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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jun 17, 2017 18:55:02 GMT 1
Changes to the 770/771 posted on the Harrogate Bus website. As well as the confirmation of the re-numbering, new buses with WiFi and USB charging will be introduced. harrogatebus.co.uk/news.jsp?newsID=2015I reckon these will be Volvo B5TLs with Wright Gemini 3 bodywork as per recent double decks to route 36 and Coastliner services.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jun 17, 2017 19:23:16 GMT 1
More likely to be B7RLEs cascaded off the Mainline
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A1YBG
Forum Member
METRO Here to get you there. Arriva Buses Here to get you there. Arriva need to get original slogans
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Post by A1YBG on Jun 17, 2017 19:58:51 GMT 1
More likely to be B7RLEs cascaded off the Mainline There is a photo on Twitter showing a an mainline B7RLE Being refurbished for " A relaunched route". Plus the link says exciting Newer buses not new ones.
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Post by northerner on Jun 17, 2017 20:48:27 GMT 1
Transdev Keighley have announced a raft of service cuts with effect from July 23rd: keighleybus.co.uk/news.jsp?newsID=2017In summary, 62 is curtailed to operate Keighley-Ilkley-Otley. A number of early morning / evening journeys withdrawn on the K series of routes, last 662 withdrawn and a couple of journeys on Brontebus are axed. 696/697/698 are to become 67, 68 and 69 with evening service being every 2 hours. Re-routed in Bradford City Centre. 760 becomes 60 with the last journeys withdrawn Sunday-Thursday Pity about the cuts but useful to be prepared for the new route numbers. Quite a bit has changed in recent years with the B and K routes too. Indeed, a lot has changed over the last year or so! I think now would be a good time to completely relaunch the network. Make significant changes in one go then have a period of stability rather than renumber a route to change the timetable a few weeks later.
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Post by Burnside on Jun 17, 2017 23:01:18 GMT 1
A network relaunch could also be a way of increasing work in Keighley while reducing subsidy from metro to tlc for some routes. For example, reroute 1xK1 per hour to run via the 716 route to raynham cres on way to/from Laycock or reroute a K9 to cover as much of the 715 as possible. If run commercially could see metro cancel TLC's tenders and get Transdev back into more parts of Keighley.
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Post by northerner on Jun 18, 2017 10:07:11 GMT 1
That would make sense, and could also help to increase ridership as Transdev only tickets would then have more value. Now the 760 runs down Dalton Lane there isn't a need for the 729 to run down there. Personally I would re-route the 708 after Aireworth Road to go down the bypass then up Bradford Road to town, recreating the link between Riddlesden and the railway station/Asda/College. The 729 could then serve Parkwood Street, albeit every 2 hours.
A lot more can be achieved without increasing the resources required. If you look at the K7 that has a 15 minute layover between trips. By reducing this to something more sensible, along with other routes that have long layovers additional journeys can be added in
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SF07
Forum Member
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Post by SF07 on Jun 18, 2017 10:11:24 GMT 1
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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Jun 18, 2017 10:30:28 GMT 1
I'd keep the 15 minute layover on the K7 because it doesn't take much for traffic to be a problem around the bus station area, especially inbound on the K7.
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Post by Burnside on Jun 18, 2017 11:01:42 GMT 1
Here's my thoughts.
Replace the 715 with a rerouted K9, but with Goulbourne St and Upper Hird St covered by a rerouted K6 (with a K7 every 15 minutes, it's not gonna be missed on Oakworth Rd).
Replace the 716 with a rerouted K1. Maintain the existing 30 minute frequency on the K1 and hourly service on the 716 route by running both K1 journeys as a circular, so one goes out via K1 route and back via 716 and the other vice versa. Actually improves the service on the 716 route by allowing passengers who have just missed the bus at Keighley going out via the 716 route to use the next K1 to Laycock and get off at their stop on the way INTO town.
If the 708 was to be rerouted as suggested by Northerner, an hourly service could be maintained along Parkwood St, either by diverting one of the K5's per hour or the K10.
Obviously, not all of the work TLC have in Keighley could be covered commercially, such as the 915-918, nor is this meant as a dig at TLC. It's more to show how a few tweaks to Transdev's services could save Metro money and provide better links and services in town.
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Post by neukit on Jun 18, 2017 12:39:41 GMT 1
I very much doubt that Transdev (or any other commercial operator) is likely to consider bolting on the crumbs from some largely dire tendered services to 'improve' their commercial offerings! Most of the better operators around the country, have gradually understood that simple routes, that don't have lots of random variations are the ones that are most likely to produce passenger growth - or at least, stem the decline!
