SF07
Forum Member
Posts: 3,216
|
Post by SF07 on Mar 30, 2013 15:12:04 GMT 1
Wrong holiday at the moment to be thinking of Boxing Day, but WYITA have been reviewing the Boxing Day buses and analysing the services for 2013. WYITA report that demand for the services hasn't developed sufficiently for them to operate commercially and that requests to extend the network to other major centres have not happened because 'the level of commitment and publicity for Boxing Day shopping was insufficient to justify an extension of the network at significant additional cost'. Reviewing the performance of last year's services, fare revenue were increased by 22% as fares were increased from £3 to £4, however patronage decreased by 2.3%. This meant that net cost for running services was reduced by 12.4% meaning that the net subsidy was £1.15 per passenger. The £4 day ticket will likely to remain unchanged, although the introduction of a single fare at £2 has been advised. For 2013, WYITA report that services in Leeds may be boosted by the recent opening of Trinity Leeds. The 72 and 202/203 (Dewsbury-Leeds section) are proposed to be increased to run every 15 minutes. This is due to complaints of overcrowding on some journeys on the 72 and between Leeds and White Rose Centre. Huddersfield will see a significant reduction of services with the 302, 328, 370 and 372 remaining along with a re-routed 503 via Huddersfield Royal Infirmary (possibly as 501). This would see services 81, 82, 185, 306, 314, 324 and 363 withdrawn (72 will probably switch to Bramley depot). WYITA are looking at trying to improve connections with the hospitals with the 501/503 linking Calderdale/Huddersfield Royal Infirmaries. The 617 has been proposed to operate in 2013, running half-hourly between Bradford Royal Infirmary and the city centre. The 136 has been proposed to terminate near Pontefract Hospital and the 444 re-routed to serve Pinderfields Hospital. www.wyita.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/4A2C1369-BCC7-4E49-85E7-E033AF0E3B92/0/BSSC19March2013Item7BoxingDayBusServices.pdf
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2013 17:20:05 GMT 1
So it looks like 324 has been withdrawn,looks like im not going out until 27th then
|
|
|
Post by sharksmith on Mar 30, 2013 19:52:25 GMT 1
What's the point of running a 617 from Bradford to the hospital with no other routes, are the folks of Buttershaw, Holme Wood, Shipley etc supposed to walk into the city centre to catch this? With the 363 withdrawn even West Bowling and Wibsey residents who might have walked to Odsal or Manchester Road will no longer be able to connect.
|
|
|
Post by Kenton Schweppes on Mar 31, 2013 11:00:50 GMT 1
I always thought the Boxing Day services were a decent success. Although I must say the £4 flat fare is just bonkers. I caught the 372 home after the football match last Boxing Day, a bloke got on, the bus driver told it was £4 and he said he was only "going to Moldgreen", in the end he just went and sat down without paying and the driver just drove the bus. Its hardly attracting people to use the service is it, the £4 fare? Is it any wonder patronage decreased at £4 a shot?
Personally, I really don't see why Boxing Day should be any different from any other operating day. Just because its Christmas and a bank holiday, people still need to get about,visiting relatives,hospital visits,the shops are open and not to mention West Yorkshire has 3 professional football clubs whose fans travel by public transport,football is a Boxing Day tradition. And I don't see why there can't be train services either on Boxing Day too, they operate on New Years Day so why not Boxing day?
As I've said many many times recently there needs to be a change of attitude to the operation of bus services in West Yorkshire. There is some fella in the Holmfirth area that operates a free service on Boxing Day off his own bat from Holmfirth to Huddersfield Royal Infirmary,maybe the bigger operators should take note!!!
