocked at the sudden announcement by First Bus that the x26/x27 buses were being cancelled; cutting off Thorpe Park from Cross Gates, Colton and other centres. As your local councillors, we launched our ‘Save our Buses’ campaign, which gathered huge support in the community - over 1000 people have signed our petition. Throughout the campaign we worked closely with the Springs management team and West Yorkshire Combined Authority to look at how to bring back services to the area. We are pleased to announce that we are now close to reaching an agreement with Arriva that will see a return of bus services that connect our centres to Thorpe Park. Although we cannot give full details of the agreement, we have been assured that: ‘a service has been identified that connects Thorpe Park to the nearby communities as well as those along the route into the city centre’. We were stunned earlier in the week to learn that First Bus have announced further cuts to services in our area…so our campaign will continue… This is excellent news and all the hard work and campaigning, letter writing to WYCA and the Springs is close to paying off. It is terrible that there will be more cuts by First to the 64 and what was done to the 11A earlier last year was shockingly bad. This may explain why I have seen Arriva personnel and vehicles and going along Manston Lane and the area around lately. Hopefully the new route will route around Manston Lane like the X27, William Parkin Way, Thorpe Park App, Park App, Century Way and back to Colton Rbt / Selby Rd to Castleford. It avoids the massive congestion delays issues on the Ring Road Halton Cross Gates to Whitkirk Roundabout that current 163/164 services suffer from at peak times. Hopefully we will get the full service times every day from 0530 through to midnight like when the X27/X26's first started in 2018. It will be good for Arriva to compete against First through Cross Gates, Austhorpe Rd and via York Rd. The 40 and 56 are terribly unpunctual and the 40 frequncy is hourly evenings....if it ever turns up!
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Post by basher37 on Mar 5, 2023 21:25:40 GMT 1
Some of the timetables are now showing on metro website. 14 loses its evening service and x11 is a non clockface timetable I'm not sure whether to believe the new 14 timetable yet because it claims that the last trip from Leeds Mon-Fri is 1809 yet on a Saturday the final trip from Leeds is 2005 and the last one on a Sunday is 2055... Where’s these TT,I can’t see owt so can you post a link please?
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Post by peteleeds on Mar 5, 2023 22:28:57 GMT 1
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Post by twansport on Mar 5, 2023 23:09:58 GMT 1
I am not 100% about those timetables. X11 First two buses gone going into Leeds but still running those back
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Post by basher37 on Mar 5, 2023 23:10:29 GMT 1
Cheers,that makes the 14 a absolute useless service now especially the first to town on a Saturday,they be better off scrapping it.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Mar 5, 2023 23:30:42 GMT 1
x11 is a non clockface timetable Is this another one where First are using a random number generator to create the timetable? I don't know how they can think that a timetable with irregular and inconsistent headways, and irregular and inconsistent running times, is remotely customer-friendly or makes them look remotely competent, but every single route they run in York is like that now 🤷🏻♂️ Are First timetables now computer generated with no human input Looking at that X11 one, the frequency seems to be about ‘every 32 minutes’ Is the suggestion that everyone just looks on the apps/real time now to see when the next bus is, so the actual timetable is irrelevant?
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Mar 6, 2023 9:57:51 GMT 1
Is this another one where First are using a random number generator to create the timetable? I don't know how they can think that a timetable with irregular and inconsistent headways, and irregular and inconsistent running times, is remotely customer-friendly or makes them look remotely competent, but every single route they run in York is like that now 🤷🏻♂️ Are First timetables now computer generated with no human input Looking at that X11 one, the frequency seems to be about ‘every 32 minutes’ Is the suggestion that everyone just looks on the apps/real time now to see when the next bus is, so the actual timetable is irrelevant? The latest innovations from a couple of scheduling software suppliers include plugging all the tracking data that is now available into automated scheduling packages to produce timetables reflecting accurate real running times - I think I did see First signing a deal with one of these suppliers a few months ago so they may be actually using this. On paper this seems a good thing as it would appear to offer a more accurate and so reliable timetable that can be prepared in much less time than manual intervention but as is being pointed out if it is relied on without any intervention you get these anomalies with irregular frequencies though if it is cycling at just over 30-mins like this it sounds like you need an extra frequency or a lower frequency to get consistency (or interworking with another route with some slack). Timetable design is a complicated process and whilst these systems do seem to offer advantages in speed of turning round initial proposals clearly they could do with some manual reviewing to ensure what comes out is passenger friendly.
