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Post by Username on Jun 16, 2022 18:59:57 GMT 1
The E200s seat 39, the Tempos 43, the Rosso Versas 41 and the grey B7RLEs 44 Therefore there is a lot of complaining in this thread for basically a 5 seat maximum difference I think this all boils down to an enthusiast wanting deckers so they can sit upstairs My thoughts exactly, when Tiger ran what is now the D1 (originally 233 )it was mainly Centro's on this route, minimal seating difference to the now incumbent E200's. As someone who witnesses the D1 on a regular basis daily, apart from the morning and evening peaks, the majority of daytime loadings are pretty much half full, certainly not enough to justify full time decker operation. Right, just to officially end this. I have already STATED that D1 does not need double deckers, but longer single deckers. Enviro 200s have a lower standing capacity and lower room for standing as well as the seats being all squashed in and not as large with seats not for full sized adults. Lets say someone could be slightly bigger, maybe being taller, fatter or more muscular they might take up two seats?
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Post by deerfold on Jun 16, 2022 20:48:53 GMT 1
The E200s seat 39, the Tempos 43, the Rosso Versas 41 and the grey B7RLEs 44 Therefore there is a lot of complaining in this thread for basically a 5 seat maximum difference I think this all boils down to an enthusiast wanting deckers so they can sit upstairs If you actually read my thread I said the 464 and the D1 need longer single deckers not double deckers also a Tempo has more standing room as well as B7RLE and Versa. Please don't be condescending. You stated that Transdev seemed to be allergic to double deckers or longer buses in many routes. It's been pointed out that they've introduced double deckers on several routes, including one you complained about having smaller buses. Do you just mean there's a couple of routes you think should have bigger buses on?
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Post by SCH117X on Jan 26, 2023 20:27:01 GMT 1
Alex Hornby seemed quite impressed with a destination display that gave the available capacity of the bus albeit plainly a good more than 10b standing
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Post by WYBS on Jan 26, 2023 22:15:47 GMT 1
Alex Hornby seemed quite impressed with a destination display that gave the available capacity of the bus albeit plainly a good more than 10b standing Hornby's always out and about all over the world. I often wonder how much time he actually spends in Harrogate!
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jan 26, 2023 23:26:28 GMT 1
He does seem to be on a jolly of some sort very frequently. Even when he’s in the country he’s touring around the network
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Post by mattb7tl on Apr 23, 2023 18:03:24 GMT 1
As summer approaches… Services have started to become a lot busier. The major links are booming, people are going out more frequently, and with the cap? I think we’re going to have a healthy summer. However, I don’t think the locals are going to be happy with the D1… Standing loads have slowly started to return with the weather, and we’re not even in summer yet! I hope they’ve got something planned to ease the capacity issues otherwise they’re completely stunting their growth. Standing around on a cramped enviro isn’t going to be creating desire.
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Post by Username on Apr 23, 2023 18:56:50 GMT 1
As summer approaches… Services have started to become a lot busier. The major links are booming, people are going out more frequently, and with the cap? I think we’re going to have a healthy summer. However, I don’t think the locals are going to be happy with the D1… Standing loads have slowly started to return with the weather, and we’re not even in summer yet! I hope they’ve got something planned to ease the capacity issues otherwise they’re completely stunting their growth. Standing around on a cramped enviro isn’t going to be creating desire. Team Pennine should get Rossos Gemini 2s for DenbyDarts. The services Rosso uses on them have 0 passengers.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2023 19:29:55 GMT 1
As summer approaches… Services have started to become a lot busier. The major links are booming, people are going out more frequently, and with the cap? I think we’re going to have a healthy summer. However, I don’t think the locals are going to be happy with the D1… Standing loads have slowly started to return with the weather, and we’re not even in summer yet! I hope they’ve got something planned to ease the capacity issues otherwise they’re completely stunting their growth. Standing around on a cramped enviro isn’t going to be creating desire. Team Pennine should get Rossos Gemini 2s for DenbyDarts. The services Rosso uses on them have 0 passengers. They interwork with Schools services hence the use of deckers. The Eclipses used on Irwell line could be a possibility (7 Eclipses for 6 E200s,but the Irwell Line only needs 6 vehicles since the covid cuts)
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Post by mattb7tl on Apr 23, 2023 19:31:12 GMT 1
As summer approaches… Services have started to become a lot busier. The major links are booming, people are going out more frequently, and with the cap? I think we’re going to have a healthy summer. However, I don’t think the locals are going to be happy with the D1… Standing loads have slowly started to return with the weather, and we’re not even in summer yet! I hope they’ve got something planned to ease the capacity issues otherwise they’re completely stunting their growth. Standing around on a cramped enviro isn’t going to be creating desire. Team Pennine should get Rossos Gemini 2s for DenbyDarts. The services Rosso uses on them have 0 passengers. I think that would be a decent upgrade. I do feel bad that they renovated those enviros just for them to be on the edge of over capacity for the majority of the day. With the CEO vanishing, whoever in charge may end up being more willing to use deckers. If you look at the CEOs past company, in a city which has some of the highest bus usage outside of London, they seem to combat over capacity with a frequency increase, instead of deckers. With the state of the company at the moment what would be the cheapest option?