|
|
BusNut
Forum Member
Posts: 153
|
Post by BusNut on Mar 31, 2013 14:08:35 GMT 1
I always thought the Boxing Day services were a decent success. Although I must say the £4 flat fare is just bonkers. I caught the 372 home after the football match last Boxing Day, a bloke got on, the bus driver told it was £4 and he said he was only "going to Moldgreen", in the end he just went and sat down without paying and the driver just drove the bus. Its hardly attracting people to use the service is it, the £4 fare? Is it any wonder patronage decreased at £4 a shot? Personally, I really don't see why Boxing Day should be any different from any other operating day. Just because its Christmas and a bank holiday, people still need to get about,visiting relatives,hospital visits,the shops are open and not to mention West Yorkshire has 3 professional football clubs whose fans travel by public transport,football is a Boxing Day tradition. And I don't see why there can't be train services either on Boxing Day too, they operate on New Years Day so why not Boxing day? As I've said many many times recently there needs to be a change of attitude to the operation of bus services in West Yorkshire. There is some fella in the Holmfirth area that operates a free service on Boxing Day off his own bat from Holmfirth to Huddersfield Royal Infirmary,maybe the bigger operators should take note!!! Indeed so and how come places like Sheffield can have a much more extensive network and only charge £1 for a flat fare ticket, with multi-operator and operator specific passes also been accepted. The situation in West Yorkshire just seems bonkers!
|
|
SF07
Forum Member
Posts: 3,216
|
Post by SF07 on Mar 31, 2013 17:08:57 GMT 1
In Manchester, the Boxing Day services operate commercially and last year saw an increase in the number of services, including a few services that don't run to Manchester or Trafford Centre, such as the 471 (Bolton-Rochdale), 409 (Rochdale-Ashton) and 330 (Ashton-Stockport). The operator day tickets were valid along with the System One all operator tickets.
Perhaps if extra services ran in West Yorkshire that link some of the towns (e.g. 126/127, 576) and the operator day tickets are valid (the off-peak FirstDay tickets in Calderdale/Huddersfield, Bradford or Leeds are cheaper than the £4 ticket), then maybe it would be more appealing for people to travel on Boxing Day. I'm sure that the new Trinity Leeds shopping centre will bring more people into the city centre, so they should look at improving the links from the neighbouring towns (extend the 760 to Keighley, run the X6 to provide a faster link from Bradford/Huddersfield)
|
|
|
Post by www.buseireann.ie on Mar 31, 2013 17:22:15 GMT 1
To be honest and I must stress this isn't a racist comment, To keep the cost of running these services down surely they can find a group of employees who aren't that bothered about Xmas (for example those who celebrate other religous events or people who just hate Xmas) and would be willing to work for normal rates over the Xmas/New Year period? In return they would be guaranteed to be allowed to take those days off at any time of the year for what ever they need them for, i.e for other religous celebrations. On a personal note about attitude to working over Xmas/New Year, it's a family and friends time, I'm not a driver myself by the way but in my line of work I have had to work the last 4 Xmas or New Year periods and am sick to the back teeth of having to be forced to do so, I'm refusing to do so this year and beyond. They'll find someone from some agency somewhere!
|
|
|
Post by Kenton Schweppes on Mar 31, 2013 18:04:22 GMT 1
To be honest and I must stress this isn't a racist comment, To keep the cost of running these services down surely they can find a group of employees who aren't that bothered about Xmas (for example those who celebrate other religous events or people who just hate Xmas) and would be willing to work for normal rates over the Xmas/New Year period? In return they would be guaranteed to be allowed to take those days off at any time of the year for what ever they need them for, i.e for other religous celebrations. On a personal note about attitude to working over Xmas/New Year, it's a family and friends time, I'm not a driver myself by the way but in my line of work I have had to work the last 4 Xmas or New Year periods and am sick to the back teeth of having to be forced to do so, I'm refusing to do so this year and beyond. They'll find someone from some agency somewhere! Unfortunately, its the nature of the beast I'm afraid. I don't see why people have a problem with working over Christmas, the drivers know that they are in the service business and will expect to work over the holiday period,if you don't want to work over the holidays don't apply for the job or find yourself a job where you can have Christmas off!!! Its not just bus drivers is it, shop workers,hospital workers,hospitality workers all have to keep their services and business' going over the festive period for some its their busiest time of the year. On your idea about paying plain time,Boxing Day is still a Bank Holiday,so its double time I'm afraid, religious or not,it's the law!!
|
|
kendall17
Forum Member
Justice for the 96!
Posts: 4,514
|
Post by kendall17 on Mar 31, 2013 19:41:50 GMT 1
With taxis now offering standard fares throughout the Christmas period, I could understand why people are against using the bus, especially with the frequencies being reduced and the fares being significantly increased.
