|
Post by stephen01 on Jun 10, 2022 12:00:21 GMT 1
Looking at what Arriva are saying the proposed "new/revised" offer is would just about bring to level with Transdev but difference been with Transdev you've got the £1k welcome bonus. Now Unite have actually come out and said they actually put it to members to put the offer to Ballot but that was rejected which as result in proceeding with the strike. But NHS are in same boat in parts and actually in the last statement we got told we'd get an increase but that was only 1% which is only a few pence in all practuality. Of the "big three" Transdev & First have been regularly investing in the Yorkshire Fleets but Arriva have only done it every so often so excluding Streetdeck Order which ended up incomplete with the Wrightbus situation at the time the last big investments were the 15 reg e400s (4 of which have since gone up to ANE and before that are the 14 plate e200 minis with the biggest one been in 2008 with the e400s 1900-1913 (some of which have gone to ANE), The Eclipses and Olympuses 1800-1815 (all sadly gone down south). Other then that there's been the investments of Geminis 1508-1548 in 2011 (although several have gone to ANE but we gained 4 in exchange for e400s 1915-1918) and the the Pulsars 1456-1495 in 2012 you only had the tempos and standard e200s in 2009. You can see why drivers have rejected the offer in a way as it show's investment isn't priorty especially with First investing behind the scenes and Transdev even investing in there depots and station breakout areas and refurbishing them. All Arriva have had changed is the Logo in last couple of years and the uniform changing to be a mix of Polos & shirts with light shell jackets. So the question is if First & Transdev can still invest and still make profit why can't Arriva? The last big investment was the 17 reg MMC Enviro 400’s, not the 15 plate Enviro 400’s didnt include them as technically the only came in due to the Leeds CAZ scheme.
|
|
|
Post by stephen01 on Jun 10, 2022 12:06:28 GMT 1
Looking at what Arriva are saying the proposed "new/revised" offer is would just about bring to level with Transdev but difference been with Transdev you've got the £1k welcome bonus. Now Unite have actually come out and said they actually put it to members to put the offer to Ballot but that was rejected which as result in proceeding with the strike. But NHS are in same boat in parts and actually in the last statement we got told we'd get an increase but that was only 1% which is only a few pence in all practuality. Of the "big three" Transdev & First have been regularly investing in the Yorkshire Fleets but Arriva have only done it every so often so excluding Streetdeck Order which ended up incomplete with the Wrightbus situation at the time the last big investments were the 15 reg e400s (4 of which have since gone up to ANE and before that are the 14 plate e200 minis with the biggest one been in 2008 with the e400s 1900-1913 (some of which have gone to ANE), The Eclipses and Olympuses 1800-1815 (all sadly gone down south). Other then that there's been the investments of Geminis 1508-1548 in 2011 (although several have gone to ANE but we gained 4 in exchange for e400s 1915-1918) and the the Pulsars 1456-1495 in 2012 you only had the tempos and standard e200s in 2009. You can see why drivers have rejected the offer in a way as it show's investment isn't priorty especially with First investing behind the scenes and Transdev even investing in there depots and station breakout areas and refurbishing them. All Arriva have had changed is the Logo in last couple of years and the uniform changing to be a mix of Polos & shirts with light shell jackets. So the question is if First & Transdev can still invest and still make profit why can't Arriva? I don't seem to see what investments first are making? If you're referring the streetdecks, I'm pretty sure they were bought by the council and not first bus. Thought it was only the P&R vehicles (current Streetdecks on PR1 & PR2 and the e400citys for PR3), 5 electricbus and the flexibus vehicles that are part owned by the council. The rest of the Streetdecks and the e400MMC Flywheels (usually for X84) haven't had LCC funding or Metro funding.
