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Post by michael1971 on Mar 1, 2023 11:26:40 GMT 1
It seems as though we are going to see another round of bus cuts made by Firstbus from April 3rd. 6 routes in Leeds (9/9A etc) are mentioned in the 'West Leeds Dispatch' and the changes to the Colne Valley (181-185) are also listed. Other routes will have frequency reductions with hints of further cuts to be made in other parts of West Yorks. Of particular interest to me is the mention of the 508 - predict it will reduce to hourly daytime and / or evening services withdrawn. i think 185 service is replacing 183 up towards Linthwaite church and 184 going straight on Manchester road as it does now
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Post by peteleeds on Mar 1, 2023 11:46:15 GMT 1
Below is the full list from west leeds despatch website
"Possible changes in full, according to the leaked plans Services which could be withdrawn:
9 – White Rose Centre-Pudsey-Farsley-Horsforth
9A – Seacroft-Colton-Swillington-Rothwell-Middleton-White Rose Centre-Pudsey-Farsley-Horsforth
47 – Leeds-Hunslet-Middleton-Morley-White Rose Centre
48 – Wigton Moor-Moortown-Chapeltown-Leeds-Hunslet-Middleton-Morley-White Rose Centre
64 – Leeds-Cross Gates-Barwick-in-Elmet-Aberford
87 – St James’ Hospital-East End Park-Hunslet-Holbeck-Armley-Bramley
Services which could have their frequency cut:
14 – Pudsey-Armley-Leeds-Logic Business Park
X11 – Leeds-Armley-Pudsey
508 – Halifax-Shelf-Thornbury-Leeds
181 – Huddersfield-Cowlersley-Slaithwaite-Wilberlee
183 – Huddersfield-Cowlersley-Slaithwaite-Wilberlee-Marsden
184 – Huddersfield-Cowlersley-Slaithwaite-Wilberlee-Marsden-Lees-Oldham
185 – Huddersfield-Cowlersley-Slaithwaite-Wilberlee-Marsden"
The 64 is only evening and sundays as mon to sat daytime service provided by connexionsbuses. But if the first journeys are withdrawn this will leaves some villages with no evening and sunday buses
The 9 surprises me as always seems well loaded when i see it in pudsey.
47/48 are operated on behalf of wyca i believe so this could be linked to tender renewal. maybe another company has won the tender
X11 is well loaded at commuter times but not so much rest of day so i wonder if the pudsey to leeds extension may revert to peak times only
14 is well loaded most of day but evening services between bramley & pudsey after 7pm sometimes im only one on the bus
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Post by rosscolley64 on Mar 1, 2023 12:42:35 GMT 1
I think cutting any of these routes is particularly risky, especially considering how busy some of them get; the 47/48 tend to be very busy especially at peak times; they are the only routes serving parts of Middleton & Belle Isle, plus the 48 is of course the only route into Wigton Moor itself I believe.
The 9 is always quite busy and at peak times it can be full mainly due to the amount of people working at White Rose Centre travelling to and from the site. The 9A is also the only evening and Sunday service linking a lot of the areas around south east Leeds especially when Squarepeg don't cover the service.
The 14 tends to be particularly busy across the whole route although there are several cases of journeys being cut to finish at Bramley with the bus then going to the depot and staying there for a few hours - this may be due to driver shortages, but also there are cases where a trip is meant to finish in Pudsey at 7-8 PM before going to the depot, however instead these will just finish in Bramley on occasion. Cutting the X11 makes no sense however it may be operational - the last full route to Leeds from Bradford on a Saturday is around 1530-1600 (all trips are Pudsey shorts after), and the route goes no further than Pudsey all day Sunday. It would make no sense to cut it any more, although perhaps it could be altered to terminate in Swinnow from Bradford (or Bramley Town End) - the section between Bramley and Leeds is covered by the 72.
It may be worth noting that the six routes up for withdrawal altogether are the types of routes that the new Wright electrics for Leeds are meant to be running on when they arrive; I think it has been stated elsewhere that they were for the less frequent routes?