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Post by stevieinselby on Mar 6, 2023 11:38:36 GMT 1
The latest innovations from a couple of scheduling software suppliers include plugging all the tracking data that is now available into automated scheduling packages to produce timetables reflecting accurate real running times - I think I did see First signing a deal with one of these suppliers a few months ago so they may be actually using this. On paper this seems a good thing as it would appear to offer a more accurate and so reliable timetable that can be prepared in much less time than manual intervention but as is being pointed out if it is relied on without any intervention you get these anomalies with irregular frequencies though if it is cycling at just over 30-mins like this it sounds like you need an extra frequency or a lower frequency to get consistency (or interworking with another route with some slack). Timetable design is a complicated process and whilst these systems do seem to offer advantages in speed of turning round initial proposals clearly they could do with some manual reviewing to ensure what comes out is passenger friendly. This is the current timetable for the First York 5/5A. Does anyone really think that the traffic in York is so predictable that one journey will be 51 minutes and half an hour later it will be 53 minutes? It's absolute garbage!
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jst
Forum Member
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Post by jst on Mar 6, 2023 12:54:10 GMT 1
***Bus campaign success – replacement service to Thorpe Park close to being signed*** Last year we were all shocked at the sudden announcement by First Bus that the x26/x27 buses were being cancelled; cutting off Thorpe Park from Cross Gates, Colton and other centres. As your local councillors, we launched our ‘Save our Buses’ campaign, which gathered huge support in the community - over 1000 people have signed our petition. Throughout the campaign we worked closely with the Springs management team and West Yorkshire Combined Authority to look at how to bring back services to the area. We are pleased to announce that we are now close to reaching an agreement with Arriva that will see a return of bus services that connect our centres to Thorpe Park. Although we cannot give full details of the agreement, we have been assured that: ‘a service has been identified that connects Thorpe Park to the nearby communities as well as those along the route into the city centre’. We were stunned earlier in the week to learn that First Bus have announced further cuts to services in our area…so our campaign will continue… The Garforth councillors are still trying to get the buses back on Fairburn Drive in Garforth and apparently this could only happen if they won the Thorpe Park work - I suspect what will happen is the 164 will change to run via Thorpe Park and then in Garforth will turn on the loop at Fairburn Drive (as the X26 briefly did), with those services to Selby then running to Micklefield as the 175 route, the extension to East Garforth Station on the 164 has done very little.
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Mar 6, 2023 19:43:07 GMT 1
Are First timetables now computer generated with no human input Looking at that X11 one, the frequency seems to be about ‘every 32 minutes’ Is the suggestion that everyone just looks on the apps/real time now to see when the next bus is, so the actual timetable is irrelevant? The latest innovations from a couple of scheduling software suppliers include plugging all the tracking data that is now available into automated scheduling packages to produce timetables reflecting accurate real running times - I think I did see First signing a deal with one of these suppliers a few months ago so they may be actually using this. On paper this seems a good thing as it would appear to offer a more accurate and so reliable timetable that can be prepared in much less time than manual intervention but as is being pointed out if it is relied on without any intervention you get these anomalies with irregular frequencies though if it is cycling at just over 30-mins like this it sounds like you need an extra frequency or a lower frequency to get consistency (or interworking with another route with some slack). Timetable design is a complicated process and whilst these systems do seem to offer advantages in speed of turning round initial proposals clearly they could do with some manual reviewing to ensure what comes out is passenger friendly. Don't get me started on this. The system is called OptiBus. Learns from data from the bus on each data on how long it takes to get from timing point to timing point. It then makes an average amount of time that it will probably take hence the absolute mess of some of the operators timetables, particularly not the "2nd" one. No idea how any decent scheduler would be happy with what they are producing at the moment. Like leaving start points at random odd minutes, NO need. As stated above, running time is differing from trip to trip. In the traditional way, you would have 4 "time sets" e.g. Super Fast - very early and very last buses, Fast - Evenings & Sundays, Standard - Mon to Sat Daytime & Peak - AM & PM rush hours (if necessary). Start, Bus Stations along route & Terminus should be xxx0 or xxx5 Timing Points should be xxx0, xxx2, xxx5, xxx7 Nothing should ever be xxx1, xxx4, xxx9
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