|
|
|
Post by westyorkshirebus on Jun 10, 2022 14:28:00 GMT 1
Looking at what Arriva are saying the proposed "new/revised" offer is would just about bring to level with Transdev but difference been with Transdev you've got the £1k welcome bonus. Now Unite have actually come out and said they actually put it to members to put the offer to Ballot but that was rejected which as result in proceeding with the strike. But NHS are in same boat in parts and actually in the last statement we got told we'd get an increase but that was only 1% which is only a few pence in all practuality. Of the "big three" Transdev & First have been regularly investing in the Yorkshire Fleets but Arriva have only done it every so often so excluding Streetdeck Order which ended up incomplete with the Wrightbus situation at the time the last big investments were the 15 reg e400s (4 of which have since gone up to ANE and before that are the 14 plate e200 minis with the biggest one been in 2008 with the e400s 1900-1913 (some of which have gone to ANE), The Eclipses and Olympuses 1800-1815 (all sadly gone down south). Other then that there's been the investments of Geminis 1508-1548 in 2011 (although several have gone to ANE but we gained 4 in exchange for e400s 1915-1918) and the the Pulsars 1456-1495 in 2012 you only had the tempos and standard e200s in 2009. You can see why drivers have rejected the offer in a way as it show's investment isn't priorty especially with First investing behind the scenes and Transdev even investing in there depots and station breakout areas and refurbishing them. All Arriva have had changed is the Logo in last couple of years and the uniform changing to be a mix of Polos & shirts with light shell jackets. So the question is if First & Transdev can still invest and still make profit why can't Arriva? The last big investment was the 17 reg MMC Enviro 400’s, not the 15 plate Enviro 400’s Then after that there was the 69 plate Streetdecks Although what any of this has to do with the strike action I'm not sure
|
|
|
Post by stephen01 on Jun 10, 2022 19:17:34 GMT 1
The last big investment was the 17 reg MMC Enviro 400’s, not the 15 plate Enviro 400’s Then after that there was the 69 plate Streetdecks Although what any of this has to do with the strike action I'm not sure if you read my original post i excluded the Streetdeck as it was an incomplete order and was only been done due to the Leeds CAZ scheme like the 17 reg e400MMCs. The point i was making is that First & Transdev invest in their fleets & staff (including decent pay) and can still make a profit so why aren't Arriva doing the same. At present the only Arriva depot that will be getting any form of investment is Belle Isle and that's only due to the Zebra scheme.
|
|
|
Post by rwilkes on Jun 10, 2022 19:23:42 GMT 1
As Arriva never promote or publicise their services they can only decline The Financial Times had an article today saying bus use is up to fuel price increases
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2022 20:24:16 GMT 1
Then after that there was the 69 plate Streetdecks Although what any of this has to do with the strike action I'm not sure if you read my original post i excluded the Streetdeck as it was an incomplete order and was only been done due to the Leeds CAZ scheme like the 17 reg e400MMCs. The point i was making is that First & Transdev invest in their fleets & staff (including decent pay) and can still make a profit so why aren't Arriva doing the same. At present the only Arriva depot that will be getting any form of investment is Belle Isle and that's only due to the Zebra scheme. You could say the same of both Transdev & First - the only depots due to gain new buses this year & next are because of the Zebra funding & the Bradford LEZ (In fact in Transdevs case only the Mellors was bought for routes that didn't need an upgrade for LEZ purposes) Don't forget also both First & Transdev have had problems with their staff,either keeping hold of them or possible strikes (First Huddersfield had a vote a couple of months ago but it went in First favour) so their 'investments' still need improvements.As for making a profit thats subjective company to company as the likes of First & Arrvia want a higher profit return than the likes of Transdev,plus they also serve different areas (I Think its much easier for First to make a profit from Leeds compared to Arriva in Wakefield for example)
|
|
|
Post by stephen01 on Jun 10, 2022 20:53:46 GMT 1
if you read my original post i excluded the Streetdeck as it was an incomplete order and was only been done due to the Leeds CAZ scheme like the 17 reg e400MMCs. The point i was making is that First & Transdev invest in their fleets & staff (including decent pay) and can still make a profit so why aren't Arriva doing the same. At present the only Arriva depot that will be getting any form of investment is Belle Isle and that's only due to the Zebra scheme. You could say the same of both Transdev & First - the only depots due to gain new buses this year & next are because of the Zebra funding & the Bradford LEZ (In fact in Transdevs case only the Mellors was bought for routes that didn't need an upgrade for LEZ purposes) Don't forget also both First & Transdev have had problems with their staff,either keeping hold of them or possible strikes (First Huddersfield had a vote a couple of months ago but it went in First favour) so their 'investments' still need improvements.As for making a profit thats subjective company to company as the likes of First & Arrvia want a higher profit return than the likes of Transdev,plus they also serve different areas (I Think its much easier for First to make a profit from Leeds compared to Arriva in Wakefield for example) Apart from Zebra scheme both Transdev & First are investing in the vehicles and behind the scenes for Staff yet Arriva haven't been. Yes there's been strikes by First but when leeds went on strike a few routes got covered as some crossed over with Arriva & Transdev routes. When First Huddersfield went on Strike again most of the routes had cross other woth other operators. The majority of Arriva's network has been stranded this time round as when Arriva last went on strike the drafted in temp drivers from other depots and the management "mucked in". Again First & Transdev show passion for the communities and work closely with them where as Arriva barely do. First started updating and investing heavily in the fleets in 2012 and Transdev started earlier. Also Transdev purchsed the Mellor Stratas for the routes they'd won back from TLC and were winding down the MPDs.
