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Post by notthoroughfare on May 21, 2023 8:18:39 GMT 1
In the most recent update of the BSIP for next weeks Transport Committee, approval is being sought to release £6,228,434 to deliver service enhancements. Transdev: K3 10min; K7 12min; £1 Keighley Zone Flat Fare. (£1,475,944) Transdev: Aireline - Shipley to Leeds Frequency increased to 20 mins, with option to route some through Wrose/Idle. (£1,282,963) First WY: Halifax-Huddersfield new express service X3, 501/503 every 7/8 mins, new connections to Elland Station and between Hospitals and new 583 service Halifax-Elland-Brighouse. (£1,469,527) Total Cost: £4,228,434   You can have a look at the document at westyorkshire.moderngov.co.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=138&MId=1214 Just thought some of you would find this interesting. |
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Post by deerfold on May 21, 2023 8:53:26 GMT 1
I'm curious as to whether the 10 minute frequency on the K3 will replace the K2,too.
At the moment the K3 is every 30 minutes, but they're every 15 combined.
And if the 60 is every 20 minutes between Shipley and Leeds, will Transdev run them all to Keighley or just a 20/40 service.
Quite a lot of improvement for the Halifax/Huddersfield corridor, but no improvements for the nearby areas with the harshest recent cuts.
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Post by notthoroughfare on May 21, 2023 9:03:00 GMT 1
I'm curious as to whether the 10 minute frequency on the K3 will replace the K2,too. At the moment the K3 is every 30 minutes, but they're every 15 combined. And if the 60 is every 20 minutes between Shipley and Leeds, will Transdev run them all to Keighley or just a 20/40 service. Quite a lot of improvement for the Halifax/Huddersfield corridor, but no improvements for the nearby areas with the harshest recent cuts. To be honest, I don't know. The main purpose of this report seemingly is to get approval not neccessarly outline all the details of operation, though on the 60 I very much doubt they would run them all in to Keighley as the busiest section of Aireline tends to be from Shipley onward. As for combining the K3 and K2 since they are so similar I think that might happen to get the increased frequency, but personally I think that depends more so on the what the fleet can deliver, best guess is that they are going to use more ex-ribble country mellors. Providing veichles for the 60 might be interesting, though, given how on most days the old Presidents are still working routes. |
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2023 9:11:52 GMT 1
Quite a lot of improvement for the Halifax/Huddersfield corridor, but no improvements for the nearby areas with the harshest recent cuts. I'm guessing that's because the 'BSIP' funding routes have a set amount of time of funding before they are expected to become commercially viable (Between 3-5 Years depending on the area it seems) so they've just accepted the routes that have been cut recently had little chance of ever becoming viable. I Wonder what route the 538 will take between Elland & Brighouse, as it seems every obvious route already has a service unless an existing route is to be merged into it. One other thing they've slipped in the document towards the end (page 190) is that it seems the Halifax Bus Station won't be opening until October now |
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Post by mattb7tl on May 21, 2023 9:23:34 GMT 1
I feel like the money would’ve been better spent on better evening/night frequencies but this is still without a doubt awesome!
I’m also shocked just how little it takes to make these improvements, especially when you compare it to car infrastructure.
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Post by deerfold on May 21, 2023 9:33:20 GMT 1
I'm guessing that's because the 'BSIP' funding routes have a set amount of time of funding before they are expected to become commercially viable (Between 3-5 Years depending on the area it seems) so they've just accepted the routes that have been cut recently had little chance of ever becoming viable. They're taking a bit of a punt on the K7. I remember that being every 12 minutes. Then every 15. Then every 20. It took a while after the pandemic cuts for it to return to every 20 minutes from every 30. |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on May 21, 2023 9:41:40 GMT 1
The 503 running every 7/8 mins is a surprise considering it doesn’t even run every 10 minutes since COVID, and seemed to be at the front of the queue for cancelled journeys, and with an express X3 on top of it as well
During the height of the staff shortages and with Halifax and Huddersfield at that point running the service, it wasn’t unusual for each depot to cancel one board each on the service, that were consecutive.
