pricel
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Post by pricel on Mar 23, 2024 15:42:01 GMT 1
Here's some changes I would introduce to the Halifax area, which I believe will make experiences better for passengers. 20 Halifax to Rye Lane I would renumber this service 514 to align with the Mixenden Corridor of services and coordinate the timetable with 511 and 512 to form an every 15 minute service along Pellon Lane. 21 Halifax to Highroadwell I would renumber this service 540 to tie in with services 541, 542 and 546 in the Highroadwell area with an introduction of an every 30 minute frequency throughout the day. Journeys will be timed 15 minutes apart from 514 (20) to provide an every 15 minute combined frequency for the Upper Pellon area. A Sunday daytime service will also be introduced to run hourly, giving passengers the opportunity to travel to ASDA supermarket which doesn't seem to have a bus service during Sundays. 22 Halifax to Claremount I would renumber this service 575 and introduce a new route to the service. Rather than being Halifax to Claremount via Boothtown, the service can be Halifax to Boothtown via Claremount to allow passengers on Claremount Road to have a quicker service. In replacement for the loss of 2 buses per hour along Boothtown Road, I would allow increase the frequency of service 576 to every 10 minutes Monday to Saturday Daytime and every 20 minutes during Sundays and evenings. 508 Halifax to Leeds via Shelf & Thornbury I would reroute the service through Northowram village on the 681/2 route and introduce half hourly service to the route to combine with service 681 to form an every 15 minute service between Halifax and Odsal Top. 509/510/511/512/513 Mixenden Circulars The set up of the Mixenden circulars has been made too complicated for customers, with passengers still being unsure today of which buses go where to this day! So to simplify the service, I would withdraw services 509 and 513 leaving services 510, 511 and 512 to continue. Service 510 will be introduced to run between Halifax and Mixenden only replacing service 509 also in the direction to Halifax. Services on 510 will run half-hourly Monday to Saturday daytime extending to Hambleton Drive between the hours of 0600 and 1800 (to avoid vandalism). During the evenings, the 510 will terminate where it currently does at Mixenden Clough Lane. Service 513 will be replaced by a reorganised 511 and 512 route and timetable. Service 511 and 512 will be rerouted to run through Wainstalls as it has a bigger catchment than Moor End Road, considering how I have not once seen anyone use those bus stops. Departures from Halifax will be coordinated to leave 15 minutes apart from each other on 511 and 513 with the bus service also being designed to run every 15 minutes along Pellon Lane combined with service 514 (20). 530 Halifax to Fountainhead This service will be re-routed via Hopwood Lane, Gibraltar Road and Spring Hall Lane in replacement of service 514, withdrawn in 2022 and parts of service 541. An additional hourly Sunday daytime service will also be introduced to replace 541 and also provide a Sunday service for Fountainhead Village. This re-routing I of the service I believe will benefit the service as it allows Hopwood Lane to regain it's daytime service whilst also providing more easier shopping links from Fountainhead to ASDA. This was the route the bus service used to follow as service 23 which was liked by locals but for some reason in 2020 they decided to re-route it along Pellon Lane attracting less passengers. This service would also be renumbered to 515. 532 Halifax to Scar Bottom Circular This service will be withdrawn and replaced by the new circular services 558 and 559 (numbering similar to 555 (543), 561, 562 and 563) which serve similar areas. A new route will be introduced avoiding Gibbet Street, Spring Hall Lane and Warley Road. The new proposed routes will be designed to serve Blackwall (rear of Bull Green), King Cross Tesco and Calderdale Royal Hospital improving shopping links for the Scar Bottom, Savile Park and King Cross area to Calderdale Royal Hospital as well as being a handy shopping link as the service will serve Tesco and King Cross centre in both directions. A proposal of the route shown: 534 Halifax to Northowram Circular I would renumber this service to 507 as there are similar areas served to service 508. 541/2 Halifax to Norton Tower I would introduced a combined frequency of every 15 minute service with 541 being introduced to run every 30 minutes through the daytime. This service out of Halifax will also now follow the 532 route to Queens Road, then continue along the normal route to Norton Tower Turning Circle. Service 542 will be re-routed via Paddock Lane and Vicar Park Road in Norton Tower to serve the new proposed West End Housing Estate which is due to be built soon. Additional evening services until 2200 will run half-hourly combined to restore the lost Norton Tower and Highroad well evening service. 543 Halifax to Siddal This service will be renumbered to 555, as it doesn't run anywhere similar to any of the 54x routes in Calderdale. An additional hourly evening service will also be introduced until 2300 Monday to Saturday.
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Post by shelf81 on Mar 23, 2024 16:56:07 GMT 1
There's little point trying to combine the 681/2 & 508. I've lived near Shelf for almost 20 years & First have tried numerous times to make the 508/681 combine. It works fairly ok from the Halifax direction but the 508 has always been too unpredictable coming from Leeds for it to work towards Halifax, going off previous attempts within 6-12 months another timetable change will happen & for reliability reasons they drop trying to go for an even headway until the next attempt.
Having looked through previous posts from this thread I would agree with the option for an improved 681 even if it risked the 508s future.
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mattb7tl
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Post by mattb7tl on Mar 24, 2024 0:06:21 GMT 1
Cut the 508, divert the subsidy money it receives into the 255. I believe the 255 is already on the radar for improvements with franchising. The 508 is clinging onto life and is no longer a good use of funding. Increase the 681/2 to a 'core' 15 minute frequency, ideally with a 30 minute off peak frequency. It has a literal guideway, healthy loadings and yet it runs at an embarrassing frequency from my view.
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Post by shelf81 on Mar 24, 2024 0:46:18 GMT 1
Cut the 508, divert the subsidy money it receives into the 255. I believe the 255 is already on the radar for improvements with franchising. The 508 is clinging onto life and is no longer a good use of funding. Increase the 681/2 to a 'core' 15 minute frequency, ideally with a 30 minute off peak frequency. It has a literal guideway, healthy loadings and yet it runs at an embarrassing frequency from my view. I Agree with this, increase the 681 to a 15 Mins Frequency although it is already 30 Minute off-peak. Possibly as more housing gets built around Northowram & Shelf go for S106 funding for further increases with an aim to get it to a 10Min frequency last seen on that corridor probably in the early 2000s. The guideway is still due to be replaced I believe with a normal bus lane, what should actually help journey times even more as well. If the 508 got withdrawn I would look at extending the 630 to Thornbury so no area is left fully without a service, it could just about be squeezed in using current resources so the cost would be minimal.