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Post by Username on Apr 23, 2023 20:49:53 GMT 1
Team Pennine should get Rossos Gemini 2s for DenbyDarts. The services Rosso uses on them have 0 passengers. They interwork with Schools services hence the use of deckers. The Eclipses used on Irwell line could be a possibility (7 Eclipses for 6 E200s,but the Irwell Line only needs 6 vehicles since the covid cuts) Looking at fleet history most of their school contracts are actually done by the Centros and Eclipse 2s with only few of them being done by the deckers. I doubt Irwell Line will use new vehicles though. However, maybe the Gemini 3s from 36 could be an option when they get their electric buses.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Apr 23, 2023 20:56:19 GMT 1
Team Pennine should get Rossos Gemini 2s for DenbyDarts. The services Rosso uses on them have 0 passengers. They interwork with Schools services hence the use of deckers. The Eclipses used on Irwell line could be a possibility (7 Eclipses for 6 E200s,but the Irwell Line only needs 6 vehicles since the covid cuts) The Irwell Line is busy as it now only runs every 30 minutes The Gemini 2s at Rosso are used on Greater Manchester school services which have an age limit Until the electric buses start to arrive at the likes of Harrogate and also once Rosso know where they stand with the Bee Network, I can’t see any major fleet changes
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Post by WYBS on Apr 23, 2023 21:00:38 GMT 1
Team Pennine should get Rossos Gemini 2s for DenbyDarts. The services Rosso uses on them have 0 passengers. I think that would be a decent upgrade. I do feel bad that they renovated those enviros just for them to be on the edge of over capacity for the majority of the day. With the CEO vanishing, whoever in charge may end up being more willing to use deckers. If you look at the CEOs past company, in a city which has some of the highest bus usage outside of London, they seem to combat over capacity with a frequency increase, instead of deckers. With the state of the company at the moment what would be the cheapest option? Which new CEO are you talking of? Henri Rohard? I can only see that he has worked for Transdev.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2023 21:07:36 GMT 1
They interwork with Schools services hence the use of deckers. The Eclipses used on Irwell line could be a possibility (7 Eclipses for 6 E200s,but the Irwell Line only needs 6 vehicles since the covid cuts) Looking at fleet history most of their school contracts are actually done by the Centros and Eclipse 2s with only few of them being done by the deckers. I doubt Irwell Line will use new vehicles though. However, maybe the Gemini 3s from 36 could be an option when they get their electric buses. Using the info from Bustimes.org, Half the G2s on Friday did a mix of Rochdale locals & school services, one only did a schools route & one only doing the locals (plus one remaining in the depot) so i think it's safe to say are needed for school contracts (plus TfGM would of paid for the E6 conversions,so that might complicate things) The G3s off the 36 are not a bad guess, or even the Versas off the Airport routes once the electrics arrive there if they decide to only upgrade to full sized SDs
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Apr 23, 2023 21:11:48 GMT 1
Suggesting the current ‘36’ buses would cascade to Team Pennine is pure fantasy talk
It’s a bit of a stretch from ‘some buses are busy in nice weather with a £2 fare’ to reaching that solution
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Post by rs on Apr 23, 2023 21:54:51 GMT 1
Team Pennine should get Rossos Gemini 2s for DenbyDarts. The services Rosso uses on them have 0 passengers. I think that would be a decent upgrade. I do feel bad that they renovated those enviros just for them to be on the edge of over capacity for the majority of the day. With the CEO vanishing, whoever in charge may end up being more willing to use deckers. If you look at the CEOs past company, in a city which has some of the highest bus usage outside of London, they seem to combat over capacity with a frequency increase, instead of deckers. With the state of the company at the moment what would be the cheapest option? I think the new CEO (although nothing has been announced it appears that the current acting CEO is Henri Rohard) seems to be the type to get what needs to be done done with no fuss or social media bragging, but he has been left a mess to try and clean up! The previous, missing CEO tended to hide/ignore any issues by repainting old buses or spending obscene amounts of money of new brands. Problems replacing heavyweight buses with light weight midi-buses on intensive routes are coming to light now as they're getting tired well before their time as well as having constant capacity issues at peak times. But obviously the shiny new brands made the issue go away. The issue now is the lack of available vehicles. The insane overspending and wasted money over the past few years has created a situation now where there is a limited supply of elderly vehicles within the fleet that can be used. It's all well and good saying 'extra capacity will be provided at peak times', but how often does that happen in reality? It's obviously not easy to interwork a decker into different services especially when most services are operating with vehicles too small for the routes they're operating.