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Post by twansport on Mar 1, 2023 18:30:41 GMT 1
Some of the frequency cuts will probably help with reducing the boards required. Halving the 14 will probably save 2 boards and cutting the X11 to hourly Leeds to Pudsey will probably save a board and might mitigate the creeping timetable caused by the runs taking a little longer than an hour
Another option for the 14 is that they cut Bramley to Pudsey, which saves a board. The end to end is covered by the 91 and the only part lost is a bus from Bramley-Swinnow
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Post by WYBS on Mar 1, 2023 18:55:21 GMT 1
Some of the frequency cuts will probably help with reducing the boards required. Halving the 14 will probably save 2 boards and cutting the X11 to hourly Leeds to Pudsey will probably save a board and might mitigate the creeping timetable caused by the runs taking a little longer than an hour Another option for the 14 is that they cut Bramley to Pudsey, which saves a board. The end to end is covered by the 91 and the only part lost is a bus from Bramley-Swinnow And if they carry on, then they'll be able to get rid of all the boards, which will save a lot of effort on their end! Over the next few years it's going to be very interesting to see more and more passengers shift to car usage, on roads that are now being transformed to become active travel-focussed and to reduce car priority. I sense a real storm brewing.
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Post by Username on Mar 1, 2023 20:54:49 GMT 1
I think cutting any of these routes is particularly risky, especially considering how busy some of them get; the 47/48 tend to be very busy especially at peak times; they are the only routes serving parts of Middleton & Belle Isle, plus the 48 is of course the only route into Wigton Moor itself I believe. Pretty sure Arriva could just re route one of their routes to cover for the the 47/48.
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Post by driver6540 on Mar 1, 2023 22:17:47 GMT 1
Below is the full list from west leeds despatch website "Possible changes in full, according to the leaked plans Services which could be withdrawn: 9 – White Rose Centre-Pudsey-Farsley-Horsforth 9A – Seacroft-Colton-Swillington-Rothwell-Middleton-White Rose Centre-Pudsey-Farsley-Horsforth 47 – Leeds-Hunslet-Middleton-Morley-White Rose Centre 48 – Wigton Moor-Moortown-Chapeltown-Leeds-Hunslet-Middleton-Morley-White Rose Centre 64 – Leeds-Cross Gates-Barwick-in-Elmet-Aberford 87 – St James’ Hospital-East End Park-Hunslet-Holbeck-Armley-Bramley Services which could have their frequency cut: 14 – Pudsey-Armley-Leeds-Logic Business Park X11 – Leeds-Armley-Pudsey 508 – Halifax-Shelf-Thornbury-Leeds 181 – Huddersfield-Cowlersley-Slaithwaite-Wilberlee 183 – Huddersfield-Cowlersley-Slaithwaite-Wilberlee-Marsden 184 – Huddersfield-Cowlersley-Slaithwaite-Wilberlee-Marsden-Lees-Oldham 185 – Huddersfield-Cowlersley-Slaithwaite-Wilberlee-Marsden" The 64 is only evening and sundays as mon to sat daytime service provided by connexionsbuses. But if the first journeys are withdrawn this will leaves some villages with no evening and sunday buses The 9 surprises me as always seems well loaded when i see it in pudsey. 47/48 are operated on behalf of wyca i believe so this could be linked to tender renewal. maybe another company has won the tender X11 is well loaded at commuter times but not so much rest of day so i wonder if the pudsey to leeds extension may revert to peak times only 14 is well loaded most of day but evening services between bramley & pudsey after 7pm sometimes im only one on the bus Sorry to sound pedantic, but the 183/184 and 185 don't serve Wilberlee. Only the 181 does.
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Post by andy1 on Mar 1, 2023 23:15:38 GMT 1
New route for 508 , cant disclose yet but commences April 2nd , and yes it is reduced to an hourly service.