I do think they are needed though, just a question needs asking about fares.
|
|
|
Post by www.buseireann.ie on Apr 1, 2013 0:48:27 GMT 1
To be honest and I must stress this isn't a racist comment, To keep the cost of running these services down surely they can find a group of employees who aren't that bothered about Xmas (for example those who celebrate other religous events or people who just hate Xmas) and would be willing to work for normal rates over the Xmas/New Year period? In return they would be guaranteed to be allowed to take those days off at any time of the year for what ever they need them for, i.e for other religous celebrations. On a personal note about attitude to working over Xmas/New Year, it's a family and friends time, I'm not a driver myself by the way but in my line of work I have had to work the last 4 Xmas or New Year periods and am sick to the back teeth of having to be forced to do so, I'm refusing to do so this year and beyond. They'll find someone from some agency somewhere! Unfortunately, its the nature of the beast I'm afraid. I don't see why people have a problem with working over Christmas, the drivers know that they are in the service business and will expect to work over the holiday period,if you don't want to work over the holidays don't apply for the job or find yourself a job where you can have Christmas off!!! Its not just bus drivers is it, shop workers,hospital workers,hospitality workers all have to keep their services and business' going over the festive period for some its their busiest time of the year. On your idea about paying plain time,Boxing Day is still a Bank Holiday,so its double time I'm afraid, religious or not,it's the law!! I must say I don't agree that just because you work in the service industry you have to work over Xmas/New Year. Surely it can be on a voulntary basis, I do have a big problem with working these periods, I work hard for the rest of the year doing many anti social hours, why the hell can't I see family and friends ovet this period like a lot of others can! Let someone who really hates being round their family/friends or doesn't celebrate Xmas work this period! I need a job because life says I have to earn money, I can't be fussy because jobs are scarce, I have to suffer anti socialness to do this job but if my job can easily be covered by someone else do I really have to suffer missing Xmas/New Year with loved ones?
|
|
|
Post by Kenton Schweppes on Apr 1, 2013 10:40:31 GMT 1
Where as I agree with you to a certain extent, unfortunately (I don't know what you do), but if you work in the service industry it's inevitable that you will have to work over the holiday period. I work for my local NHS trust and we operate a service over the festive period aside from the Bank Holidays,it's, unfortunately the way it is, things don't grind to a halt just because its Christmas and nor should the public transport network.
Could you not come to some arrangement with a colleague to split time of over Christmas with or come to some arrangement with your employer?
|
|
|
Post by dwarfer1979 on Apr 2, 2013 10:31:54 GMT 1
Unlike most service industries buses (and rail) are heavily unionised and there is no chance in hell that any operator could get the union to agree to either making Boxing Day compulsory (as a standard Bank Holiday) or in watering down the pay they receive (triple time or double time with a day off in lieu seems standard - most take the money) so getting the drivers will always be a constraint on how much can be run. It is a surprise that after the number of years they have been running they haven't been able to establish a decent passenger levels, Boxing Day services tend to take a couple of years to establish themselves at a point where they can be justified but most areas that have tried them seem to have managed to make a level of success even if it is as a week Sunday in passenger numbers, very few manage to go truly commercial (some are run commercially without being truly profitable) but most manage to be considered successful for business.
The bit I have never understood is why there are no buses on New Years Day, everywhere else I have been involved in it is a normal Sunday service but in West Yorkshire only the 757 runs - since Metro appear to have decided not to require their own tendered services to run then, as in many cases, the commercial operators have just taken their lead from their local authority - in most cases what the authority sets as base line will be conformed with for commercial provision but they will rarely exceed it so if the council say no service operators will tend to follow (I may try & persuade my boss next year but if no one else will I am unlikely to win the argument - I lost the argument on one of our operations on Good Friday running less than I wanted this year but I will try again next year).