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Post by mattb7tl on Apr 23, 2023 21:59:10 GMT 1
Suggesting the current ‘36’ buses would cascade to Team Pennine is pure fantasy talk It’s a bit of a stretch from ‘some buses are busy in nice weather with a £2 fare’ to reaching that solution It’s not hard to believe. Transdev labeled the D1 as one of their flagship routes, up there with Coastliner & the 36. There’s tones of stuff which has affected the D1. Having a competent operator, not being jailed to a certain company with tickets, a functional mobile app, and branding. Transdev may have a lot of operations but the majority of the routes they run are very small in comparison to the likes of First & Arriva. The D1 is a hefty route for the company, with infinite growth opportunities. The population along the route is a lot higher than what is covered in the 180s. Downside is that they’ll need to spend years to get a similar kind of journeys per head due to the damage done by the previous company. The route is already on the verge of overcapacity during the worst weather conditions and with usage a lot higher in the summer it would without a doubt damage the image of the route. I’d suggest full sized single deckers, but there’s no realistic option for full sized singles.
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Post by stephen01 on Apr 23, 2023 22:29:30 GMT 1
Suggesting the current ‘36’ buses would cascade to Team Pennine is pure fantasy talk It’s a bit of a stretch from ‘some buses are busy in nice weather with a £2 fare’ to reaching that solution It’s not hard to believe. Transdev labeled the D1 as one of their flagship routes, up there with Coastliner & the 36. There’s tones of stuff which has affected the D1. Having a competent operator, not being jailed to a certain company with tickets, a functional mobile app, and branding. Transdev may have a lot of operations but the majority of the routes they run are very small in comparison to the likes of First & Arriva. The D1 is a hefty route for the company, with infinite growth opportunities. The population along the route is a lot higher than what is covered in the 180s. Downside is that they’ll need to spend years to get a similar kind of journeys per head due to the damage done by the previous company. The route is already on the verge of overcapacity during the worst weather conditions and with usage a lot higher in the summer it would without a doubt damage the image of the route. I’d suggest full sized single deckers, but there’s no realistic option for full sized singles. Well under HBC & Tiger the routes would have full-sized single deckers on them but the issue was finding the balance to allow deckers to be used as the 231/232 needed deckers (under HBC in early days and back emd of Stagecoach days Waterloo had a massive fleet of Olympians that would be used on both the 80's network and 231/232). Under HBC days when Leeds depot opened they made the fatal decision to have the majority of Deckers run from Leeds with Waterloo having up to 3 max at majority of time (was luck to briefly have more in back end of HBC days and in to early tiger). TP have done the right thing in moving a good few deckers to Waterloo for Schools and those buses have seen occasional service routes. The problem for priorty for stuff at Waterloo is because the 231/232 is no longer there as that was the massive money earner there. If you look back at the last days of Tiger both before and just after the announcement of the sale they tried interworking the 231/232 with 233 (D1 nowadays) and it could be a nightmare given D1 was that bit longer. D1 would have been sustainable using the Centros & Tempos or they could have used the Scania Solars that were at Rosso and still swapped. The X1 also prone to capacity issues because if Tempos are VOR then e200s are used now where as under HBC/Tiger they would prioritise similar full-sized to be used with a Solo usually running the Sunday/Bank Hol freq on 435.
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Post by stevieinselby on Apr 23, 2023 22:35:19 GMT 1
With the state of the company at the moment what would be the cheapest option? The cheapest way to increase capacity is to use bigger buses. The cost of buying and running bigger buses is a lot less than the cost of buying and running additional buses and employing additional drivers so that you can run more buses.
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Post by WYBS on Apr 23, 2023 22:41:30 GMT 1
Whilst capacity may be an issue on the D1, it would appear that the company have MUCH bigger fish to fry at the moment and I would expect this is pretty low on the agenda.