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Mar 24, 2024 9:45:18 GMT 1
Cut the 508, divert the subsidy money it receives into the 255. I believe the 255 is already on the radar for improvements with franchising. The 508 is clinging onto life and is no longer a good use of funding. Increase the 681/2 to a 'core' 15 minute frequency, ideally with a 30 minute off peak frequency. It has a literal guideway, healthy loadings and yet it runs at an embarrassing frequency from my view. I think it would be good to keep the 508 as it is regularly used between Northowram and Leeds, I have been on quite a lot of full buses and the new route seems to have given the service better loadings from places like Rooley Lane and Odsal Top. I would have the 508 just run as an alternative service to 681 just like how 537 follows the X1 route in the background.
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Post by shelf81 on Mar 24, 2024 14:31:44 GMT 1
Cut the 508, divert the subsidy money it receives into the 255. I believe the 255 is already on the radar for improvements with franchising. The 508 is clinging onto life and is no longer a good use of funding. Increase the 681/2 to a 'core' 15 minute frequency, ideally with a 30 minute off peak frequency. It has a literal guideway, healthy loadings and yet it runs at an embarrassing frequency from my view. I think it would be good to keep the 508 as it is regularly used between Northowram and Leeds, I have been on quite a lot of full buses and the new route seems to have given the service better loadings from places like Rooley Lane and Odsal Top. I would have the 508 just run as an alternative service to 681 just like how 537 follows the X1 route in the background. I'd actually say the opposite outside of a few peak time journeys regarding the loadings. It leaves Halifax with fairly ok loads but the majority are going to places the 681 also serves, after Odsal Top offpeak it normally only carries 20-25 people max. apart from a maybe a couple of Saturday trips until around Culter Heights area then starts to pick up again, especially at Thornbury if the X6s have gaps thanks to frequency cuts mixed with traffic delays. An improved 681,X6 & some adapting to the Bradford network would bring more overall benefits than keeping the 508. From whenever I've spoke to people around the Shelf area most seem to be in agreement that the Leeds link is a 'nice to have' but the majority would rather like to see an improved 681, although First are not 100% to blame the 508s gained a bad reputation over the years due to bad timekeeping mostly down to traffic & long journey times during the years it was routed via Farsley alongside a mix of other reasons.
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Mar 24, 2024 19:24:19 GMT 1
I think it would be good to keep the 508 as it is regularly used between Northowram and Leeds, I have been on quite a lot of full buses and the new route seems to have given the service better loadings from places like Rooley Lane and Odsal Top. I would have the 508 just run as an alternative service to 681 just like how 537 follows the X1 route in the background. I'd actually say the opposite outside of a few peak time journeys regarding the loadings. It leaves Halifax with fairly ok loads but the majority are going to places the 681 also serves, after Odsal Top offpeak it normally only carries 20-25 people max. apart from a maybe a couple of Saturday trips until around Culter Heights area then starts to pick up again, especially at Thornbury if the X6s have gaps thanks to frequency cuts mixed with traffic delays. An improved 681,X6 & some adapting to the Bradford network would bring more overall benefits than keeping the 508. From whenever I've spoke to people around the Shelf area most seem to be in agreement that the Leeds link is a 'nice to have' but the majority would rather like to see an improved 681, although First are not 100% to blame the 508s gained a bad reputation over the years due to bad timekeeping mostly down to traffic & long journey times during the years it was routed via Farsley alongside a mix of other reasons. Alright but I still think Culter Heights should still get a link to Leeds.
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Post by shelf81 on Mar 24, 2024 20:00:33 GMT 1
I'd actually say the opposite outside of a few peak time journeys regarding the loadings. It leaves Halifax with fairly ok loads but the majority are going to places the 681 also serves, after Odsal Top offpeak it normally only carries 20-25 people max. apart from a maybe a couple of Saturday trips until around Culter Heights area then starts to pick up again, especially at Thornbury if the X6s have gaps thanks to frequency cuts mixed with traffic delays. An improved 681,X6 & some adapting to the Bradford network would bring more overall benefits than keeping the 508. From whenever I've spoke to people around the Shelf area most seem to be in agreement that the Leeds link is a 'nice to have' but the majority would rather like to see an improved 681, although First are not 100% to blame the 508s gained a bad reputation over the years due to bad timekeeping mostly down to traffic & long journey times during the years it was routed via Farsley alongside a mix of other reasons. Alright but I still think Culter Heights should still get a link to Leeds. Culter Heights seems a strange choice, as it's not a large area when you remember you've got Holme Wood directly behind it, the only reason it's had a link to Leeds is because it just it just happens to be on the road towards Thornbury compared to somewhere of similar size like Fagley that just misses out. I Doubt that section makes up more than 10-15% of the overall passenger numbers so wouldn't support it's own service without something else being added such a loop around Holme Wood,Tyersal or Brierley. If the Holme Wood & Tong housing expansion is ever delivered there might be some potential in a Bradford - Culter Heights - Holme Wood - Tong - Leeds service
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Mar 24, 2024 20:30:21 GMT 1
Alright but I still think Culter Heights should still get a link to Leeds. Culter Heights seems a strange choice, as it's not a large area when you remember you've got Holme Wood directly behind it, the only reason it's had a link to Leeds is because it just it just happens to be on the road towards Thornbury compared to somewhere of similar size like Fagley that just misses out. I Doubt that section makes up more than 10-15% of the overall passenger numbers so wouldn't support it's own service without something else being added such a loop around Holme Wood,Tyersal or Brierley. If the Holme Wood & Tong housing expansion is ever delivered there might be some potential in a Bradford - Culter Heights - Holme Wood - Tong - Leeds service It makes up quite a lot of the passengers of 508, if you ride the journeys you will realise most passengers seem to get on between Odsal and Thornbury.