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Post by northerner on Jun 18, 2017 18:55:55 GMT 1
Here's my thoughts. Replace the 715 with a rerouted K9, but with Goulbourne St and Upper Hird St covered by a rerouted K6 (with a K7 every 15 minutes, it's not gonna be missed on Oakworth Rd). Replace the 716 with a rerouted K1. Maintain the existing 30 minute frequency on the K1 and hourly service on the 716 route by running both K1 journeys as a circular, so one goes out via K1 route and back via 716 and the other vice versa. Actually improves the service on the 716 route by allowing passengers who have just missed the bus at Keighley going out via the 716 route to use the next K1 to Laycock and get off at their stop on the way INTO town. If the 708 was to be rerouted as suggested by Northerner, an hourly service could be maintained along Parkwood St, either by diverting one of the K5's per hour or the K10. Obviously, not all of the work TLC have in Keighley could be covered commercially, such as the 915-918, nor is this meant as a dig at TLC. It's more to show how a few tweaks to Transdev's services could save Metro money and provide better links and services in town. I remember quite a few years ago the 707 to Fell Lane went via Goulbourne Street. This was when the service was every 15 minutes with alternative journeys running as 706 via Oakworth Road. When the service was reduced to every 20 minutes all journeys ran as 707 but there were complaints it lost the link between Oakworth Road Health Centre and Fell Lane, so then it became 2 706 an hour and 1 707, so not sure rerouting all journeys would help The K10 is already a long winded route, although there would be some benefit to running it via Parkwood Street in that parts of Bracken Bank/Ingrow/Spring Bank get a direct link to the railway station and would probably be quicker than walking from the Bus Station or changing on to a 662 in town. The K network is a bit of an awkward one in that a lot of people tend to walk downhill in to town but ride back up. In a lot of cases a taxi isn't much more expensive than the bus and if 2 people are together the taxi is nearly always cheaper. Factor in the usual Friday chaos with delays and cancellations there isn't really much incentive to use the bus. With the current cuts in public spending bus companies should be trying everything possible to deliver more for less, and with some tweaks here and there 1 bus could easily be removed without a significant reduction in service
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jun 18, 2017 20:40:09 GMT 1
Why is there a suggestion that the daytime commercial network is in need of trimming all of a sudden?
Seems a strange topic all of a sudden
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Post by deerfold on Jun 18, 2017 21:51:00 GMT 1
Why is there a suggestion that the daytime commercial network is in need of trimming all of a sudden? Seems a strange topic all of a sudden Well, Transdev are starting to do it - the 62 trimmed between Harrogate and Otley all day, Several routes are having cuts in the mornings and evenings - trips as late as 0750 and as early as 1740 (and one fom Leeming at 1618) - that's what most people would regard as the edges of the daytime services - if they're not safe, what is?
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jun 18, 2017 23:16:55 GMT 1
Why is there a suggestion that the daytime commercial network is in need of trimming all of a sudden? Seems a strange topic all of a sudden Well, Transdev are starting to do it - the 62 trimmed between Harrogate and Otley all day, Several routes are having cuts in the mornings and evenings - trips as late as 0750 and as early as 1740 (and one fom Leeming at 1618) - that's what most people would regard as the edges of the daytime services - if they're not safe, what is? Yes I know that but it seems a strange response to being outraged about some cuts, by suggesting they should axe entire services whilst they are at it. "If they can't run the last bus at 1800 they should run any at all"
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Post by northerner on Jun 19, 2017 20:29:18 GMT 1
Who is outraged? It's not the Daily Mail!
The bus network around Keighley is obviously in need of some tweaking, otherwise Transdev wouldn't be reducing their services. When you look at the services as there are now there is a lot of potential to do more with the same, and reduce the cost of providing bus services to the taxpayer
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jun 19, 2017 20:41:30 GMT 1
Why would Transdev compromise their commercial network to integrate parts of the tendered network to do Metro a favour?
I still don't get the link between knocking off a few evening journeys and axing a short lived link, to the possibility of changing the long established commercial town network?
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Post by northerner on Jun 19, 2017 22:32:26 GMT 1
If sections of tendered routes can be incorporated in to the commercial network surely that's a good thing? Metro have more money to spend elsewhere (or even better the money is reallocated to more worthwhile causes such as the NHS/education/defence). It could also mean areas that lose services from mid afternoon gain later services and therefore improves access to public transport for more communities
Transdev have made many changes over the last year to 18 months, which suggests instability. Now would be a good time to start again with a blank canvas and remap a new network which benefits passengers, the operators and Metro. As I've said before there's plenty of potential passengers still around after 6pm - dozens arrive off trains who could continue their journey by bus - if the service existed
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Post by neukit on Jun 19, 2017 23:00:18 GMT 1
If sections of tendered routes can be incorporated in to the commercial network surely that's a good thing? Metro have more money to spend elsewhere (or even better the money is reallocated to more worthwhile causes such as the NHS/education/defence). It could also mean areas that lose services from mid afternoon gain later services and therefore improves access to public transport for more communities Transdev have made many changes over the last year to 18 months, which suggests instability. Now would be a good time to start again with a blank canvas and remap a new network which benefits passengers, the operators and Metro. As I've said before there's plenty of potential passengers still around after 6pm - dozens arrive off trains who could continue their journey by bus - if the service existed I, for one, would be intrigued to hear all these wonderful suggestions that would improve the commercial bus network in the Keighley area.