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Apr 24, 2023 8:49:19 GMT 1
Well under HBC & Tiger the routes would have full-sized single deckers on them but the issue was finding the balance to allow deckers to be used as the 231/232 needed deckers (under HBC in early days and back emd of Stagecoach days Waterloo had a massive fleet of Olympians that would be used on both the 80's network and 231/232). Under HBC days when Leeds depot opened they made the fatal decision to have the majority of Deckers run from Leeds with Waterloo having up to 3 max at majority of time (was luck to briefly have more in back end of HBC days and in to early tiger). TP have done the right thing in moving a good few deckers to Waterloo for Schools and those buses have seen occasional service routes. The problem for priorty for stuff at Waterloo is because the 231/232 is no longer there as that was the massive money earner there. If you look back at the last days of Tiger both before and just after the announcement of the sale they tried interworking the 231/232 with 233 (D1 nowadays) and it could be a nightmare given D1 was that bit longer. D1 would have been sustainable using the Centros & Tempos or they could have used the Scania Solars that were at Rosso and still swapped. The X1 also prone to capacity issues because if Tempos are VOR then e200s are used now where as under HBC/Tiger they would prioritise similar full-sized to be used with a Solo usually running the Sunday/Bank Hol freq on 435. Can't speak for Tiger but that is pretty inaccurate about HBC. HBC essentially inherited 8 Olympians from Stagecoach which were effectively scheduled for school or works services, as step-entrance vehicles in a low-floor depot they were not intended to be widely used. Looking at a graph from 2009 (so before Leeds opened & after most of the Olympians had left) there were 6 deckers scheduled to be used (from a fleet of 8), only 1 ran all-day (on the 263 which was an off-peak timetable designed to fit between schools & intended) & 3 others covered any other normal services (a couple of peak trips largely around school flows). Deckers were never regularly scheduled as they cost a lot more to run than the single-deckers and the Centrebus group as a whole were reducing their usage as a result (a low-floor decker cost twice as much to run than even a full sized single at the time though the difference in fuel consumption has improved on recent models there is still a significant difference) - the run down of deckers at Huddersfield was the loss of works/schools contracts whilst Leeds got some deckers as they gained some school contracts (& later Uni services), neither depot had any relation to consideration of loadings on mainstream services. As for the 435/436 (now X1) when HBC won the contract it was very carefully scheduled to get the right sized bus on the right workings, it required 3 buses of different sizes (1 Solo, 1 SB120 & 1 SB200) each carefully allocated to specific journeys as their capacity was required, apart from 1 school trip in each direction it certainly wasn't a priority for a full-sized vehicle. It may be that the D1 needs big single-decks (HBC were using 45-seat SB200s for most trips on 80/81/82) rather than the slightly smaller 39-seat E200 but it has been a long time since that corridor has been extensively decker (even when I was at Uni at Huddersfield there were more single-deckers than doubles on those routes).
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Post by nate58 on Sept 13, 2023 16:32:45 GMT 1
The d1 huddersfield to denby dale is even worse this time round most journeys are standing only...even a driver said its gotton worse since schools and colleges back etc...can anything be done do we think?
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Post by Username on Sept 13, 2023 16:36:44 GMT 1
The d1 huddersfield to denby dale is even worse this time round most journeys are standing only...even a driver said its gotton worse since schools and colleges back etc...can anything be done do we think? I would say double deckers, but Transdev for some strange reason is only sensible enough to bring deckers in for a service if it is completely overloaded on every trip! Still buying brand new single deckers for the Shuttle.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Sept 16, 2023 10:36:49 GMT 1
The d1 huddersfield to denby dale is even worse this time round most journeys are standing only...even a driver said its gotton worse since schools and colleges back etc...can anything be done do we think? I would say double deckers, but Transdev for some strange reason is only sensible enough to bring deckers in for a service if it is completely overloaded on every trip! Still buying brand new single deckers for the Shuttle. Conversely, 3 weeks ago I rode a President on route K9 and there was hardly anyone else on it.
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Post by Username on Sept 16, 2023 10:46:05 GMT 1
I would say double deckers, but Transdev for some strange reason is only sensible enough to bring deckers in for a service if it is completely overloaded on every trip! Still buying brand new single deckers for the Shuttle. Conversely, 3 weeks ago I rode a President on route K9 and there was hardly anyone else on it. Yeah it just doesn't make sense. Services such as 502, 662, B3, 67 and 662 are more deserving of double decker capacity. Yes I am aware that 67 runs through Spring Bank but they should have just rerouted K15 to serve it instead of sending a busy route via that way so it can't have deckers.
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Post by Burnside on Sept 16, 2023 11:26:48 GMT 1
Conversely, 3 weeks ago I rode a President on route K9 and there was hardly anyone else on it. Yeah it just doesn't make sense. Services such as 502, 662, B3, 67 and 662 are more deserving of double decker capacity. Yes I am aware that 67 runs through Spring Bank but they should have just rerouted K15 to serve it instead of sending a busy route via that way so it can't have deckers. Problem there is that the 67 was diverted to maintain an hourly service through Spring Bank with the withdrawal of the K10. Replacing it with the K15 would have drastically reduced service along Hainworth Wood Road and the possibility of leaving some roads served only by the K15 with no bus. A better idea, possibly, would have been using the B1 Stanbury bus, would keep an hourly service to Spring Bank but would allow deckers on the 67. The only issue would be 1 of 3 Haworth buses per hour going a different route and whether the time needed to go that way would preclude it being operated by the same bus all day.
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