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Post by gledhill56 on Aug 24, 2020 14:10:42 GMT 1
Funny as the roadworks were there when I went through last week.
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Aug 24, 2020 15:19:49 GMT 1
Funny as the roadworks were there when I went through last week. Yeah mate hilarious but they dont impact the service. It was the floodworks at Mytholmroyd that were the cause of severe delays due to their location and length.
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Post by gledhill56 on Aug 24, 2020 15:28:01 GMT 1
They are still doing the flood alleviation scheme. They’ve just moved along. Works got suspended due to Covid-19 and now 4 way lights.
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Aug 24, 2020 16:04:37 GMT 1
They are still doing the flood alleviation scheme. They’ve just moved along. Works got suspended due to Covid-19 and now 4 way lights. No they are not. I drive that road every day. Cant say what depot or what services because of technicalities but seeing as there are only two services that First operate down there it is fairly obvious.
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Post by dlspotter on Aug 24, 2020 16:28:52 GMT 1
Transdev Harrogate service changes: 36 - Times returning to mostly normal except late nights 1 - Times returning to mostly normal except late nights 2A, 2B, 3, 6 - Times returning to mostly normal 24 - New timetable, buses every 2 hours Monday-Saturday, no Sunday service
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Aug 24, 2020 19:47:20 GMT 1
I've just seen the new timetable for the 315, I was expecting one journey each way tied into the X49, however I wasn't expecting the following. One AM peak journey from Bradshaw Road via Honley Bridge and the main road to Huddersfield, and another two AM peak from Honley Bridge to Huddersfield. In the opposite direction, there is an AM and a PM peak journey from Huddersfield to Honley Bridge and Bradshaw Road, and another PM short from Huddersfield to Honley Bridge. With the extra buses from Halifax to Southowram, you have to wonder if South Pennine are sharpening their claws and thinking of taking on First.
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Post by Burnside on Aug 24, 2020 23:01:57 GMT 1
Can't see how South Pennine and their Transits would be competition for First. More likely the additional journeys are either for capacity or (more likely) positioning moves, getting vehicles in place for their next workings.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Aug 25, 2020 7:31:56 GMT 1
Can't see how South Pennine and their Transits would be competition for First. More likely the additional journeys are either for capacity or (more likely) positioning moves, getting vehicles in place for their next workings. But that's what the X49 was for so why suddenly split it off and use a similar number to First routes? Two of the AM journeys are positioning ones, ironically one working onto the X49 (why didn't they keep this as an X49 right through) but the other AM one journey does a return run during the morning peak, returning within 5 mins of reaching Huddersfield. You've also got to factor in that it's using a more direct route than the 308 from Bradshaw Road. Can't see First asking South Pennine to provide extra capacity, they'd simply provide it themselves.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Aug 25, 2020 11:12:14 GMT 1
A week out and no sign of the 164 timetable. Considering Arriva will be wanting to take market share off First you'd think they'd have the timetable and publicity ready! Using a combination of Metro, the operators and bustimes.org, as well as the 164 we are still waiting for Arriva's new 1,2,3 & 5 in Selby as well I suppose this is what happens when operators are still not required to give 56 days notice
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on Aug 25, 2020 18:05:37 GMT 1
Can't see how South Pennine and their Transits would be competition for First. More likely the additional journeys are either for capacity or (more likely) positioning moves, getting vehicles in place for their next workings. But that's what the X49 was for so why suddenly split it off and use a similar number to First routes? Two of the AM journeys are positioning ones, ironically one working onto the X49 (why didn't they keep this as an X49 right through) but the other AM one journey does a return run during the morning peak, returning within 5 mins of reaching Huddersfield. You've also got to factor in that it's using a more direct route than the 308 from Bradshaw Road. Can't see First asking South Pennine to provide extra capacity, they'd simply provide it themselves. Believe First are actually sub contracting additional capacity at school times out to other operators.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Aug 25, 2020 18:20:24 GMT 1
But that's what the X49 was for so why suddenly split it off and use a similar number to First routes? Two of the AM journeys are positioning ones, ironically one working onto the X49 (why didn't they keep this as an X49 right through) but the other AM one journey does a return run during the morning peak, returning within 5 mins of reaching Huddersfield. You've also got to factor in that it's using a more direct route than the 308 from Bradshaw Road. Can't see First asking South Pennine to provide extra capacity, they'd simply provide it themselves. Believe First are actually sub contracting additional capacity at school times out to other operators. Ah, but the new 315 will run throughout holidays as well so I'd say this isn't a sub contracted route. Can't understand why they are going to the expense of sub contracting, many routes either won't return to full frequency due to them hardly being used (the 65 for example is probably the best route in South Leeds to catch if you want to avoid the risk of Covid) or will stay withdrawn, thus there are some spare vehicles and drivers.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Aug 25, 2020 23:06:09 GMT 1