|
|
|
Post by westyorkshirebus on Jun 10, 2022 21:38:23 GMT 1
The strike has nothing to do with how many new buses companies have purchased. I’m not sure why you keep making this point. The staff aren’t striking because the streetdeck order was curtailed. The Arriva Yorkshire fleet is hardly ancient.
‘investment’ and ‘salaries’ are completely different considerations, in fact they could be described as the complete opposite. The more overheads you have the less profit left to invest.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2022 22:16:11 GMT 1
You could say the same of both Transdev & First - the only depots due to gain new buses this year & next are because of the Zebra funding & the Bradford LEZ (In fact in Transdevs case only the Mellors was bought for routes that didn't need an upgrade for LEZ purposes) Don't forget also both First & Transdev have had problems with their staff,either keeping hold of them or possible strikes (First Huddersfield had a vote a couple of months ago but it went in First favour) so their 'investments' still need improvements.As for making a profit thats subjective company to company as the likes of First & Arrvia want a higher profit return than the likes of Transdev,plus they also serve different areas (I Think its much easier for First to make a profit from Leeds compared to Arriva in Wakefield for example) Apart from Zebra scheme both Transdev & First are investing in the vehicles and behind the scenes for Staff yet Arriva haven't been. Yes there's been strikes by First but when leeds went on strike a few routes got covered as some crossed over with Arriva & Transdev routes. When First Huddersfield went on Strike again most of the routes had cross other woth other operators. The majority of Arriva's network has been stranded this time round as when Arriva last went on strike the drafted in temp drivers from other depots and the management "mucked in". Again First & Transdev show passion for the communities and work closely with them where as Arriva barely do. First started updating and investing heavily in the fleets in 2012 and Transdev started earlier. Also Transdev purchsed the Mellor Stratas for the routes they'd won back from TLC and were winding down the MPDs. BIB - If your meaning refurbishments then Arriva have also done vehicle refurbishments over the past few years (The Tempos & Eclipses) - The main difference between Arriva & the First strikes is this includes the maintenance staff (someone correct me if i'm wrong,but the First strikes was just drivers?) so First could still operate unlike Arriva. I'm not sure what having 'passion for the community' has to do with the strike? I Doubt if Arriva did twitter videos of what cafes are on the 229 for example,it would of made any difference to the drivers. You mentioned First investing heavily in the fleet during 2012 - are your forgetting that same year Arriva introduced over 80 new vehicles to Yorkshire?
|
|
|
Post by selbybus on Jun 11, 2022 12:43:51 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by stephen01 on Jun 11, 2022 13:30:09 GMT 1
Apart from Zebra scheme both Transdev & First are investing in the vehicles and behind the scenes for Staff yet Arriva haven't been. Yes there's been strikes by First but when leeds went on strike a few routes got covered as some crossed over with Arriva & Transdev routes. When First Huddersfield went on Strike again most of the routes had cross other woth other operators. The majority of Arriva's network has been stranded this time round as when Arriva last went on strike the drafted in temp drivers from other depots and the management "mucked in". Again First & Transdev show passion for the communities and work closely with them where as Arriva barely do. First started updating and investing heavily in the fleets in 2012 and Transdev started earlier. Also Transdev purchsed the Mellor Stratas for the routes they'd won back from TLC and were winding down the MPDs. BIB - If your meaning refurbishments then Arriva have also done vehicle refurbishments over the past few years (The Tempos & Eclipses) - The main difference between Arriva & the First strikes is this includes the maintenance staff (someone correct me if i'm wrong,but the First strikes was just drivers?) so First could still operate unlike Arriva. I'm not sure what having 'passion for the community' has to do with the strike? I Doubt if Arriva did twitter videos of what cafes are on the 229 for example,it would of made any difference to the drivers. You mentioned First investing heavily in the fleet during 2012 - are your forgetting that same year Arriva introduced over 80 new vehicles to Yorkshire? Again i've already mentioned the Geminis & Pulsars. Only the Eclipses & the Tempos that didn't go to Tiger all got "max" spec whilst the odd 09 reg e200 did. A selction of the Geminis at Heckmondwike got upgrade to MAX and all Selby's Geminis for 415 got upgraded to Sapphire as did 1546. All Dewsbury's Pulsars got repainted bar 1495 as did all the e200 but none had the seats sorted