|
|
|
Post by angrycommuter on Apr 2, 2013 15:43:44 GMT 1
Unlike most service industries buses (and rail) are heavily unionised and there is no chance in hell that any operator could get the union to agree to either making Boxing Day compulsory (as a standard Bank Holiday) or in watering down the pay they receive (triple time or double time with a day off in lieu seems standard - most take the money) so getting the drivers will always be a constraint on how much can be run. It is a surprise that after the number of years they have been running they haven't been able to establish a decent passenger levels, Boxing Day services tend to take a couple of years to establish themselves at a point where they can be justified but most areas that have tried them seem to have managed to make a level of success even if it is as a week Sunday in passenger numbers, very few manage to go truly commercial (some are run commercially without being truly profitable) but most manage to be considered successful for business. The bit I have never understood is why there are no buses on New Years Day, everywhere else I have been involved in it is a normal Sunday service but in West Yorkshire only the 757 runs - since Metro appear to have decided not to require their own tendered services to run then, as in many cases, the commercial operators have just taken their lead from their local authority - in most cases what the authority sets as base line will be conformed with for commercial provision but they will rarely exceed it so if the council say no service operators will tend to follow (I may try & persuade my boss next year but if no one else will I am unlikely to win the argument - I lost the argument on one of our operations on Good Friday running less than I wanted this year but I will try again next year). If, as a Centrebus employee, you feel that there are missed opportunities for the business, what reasons do the company give you for declining your ideas (Good Friday?)? Centrebus have many buses sitting idle on a Sunday meaning they are costing the company money (depreciation, lease, loan costs etc.). Why not register Sunday only commercial services to enhance what is on offer currently or to provide new services? Shops are as busy on a Sunday as they are on Saturdays and as it is a more concentrated period of time, usually 10am til 5pm, there must surely be opportunities out there for bus company's to use the resources they already have? A Sunday X6 perhaps or enhancing First/Arriva services to/from Leeds or White Rose?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2013 16:30:27 GMT 1
Unlike most service industries buses (and rail) are heavily unionised and there is no chance in hell that any operator could get the union to agree to either making Boxing Day compulsory (as a standard Bank Holiday) or in watering down the pay they receive (triple time or double time with a day off in lieu seems standard - most take the money) so getting the drivers will always be a constraint on how much can be run. It is a surprise that after the number of years they have been running they haven't been able to establish a decent passenger levels, Boxing Day services tend to take a couple of years to establish themselves at a point where they can be justified but most areas that have tried them seem to have managed to make a level of success even if it is as a week Sunday in passenger numbers, very few manage to go truly commercial (some are run commercially without being truly profitable) but most manage to be considered successful for business. The bit I have never understood is why there are no buses on New Years Day, everywhere else I have been involved in it is a normal Sunday service but in West Yorkshire only the 757 runs - since Metro appear to have decided not to require their own tendered services to run then, as in many cases, the commercial operators have just taken their lead from their local authority - in most cases what the authority sets as base line will be conformed with for commercial provision but they will rarely exceed it so if the council say no service operators will tend to follow (I may try & persuade my boss next year but if no one else will I am unlikely to win the argument - I lost the argument on one of our operations on Good Friday running less than I wanted this year but I will try again next year). If, as a Centrebus employee, you feel that there are missed opportunities for the business, what reasons do the company give you for declining your ideas (Good Friday?)? Centrebus have many buses sitting idle on a Sunday meaning they are costing the company money (depreciation, lease, loan costs etc.). Why not register Sunday only commercial services to enhance what is on offer currently or to provide new services? Shops are as busy on a Sunday as they are on Saturdays and as it is a more concentrated period of time, usually 10am til 5pm, there must surely be opportunities out there for bus company's to use the resources they already have? A Sunday X6 perhaps or enhancing First/Arriva services to/from Leeds or White Rose? I Agree with This post,Does anyone know what loadings on 757 Are like on NYD? - Surly not much as connecting buses are not running.I Always thought during January a Weekend Express service to Trafford Centre might work,i mean its the second largest shopping centre in UK - Do decent marketing (Posters on buses/In Bus Stations/Maybe at Main bus stops on the lead upto xmas,Let people buy through tickets on connecting buses to cut Loading Times.& Yes it might mean less people shop locally but at least there shopping! - no wonder boxing day services have failed,As someone who lives near Huddersfield,alot of people perfer to go to the likes of Leeds Or Manchester to shop & Alot of people dont even know the 363 Goes all the way to leeds on a Boxing Day,people just think its 202/203
|
|
SF07
Forum Member
Posts: 3,216
|
Post by SF07 on Apr 2, 2013 19:07:29 GMT 1
I Always thought during January a Weekend Express service to Trafford Centre might work,i mean its the second largest shopping centre in UK - Do decent marketing (Posters on buses/In Bus Stations/Maybe at Main bus stops on the lead upto xmas,Let people buy through tickets on connecting buses to cut Loading Times.& Yes it might mean less people shop locally but at least there shopping! - no wonder boxing day services have failed,As someone who lives near Huddersfield,alot of people perfer to go to the likes of Leeds Or Manchester to shop & Alot of people dont even know the 363 Goes all the way to leeds on a Boxing Day,people just think its 202/203 In Merseyside, Peoplesbus run a service from Maghull to Trafford Centre via Bootle and Liverpool, which runs on the first Saturday of the month and all Saturdays in December in the run-up to Christmas. Would be interesting to see a West Yorkshire company try something like this to the Trafford Centre. Fair point regarding the 363. While some people will probably know the situation with some services running through services, a lot will just see 363 Bradford and not realise it would go to Leeds. Same may apply with the 254/268 and 136/166 services.