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Mar 27, 2024 13:44:02 GMT 1
North Kirklees Review
115 Halifax - Hipperholme - Bailiff Bridge - Hartshead Moor - Heckmondwike - Dewsbury - Alverthorpe - Wakefield This service will be a new service restoring links lost from when the 254 was cut from Heckmondwike, Dewsbury and Wakefield as well as restoring the lost link between Halifax, Dewsbury and Wakefield. This service will be designed to run half hourly Monday to Saturday daytime between Wakefield, Dewsbury and Heckmondwike with an hourly service extending to Halifax during the daytime. During the evenings (after 2000), services will be designed to run between Wakefield and Heckmondwike only, with Sunday daytime journeys running the full route hourly. The service will provide a faster route for Alverthorpe and Flanshaw and will be designed to serve Silkwood Business Park which hasn't had a bus service since the 115 cut a few years back. Between Halifax and Hipperholme, this service will run along Shibden Hall Road and be timed half an hour apart from new service 550 to form a half hourly service for the Shibden Hall Village, which is currently a reasonably populated area that doesn't have a bus service. A detour in Lightcliffe will also take place serving Greenfield Avenue, Bentley Avenue and Smith House Lane to partially replace service 571. From here, the service will run direct along the A649 to Heckmondwike Bus Hub. Between Heckmondwike and Dewsbury the service will replace the 250 route restoring the half hourly frequency lost from 254 in this section. From here, the service will be designed to follow 268 until the Flushdyke M1 motorway junction, then it will run through Silkwood Park, Flawnshaw, Batley Road and Balne Lane into Wakefield City Centre.
204 Dewsbury - Northorpe - Mirfield - Brighouse - Elland - West Vale - Calderdale Royal - Halifax This is a new service designed to replace service 205 between Dewsbury, Northorpe and Mirfield with a slightly revised route to make it less of a copy and paste of the 202 service. From Flash Lane, Northorpe the service will be rerouted along Towngate and Crowlees Road before running the normal route along Knowl Road into Mirfield Town Centre, from here the service will continue along the old 278 route through to Halifax restoring lost links from when the service was cut and replacing the proposed 538 service designed to run between Halifax and Brighouse. This service will be designed to run half-hourly Monday to Saturday daytime and hourly during the evenings. Service 205 between the Savile Arms Pub and Mirfield will be replaced by the 253 service.
253/253A Dewsbury - Mirfield - Roberttown - Hightown - Cleckheaton - Hunsworth - East Bierley - Bradford These new bus service will be designed to partially replace services 205, 256, 259 and 263 restoring links from Mirfield to Bradford. This service will run hourly Monday to Sunday daytime with an evening service every hour between Dewsbury and Cleckheaton only, partially replacing the evening and Sunday service on the 260. Service 253 will be designed to follow the 203 between Dewsbury and Mirfield before heading along Doctor Lane, Knowl Road Water Royd Lane and Oldbank road partially replacing service 205. From here, the service will continue to Cleckheaton via the 263 route towards Roberttown, then via Church Road, Clough Lane and Hightown Road into Cleckheaton Bus Station. From here the service will then follow the 256 route towards Bradford. Service 253A will be the new number for service 263 running during Schooldays only.
254/255/X54 Halifax - Cleckheaton - Leeds I have previously mentioned on numerous occasions that I would extend the 254 to Halifax via Southowram in replacement of service 571, as it's pretty much pointless after Brighouse with all areas being served faster on alternate services such as Halifax to Lightcliffe (255), Halifax to Hipperholme (255, 548/9), Halifax to Shelf (508, 681/2 and even 526), Hipperholme to Brighouse (548/9) and not to mention Brighouse to Lightcliffe is also done on services 686 along the same route. With WYCA planning to make the full 254/5 half hourly each, as part of the BSIP, this can allow a combined every 15 minute bus service between Halifax and Cleckheaton and allow Clifton to have a better bus service than it currently receives. This would be justified as there are plans for new housing developments and a new business park for Clifton, which will welcome opportunities for an improved, more regular bus service. New service X54, will partially replace the old X25 service during peak times designed to run as a limited stop service to allow customers to travel quickly from the likes of Halifax, Salterhebble, West Vale, Elland, Birstall and Cleckheaton to Clifton Business Park as well as providing a faster peak time service for commuters from Hartshead Moor, Cleckheaton, Gomersal and Birstall to Leeds. This service from Leeds will be designed to follow the 200/201/202/203 towards M621 junction 4, where it will then use the M621 motorway towards Birstall Retail Park. From here the service will run limited stop to Cleckheaton stopping at Birstall Retail Park, Birstall Market Place, Gomersall Cross Roads, Spen Nibshaw Lane and Cleckheaton Bus Station. The service will then serve all bus stops towards Brighouse Bus Station and then continue as limited stop towards Halifax Bus Station only stopping at Elland Morrison's, Elland Huddersfield Road, Jepson Lane Victoria Road, West Vale, Exley Bank and Calderdale Royal Hospital. An hourly evening service will also be introduced to services 254/5, combined to form a half hourly service between Leeds and Cleckheaton.