|
|
|
Post by cwtransportphotos on Jun 11, 2022 18:34:08 GMT 1
BIB - If your meaning refurbishments then Arriva have also done vehicle refurbishments over the past few years (The Tempos & Eclipses) - The main difference between Arriva & the First strikes is this includes the maintenance staff (someone correct me if i'm wrong,but the First strikes was just drivers?) so First could still operate unlike Arriva. I'm not sure what having 'passion for the community' has to do with the strike? I Doubt if Arriva did twitter videos of what cafes are on the 229 for example,it would of made any difference to the drivers. You mentioned First investing heavily in the fleet during 2012 - are your forgetting that same year Arriva introduced over 80 new vehicles to Yorkshire? Again i've already mentioned the Geminis & Pulsars. Only the Eclipses & the Tempos that didn't go to Tiger all got "max" spec whilst the odd 09 reg e200 did. A selction of the Geminis at Heckmondwike got upgrade to MAX and all Selby's Geminis for 415 got upgraded to Sapphire as did 1546. All Dewsbury's Pulsars got repainted bar 1495 as did all the e200 but none had the seats sorted Stephen, A couple of things:-
- You keep reiterating the point that FWY had heavy investments starting in 2012, but when someone else points out that as did AY, you come back advising that you've already mentioned that. In that case, I'm not sure the point you're trying to make out. - The point you're making about how the 69 reg Streetdecks hardly being an investment cause of the issues at Wrightbus is irrelevant, due to the issues being no fault of Arrivas.
You need to make your mind up. Throughout this thread you keep complaining that Arriva has not done enough investing in its fleet, and then theres comments like the above where you're saying they have.
Also..... Investments in the fleet has nothing to do with the strike. I guarantee at least 80% of the drivers who work for Arriva couldn't give a toss which bus they're asked to drive...
|
|
joseph
Forum Member
Posts: 1,142
|
Post by joseph on Jun 11, 2022 20:12:18 GMT 1
I'm hoping the strike carries on way beyond Wednesday just for the pure interest to see how it affects everything going forward, and because I'm enjoying even less buses in Leeds centre making roads like Boar Lane quieter. I'm also really enjoying the freedom to cross Boar Lane straight away from alighting the park and ride, been able to do this a lot since the strike lol.
|
|
|
Post by selbybus on Jun 11, 2022 21:13:39 GMT 1
Hang on, wasn't you the same person a couple of months ago moaning at drivers, for not covering work at other depots? Weren't you having a go at drivers for striking when Stagecoach went on strike and lucky to be in a job and Telling them to go back to work? I'm sure if First went on strike, you'd change your tune wouldn't you? Yes that was me lol, but I've selfishly seen the benefits to me of this Arriva strike. If First went on strike, and I can't get to work, then it's something out of my control and I've learned recently that my employer will still pay me should I not be able to get to work for reasons outside my control so they can freely go on strike as I could do with extra holidays. I am annoyed however about the rail strike as planning a night out in early July with a friend down in the midlands who works down that way, so I'm now contemplating catching the coach, but that means holding in my urine for 3 hours on the way back, dam selfish these train drivers lol. Me, myself & I 🤦🏻♂️ And they moan at drivers wanting a better standard of living (how dare we)!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2022 21:27:25 GMT 1
I'm hoping the strike carries on way beyond Wednesday just for the pure interest to see how it affects everything going forward, and because I'm enjoying even less buses in Leeds centre making roads like Boar Lane quieter. I'm also really enjoying the freedom to cross Boar Lane straight away from alighting the park and ride, been able to do this a lot since the strike lol. You might be enjoying fewer buses in Leeds but a lot of people in Wakefield certainly aren't, personally I hope a sensible offer is made by Arriva on Wednesday & a settlement can be reached.