|
|
|
Post by dwarfer1979 on Apr 3, 2013 9:08:44 GMT 1
If, as a Centrebus employee, you feel that there are missed opportunities for the business, what reasons do the company give you for declining your ideas (Good Friday?)? Centrebus have many buses sitting idle on a Sunday meaning they are costing the company money (depreciation, lease, loan costs etc.). Why not register Sunday only commercial services to enhance what is on offer currently or to provide new services? Shops are as busy on a Sunday as they are on Saturdays and as it is a more concentrated period of time, usually 10am til 5pm, there must surely be opportunities out there for bus company's to use the resources they already have? A Sunday X6 perhaps or enhancing First/Arriva services to/from Leeds or White Rose? I Agree with This post,Does anyone know what loadings on 757 Are like on NYD? - Surly not much as connecting buses are not running.I Always thought during January a Weekend Express service to Trafford Centre might work,i mean its the second largest shopping centre in UK - Do decent marketing (Posters on buses/In Bus Stations/Maybe at Main bus stops on the lead upto xmas,Let people buy through tickets on connecting buses to cut Loading Times.& Yes it might mean less people shop locally but at least there shopping! - no wonder boxing day services have failed,As someone who lives near Huddersfield,alot of people perfer to go to the likes of Leeds Or Manchester to shop & Alot of people dont even know the 363 Goes all the way to leeds on a Boxing Day,people just think its 202/203 There is a general adage in the bus & coach industry amongst the good operators that it is better to leave your vehicles idle if you can't get the right amount of money than be a busy fool running vehicles just to bring a bit of money in. The operating costs are higher on a Sunday than a Saturday or weekday (drivers are paid more and the more vehicles you run the greater supervisory & engineering cover is required increasing costs greatly) so you need more passengers on a Sunday to cover the costs than on a Saturday, the standing costs you mention are budgeted across whatever the normal operator level is in any case. I would agree with the comment that there are as many passengers on a Sunday as a Saturday but that was more a comment on the weakness of the Saturday than the likelihood of commercial Sundays (there are a number of even urban routes in the Home Counties which are commercial on weekdays & tendered on both Saturday & Sunday). The problem is that if you run services on a Sunday that you don't run during the week then there are issues of ticketing and passengers getting to know what is happening, it is difficult to advertise anywhere except on bus in West Yorkshire as Metro control the bus stop cases and it is difficult to get anything non-Metro in. I would like to see stronger Sunday services as I think that if you can get through the initial establishment costs as numbers build they can do well (but that is a risk and it won't always work), but it isn't my company or my money at risk and I don't have the access to the passenger numbers & financial performance to be able to judge whether my gut feelings are backed up by any actual facts. The Good Friday issue was that the local depot manager & area manager just wanted to run what they had in previous years and were unconvinced that anything more would be a success given the rural nature of their operations and since it was always a weak business case for doing it (it was as much that I wanted to use one or two of the buses that wouldn't have run on Good Friday as anything else) and we simply ran out of time before the registration to persuade colleagues of the merit of my weak case. The issue with the Trafford Centre is that it is over 50km from any useable point in West Yorkshire (& White Rose is actually quite well served from many points in West Yorkshire) so needs tachos & EU hours drivers, I don't know about any of the other companies in West Yorkshire but Centrebus don't really do that work anywhere in their operations (there is one EU hours duty in Lincolnshire worked by a part time driver that pre-dates the purchase of the company that just about justifies itself under the present operating regime) so such an operation would not be compatible with the current working conditions. These sort of workings are often tried but rarely succeed, and generally where they do it is by a smaller operator (like Poeplesbus) who have a more flexible workforce & pay conditions & lower operating costs.