This is a lot of fuss over 1 extra round trip with a minivan. They've presumably got some spare capacity in their schedules, so might as well run a round trip. I'm sure First won't lose sleep over those 16 potential passengers they may lose.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Aug 26, 2020 8:22:59 GMT 1
This is a lot of fuss over 1 extra round trip with a minivan. They've presumably got some spare capacity in their schedules, so might as well run a round trip. I'm sure First won't lose sleep over those 16 potential passengers they may lose. It's not a lot of fuss, just a thought that they're maybe trying compete commercially with First? They have been running an X49 now for some time as positioning journeys, maybe these have been very successful and locals have asked them to run more often as well as at PM peak times, possibly why the re-numbering and additional journeys. Yes First won't lose sleep, but it's still not like South Pennine to try and compete directly, even if they are using a quicker route than the 308 for Bradshaw Road passengers. I've just seen the new X49 timetable, and even though the journeys are well spaced out, they are now offering two AM peak journeys to Brighouse (06.45 and 07.30) and two PM peak from Brighouse to Huddersfield (16.00 and 18.00). Yes these won't trouble First, but that's a significant increase in competing journeys.
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Aug 26, 2020 8:33:48 GMT 1
Believe First are actually sub contracting additional capacity at school times out to other operators. Ah, but the new 315 will run throughout holidays as well so I'd say this isn't a sub contracted route. Can't understand why they are going to the expense of sub contracting, many routes either won't return to full frequency due to them hardly being used (the 65 for example is probably the best route in South Leeds to catch if you want to avoid the risk of Covid) or will stay withdrawn, thus there are some spare vehicles and drivers. It's a lot harder than you think, there are far more journeys that need to be worried about than many may consider as normal services can only carry 50% so if you have school flows on normal services these simply can't be accommodated in many cases - and even some normal peak flows may be causing an issue, NX West Midlands are reporting passenger numbers as back to approx. 50% already in their area. My employers are barely larger than a single First Yorkshire depot and we, whilst being well short of normal service levels for September, are 2 PVR up on normal (we are providing around ten extra dupes and that is before you get to retimed services for changed times which no longer fit where they normally fit and have to be taken out) and are still left with about 20 duplicate journeys where cover is being arranged by local councils for school flows where we can't provide capacity. You then have the issue of drivers not returning, we saw a number of drivers leave at the start, and they may actually be short of drivers if they got back to normal service anyway. Multiply that up and you can see how the big companies simply will not have enough capacity to cover everything, though unlike smaller operators the big groups have special operations teams with operator contacts to help arrange the cover themselves rather than leaving it to the councils which makes it easier for them to retain the lost revenue of students moved to the duplicate.
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Aug 26, 2020 8:46:11 GMT 1
Ah, but the new 315 will run throughout holidays as well so I'd say this isn't a sub contracted route. Can't understand why they are going to the expense of sub contracting, many routes either won't return to full frequency due to them hardly being used (the 65 for example is probably the best route in South Leeds to catch if you want to avoid the risk of Covid) or will stay withdrawn, thus there are some spare vehicles and drivers. It's a lot harder than you think, there are far more journeys that need to be worried about than many may consider as normal services can only carry 50% so if you have school flows on normal services these simply can't be accommodated in many cases - and even some normal peak flows may be causing an issue, NX West Midlands are reporting passenger numbers as back to approx. 50% already in their area. My employers are barely larger than a single First Yorkshire depot and we, whilst being well short of normal service levels for September, are 2 PVR up on normal (we are providing around ten extra dupes and that is before you get to retimed services for changed times which no longer fit where they normally fit and have to be taken out) and are still left with about 20 duplicate journeys where cover is being arranged by local councils for school flows where we can't provide capacity. You then have the issue of drivers not returning, we saw a number of drivers leave at the start, and they may actually be short of drivers if they got back to normal service anyway. Multiply that up and you can see how the big companies simply will not have enough capacity to cover everything, though unlike smaller operators the big groups have special operations teams with operator contacts to help arrange the cover themselves rather than leaving it to the councils which makes it easier for them to retain the lost revenue of students moved to the duplicate. But South Pennine don't have any big vehicles so I still can't see them asking South Pennine, they'd turn to one of the private coach companies way before asking South Pennine. Several AM peak routes in Leeds are hardly used in my experience, so we have shed loads of capacity, Going way off topic, but relevant to sorting out capacity, I do think however that with the endless cycling lanes being built, the government and schools should insist their pupils cycle to school where safe to do so.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Aug 26, 2020 16:35:47 GMT 1
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Post by martinsfp on Aug 26, 2020 17:05:14 GMT 1
Interesting to see how different it could have been on the airport contracts if ‘lowest bid price’ was the only deciding factor!