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Post by stephen01 on Mar 27, 2024 18:50:32 GMT 1
North Kirklees Review115 Halifax - Hipperholme - Bailiff Bridge - Hartshead Moor - Heckmondwike - Dewsbury - Alverthorpe - Wakefield This service will be a new service restoring links lost from when the 254 was cut from Heckmondwike, Dewsbury and Wakefield as well as restoring the lost link between Halifax, Dewsbury and Wakefield. This service will be designed to run half hourly Monday to Saturday daytime between Wakefield, Dewsbury and Heckmondwike with an hourly service extending to Halifax during the daytime. During the evenings (after 2000), services will be designed to run between Wakefield and Heckmondwike only, with Sunday daytime journeys running the full route hourly. The service will provide a faster route for Alverthorpe and Flanshaw and will be designed to serve Silkwood Business Park which hasn't had a bus service since the 115 cut a few years back. Between Halifax and Hipperholme, this service will run along Shibden Hall Road and be timed half an hour apart from new service 550 to form a half hourly service for the Shibden Hall Village, which is currently a reasonably populated area that doesn't have a bus service. A detour in Lightcliffe will also take place serving Greenfield Avenue, Bentley Avenue and Smith House Lane to partially replace service 571. From here, the service will run direct along the A649 to Heckmondwike Bus Hub. Between Heckmondwike and Dewsbury the service will replace the 250 route restoring the half hourly frequency lost from 254 in this section. From here, the service will be designed to follow 268 until the Flushdyke M1 motorway junction, then it will run through Silkwood Park, Flawnshaw, Batley Road and Balne Lane into Wakefield City Centre. 204 Dewsbury - Northorpe - Mirfield - Brighouse - Elland - West Vale - Calderdale Royal - Halifax This is a new service designed to replace service 205 between Dewsbury, Northorpe and Mirfield with a slightly revised route to make it less of a copy and paste of the 202 service. From Flash Lane, Northorpe the service will be rerouted along Towngate and Crowlees Road before running the normal route along Knowl Road into Mirfield Town Centre, from here the service will continue along the old 278 route through to Halifax restoring lost links from when the service was cut and replacing the proposed 538 service designed to run between Halifax and Brighouse. This service will be designed to run half-hourly Monday to Saturday daytime and hourly during the evenings. Service 205 between the Savile Arms Pub and Mirfield will be replaced by the 253 service. 253/253A Dewsbury - Mirfield - Roberttown - Hightown - Cleckheaton - Hunsworth - East Bierley - Bradford These new bus service will be designed to partially replace services 205, 256, 259 and 263 restoring links from Mirfield to Bradford. This service will run hourly Monday to Sunday daytime with an evening service every hour between Dewsbury and Cleckheaton only, partially replacing the evening and Sunday service on the 260. Service 253 will be designed to follow the 203 between Dewsbury and Mirfield before heading along Doctor Lane, Knowl Road Water Royd Lane and Oldbank road partially replacing service 205. From here, the service will continue to Cleckheaton via the 263 route towards Roberttown, then via Church Road, Clough Lane and Hightown Road into Cleckheaton Bus Station. From here the service will then follow the 256 route towards Bradford. Service 253A will be the new number for service 263 running during Schooldays only. 254/255/X54 Halifax - Cleckheaton - Leeds I have previously mentioned on numerous occasions that I would extend the 254 to Halifax via Southowram in replacement of service 571, as it's pretty much pointless after Brighouse with all areas being served faster on alternate services such as Halifax to Lightcliffe (255), Halifax to Hipperholme (255, 548/9), Halifax to Shelf (508, 681/2 and even 526), Hipperholme to Brighouse (548/9) and not to mention Brighouse to Lightcliffe is also done on services 686 along the same route. With WYCA planning to make the full 254/5 half hourly each, as part of the BSIP, this can allow a combined every 15 minute bus service between Halifax and Cleckheaton and allow Clifton to have a better bus service than it currently receives. This would be justified as there are plans for new housing developments and a new business park for Clifton, which will welcome opportunities for an improved, more regular bus service. New service X54, will partially replace the old X25 service during peak times designed to run as a limited stop service to allow customers to travel quickly from the likes of Halifax, Salterhebble, West Vale, Elland, Birstall and Cleckheaton to Clifton Business Park as well as providing a faster peak time service for commuters from Hartshead Moor, Cleckheaton, Gomersal and Birstall to Leeds. This service from Leeds will be designed to follow the 200/201/202/203 towards M621 junction 4, where it will then use the M621 motorway towards Birstall Retail Park. From here the service will run limited stop to Cleckheaton stopping at Birstall Retail Park, Birstall Market Place, Gomersall Cross Roads, Spen Nibshaw Lane and Cleckheaton Bus Station. The service will then serve all bus stops towards Brighouse Bus Station and then continue as limited stop towards Halifax Bus Station only stopping at Elland Morrison's, Elland Huddersfield Road, Jepson Lane Victoria Road, West Vale, Exley Bank and Calderdale Royal Hospital. An hourly evening service will also be introduced to services 254/5, combined to form a half hourly service between Leeds and Cleckheaton. so basically you want to axe a route about to approach it's 100th year in operation (205 Mirfield/Dewsbury Circular) and replace it with a resurrection of a route that Arriva gave up as there's no cash value to it (253) given the fact it was only carrying pass holders and very little cash paying customers which is the same issue you have with running to Halifax following the old 278 route.
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Mar 27, 2024 21:05:26 GMT 1
North Kirklees Review115 Halifax - Hipperholme - Bailiff Bridge - Hartshead Moor - Heckmondwike - Dewsbury - Alverthorpe - Wakefield This service will be a new service restoring links lost from when the 254 was cut from Heckmondwike, Dewsbury and Wakefield as well as restoring the lost link between Halifax, Dewsbury and Wakefield. This service will be designed to run half hourly Monday to Saturday daytime between Wakefield, Dewsbury and Heckmondwike with an hourly service extending to Halifax during the daytime. During the evenings (after 2000), services will be designed to run between Wakefield and Heckmondwike only, with Sunday daytime journeys running the full route hourly. The service will provide a faster route for Alverthorpe and Flanshaw and will be designed to serve Silkwood Business Park which hasn't had a bus service since the 115 cut a few years back. Between Halifax and Hipperholme, this service will run along Shibden Hall Road and be timed half an hour apart from new service 550 to form a half hourly service for the Shibden Hall Village, which is currently a reasonably populated area that doesn't have a bus service. A detour in Lightcliffe will also take place serving Greenfield Avenue, Bentley Avenue and Smith House Lane to partially replace service 571. From here, the service will run direct along the A649 to Heckmondwike Bus Hub. Between Heckmondwike and Dewsbury the service will replace the 250 route restoring the half hourly frequency lost from 254 in this section. From here, the service will be designed to follow 268 until the Flushdyke M1 motorway junction, then it will run through Silkwood Park, Flawnshaw, Batley Road and Balne Lane into Wakefield City Centre. 