Although it doesn’t give more details about what the X3 would entail, it could be peak times only
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2023 10:01:16 GMT 1
I'm guessing that's because the 'BSIP' funding routes have a set amount of time of funding before they are expected to become commercially viable (Between 3-5 Years depending on the area it seems) so they've just accepted the routes that have been cut recently had little chance of ever becoming viable. They're taking a bit of a punt on the K7. I remember that being every 12 minutes. Then every 15. Then every 20. It took a while after the pandemic cuts for it to return to every 20 minutes from every 30. I Agree over the K7,unless there's some housing development due to pop up somewhere along the route that could help both provide new passengers & extra financial assistance on top of the BSIP (similar to what's been launched recently in Leighton Buzzard down south). Downsizing to some of the leftover Mellors could help as well. If route 60 does go Every 20Mins all the way to Keighley I wonder if that is what could lead to the end of 622 what to be honest I'm surprised has lasted this long as apart from the Beckfoot to Shipley link it just duplicates other services for its route. |
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Post by mattb7tl on May 21, 2023 10:10:57 GMT 1
The 503 running every 7/8 mins is a surprise considering it doesn’t even run every 10 minutes since COVID, and seemed to be at the front of the queue for cancelled journeys, and with an express X3 on top of it as well During the height of the staff shortages and with Halifax and Huddersfield at that point running the service, it wasn’t unusual for each depot to cancel one board each on the service, that were consecutive. Although it doesn’t give more details about what the X3 would entail, it could be peak times only Issue is with that is every ten minutes route dropped down to a fifteen minute frequency. I don’t think it had anything to do with usage or COVID, more the driver shortage. It’s also got some extremely irritating roadworks at the moment, probably going to have less usage than usual due to that reason. |
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Post by deerfold on May 21, 2023 10:42:54 GMT 1
The 503 running every 7/8 mins is a surprise considering it doesn’t even run every 10 minutes since COVID, and seemed to be at the front of the queue for cancelled journeys, and with an express X3 on top of it as well During the height of the staff shortages and with Halifax and Huddersfield at that point running the service, it wasn’t unusual for each depot to cancel one board each on the service, that were consecutive. Although it doesn’t give more details about what the X3 would entail, it could be peak times only Issue is with that is every ten minutes route dropped down to a fifteen minute frequency. I don’t think it had anything to do with usage or COVID, more the driver shortage. It’s also got some extremely irritating roadworks at the moment, probably going to have less usage than usual due to that reason. Salterhebble is horrendous at the moment (as so often over the years). I'm all for the increase in frequency, but do First have the drivers without dropping trips on other routes? It's still not clear whether they planned to put the frequency of the 586 back to hourly when drivers were available. |
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Post by martinsfp on May 21, 2023 10:43:34 GMT 1
Running some 60s through Wrose and Idle would be an interesting new route - presumably a 60A running Leeds-Shipley only.
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Post by WYBS on May 21, 2023 10:43:40 GMT 1
The 60 being increased to every 20 minutes is something that's been needed ever since First abandoned my area with the loss of the 670/35 and 508. However I find it strange that it would require that much funding, as the route has picked up trade from said abandoned routes and is now regularly very busy. I must commend councillor Peter Carlill, who is very active when it comes to public transport issues, and I know he has been pushing for an improved 60 service.
I have been generally positive about Alex Hornby's time at Transdev, but I can't help thinking that whilst they have focussed their efforts on loss making projects (CityZap, X98/99, Ribble Country, Team Pennine etc...), they could have been focussing on routes like Aireline.
The Huddersfield to Halifax express service is something I have been banging on about for years, but I feel that it would be strange to increase the frequency of the 503 as well. It should be one or the other.
