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Post by twansport on Mar 22, 2023 7:43:59 GMT 1
The Swinnow stops on the 508 are a mistake in my book. The on slip there is a nightmare.
I am interested in thoughts about the three minute journey time from Green Hill Mount Road to Dawson’s Corner. That feels optimistic in peak hour.
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37057
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Post by 37057 on Mar 22, 2023 13:32:38 GMT 1
I have route learned the new 508 and we didn't get told we was serving that stop on Swinnow Stanningley bypass or the one on the sliproad, last bus stop will be Stanningley Rd Greenhill Mount then non stop to Thornbury so I'm unsure where you have got that information from. If you go on wymetro.com and look at the upcoming timetable if you click the journey it shows every stop it serves I have just looked also we was told its going in and out of Leeds the same way as the 72 but on wymetro it's going down park row and Wellington street so I will enquire about this.
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Mar 22, 2023 15:47:18 GMT 1
576 Timetable now on too, pretty much every 20 min at tea time peak! Also, looks as though the 184 arrives in Oldham at xx05, why make it depart at xx19?! Make it xx20. Same with a lot of services now, leaving at random odd minutes. New evening 576 times now leave at xx03/xx33 from Halifax... Why? It is like there is some sort of mission to make timetables as messy as ever and unmemorable.
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Post by stevieinselby on Mar 22, 2023 17:50:47 GMT 1
576 Timetable now on too, pretty much every 20 min at tea time peak! Also, looks as though the 184 arrives in Oldham at xx05, why make it depart at xx19?! Make it xx20. Same with a lot of services now, leaving at random odd minutes. New evening 576 times now leave at xx03/xx33 from Halifax... Why? It is like there is some sort of mission to make timetables as messy as ever and unmemorable. Yes, First are on a mission to make all their timetables as unfriendly and incomprehensible as possible. They've done the same in York, it's absolute garbage what they're coming out with now.
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Post by pub146g on Mar 22, 2023 18:35:07 GMT 1
576 Timetable now on too, pretty much every 20 min at tea time peak! Also, looks as though the 184 arrives in Oldham at xx05, why make it depart at xx19?! Make it xx20. Same with a lot of services now, leaving at random odd minutes. New evening 576 times now leave at xx03/xx33 from Halifax... Why? It is like there is some sort of mission to make timetables as messy as ever and unmemorable. Personally I don't have a problem with it, remembering 03/33 is no more difficult than 15/45, 00/30 etc. At least to me it isn't. My local bus in Leeds, the 2 leaves Roundhay Park on Sundays at 13/43, again it's no more difficult than 15/45. From Leeds it's 12/42; I just don't see a problem; in any case I don't leave home without checking the real time on my 'phone because I want the reassurance it's not cancelled or late etc.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Mar 22, 2023 18:59:40 GMT 1
I have no problem with 03/33, it evens out departures from bus stations for a start.
It’s when they run 1003, 1033, 1104, 1135, 1205, 1236 that’s the issue
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Post by pub146g on Mar 22, 2023 20:05:13 GMT 1
I have no problem with 03/33, it evens out departures from bus stations for a start. It’s when they run 1003, 1033, 1104, 1135, 1205, 1236 that’s the issue Indeed but with the abundance of real time info available you could argue it's largely irrelevant what time a bus theoretically leaves a terminus point. I say theoretically because my service (2) weekdays has a few random timings in the afternoon but with congestion causing lateness etc I don't really need to know that it leaves Roundhay Pk at 1758 or 1810 because I wouldn't go catch a bus anywhere nowadays without checking the real time situation beforehand. On a similar note I've never understood the constant cry for paper timetables, to me these are as irrelevant as a cassette tape. Yes I might have a look at the timetable on either the First or Metro website but I wouldn't dream of standing at a bus stop without any form of real time info knowledge. Anyway I'd better stop here as I'm veering off topic.