204 Dewsbury - Northorpe - Mirfield - Brighouse - Elland - West Vale - Calderdale Royal - Halifax This is a new service designed to replace service 205 between Dewsbury, Northorpe and Mirfield with a slightly revised route to make it less of a copy and paste of the 202 service. From Flash Lane, Northorpe the service will be rerouted along Towngate and Crowlees Road before running the normal route along Knowl Road into Mirfield Town Centre, from here the service will continue along the old 278 route through to Halifax restoring lost links from when the service was cut and replacing the proposed 538 service designed to run between Halifax and Brighouse. This service will be designed to run half-hourly Monday to Saturday daytime and hourly during the evenings. Service 205 between the Savile Arms Pub and Mirfield will be replaced by the 253 service. 253/253A Dewsbury - Mirfield - Roberttown - Hightown - Cleckheaton - Hunsworth - East Bierley - Bradford These new bus service will be designed to partially replace services 205, 256, 259 and 263 restoring links from Mirfield to Bradford. This service will run hourly Monday to Sunday daytime with an evening service every hour between Dewsbury and Cleckheaton only, partially replacing the evening and Sunday service on the 260. Service 253 will be designed to follow the 203 between Dewsbury and Mirfield before heading along Doctor Lane, Knowl Road Water Royd Lane and Oldbank road partially replacing service 205. From here, the service will continue to Cleckheaton via the 263 route towards Roberttown, then via Church Road, Clough Lane and Hightown Road into Cleckheaton Bus Station. From here the service will then follow the 256 route towards Bradford. Service 253A will be the new number for service 263 running during Schooldays only. 254/255/X54 Halifax - Cleckheaton - Leeds I have previously mentioned on numerous occasions that I would extend the 254 to Halifax via Southowram in replacement of service 571, as it's pretty much pointless after Brighouse with all areas being served faster on alternate services such as Halifax to Lightcliffe (255), Halifax to Hipperholme (255, 548/9), Halifax to Shelf (508, 681/2 and even 526), Hipperholme to Brighouse (548/9) and not to mention Brighouse to Lightcliffe is also done on services 686 along the same route. With WYCA planning to make the full 254/5 half hourly each, as part of the BSIP, this can allow a combined every 15 minute bus service between Halifax and Cleckheaton and allow Clifton to have a better bus service than it currently receives. This would be justified as there are plans for new housing developments and a new business park for Clifton, which will welcome opportunities for an improved, more regular bus service. New service X54, will partially replace the old X25 service during peak times designed to run as a limited stop service to allow customers to travel quickly from the likes of Halifax, Salterhebble, West Vale, Elland, Birstall and Cleckheaton to Clifton Business Park as well as providing a faster peak time service for commuters from Hartshead Moor, Cleckheaton, Gomersal and Birstall to Leeds. This service from Leeds will be designed to follow the 200/201/202/203 towards M621 junction 4, where it will then use the M621 motorway towards Birstall Retail Park. From here the service will run limited stop to Cleckheaton stopping at Birstall Retail Park, Birstall Market Place, Gomersall Cross Roads, Spen Nibshaw Lane and Cleckheaton Bus Station. The service will then serve all bus stops towards Brighouse Bus Station and then continue as limited stop towards Halifax Bus Station only stopping at Elland Morrison's, Elland Huddersfield Road, Jepson Lane Victoria Road, West Vale, Exley Bank and Calderdale Royal Hospital. An hourly evening service will also be introduced to services 254/5, combined to form a half hourly service between Leeds and Cleckheaton. so basically you want to axe a route about to approach it's 100th year in operation (205 Mirfield/Dewsbury Circular) and replace it with a resurrection of a route that Arriva gave up as there's no cash value to it (253) given the fact it was only carrying pass holders and very little cash paying customers which is the same issue you have with running to Halifax following the old 278 route. If 278 wasn't used enough why were commercial replacements made with new services 78 and X78 and the 262?
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Post by shelf81 on Mar 27, 2024 21:16:28 GMT 1
so basically you want to axe a route about to approach it's 100th year in operation (205 Mirfield/Dewsbury Circular) and replace it with a resurrection of a route that Arriva gave up as there's no cash value to it (253) given the fact it was only carrying pass holders and very little cash paying customers which is the same issue you have with running to Halifax following the old 278 route. If 278 wasn't used enough why were commercial replacements made with new services 78 and X78 and the 262? The replacements was operated by Tiger what was a low cost operation requiring less return than the main Arriva operations so had more of chance to be able to make the route viable, but in the end it still wasn't making enough of a return. The fact the routes wasn't important/busy enough for Metro to issue more of a replacement than just revising the Elland locals should speak for itself.
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Mar 27, 2024 21:21:17 GMT 1
If 278 wasn't used enough why were commercial replacements made with new services 78 and X78 and the 262? The replacements was operated by Tiger what was a low cost operation requiring less return than the main Arriva operations so had more of chance to be able to make the route viable, but in the end it still wasn't making enough of a return. The fact the routes wasn't important/busy enough for Metro to issue more of a replacement than just revising the Elland locals should speak for itself. The reason why the replacements weren't busy, was because they were ridiculous replacements. West Vale were cut off the route, people could no longer travel to Mirfield and Dewsbury from Brighouse, Elland and Halifax. The 262 was a sad little exstention that didn't make sense and it lead to the fall of the route. People from Kirkheaton were far more happier to travel to Dewsbury as that had far more to offer than a sad little Calderdale town that has nothing. What made it worse for the people that relied on the 278, changing from X78 and 78 was useless as it was 3 connections to Dewsbury onto 262 and 203.
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Post by stephen01 on Mar 27, 2024 22:54:11 GMT 1
The replacements was operated by Tiger what was a low cost operation requiring less return than the main Arriva operations so had more of chance to be able to make the route viable, but in the end it still wasn't making enough of a return. The fact the routes wasn't important/busy enough for Metro to issue more of a replacement than just revising the Elland locals should speak for itself. The reason why the replacements weren't busy, was because they were ridiculous replacements. West Vale were cut off the route, people could no longer travel to Mirfield and Dewsbury from Brighouse, Elland and Halifax. The 262 was a sad little exstention that didn't make sense and it lead to the fall of the route. People from Kirkheaton were far more happier to travel to Dewsbury as that had far more to offer than a sad little Calderdale town that has nothing. What made it worse for the people that relied on the 278, changing from X78 and 78 was useless as it was 3 connections to Dewsbury onto 262 and 203. the re-routing of the 262 was done to provide a connection between Mirfield & Brighouse. The X78 & 78 routes again were chosen by Tiger were actually the 278 routing Tiger used for extra Capacity during the Yorkshire Grand dèpart for l'tour de France. The 78 did serve west vale but only on School Days. The 78 became part of the Elland network as did part of the X78. It made sense for 262 to extend on as it worked to provide through connection with 203 with both been every 30 mins at the time. The 262 was more used than X78 & 78 though as it kept it's routing to Brighouse. The problem you had with 262's re-routing is that your robbed one area of a direct & frequent service to Kirkwood Hospice.