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Post by WYBS on May 21, 2023 10:45:41 GMT 1
Running some 60s through Wrose and Idle would be an interesting new route - presumably a 60A running Leeds-Shipley only. I wonder if there would be any potential of Idle running these short journeys. Otherwise drivers would have to get to Shipley from Keighley for changeovers. |
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Post by Username on May 21, 2023 13:42:49 GMT 1
Quite a lot of improvement for the Halifax/Huddersfield corridor, but no improvements for the nearby areas with the harshest recent cuts. I'm guessing that's because the 'BSIP' funding routes have a set amount of time of funding before they are expected to become commercially viable (Between 3-5 Years depending on the area it seems) so they've just accepted the routes that have been cut recently had little chance of ever becoming viable. I Wonder what route the 538 will take between Elland & Brighouse, as it seems every obvious route already has a service unless an existing route is to be merged into it. One other thing they've slipped in the document towards the end (page 190) is that it seems the Halifax Bus Station won't be opening until October now Since it has close numbering to the 537, my guess is that the service will probably use the bypass into Elland and then since it serves the railway station it could go up the E1/E2 route to Brighouse replacing those locals services? |
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Post by Username on May 21, 2023 13:47:33 GMT 1
The 503 running every 7/8 mins is a surprise considering it doesn’t even run every 10 minutes since COVID, and seemed to be at the front of the queue for cancelled journeys, and with an express X3 on top of it as well During the height of the staff shortages and with Halifax and Huddersfield at that point running the service, it wasn’t unusual for each depot to cancel one board each on the service, that were consecutive. Although it doesn’t give more details about what the X3 would entail, it could be peak times only Issue is with that is every ten minutes route dropped down to a fifteen minute frequency. I don’t think it had anything to do with usage or COVID, more the driver shortage. It’s also got some extremely irritating roadworks at the moment, probably going to have less usage than usual due to that reason. Since these mentioned Elland Station, these will probably arrive for 2025 when the roadworks would definitely be completed. |
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Post by Username on May 21, 2023 13:49:10 GMT 1
Issue is with that is every ten minutes route dropped down to a fifteen minute frequency. I don’t think it had anything to do with usage or COVID, more the driver shortage. It’s also got some extremely irritating roadworks at the moment, probably going to have less usage than usual due to that reason. Salterhebble is horrendous at the moment (as so often over the years). I'm all for the increase in frequency, but do First have the drivers without dropping trips on other routes? It's still not clear whether they planned to put the frequency of the 586 back to hourly when drivers were available. To be very honest I think the 586 might be the next one to drop. If they do it will most definitely get contracted and maybe they can have Arriva or Transdev run it instead. |
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Post by Burnside on May 21, 2023 14:38:21 GMT 1
I'm curious as to whether the 10 minute frequency on the K3 will replace the K2,too.. From experience, the K2 could easily be axed as the majority of the time nobody uses the stops on the bottom part of North Dean that is only served by the K2, the only exception being the stop by the mini roundabout where Guard House Road meets North Dean, but this could still be served by rerouting the K3 down Guard House Road after the stop for the Reservoir pub, with the Ring and Braithwaite Avenue still being served but only on the way back to town. What will be interesting is the interworking. Currently, for most of the day, the K2 interworks with the K1 and the K3 with the K5. With 2 extra buses per hour, and some alteration to departure times from the bus station, there will likely be changes to how the services interwork. |
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Post by stephen01 on May 21, 2023 15:14:22 GMT 1
Issue is with that is every ten minutes route dropped down to a fifteen minute frequency. I don’t think it had anything to do with usage or COVID, more the driver shortage. It’s also got some extremely irritating roadworks at the moment, probably going to have less usage than usual due to that reason. Since these mentioned Elland Station, these will probably arrive for 2025 when the roadworks would definitely be completed. The Document says they start this September. |
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Post by deerfold on May 21, 2023 16:18:04 GMT 1
Running some 60s through Wrose and Idle would be an interesting new route - presumably a 60A running Leeds-Shipley only. I wonder if there would be any potential of Idle running these short journeys. Otherwise drivers would have to get to Shipley from Keighley for changeovers. Or it could work like the service does on a Sunday, with all buses and drivers starting in Keighley but then going to Leeds, then to Shipley Greengates, Leeds and back to Keighley. |
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Post by steve440 on May 21, 2023 16:23:24 GMT 1