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Mar 22, 2023 20:29:17 GMT 1
My point being is that there is no need for it to be at random odd minutes - if it arrives at xx05 then make it leave logically as xx15 or xx25, when this isn't the case it just gives the impression it has been thrown together with no thought and comes across as amateurish. Block times and clockface timetables have been proven time and time again to increase passenger numbers and reliability. the 503 & 576 for example, have left Halifax at xx15 and xx45 for many many years, easy time to remember and easier to tell passengers when they ask. Times like that become "part of the furniture" so to speak. As for reliability, the Eve/Sun times on the 503 & 576 would mean that services pass through most timing points a few minutes late with 15 mins from the end timing point to the terminus to account for this which would actually mean arriving at either end on time or a few mins early. With modern scheduling software that's gone out of the window as it's trying to time each and every trip to the absolute minute which ruins the timetable and makes it look as though services are late. Really riles me how nobody is taking pride of their schedules anymore, none of the recent ones by not the 2nd company are passenger friendly at all. Things need to change. Alright in a city with multiple services on corridors e.g. Dews Rds in Leeds it doesn't matter but when things have stayed the same for decades there is a reason for it.... if it needed to be changed it would have done! Anyway, back to the service changes.
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Post by SCH117X on Mar 22, 2023 21:24:41 GMT 1
If the stop is shared with other services that could be a factor as could how use of a bus station is charged; simply departures or time on stand.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2023 22:26:23 GMT 1
576 Timetable now on too, pretty much every 20 min at tea time peak! Also, looks as though the 184 arrives in Oldham at xx05, why make it depart at xx19?! Make it xx20. Same with a lot of services now, leaving at random odd minutes. New evening 576 times now leave at xx03/xx33 from Halifax... Why? It is like there is some sort of mission to make timetables as messy as ever and unmemorable. It's possible it's a cost cutting exercise by First, as it will depart from the same stand at the same time as Route 84 to Lees (unless the timetable changes alongside the 184),as the stand is designed to take 2 buses at a time it could be First will only have to pay 1 departure fee depending how TfGM charges - only a few hundred pound per year but I guess it's something when looking for savings
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Mar 22, 2023 22:53:29 GMT 1
576 Timetable now on too, pretty much every 20 min at tea time peak! Also, looks as though the 184 arrives in Oldham at xx05, why make it depart at xx19?! Make it xx20. Same with a lot of services now, leaving at random odd minutes. New evening 576 times now leave at xx03/xx33 from Halifax... Why? It is like there is some sort of mission to make timetables as messy as ever and unmemorable. It's possible it's a cost cutting exercise by First, as it will depart from the same stand at the same time as Route 84 to Lees (unless the timetable changes alongside the 184),as the stand is designed to take 2 buses at a time it could be First will only have to pay 1 departure fee depending how TfGM charges - only a few hundred pound per year but I guess it's something when looking for savings Tfgm charge per scheduled departure, atleast they did when I was registering services over there. So you could have 10 services departing from the same stand theoretically and it would would still be 10 lots of fees. I remember tfgm used to stipulate minimum time spent in Oldham and any excessive waiting time or driver changes to be taken at Mumps.
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Post by stevieinselby on Mar 22, 2023 23:08:46 GMT 1
If the stop is shared with other services that could be a factor as could how use of a bus station is charged; simply departures or time on stand. They're doing the same in York, where there is no bus station and buses just layover at bus stops on residential roads at each end of the route - see my post up-thread at Mar 6, 2023 at 10:38am - just random intervals and random journey times that make no sense at all.
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Post by rwilkes on Mar 22, 2023 23:49:42 GMT 1
It might be to do with congestion. With roads as they are timetables are becoming fictional however well run the bus company. They might have stats on daily congestion which is fed into scheduling. It is a mess for customers and wil reduce patronage. But maybe it would be worse to try to keep clockface. AS we get more and more cycle lanes and more and more cars buses may be foreced to abandon all routes. see twitter.com/beetrootandpeas
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Post by stevieinselby on Mar 23, 2023 10:21:31 GMT 1
It might be to do with congestion. With roads as they are timetables are becoming fictional however well run the bus company. They might have stats on daily congestion which is fed into scheduling. It is a mess for customers and wil reduce patronage. But maybe it would be worse to try to keep clockface. AS we get more and more cycle lanes and more and more cars buses may be foreced to abandon all routes. see twitter.com/beetrootandpeas Daily congestion is not so predictable that one journey can be timed at 47 minutes and then the journey 17 minutes later at 49 minutes and then the journey 26 minutes later at 48 minutes. It's nonsense.