|
|
|
Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jun 11, 2022 21:46:20 GMT 1
Hang on, wasn't you the same person a couple of months ago moaning at drivers, for not covering work at other depots? Weren't you having a go at drivers for striking when Stagecoach went on strike and lucky to be in a job and Telling them to go back to work? I'm sure if First went on strike, you'd change your tune wouldn't you? Yes that was me lol, but I've selfishly seen the benefits to me of this Arriva strike. If First went on strike, and I can't get to work, then it's something out of my control and I've learned recently that my employer will still pay me should I not be able to get to work for reasons outside my control so they can freely go on strike as I could do with extra holidays. I am annoyed however about the rail strike as planning a night out in early July with a friend down in the midlands who works down that way, so I'm now contemplating catching the coach, but that means holding in my urine for 3 hours on the way back, dam selfish these train drivers lol. Another "advantage" of the strikes is that we as enthusiasts can see how Leeds & Huddersfield look as First / Transdev duopolies.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2022 8:09:59 GMT 1
Another "advantage" of the strikes is that we as enthusiasts can see how Leeds & Huddersfield look as First / Transdev duopolies. [/quote] it isn't an advantage if you can't get there from Arriva land to find out
|
|
|
Post by stephen01 on Jun 13, 2022 9:27:10 GMT 1
The 111 is the first service to be covered by another operator but is running as a free service as of today. Furthermore said operator is CT Plus
|
|
|
Post by stephen01 on Jun 13, 2022 10:37:40 GMT 1
The 111 is the first service to be covered by another operator but is running as a free service as of today. Furthermore said operator is CT Plus Would it have been possible for the Free City Bus to ever go up near Pinderfields, would ever that be logistically possible? Just a suggestion. the 111 is funded by Mid Yorkshire Hospital and partially by Metro. Also doing that wouldnt work as the 111 as full loadings even on full-sized single decks like the pulsars so to extend the WCB wouldn't work either as a) you'll end up removing 2 of the current stops, b) it would need the council & Wakefield BID to agree to work with Mid Yorks, c) the WCB is too busy as it is majority of the time and d) the timings will go to pot.
|
|
mattb7tl
Forum Member
Streetlites 🛐
Posts: 751
|
Post by mattb7tl on Jun 13, 2022 16:43:59 GMT 1
Anybody concerned about how this might affect bus usage in areas operated by Arriva? Can say for certain that people haven't been happy with the company for ages, this might be the thing which pushes a lot of people away from buses. I think even more routes might see frequency reductions
|
|
WYBS
Forum Member
Watch-o
Posts: 1,494
|
Post by WYBS on Jun 13, 2022 16:53:55 GMT 1
Anybody concerned about how this might affect bus usage in areas operated by Arriva? Can say for certain that people haven't been happy with the company for ages, this might be the thing which pushes a lot of people away from buses. I think even more routes might see frequency reductions Yes. A one or two day strike is one thing. Striking for an indefinite period of time whilst the service is at an all time low already due to driver shortages could possibly be crippling. Those who can afford private transport but choose to use bus may have thought bugger this, I'm buying a car. Others may start saving up for one as the current situation doesn't instil any faith in the average customer. If Arriva's strategy was already one of managed decline, then now it may be organising end of life care.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2022 17:03:15 GMT 1
Anybody concerned about how this might affect bus usage in areas operated by Arriva? Can say for certain that people haven't been happy with the company for ages, this might be the thing which pushes a lot of people away from buses. I think even more routes might see frequency reductions It could be 50/50 how things go,as if the strike does end this week they've been given the lifeline of the rail strike happening soon what could push people onto the buses alongside the cost of living/petrol prices rocketing (& predicted to get worse) meaning alot of people might not be able to afford their cars for much longer,so they could see an uplift in passengers at least temporarily until the petrol prices calm down.
|
|
|
Post by BusmanBry on Jun 13, 2022 18:22:43 GMT 1
I`d like to ask,
If the meeting between the union and whom ever it is from Arriva that attends goes in the unions favour on Wednesday. Does that mean that the buses will be running again Thursday?.
Cheers, Bryan.
|
|
|
Post by deerfold on Jun 13, 2022 21:21:57 GMT 1
I`d like to ask, If the meeting between the union and whom ever it is from Arriva that attends goes in the unions favour on Wednesday. Does that mean that the buses will be running again Thursday?. Cheers, Bryan. It's likely there would be a new ballot, possibly with the Union giving their advice on which way to vote.
|
|
Tom
Forum Member
Posts: 58
|
Post by Tom on Jun 14, 2022 11:31:17 GMT 1
|
|