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Post by shelf81 on Mar 28, 2024 22:14:37 GMT 1
The replacements was operated by Tiger what was a low cost operation requiring less return than the main Arriva operations so had more of chance to be able to make the route viable, but in the end it still wasn't making enough of a return. The fact the routes wasn't important/busy enough for Metro to issue more of a replacement than just revising the Elland locals should speak for itself. The reason why the replacements weren't busy, was because they were ridiculous replacements. West Vale were cut off the route, people could no longer travel to Mirfield and Dewsbury from Brighouse, Elland and Halifax. The 262 was a sad little exstention that didn't make sense and it lead to the fall of the route. People from Kirkheaton were far more happier to travel to Dewsbury as that had far more to offer than a sad little Calderdale town that has nothing. What made it worse for the people that relied on the 278, changing from X78 and 78 was useless as it was 3 connections to Dewsbury onto 262 and 203. Whilst you might see them as ridiculous I would guess they based it off the data they had from the 278 at what flows had the most potential to become commercially viable under Tiger. If flows to Dewsbury was strong on the 262 they probably would of kept them & extended the short journey per hour to Brighouse or restored them after the Brighouse attempt failed, but the fact they didn't shows to me at least that the passenger flows on 262 wasn't as strong towards Dewsbury even after the cut to Hourly what shouldn't be a surprise as at the time I would guess most people between Mirfield & Dewsbury would have had Arriva tickets, what wasn't valid on Tiger. Saying Dewsbury has more than Brighouse is a bold claim as well.
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pricel
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Post by pricel on Mar 29, 2024 9:35:42 GMT 1
The reason why the replacements weren't busy, was because they were ridiculous replacements. West Vale were cut off the route, people could no longer travel to Mirfield and Dewsbury from Brighouse, Elland and Halifax. The 262 was a sad little exstention that didn't make sense and it lead to the fall of the route. People from Kirkheaton were far more happier to travel to Dewsbury as that had far more to offer than a sad little Calderdale town that has nothing. What made it worse for the people that relied on the 278, changing from X78 and 78 was useless as it was 3 connections to Dewsbury onto 262 and 203. Whilst you might see them as ridiculous I would guess they based it off the data they had from the 278 at what flows had the most potential to become commercially viable under Tiger. If flows to Dewsbury was strong on the 262 they probably would of kept them & extended the short journey per hour to Brighouse or restored them after the Brighouse attempt failed, but the fact they didn't shows to me at least that the passenger flows on 262 wasn't as strong towards Dewsbury even after the cut to Hourly what shouldn't be a surprise as at the time I would guess most people between Mirfield & Dewsbury would have had Arriva tickets, what wasn't valid on Tiger. Saying Dewsbury has more than Brighouse is a bold claim as well. Doesn't really when you realise Dewsbury has a more popular and seen as a better market and customers would often connect to Dewsbury Hospital.
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Post by stephen01 on Mar 29, 2024 10:20:52 GMT 1
Whilst you might see them as ridiculous I would guess they based it off the data they had from the 278 at what flows had the most potential to become commercially viable under Tiger. If flows to Dewsbury was strong on the 262 they probably would of kept them & extended the short journey per hour to Brighouse or restored them after the Brighouse attempt failed, but the fact they didn't shows to me at least that the passenger flows on 262 wasn't as strong towards Dewsbury even after the cut to Hourly what shouldn't be a surprise as at the time I would guess most people between Mirfield & Dewsbury would have had Arriva tickets, what wasn't valid on Tiger. Saying Dewsbury has more than Brighouse is a bold claim as well. Doesn't really when you realise Dewsbury has a more popular and seen as a better market and customers would often connect to Dewsbury Hospital. the market and the rest of Dewsbury was rapidly declining when the 262 was re-routed (i should know from been from that area) and as for connections to the hospital that reduced drastically when the 282 was axed in frequency on a weekday & Saturday.
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Post by shelf81 on Mar 29, 2024 13:23:30 GMT 1
Whilst you might see them as ridiculous I would guess they based it off the data they had from the 278 at what flows had the most potential to become commercially viable under Tiger. If flows to Dewsbury was strong on the 262 they probably would of kept them & extended the short journey per hour to Brighouse or restored them after the Brighouse attempt failed, but the fact they didn't shows to me at least that the passenger flows on 262 wasn't as strong towards Dewsbury even after the cut to Hourly what shouldn't be a surprise as at the time I would guess most people between Mirfield & Dewsbury would have had Arriva tickets, what wasn't valid on Tiger. Saying Dewsbury has more than Brighouse is a bold claim as well. Doesn't really when you realise Dewsbury has a more popular and seen as a better market and customers would often connect to Dewsbury Hospital. Dewsbury has been in long term decline with both the market & the town centre as a whole for over 10-15 years & realistically how many people from the Hopton/Kirkheaton areas are you expecting per day to travel to D&D Hospital rather than HRI or even CRI? Arriva/Tiger are a business at the end of the day, if they was making a decent return on running the 262 to Dewsbury & the 253/278 they all would still operate. Whilst it's nice to look back with rose tinted specs & think that each route was once busy & profitable the fact is over time travel patterns have changed, costs have increased & what might of worked for operators 10-20 years ago won't work now.
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Post by stephen01 on Mar 29, 2024 15:55:28 GMT 1
Doesn't really when you realise Dewsbury has a more popular and seen as a better market and customers would often connect to Dewsbury Hospital. Dewsbury has been in long term decline with both the market & the town centre as a whole for over 10-15 years & realistically how many people from the Hopton/Kirkheaton areas are you expecting per day to travel to D&D Hospital rather than HRI or even CRI? Arriva/Tiger are a business at the end of the day, if they was making a decent return on running the 262 to Dewsbury & the 253/278 they all would still operate. Whilst it's nice to look back with rose tinted specs & think that each route was once busy & profitable the fact is over time travel patterns have changed, costs have increased & what might of worked for operators 10-20 years ago won't work now. the residents use Patient Transport instead.