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Post by rwilkes on Mar 23, 2023 12:20:37 GMT 1
Whatever schedules they run, delivery is impossible. So I agree with your point, but it might be that clock face would be even less deliverable. I don't know. We just have to get used to the fact that lack of action on bus priority means we will be a worsening and more expensive bus services . As we cannot drive this is rotten for me and my wife. Why don't bus drivers and their trades unions give the politicians some hassle on this? With good bus priority we would get bus servies like Brighton, Oxford and Nottingham. More bus drivers would be needed and you would get better pay. Bus driving would be more pleasant without congestion.
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kendall17
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Justice for the 96!
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Post by kendall17 on Mar 23, 2023 19:39:33 GMT 1
Using the above example of departing at 03/33 instead of 05/35. 2 minutes doesn't seem like a great deal. But when that's happening 6-8 times per day for 1 driver. That equates to 12-15mins extra on their days.
That's 15mins later they have to start the next day, 30 day day after etc etc.
That quickly adds up to an extra wage or two to run to clockface departures. Something we know isn't in the budget for some routes.
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Post by SCH117X on Mar 26, 2023 10:30:42 GMT 1
East Yorkshire are taking the 12 on in York from Transdev from 2 April with a new somewhat premature brand of York Locals which would imply somewhat more thn one service. Connexions will continue the 13 and 412 on their current timetables. Also Transdev are continuing with the 22 but making a change from April 16 with the 0715 from Knaresborough no longer serving Ripon Bus Station after it has visited the school (it does call their before the schools) while the 1735 from Knaresborough will terminate at Boroughbridge.
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Post by michael1971 on Mar 26, 2023 12:09:01 GMT 1
It's possible it's a cost cutting exercise by First, as it will depart from the same stand at the same time as Route 84 to Lees (unless the timetable changes alongside the 184),as the stand is designed to take 2 buses at a time it could be First will only have to pay 1 departure fee depending how TfGM charges - only a few hundred pound per year but I guess it's something when looking for savings Tfgm charge per scheduled departure, atleast they did when I was registering services over there. So you could have 10 services departing from the same stand theoretically and it would would still be 10 lots of fees. I remember tfgm used to stipulate minimum time spent in Oldham and any excessive waiting time or driver changes to be taken at Mumps. do you have a link to the 184 from Huddersfield to Oldham i can only find Oldham to Huddersfield on the WYPTE metro site
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Post by leedsbusman on Mar 26, 2023 12:33:55 GMT 1
Tfgm charge per scheduled departure, atleast they did when I was registering services over there. So you could have 10 services departing from the same stand theoretically and it would would still be 10 lots of fees. I remember tfgm used to stipulate minimum time spent in Oldham and any excessive waiting time or driver changes to be taken at Mumps. do you have a link to the 184 from Huddersfield to Oldham i can only find Oldham to Huddersfield on the WYPTE metro site Both directions are there but one is mislabelled so both show to Huddersfield.
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Post by michael1971 on Mar 26, 2023 15:30:22 GMT 1
do you have a link to the 184 from Huddersfield to Oldham i can only find Oldham to Huddersfield on the WYPTE metro site Both directions are there but one is mislabelled so both show to Huddersfield. thanks for that not much difference in departing Huddersfield i noted on services from Oldham it does not say Diggle on timetable as it does towards Oldham is that a mistake
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Post by platform5 on Mar 26, 2023 22:45:13 GMT 1
“East Yorkshire are taking the 12 on in York from Transdev from 2 April with a new somewhat premature brand of York Locals which would imply somewhat more thn one service.”
For now ….
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Post by selbybus on Mar 27, 2023 16:58:45 GMT 1
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jimmi
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Post by jimmi on Mar 29, 2023 13:04:15 GMT 1
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o539
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Post by o539 on Mar 29, 2023 13:44:06 GMT 1
This is good news, glad it's been saved. Hopefully it's more reliable than when First ran it because I have to say it's reliability under them was absolutely shocking at times
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Mar 29, 2023 13:48:00 GMT 1
That's grand news, though I'm surprised Squarepeg didn't want it so that they could run two full circular routes. I wonder if First will withdraw the one journey of the day that they were going to run towards the White Rose on a morning.
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