|
|
|
Post by angrycommuter on Apr 3, 2013 13:05:57 GMT 1
I Agree with This post,Does anyone know what loadings on 757 Are like on NYD? - Surly not much as connecting buses are not running.I Always thought during January a Weekend Express service to Trafford Centre might work,i mean its the second largest shopping centre in UK - Do decent marketing (Posters on buses/In Bus Stations/Maybe at Main bus stops on the lead upto xmas,Let people buy through tickets on connecting buses to cut Loading Times.& Yes it might mean less people shop locally but at least there shopping! - no wonder boxing day services have failed,As someone who lives near Huddersfield,alot of people perfer to go to the likes of Leeds Or Manchester to shop & Alot of people dont even know the 363 Goes all the way to leeds on a Boxing Day,people just think its 202/203 There is a general adage in the bus & coach industry amongst the good operators that it is better to leave your vehicles idle if you can't get the right amount of money than be a busy fool running vehicles just to bring a bit of money in. The operating costs are higher on a Sunday than a Saturday or weekday (drivers are paid more and the more vehicles you run the greater supervisory & engineering cover is required increasing costs greatly) so you need more passengers on a Sunday to cover the costs than on a Saturday, the standing costs you mention are budgeted across whatever the normal operator level is in any case. I would agree with the comment that there are as many passengers on a Sunday as a Saturday but that was more a comment on the weakness of the Saturday than the likelihood of commercial Sundays (there are a number of even urban routes in the Home Counties which are commercial on weekdays & tendered on both Saturday & Sunday). The problem is that if you run services on a Sunday that you don't run during the week then there are issues of ticketing and passengers getting to know what is happening, it is difficult to advertise anywhere except on bus in West Yorkshire as Metro control the bus stop cases and it is difficult to get anything non-Metro in. I would like to see stronger Sunday services as I think that if you can get through the initial establishment costs as numbers build they can do well (but that is a risk and it won't always work), but it isn't my company or my money at risk and I don't have the access to the passenger numbers & financial performance to be able to judge whether my gut feelings are backed up by any actual facts. The Good Friday issue was that the local depot manager & area manager just wanted to run what they had in previous years and were unconvinced that anything more would be a success given the rural nature of their operations and since it was always a weak business case for doing it (it was as much that I wanted to use one or two of the buses that wouldn't have run on Good Friday as anything else) and we simply ran out of time before the registration to persuade colleagues of the merit of my weak case. The issue with the Trafford Centre is that it is over 50km from any useable point in West Yorkshire (& White Rose is actually quite well served from many points in West Yorkshire) so needs tachos & EU hours drivers, I don't know about any of the other companies in West Yorkshire but Centrebus don't really do that work anywhere in their operations (there is one EU hours duty in Lincolnshire worked by a part time driver that pre-dates the purchase of the company that just about justifies itself under the present operating regime) so such an operation would not be compatible with the current working conditions. These sort of workings are often tried but rarely succeed, and generally where they do it is by a smaller operator (like Poeplesbus) who have a more flexible workforce & pay conditions & lower operating costs. Ok, thanks for the informed comments. I was basing my assumptions that a bus company views it's assets in a similar manner to airlines. Ryanair, Jet2 etc. try to keep there planes in operation as much as possible and do not have idle time - their assets are made to work for a living! It is unfortunate that the bus industry is so unionised and that contracts cannot be negotiated with individuals who would work on a Sunday for near normal pay. I think the stance of unions on this matter is somewhat blinkered. Reducing the amount paid to drivers on a Sunday and Bank Holidays would make routes become more viable meaning more drivers are needed and the company hiring more staff.
|
|
|
Post by deerfold on Apr 3, 2013 16:27:50 GMT 1
On your idea about paying plain time,Boxing Day is still a Bank Holiday,so its double time I'm afraid, religious or not,it's the law!! I'm not aware of any law requiring paying double time on a Bank Holiday. I certainly didn't get it when I had a job that required the odd bank holiday shift. If there is a law, feel free to provide a link to anything about it. Of course if their emplyment contract says they get it then that's different.
|
|
|
Post by Kenton Schweppes on Apr 3, 2013 19:39:22 GMT 1
On your idea about paying plain time,Boxing Day is still a Bank Holiday,so its double time I'm afraid, religious or not,it's the law!! I'm not aware of any law requiring paying double time on a Bank Holiday. I certainly didn't get it when I had a job that required the odd bank holiday shift. If there is a law, feel free to provide a link to anything about it.