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Post by mattb7tl on Mar 1, 2023 23:22:20 GMT 1
New route for 508 , cant disclose yet but commences April 2nd , and yes it is reduced to an hourly service. An hourly service between a major town and major city… Gonna have no buses left at this rate
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Post by WYBS on Mar 1, 2023 23:54:54 GMT 1
New route for 508 , cant disclose yet but commences April 2nd , and yes it is reduced to an hourly service. An hourly service between a major town and major city… Gonna have no buses left at this rate And I have absolutely no doubt the new route will totally avoid Farsley, Leeds and Bradford Road and Kirskstall Road; which is fantastic for both myself and also the people who rely on it in those areas!
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Post by joseph on Mar 2, 2023 6:29:31 GMT 1
New route for 508 , cant disclose yet but commences April 2nd , and yes it is reduced to an hourly service. Am I right in thinking with it reducing to hourly the route will be longer? Now I know you can't disclose the new route but are you allowed to say I'm right in thinking it'll extend east? The 14 defo does not need a half hourly frequency to Cross Green except for a bit during the peak period so my thinking is the 508 will extend to Amazon in place of the 14 and the reduced frequency will mean this can be done with no extra resources with the 14 covering the Leeds to Amazon bit only as those peak extras?
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Post by stevieinselby on Mar 2, 2023 8:57:03 GMT 1
New route for 508 , cant disclose yet but commences April 2nd , and yes it is reduced to an hourly service. An hourly service between a major town and major city… Gonna have no buses left at this rate How many people use the 508 to get from Halifax to Leeds? I reckon you could count them on the fingers of one foot. If they are that desperate for a direct bus service, despite it taking 3 times as long as the train, they can still use the 255. It won't take them a lot longer to use the 576 to Bradford and then the X6 to Leeds, although the latter does suffer from First's recent policy of using a random number generator to create the timetables meaning that there are no two journeys through the day that have consistent clockface intervals between them. Routes like the 508 aren't used for end-to-end journeys, they are used for people travelling to/from intermediate points and it just happens to be more operationally convenient to link them to major destinations at either end of the route than have separate overlapping routes, one to Halifax and one to Leeds.
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Post by 77syk7 on Mar 2, 2023 11:10:14 GMT 1
I agree not many passengers travel from end to end on the 508, the excessive journey time caused by congestion does not make it an attractive option. However, there always were a few passengers who live in Shelf / Northowram who did reliably commute into Leeds for work / education. I cannot see the route being extended east as this would make the route longer and therefore even less reliable. They did try extending it in the other direction as far as Rishworth after deregulation in 1986 and this did not work. I have commented many times on this forum about the 508 as it is my local route into Halifax or Leeds. I can see why the frequency is being reduced to hourly, but think it may have to be half hourly in the peaks to cope with demand. I estimate that 3 buses off-peak could just about do a round trip, but think a 4th would be needed during rush hour. I hope the evening service remains, as this would mean we would only have the 682 every hour running into Halifax. It seems as though my evening time explorations are under threat - unless like one member of the forum suggests that all people of my age have a pass which prevents them from travelling anywhere after 6pm (maybe 7pm in Summer) !
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2023 14:28:33 GMT 1
If X11 is being reduced i wouldn't be surprised if that went down to Hourly & 508 gets rerouted via Pudsey & Swinnow keeping the current 30Min Frequency between Thornbury & Leeds (wouldn't be the most odd route change First have ever done)
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Post by mattb7tl on Mar 2, 2023 14:42:13 GMT 1
It takes a painfully long time to get from start to finish. Doesn’t help with small changes from the past few years like not running to and from the bus station in Leeds… If the new bus route skips all of the neighbourhoods in Leeds, and goes directly along the bypass, that’s something people have requested for years on end. They always seem to make changes once a bus route is on the verge of death, instead of decline.
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Post by twy7 on Mar 2, 2023 17:42:17 GMT 1
I have copy here what is on facebook about first bus service 47 and 48
Dear Cllr Foster
I trust you are well.