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pricel
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Post by pricel on May 4, 2024 21:49:47 GMT 1
East Calderdale (plus Leeds as relevant) In addition to my Halifax local services post, I thought of using a few ideas. A more improved 508 (X8) service, a restored link from Hipperholme to St Luke's Hospital and Bradford City Centre, a bus service for the unserved by bus Shibden Hall Road, a new service linking Halifax to the Spen Valley, Dewsbury and Wakefield as well as providing a better service for Shelf Hall Lane (where the majority of the Shelf population actually lives). 58 Leeds - Kirkstall - Coal Hill Road - Farsley - Stanningley - Pudsey - Acres Hall Estate This is a service designed to run every 20 minutes restoring a more frequent service between Leeds, Kirkstall and Coal Hill from the old 508, 670 and 760. Journeys will be timed every 10 minutes with Aireline Monday to Saturday daytime and every 15 minutes during Sunday daytimes. This service however will not run during the evening with service 508 operating instead. This route will be designed to follow the old 508 route between Farsley and Leeds. From Farsley the service will continue along the 16/16A route to Pudsey Bus Station via Stanningley and will continue beyond the bus station toward Lowtown, Kent Road then forming a loop around Acres Hall Avenue and Valley Road. I came up with this service due to the 508 re-routing choice taking place which had caused controversy amongst bus users between Farsley and Leeds as there is now only 16 which takes a long time to get to Leeds. As for routing it through South Pudsey, I thought it would be good to increase catchment to the service to ensure its stability. 60 Leeds - Kirkstall - Rodley - Calverley - Greengates - Thackley - Shipley - Saltaire - Bingley - Crossflatts - Keighley Service 60A will be withdrawn and replaced by the new restored links from services 58 and 508. Service 60 will now run every 20 minutes Mon-Sat daytimes to form an every 10 minute service between Coal Hill, Kirkstall and Leeds City Centre. 115 Halifax - Hipperholme - Bailiff Bridge - Hartshead Moor - Heckmondwike - Dewsbury - Alverthorpe - Wakefield This service will be a new service restoring links lost from when the 254 was cut from Heckmondwike, Dewsbury and Wakefield as well as restoring the lost link between Halifax, Dewsbury and Wakefield. This service will be designed to run half hourly Monday to Saturday daytime between Wakefield, Dewsbury and Heckmondwike with an hourly service extending to Halifax during the daytime. During the evenings (after 2000), services will be designed to run between Wakefield and Heckmondwike only, with Sunday daytime journeys running the full route hourly. The service will provide a faster route for Alverthorpe and Flanshaw and will be designed to serve Silkwood Business Park which hasn't had a bus service since the 115 cut a few years back. Between Halifax and Hipperholme, this service will run along Shibden Hall Road and be timed half an hour apart from new service 550 to form a half hourly service for the Shibden Hall Village, which is currently a reasonably populated area that doesn't have a bus service. A detour in Lightcliffe will also take place serving Greenfield Avenue, Bentley Avenue and Smith House Lane to partially replace service 571. From here, the service will run direct along the A649 to Heckmondwike Bus Hub. Between Heckmondwike and Dewsbury the service will replace the 250 route restoring the half hourly frequency lost from 254 in this section. From here, the service will be designed to follow 268 until the Flushdyke M1 motorway junction, then it will run through Silkwood Park, Flawnshaw, Batley Road and Balne Lane into Wakefield City Centre. 254/255/X54 Halifax - Cleckheaton - Leeds I have previously mentioned on numerous occasions that I would extend the 254 to Halifax via Southowram in replacement of service 571, as it's pretty much pointless after Brighouse with all areas being served faster on alternate services such as Halifax to Lightcliffe (255), Halifax to Hipperholme (255, 548/9), Halifax to Shelf (508, 681/2 and even 526), Hipperholme to Brighouse (548/9) and not to mention Brighouse to Lightcliffe is also done on services 686 along the same route. With WYCA planning to make the full 254/5 half hourly each, as part of the BSIP, this can allow a combined every 15 minute bus service between Halifax and Cleckheaton and allow Clifton to have a better bus service than it currently receives. This would be justified as there are plans for new housing developments and a new business park for Clifton, which will welcome opportunities for an improved, more regular bus service. New service X54, will partially replace the old X25 service during peak times designed to run as a limited stop service to allow customers to travel quickly from the likes of Halifax, Salterhebble, West Vale, Elland, Birstall and Cleckheaton to Clifton Business Park as well as providing a faster peak time service for commuters from Hartshead Moor, Cleckheaton, Gomersal and Birstall to Leeds. This service from Leeds will be designed to follow the 200/201/202/203 towards M621 junction 4, where it will then use the M621 motorway towards Birstall Retail Park. From here the service will run limited stop to Cleckheaton stopping at Birstall Retail Park, Birstall Market Place, Gomersall Cross Roads, Spen Nibshaw Lane and Cleckheaton Bus Station. The service will then serve all bus stops towards Brighouse Bus Station and then continue as limited stop towards Halifax Bus Station only stopping at Elland Morrison's, Elland Huddersfield Road, Jepson Lane Victoria Road, West Vale, Exley Bank and Calderdale Royal Hospital. An hourly evening service will also be introduced to services 254/5, combined to form a half hourly service between Leeds and Cleckheaton. 507 Halifax - Stump Cross - Shibden Village - Northowram This will be the new number for service 534 with the service being closely numbered with service 508 to match the corridor area. 508/X8 Halifax - Northowram - Shelf - Odsal Top - Dudley Hill - Thornbury - Farsley (508) - Kirkstall (508) - Armley (X8) - Leeds City Centre I think the future of the 508 bus service can be improved if some thought were put into it. One of the major flaws leading to a drop in customer levels is the decrease of frequency and interworking the service with Halifax locals causing poor scheduling. I think if the service was brought back to every 30 minutes Monday to Saturday and a sensible hourly timetable during the evening and Sunday this service would work. It would also be worth investing in this service as there are proposals for 94 new-build houses in Northowram according to this site: site www.persimmonhomes.com/corporate/media/news/2023/plans-submitted-for-new-homes-in-calderdale/. Since Leeds, is a very major city for the UK as its one of the UK's largest business Centres it would encourage these people to use the X8 service as parking is already proven a nightmare in the city. To improve this service I would introduce a new X8 service during the daytime running half hourly between 0600 and 1900 (hourly Sundays between 0900 and 1700). This service will also now run as a limited stop service between Leeds City Centre and thingy Lane, Thornbury calling at Headrow D, Civic L, Wellington Bridge, Armley Branch Road, Cockshott Lane, New Pudsey Railway Stn (Leeds bound), Dawsons Corner (Halifax Bound), and Thornbury Barracks as places between this are currently have service 72 which runs frequently. The service will also detour to serve Newhall Way Industrial estate by Rooley Lane. Service 508 will run as an alternative service to X8 during the evenings and early mornings running every 60 minute between 1900 - 2300 (every 2 hours Sundays between 1700 - 2100). The 508 will follow the old route via Farsley and Kirkstall to increase catchment during the evenings as well as running via Northowram village with journeys being timed with 682 to form a combined half-hourly evening service between Halifax, Northowram and Shelf. 