Of course if their emplyment contract says they get it then that's different.Indeed you are quite correct. There is no law entitling employees to any extra pay on Bank Holiday, apologies for my 'faux pas'.
|
|
|
Post by dwarfer1979 on Apr 4, 2013 8:29:17 GMT 1
Ok, thanks for the informed comments. I was basing my assumptions that a bus company views it's assets in a similar manner to airlines. Ryanair, Jet2 etc. try to keep there planes in operation as much as possible and do not have idle time - their assets are made to work for a living! It is unfortunate that the bus industry is so unionised and that contracts cannot be negotiated with individuals who would work on a Sunday for near normal pay. I think the stance of unions on this matter is somewhat blinkered. Reducing the amount paid to drivers on a Sunday and Bank Holidays would make routes become more viable meaning more drivers are needed and the company hiring more staff. The low-cost airline model (like Ryanair etc) is slightly different in that they try to avoid too much idle time with their aircraft (& crew!) so they do not need as many plans rather than just to keep things moving (you could never characterise Ryanair as busy fools), no different to bus companies interworking routes to produce the most efficient schedules or shaving running time to reduce the number of vehicles required to cover a particular network. Those business models require nearly full aircraft to make any money so they don't have aircraft in the air just to keep them moving, they only fly where they can get the loads and are very ruthless at pulling off things where costs or revenue don't match their requirements. The success of such airlines is down to ruthless cost-cutting and very clever marketing above anything else. Even if individual contracts could be negotiated do you honestly think that anyone would willingly work for less than his colleagues? Especially on the weekend when no one really wants to work, evenings & sundays are the two most unpopular shifts for drivers and whilst on evenings you can normally find some drivers who like late shifts to alleviate the pain on Sundays you won't. The railways have shown what happens if you rely on overtime or unofficial agreements to cover Sundays, you run the risk of people deciding they no longer wished to do so and suddenly you have to cancel most of your network (the TCs take a very dim view of cancelling buses due to not having sufficient staff - large fines and other punishments won't be long in arriving if you do). In my experience it seems (admittedly this may be a little unfair on many reps - a minority of those I have dealt with have been diligent in acting in the interests of the whole) Union officials don't seem to be that bothered by the opportunity for employing more staff, they don't even seem that fussed about representing the staff they currently have. As long as they get what they want they aren't that fussed about the rest. In many cases they have their own dedicated duties and the first thing they will check is their own duties and then as long as that is fine they are often happy (I have had a conversation with a rep who wanted to reduce the spell length in duties because he didn't like driving for over 5 hours in one stint every day, which would have had the result of reducing the length of everyones duties and so pay, at a time when the staff at the depot were complaining the duties weren't long enough. The only reason he had to drive 5+ hours every day was he had his own dedicated duty that started after 9am so he didn't have to get up early in the morning, if he took another duty or just worked in the main rota like everyone else he wouldn't have had to).
|
|
|
Post by deerfold on Apr 5, 2013 15:27:50 GMT 1
0 The bit I have never understood is why there are no buses on New Years Day, everywhere else I have been involved in it is a normal Sunday service but in West Yorkshire I find this quite surprising too - especially as trains run to a normal timetable (with a later than normal start on some lines). I'd cope fairly easily with the 2 mile walk at this end to my local station, but if visitng family there'd be a similar one the other end and the same back - so 8 miles to walk - or take in 4 taxis. I did travel on the buses in West Yorkshire last time there was a general service on NYD in 1999. They were discontinued after this due to lack of use - but the frequencies provided were dreadful. There were 7 buses all day between Ripponden and Halifax, split between the 528 and either 560 or 562. the 508 was running every 2 hours. I've lived in Hertfordshire where the bus service is generaly poor apart from a few very good links. They seem to manage a normal Sunday service - subsidised where the normal Sunday service is, comercial where it isn't.