The 60 being increased to every 20 minutes is something that's been needed ever since First abandoned my area with the loss of the 670/35 and 508. However I find it strange that it would require that much funding, as the route has picked up trade from said abandoned routes and is now regularly very busy. I must commend councillor Peter Carlill, who is very active when it comes to public transport issues, and I know he has been pushing for an improved 60 service. I have been generally positive about Alex Hornby's time at Transdev, but I can't help thinking that whilst they have focussed their efforts on loss making projects (CityZap, X98/99, Ribble Country, Team Pennine etc...), they could have been focussing on routes like Aireline. The Huddersfield to Halifax express service is something I have been banging on about for years, but I feel that it would be strange to increase the frequency of the 503 as well. It should be one or the other. The document states that links between HRI and Calderdale General will be improved, so my theory is that the 503 will remain a 15 minute frequency with the 501 being introduced on weekdays also on a 15 minute frequency coordinated with the 503 between Halifax and Ainley Top. This would achieve this aim and also improve the service around Lindley Moor and maybe result in the 372 being withdrawn between Lindley and Huddersfield, becoming Huddersfield to Almondbury only. |
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Post by Bradford Traveller on May 21, 2023 17:47:37 GMT 1
I wonder if there would be any potential of Idle running these short journeys. Otherwise drivers would have to get to Shipley from Keighley for changeovers. Or it could work like the service does on a Sunday, with all buses and drivers starting in Keighley but then going to Leeds, then to Shipley, Leeds and back to Keighley. Keighley – Ls – Greengates – Ls – Keighley 😆 |
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Post by deerfold on May 21, 2023 18:01:40 GMT 1
Or it could work like the service does on a Sunday, with all buses and drivers starting in Keighley but then going to Leeds, then to Shipley, Leeds and back to Keighley. Keighley – Ls – Greengates – Ls – Keighley Indeed. I largely ignore the short runs as I'm starting out in Keighley. |
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Post by Username on May 21, 2023 18:25:36 GMT 1
The 60 being increased to every 20 minutes is something that's been needed ever since First abandoned my area with the loss of the 670/35 and 508. However I find it strange that it would require that much funding, as the route has picked up trade from said abandoned routes and is now regularly very busy. I must commend councillor Peter Carlill, who is very active when it comes to public transport issues, and I know he has been pushing for an improved 60 service. I have been generally positive about Alex Hornby's time at Transdev, but I can't help thinking that whilst they have focussed their efforts on loss making projects (CityZap, X98/99, Ribble Country, Team Pennine etc...), they could have been focussing on routes like Aireline. The Huddersfield to Halifax express service is something I have been banging on about for years, but I feel that it would be strange to increase the frequency of the 503 as well. It should be one or the other. The document states that links between HRI and Calderdale General will be improved, so my theory is that the 503 will remain a 15 minute frequency with the 501 being introduced on weekdays also on a 15 minute frequency coordinated with the 503 between Halifax and Ainley Top. This would achieve this aim and also improve the service around Lindley Moor and maybe result in the 372 being withdrawn between Lindley and Huddersfield, becoming Huddersfield to Almondbury only. I would leave the 372 untouched as quite a lot of people cross over from Almondbury or Waterloo to the hospital. I've always thought of maybe having 501/3 half hourly through the day combined to make a service every 15 minutes and then X3 every half hour. |
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Post by WYBS on May 21, 2023 18:39:01 GMT 1
I wonder if there would be any potential of Idle running these short journeys. Otherwise drivers would have to get to Shipley from Keighley for changeovers. Or it could work like the service does on a Sunday, with all buses and drivers starting in Keighley but then going to Leeds, then to Shipley Greengates, Leeds and back to Keighley. I'm not convinced they could do that within the driving time regs. Rough timings, not factoring in traffic: KLY-LDS: 90 mins LDS-SHP: 60 mins SHP-LDS: 60 mins LDS-KLY: 90 mins. Add 5 minutes layover and the end of each and that's 5 hours 20 minutes (with no traffic or delays). Cutting it pretty close. |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on May 21, 2023 18:46:19 GMT 1
The document states that links between HRI and Calderdale General will be improved, so my theory is that the 503 will remain a 15 minute frequency with the 501 being introduced on weekdays also on a 15 minute frequency coordinated with the 503 between Halifax and Ainley Top. This would achieve this aim and also improve the service around Lindley Moor and maybe result in the 372 being withdrawn between Lindley and Huddersfield, becoming Huddersfield to Almondbury only. I would leave the 372 untouched as quite a lot of people cross over from Almondbury or Waterloo to the hospital. I've always thought of maybe having 501/3 half hourly through the day combined to make a service every 15 minutes and then X3 every half hour. That would leave the main Halifax Road into Huddersfield with only 2 buses per hour, which isn’t adequate Maybe they could run the ‘501’ as Halifax to Almondbury, run by Huddersfield depot, with the 503 running Halifax to Huddersfield run by Halifax depot |
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