550 Halifax - Shibden Hall Road - Hipperholme - Lightcliffe - Coley - Shelf - Wibsey - St Luke's Hospital - Bradford City Centre This service will be designed to partially replace service 571 between Hipperholme and Shelf whilst restoring the withdrawn section along Wibsey Park Avenue through to St Luke's Hospital and Bradford. The curtailing of service 571 damaged links from Hipperholme to St Luke's and Bradford, Shelf to St Luke's and an actual bus service for Wibsey Park Avenue. This service will run out of Halifax to Hipperholme via Shibden Hall Road providing a bus service for the houses on this area as well as a more easier bus service to access Shibden Park. This service will combine with the 115 to form a half hourly service in this area as well as an every 15 minute service with both 115 and 255 between Halifax, Hipperholme and Lightcliffe. From Hipperholme the service will run a loop around Hipperholme and Lightcliffe on Westfield Ave, Knowle Top Lane and Bramley Lane as shown by the screenshot below. From Bramley Lane the service will follow the normal 571 route through to Coley and Stone Chair roundabout before continuing along Brighouse & Denholme Gate Road and Shelf Hall Lane to serve the actual village of Shelf served on the 526. I don't understand how this area only has a couple trips a day from the 526 when it is the area of Shelf with the most catchment zone. From Shelf, the service will continue along the withdrawn 571 route towards Bradford Interchange. This service will run hourly all week between the hours of 0500 - 2100 Mon - Sat and 0900 - 1900 Sundays. According to google maps Shibden Hall Road takes the same amount of time as going along the A58 to Hipperholme and the 255 is timetabled to take 10 minutes between Halifax and Hipperholme. Then there's an extra 10 minutes estimated to do the loop around Hipperholme. Then judging off the old 571 timetable there is an extra 28 minutes from Hipperholme to Bradford City Centre making the journey time from end to end being 48 minutes (slightly longer than the 576) which may see increased usage end to end compared with the old 571. 554 Halifax - Bank Top - Southowram Circular This service will be a new service designed to partially replace service HX2. The 554 will be designed to run out of Halifax Bus Station via Sainsbury's, Halifax Minister, Southowram Bank, Bank Top, Fairfax Estate and to Southowram Turning Circle. This service will run hourly Monday to Saturday daytime between 0900 - 1700. 571 Halifax - Southowram - Brighouse - Whinney Hill - Lightcliffe - Hipperholme - Shelf This service will be withdrawn and replaced by services 254, 550 and 686. 681/682 Halifax - Northowram - Shelf - Odsal Top - Bradford City Centre I would retime evenings on the 682 to provide a better service with 508. Daytime journeys on 681 are also expected to run every 20 minutes according to the bus reform, so I would make this frequency change whilst also timing buses sensibly with the X8. 686 Brighouse - Bailiff Bridge - Wyke - Odsal Top - Bradford - Scholes I would revise the route to serve Whinney Hill Estate in order to replace service 571. I understand these may not be commercially viable which is why I would hope to see similar ideas come through in franchising.
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Post by shelf81 on May 5, 2024 1:17:44 GMT 1
The new houses you quoted for Northowram on Hall Road are a little far out from the your proposed X8 service to try & target them, as passengers would have to walk past both your proposed 507 & 681/2 routes to it.
If WYCA & the councils want to show there's some actual partnership in franchising, one suggestion from me would be to remove the cobbles from the main hill on Hough what would allow the 508 (or your X8) to use it & access Northowram Green what is closer to the newer developments of the village to generate customers leaving Bradford Rd to be served by an improved 681. Considering how bad traffic can get on Bradford Rd towards Stump Cross it could result in faster peak time journeys as well (although the train will always win for people wanting a fast service to Leeds from Halifax).
The reason why Shelf Hall Road has never had a 'main' service serving it is mostly due to the 526 previously serving it more often & how tight it can get with parked cars where it splits into West Street & Cross End, plus there's multiple paths that lead out onto Bradford Road directly next to bus stops.
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joseph
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Posts: 1,144
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Post by joseph on May 5, 2024 8:48:44 GMT 1
I'd change the Ilkley network so that more of Ilkley could be served in some way and so that residents on one side of Ilkley didn't need to endure a lengthy journey on the current 961.
Service 960 2 hourly between 7am and 6pm each direction from the rail station via Brook Street, Leeds Road, Wheatley Lane, Ben Rhydding Road, Cowpasture Road back to Ilkley station with a stop in Booths Supermarket as well. Journey time would be around 25 minutes allowing time for typical traffic on Leeds Road and Wheatley Lane.
The 960 would interwork with a new 961 (10 miniutes wait time in Ilkley from 960) which would basically be the old 961 serving Hebers Ghyll but running via Kings Road, Victoria Avenue, Parish Ghyll Drive, Albany Walk, Queens Road and Wells Road back to Ilkley station. This would cut out Wilton Road which looks a bit narrow with parked cars although the alternative looks to have a couple of problem areas near the Wilton Road junction. For this route however it would just run one way in a clockwise direction but hourly. I'd allocate 20 minutes for the full circuit taking into account parked car issues.
The 961 would then interwork with a new 963 (10 mins wait time in Ilkley from 961) from Ilkley station via Brook Street, New Brook Street, Denton Road, Rupert Road, Middleton Ave, Curly Hill, Slates Lane, Hardings Lane, Langbar Road, Denton Road, New Brook Street and Brook Street back to the station. This would also operate hourly but in one direction only with a journey time of 25 minutes allowing for the traffic on New Brook Street. Now I know homes owners up Curly Hill wouldn't use this bus as they are too posh for it lol, but this route would be ideal for those living up on Slates Lane and Middleton Village as Curly Hill is one hell of a hill to walk up. Those lower down near Middleton Avenue/Rupert Road/Denton Road would also possibly make use of it as it's about a good 20 minute walk from some parts to the station from there, also it's ideal for Ilkley Park too for visitors with young kids who would find the walk taking a while.
2 buses would be needed for this network, but it makes good use of Bus Service Improvement money considering how much people in Ilkley make use of their cars in part due to poor bus links.
The 962 would also be changed to run via Bolling Road and Wheatley Road avoiding Leeds Road traffic and keeping a bus service on Bolling Road and would no longer interwork with the existing 961.
Each driver on Ilkley town routes would also have a 30 minute break in Ilkley every 90 minutes on an all day cycle meaning driver breaks are covered too.
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Post by Bradford Traveller on May 5, 2024 10:27:18 GMT 1
Ilkley locals are changing this month, but I have not got details.
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Post by deerfold on May 5, 2024 12:19:42 GMT 1
Ilkley locals are changing this month, but I have not got details. Times for the 961 and 962 and in bustimes.org Though I suspect this is the wrong thread for this.
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