Yes, we are aware of the reports in the local media. As you know we have continued to review performance across our network with WY Combined Authority - as has been a requirement of transitional government funding arrangements. New passenger behaviours and travel habits since the pandemic have meant that like many businesses, we have seen changes to demand for bus services.
Whilst we have welcomed the UK Government’s recent announcement of an extension to the Bus Recovery Grant funding to help maintain a number of services across England for another three months, there are a very small number of services showing no sign of being able to generate sufficient passengers to cover their costs - which we plan to review in April. In addition there are some contracts that we run on behalf of WY Combined Authority that are expiring, also in April.
We are therefore registering some route changes that will commence from April 2 with a registration deadline of this Friday 3 March and hence planned for full communication early next week.
I appreciate the information in the media will generate queries and in advance of providing full details, I can confirm that service 48 will be withdrawn due to insufficient demand, the 48A will be renumbered 47A and we will be introducing timetable & route changes to service 47.
Please be assured we will provide full details shortly.
I would like to add that I have copied colleagues including our new Commercial Director for First North & West Yorkshire, Kayleigh Ingham.
For full visibility, I have also copied Ardsley and Robin Hood ward colleagues, and relevant council transport representatives.
Kind Regards
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Post by steve440 on Mar 2, 2023 18:27:38 GMT 1
If X11 is being reduced i wouldn't be surprised if that went down to Hourly & 508 gets rerouted via Pudsey & Swinnow keeping the current 30Min Frequency between Thornbury & Leeds (wouldn't be the most odd route change First have ever done) When I worked out of Bramley from 1989, the X6 used to operate via Swinnow and Pudsey to Bradford and then on to Huddersfield. The journey time from Leeds to Bradford via Pudsey was 35 minutes!
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Mar 2, 2023 18:48:50 GMT 1
In North Leeds the entire purpose of the 48 is to serve Wigton Moor, the rest of the route is paralleled by the frequent 2, 3, 3a & 36. I also wonder how many people from Wigton Moor actually use the bus.
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Post by joseph on Mar 2, 2023 20:30:17 GMT 1
In North Leeds the entire purpose of the 48 is to serve Wigton Moor, the rest of the route is paralleled by the frequent 2, 3, 3a & 36. I also wonder how many people from Wigton Moor actually use the bus. AM Peak it's fairly well used up to Alwoodley Gates from Leeds, especially on school days, but PM peak it seems underused by the time it gets to Alwoodley Gates heading towards Wigton Moor. PM peak heading to Leeds from the Alwoodley area it is well used, again especially on school days, however only carries odds and sods from Wigton Moor to the A61. Loadings during the daytime are mixed from the Wigton Moor area from general observations at Alwoodley, for example one day I got one from there to Leeds around 10am that had at least one person occupying each row and on another day around lunch time I saw a lady waiting specifically for a 48 at Primley Park garage heading to Wigton Moor and when the bus arrived it looked half full. I work between Alwoodley and Harewood on an ad hoc basis all year round so have used it many times even under it's historical self before the shortened version came along. Wigton Moor does need some kind of bus service as it's quite far away from the 36 and 7S in parts with average housing in the estate itself, however perhaps this is one location where the DRT pilot should have been used?
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andy1
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Post by andy1 on Mar 2, 2023 21:40:54 GMT 1
It takes a painfully long time to get from start to finish. Doesn’t help with small changes from the past few years like not running to and from the bus station in Leeds… If the new bus route skips all of the neighbourhoods in Leeds, and goes directly along the bypass, that’s something people have requested for years on end. They always seem to make changes once a bus route is on the verge of death, instead of decline. Forgot to mention also operating back to Leeds City Bus Station . To hell with it customers have a right to know ! From April 2nd 508 will operate via Stanningley bypass the exact same route as the X6 into and out of LEEDS. Provision for the Farsley/Intake/Bradford Road area will be a re routed 86 i am led to believe .