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Post by SCH117X on Jun 20, 2017 21:54:53 GMT 1
Service reductions are not restricted to Keighley. The last 24 each way between Harrogate and Pateley Bridge is being axed - 1830 from Harrogate and 1930 from Pateley and on Sundays will now only run during BST, the Sunday before the late May bank holiday, to the Sunday after the late summer bank holiday. In the past funding has been found, not necessarily from NYCC, for winter Sunday journeys so time will tell whether the Sunday cuts takes place - possibly likely in the current expenditure cuts environment that no funding arise.
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Post by northerner on Jun 20, 2017 22:23:20 GMT 1
If sections of tendered routes can be incorporated in to the commercial network surely that's a good thing? Metro have more money to spend elsewhere (or even better the money is reallocated to more worthwhile causes such as the NHS/education/defence). It could also mean areas that lose services from mid afternoon gain later services and therefore improves access to public transport for more communities Transdev have made many changes over the last year to 18 months, which suggests instability. Now would be a good time to start again with a blank canvas and remap a new network which benefits passengers, the operators and Metro. As I've said before there's plenty of potential passengers still around after 6pm - dozens arrive off trains who could continue their journey by bus - if the service existed I, for one, would be intrigued to hear all these wonderful suggestions that would improve the commercial bus network in the Keighley area. The obvious one is spacing of services. Take the current evening service towards Ingrow and Cross Roads. Brontebus leaves at 05 and 35, with the 697 at 00. If the 697 was moved 10 minutes earlier it creates a better spacing which might actually be attractive to people. The evening K7 and K9 are the same. There's some areas which are within a few minutes walk from either route. The K9 leaves at 52 and the K7 at 00. Rerouting Brontebus on an evening to cover the K10 route as far as Haincliffe Road would improve access to the bus for more people. On Sundays the M4 and 66 run within minutes of each other from Cross Hills to Keighley. Not exactly passenger friendly. With the last K1 leaving at a very early 1730 look to reroute the K3 to cover parts of Black Hill after this time - perhaps reverting to the old 702/703 routes before the 2004 relaunch The daytime services aren't too bad, although I think more effort should be made to link the bus station to the railway station and college whether that's by rerouting a couple of local services or allowing free travel on the 662 from anywhere within the K Zone.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jun 20, 2017 23:46:08 GMT 1
Transdev have made many changes over the last year to 18 months, which suggests instability. Have they? If you exclude the renumberings, what exactly have all the major changes in Keighley been? They've tried some improvements that haven't all worked but they were all new changes that went back to normal afterwards. The town minibus network is probably exactly the same as it was 10 years ago. If you want unstable, try Blackburn, they have major rewrites every year.
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Post by northerner on Jun 21, 2017 7:00:27 GMT 1
Since 2015 there have been quite a few changes. The 762/765 has gone to just 762, then January 2016 the Harrogate extension was added. July 2016 route was renumbered then July 2017 Harrogate extension withdrawn. 4 changes in under 2 years
662 was changed in October 2015, September 2016, February 2017 and July 2017
66 changed in August 2015, September 2016, February 2017, July 2017
I don't understand the reluctance on here to accept how bad the buses are across West Yorkshire and why wanting more people to use the bus is a bad thing
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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Jun 21, 2017 7:48:27 GMT 1
One thing that clearly puts a lot of people off travelling to Harrogate on the 62 is the length of time it takes to get there, even from Ilkley. The 662 although shorter is stop after stop after stop and even from somewhere like Saltaire it's still a drag for your average user. The 696/7 are a drag for Cullingworth users to Bradford and Denholme users to both Bradford and Keighley. Basically what I'm getting at is the need for more express services that are cheaper than the train.
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Post by deerfold on Jun 21, 2017 9:30:19 GMT 1
One thing that clearly puts a lot of people off travelling to Harrogate on the 62 is the length of time it takes to get there, even from Ilkley. The 662 although shorter is stop after stop after stop and even from somewhere like Saltaire it's still a drag for your average user. The 696/7 are a drag for Cullingworth users to Bradford and Denholme users to both Bradford and Keighley. Basically what I'm getting at is the need for more express services that are cheaper than the train. Where are these expresses going to go that's a faster route whilst still picking up some passengers?
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Post by gooderson1 on Jun 21, 2017 10:01:29 GMT 1
Routes, times and cutting journeys will continue until the politicians do something about the illegal parking, constant roadworks of one kind or another, etc
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