|
|
SF07
Forum Member
Posts: 3,216
|
Post by SF07 on Jul 26, 2013 19:51:20 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by deerfold on Aug 5, 2013 8:36:14 GMT 1
|
|
SF07
Forum Member
Posts: 3,216
|
Post by SF07 on Sept 30, 2013 20:24:31 GMT 1
Details of Boxing Day services for 2013 are in the documents for the next WYITA Bus Scrunity Commitee meeting. The significant changes are: *Buses to White Rose Centre plus the 72 will have increased frequencies to meet demands *136 will not run in 2013 after only 30 passenger used the service on Boxing Day in 2012 *760 to run full route between Keighley and Leeds, which will be operated by Transdev in Keighley instead of Centrebus. Service may also extend to Airedale Hospital, if cost-effective. *Services 702, 717 and 719 will also operate in Keighley for first time on Boxing Day, following requests from Keighley Town Council and Airedale Shopping Centre, who will promote the services *Fares will change for 2013 with £4 day ticket reduced to £3.50 and a single fare of £2 introduced. Children travelling with an adult will once again be able to travel for free, while children travelling alone with Photocard will be charged £1. Concessionary passes, MetroCards and operator season tickets valid for use. Services operating in 2013 (Not sure if the route descriptions are accurate, as it suggests that services 229, 254, 268 and 444 will run full routes instead of part routes, as in previous years): *1 (First) - Holt Park-Leeds-Beeston *2 (First) - Middleton-Leeds-Roundhay *3/3A (First) - White Rose Centre-Leeds-Brackenwood/Gledhow *4 (First) - Pudsey-Leeds-Seacroft *5 (First) - Old Farnley-Leeds-Halton Moor *6 (First) - Leeds-Holt Park *7 (First) - Leeds-Primley Park *12 (First) - Middleton-Leeds-Roundhay *13/13A (First) - Middleton-Leeds-Brackenwood/Gledhow *16/16A (First) - Pudsey-Leeds-Seacroft-Whinmoor *19 (First) - Ireland Wood-Leeds-Garforth *33/33A (First) - Leeds-Otley *40 (First) - Leeds-Seacroft *42 (First) - Old Farnley-Leeds-Oakwood *49 (First) - Bramley-Leeds-Monkswood Gate *50/50A (First) - Horsforth-Leeds-Seacroft *51/52 (First) - Moor Allerton-Leeds-Morley *56 (First) - Moor Grange-Leeds-Whinmoor *72 (First) - Leeds-Bradford *81/82 (Centrebus) - Huddersfield-Clayton West/Denby Dale *110 (Arriva) - Leeds-Wakefield-Kettlethorpe *166 (Arriva) - Leeds-Castleford *185 (First) - Huddersfield-Marsden *189 (Arriva) - Wakefield-Normanton-Castleford *202/203 (Arriva) - Huddersfield-Dewsbury-Leeds *229 (Arriva) - Huddersfield-Batley-Leeds *254 (Arriva) - Wakefield-Dewsbury-Cleckheaton-Leeds *268 (Arriva) - Dewsbury-Heckmondwike-Cleckheaton-Bradford *301 (First) - Huddersfield-Golcar *306 (First) - Huddersfield-Newsome *310/314 (First) - Huddersfield-Holmfirth-Hepworth/Holme *324 (First) - Huddersfield-Meltham *328 (First) - Balmoral Avenue-Huddersfield-Bradley *370 (First) - Rawthorpe-Huddersfield-Lindley *372 (First) - Almondbury-Huddersfield-Lindley *444 (Arriva) - Hall Green-Wakefield-Rothwell-Leeds *503 (First) - Huddersfield-Elland-Halifax *508 (First) - Halifax-Farsley-Kirkstall-Leeds *702 (Transdev) - Keighley-Braithwaite *717 (Transdev) - Keighley-Oakworth *719 (Transdev) - Keighley-Bracken Bank *757 (Centrebus) - Leeds-Leeds Bradford Airport *760 (Transdev) - Keighley-Shipley-Leeds *X63 (First) - Huddersfield-Brighouse-Bradford www.wyita.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/67E591CB-4416-4149-B20D-FFC76164CA7F/0/BSSC3OCTOBER2013ITEM8BoxingDayServices.pdf
|
|
|
Post by northerner on Oct 2, 2013 20:30:00 GMT 1
That's great news for Keighley and hopefully the services will be well used enough for them to be retained. However, a lack of 662 is a little surprising as is the lack of buses in the Bradford area in general
|
|