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Post by stephen01 on Mar 2, 2023 22:37:57 GMT 1
In North Leeds the entire purpose of the 48 is to serve Wigton Moor, the rest of the route is paralleled by the frequent 2, 3, 3a & 36. I also wonder how many people from Wigton Moor actually use the bus. Exactly. They shot themselves in the foot re-extending it back to Morley. The whole idea of the 46 was for it to cover the Leeds to Morley section of 48 but given 46 suffered most with the pandemic the logical thing to have done would have been increase frequency of 47.
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Post by mattb7tl on Mar 2, 2023 22:43:35 GMT 1
It takes a painfully long time to get from start to finish. Doesn’t help with small changes from the past few years like not running to and from the bus station in Leeds… If the new bus route skips all of the neighbourhoods in Leeds, and goes directly along the bypass, that’s something people have requested for years on end. They always seem to make changes once a bus route is on the verge of death, instead of decline. Forgot to mention also operating back to Leeds City Bus Station . To hell with it customers have a right to know ! From April 2nd 508 will operate via Stanningley bypass the exact same route as the X6 into and out of LEEDS. Provision for the Farsley/Intake/Bradford Road area will be a re routed 86 i am led to believe . A lovely improvement, those enviros are gonna be laughable on the bypass I hope first manages to promote these changes or maybe even change the route number? The X5? With this being a much requested change hopefully it can regain passengers and at least get boosted to the existing frequency some point within the future.
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Post by stephen01 on Mar 2, 2023 22:53:03 GMT 1
Forgot to mention also operating back to Leeds City Bus Station . To hell with it customers have a right to know ! From April 2nd 508 will operate via Stanningley bypass the exact same route as the X6 into and out of LEEDS. Provision for the Farsley/Intake/Bradford Road area will be a re routed 86 i am led to believe . A lovely improvement, those enviros are gonna be laughable on the bypass I hope first manages to promote these changes or maybe even change the route number? The X5? With this being a much requested change hopefully it can regain passengers and at least get boosted to the existing frequency some point within the future. if the Older Geminis & ALX400s could manage it on X6 i'm sure the e400s can.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Mar 3, 2023 7:04:37 GMT 1
It takes a painfully long time to get from start to finish. Doesn’t help with small changes from the past few years like not running to and from the bus station in Leeds… If the new bus route skips all of the neighbourhoods in Leeds, and goes directly along the bypass, that’s something people have requested for years on end. They always seem to make changes once a bus route is on the verge of death, instead of decline. Forgot to mention also operating back to Leeds City Bus Station . To hell with it customers have a right to know ! From April 2nd 508 will operate via Stanningley bypass the exact same route as the X6 into and out of LEEDS. Provision for the Farsley/Intake/Bradford Road area will be a re routed 86 i am led to believe . That makes sense with the trains being so unreliable, expensive for a local Halifax to Leeds return journey unless it's an advanced offer type ticket, and quite crowded. They just need to make sure of 2 things, firstly that it works out significantly quicker than the current route to make it more appealing, and secondly it's well advertised using all social media channels, not just a mention or 2 in a local rag nobody reads, otherwise it'll just be a pointless exercise missing out half it's custom whilst the remainder enjoy a quicker journey for a few months before it's withdrawal.
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Mar 3, 2023 12:50:51 GMT 1
A lovely improvement, those enviros are gonna be laughable on the bypass I hope first manages to promote these changes or maybe even change the route number? The X5? With this being a much requested change hopefully it can regain passengers and at least get boosted to the existing frequency some point within the future. if the Older Geminis & ALX400s could manage it on X6 i'm sure the e400s can. Don't know what you're on about, the Enviros are now top performers, but like with any batch of bus there will be some faster and slower. I drove them every day on the 49 when they were new with its original Euro 5 status and can say that now they are on par with how they used to be... some even better as ZF has been out and put the gearbox into "Express Mode". I posted in the Spotted: February 2023 thread that I took 33882 up Blackstone Edge from Littleborough to the White House the other night and it did 35 mph all the way up.
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