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Post by sharksmith on Aug 26, 2020 17:39:30 GMT 1
It makes sense for all the airport routes to be under one operator.
I'm disappointed that Transdev weren't successful on the Shipley batch, with the 60, 662 and airport bus this batch would have built a good network of routes in Shipley and would have restored a bit of value to day tickets in the area, something which was lost when First gave up/lost the routes .
As it is, it's still going to need a Metro Day ticket to access all Shipley to Bradford route options with First, Transdev & TLC splitting the routes on this corridor.
I wonder if this kind of thing is even considered by Metro or if low cost trumps all. Monopolies may be a bad thing if all routes are commercial but surely in a tender situation a single operator is more desirable for the passengers benefit as long as fares are regulated.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Aug 26, 2020 18:02:36 GMT 1
I’d also assume from those lists that the 757 is a commercial service (which might also explain why Tiger were able to withdraw it fully in April and then not reinstate it)
The 532 had a massive 6 bidders, who knew it was so popular. I suppose it’s a very easy service for anyone to run.
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jst
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Post by jst on Aug 26, 2020 19:29:45 GMT 1
As it is, it's still going to need a Metro Day ticket to access all Shipley to Bradford route options with First, Transdev & TLC splitting the routes on this corridor. I wonder if this kind of thing is even considered by Metro or if low cost trumps all. Monopolies may be a bad thing if all routes are commercial but surely in a tender situation a single operator is more desirable for the passengers benefit as long as fares are regulated. Metro would no doubt prefer people to be on their tickets anyway!
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Post by leedsbusman on Aug 26, 2020 20:03:52 GMT 1
As it is, it's still going to need a Metro Day ticket to access all Shipley to Bradford route options with First, Transdev & TLC splitting the routes on this corridor. I wonder if this kind of thing is even considered by Metro or if low cost trumps all. Monopolies may be a bad thing if all routes are commercial but surely in a tender situation a single operator is more desirable for the passengers benefit as long as fares are regulated. Metro would no doubt prefer people to be on their tickets anyway! Metro doesn’t have its ‘own tickets’ other than concession passes.
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Post by stephen01 on Aug 26, 2020 20:04:23 GMT 1
According to the Leeds Bradford Airport one there's X2 routes from the Airport to Harrogate 747 (as current) and a 767 that runs only between airport and Harrogate but Transdev have only announced 3 routes on Flyer info
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Aug 26, 2020 20:09:49 GMT 1
According to the Leeds Bradford Airport one there's X2 routes from the Airport to Harrogate 747 (as current) and a 767 that runs only between airport and Harrogate but Transdev have only announced 3 routes on Flyer info The 767 is the Harrogate to LBA route that both Tiger and Transdev opt to run as a linked service through to Bradford, it used to be separate when Transdev had it before
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Post by deerfold on Aug 26, 2020 21:51:15 GMT 1
The number of bids is often higher than the number of bidders - companies may submit more than one bid, there's combined bids for multiple contracts or they submit one compliant with all aspects of the tender and then some with suggested variations where they think they can be much cheaper for a slightly worse service or slightly more expensive for a much better service.
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Post by deerfold on Aug 26, 2020 21:56:14 GMT 1
I wonder if this kind of thing is even considered by Metro or if low cost trumps all. Monopolies may be a bad thing if all routes are commercial but surely in a tender situation a single operator is more desirable for the passengers benefit as long as fares are regulated. Metro are not allowed to use that as a criterion. I'd agree it'd be a good thing - I used to live in Ripponden where there's 3 operators along the same road with a combined maximum frequency of less than 2bph.
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