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Post by Penfold on Feb 4, 2022 19:47:17 GMT 1
Wait does this mean 147A is scrapped entirely on a sunday? As I know there is one 147 from Wakefield to Normanton on a Sunday I believe? Not according to the article from Wakefield Council, the scrapping is supposed to be suspended until as the route will go out for tender. Yeah, after I posted, it was later announced that it would be continuing until the next changes. I believe CA will be operating them and not BI though Penfold
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Post by Penfold on Feb 4, 2022 19:50:51 GMT 1
Wait does this mean 147A is scrapped entirely on a sunday? As I know there is one 147 from Wakefield to Normanton on a Sunday I believe? Is there any difference in route between the 147 and 147a At the moment the 147A doesnt go around Fairway/Newfields Estate in Normanton. Penfold
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Post by Penfold on Feb 4, 2022 19:52:00 GMT 1
Yeah, after I posted, it was later announced that it would be continuing until the next changes. I believe CA will be operating them and not BI though Penfold Will CA be operating the route Monday to Saturday as well? If you can tell us of course. As looking at the times, the 186 and 147 could work with each on the Wakefield end. I believe (not confirmed yet) that they will be doing ALL journeys. Penfold
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Post by burtonsa02 on Feb 5, 2022 0:21:57 GMT 1
Will CA be operating the route Monday to Saturday as well? If you can tell us of course. As looking at the times, the 186 and 147 could work with each on the Wakefield end. I believe (not confirmed yet) that they will be doing ALL journeys. Penfold If that's the case, I'll be quite suprised as Castleford is getting quite a bit of routes then. I think on Sundays it might as 2 of them start/end at Normanton. Just unsure on weekdays. Looks like we will find out when the changes happen.
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Post by mk2mcw on Feb 7, 2022 18:12:45 GMT 1
How come squarepeg lost the 21/22?
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Post by stephen01 on Feb 7, 2022 19:07:37 GMT 1
How come squarepeg lost the 21/22? Could be they've given them up to focus on 9, 31/32, 80 and school work.
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Post by kommie123 on Feb 7, 2022 19:17:32 GMT 1
A few times they never showed up.
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Post by peteleeds on Feb 8, 2022 18:19:49 GMT 1
TAKEN FROM METRO WEBSITE
Changes to West Yorkshire’s public transport network between Saturday 26 February and Monday 28 February 2022. 9 White Rose Centre • Rothwell • Garforth • Seacroft • Horsforth • Wortley Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Squarepeg This service will be revised to operate a new route via Garforth. The withdrawn section of the current route along Swillington Lane and Neville Grove will be served by revised service 22 operated by Arriva. There will also be a route change in north Leeds to serve King Lane and Cranmer Bank. Most journeys will be retimed by around 10 minutes. The Saturday service will be significantly retimed. Service 9 between White Rose and Horsforth via Pudsey, operated by First, will remain unchanged. 21 22 Seacroft • Halton / Swillington Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Squarepeg / Arriva These services will be operated by Arriva. They will continue to provide a combined hourly service Monday-Friday from Seacroft Bus Station to Colton, with service 21 continuing to Halton Lidl (as now), and service 22 extending to Swillington via Swillington Lane and Neville Grove, replacing the withdrawn section of Squarepeg service 9. The hours of operation will be extended to 0900-1700 (currently 0900-1430). 31 32 Horsforth • Holt Park Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Squarepeg These services will be revised to provide a better service for eastern and southern areas of Horsforth, and to provide a service along Outwood Lane due to customer requests. Some short stretches of the old route with very low passenger usage will be unserved, although they will remain close to the new route. The main service will be numbered 31. Service 32 will provide one return journey from Scotland Way to Horsforth on weekdays.
64 Skipton • Otley Sun 27 Feb 2022 Operated by The Keighley Bus Company There will be a minor route change in Skipton. 80 Old Farnley • Bramley • Owlcotes Centre Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Squarepeg The normal hourly service will be restored. 102 Eastmoor • Wakefield • Lupset • Ossett • Healey Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva This service will be revised to operate between Wakefield and Eastmoor only. Most journeys will be slightly retimed. Evening and Sunday journeys will be significantly retimed. The Wakefield - Ossett - Healey end of the service will be replaced by revised service 120/120A and new service 122. 106 Wakefield • Kettlethorpe • Hall Green Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva The evening frequency will change from half-hourly to hourly. The service will coordinate with the 196 to provide a combined half-hourly evening frequency between Wakefield and Sandal. 110 Wakefield • Outwood • Leeds Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva Journeys towards Leeds City Centre will be diverted via South Accommodation Road and East Street instead of Crown Point Road. 117 Wakefield • Ossett • Shaw Cross • West Ardsley • White Rose • Leeds Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva This service will be withdrawn and partly replaced by new service 122, between Wakefield, Ossett and Shaw Cross; and by revised service 203 between Shaw Cross, West Ardsley, White Rose Centre and Leeds. 119 Wakefield • Horbury • Ossett • Batley Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva This service will be withdrawn and replaced by revised service 120/120A and new service 122.
120 120A Wakefield • Horbury • Ossett • Healey Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva This service will be revised and will operate via the current 102 route round Ossett and will continue to Healey replacing service 102. The Ossett to Batley section will be replaced by new service 122. 122 Wakefield • Lupset • Ossett • Batley Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva This new service will replace service 102 between Wakefield and Ossett, service 117 between Wakefield, Ossett and Shaw Cross, and service 119/120 between Ossett and Batley. The Monday to Saturday daytime service will operate every 15 minutes between Wakefield and Lupset, half-hourly between Lupset and Ossett, and hourly between Ossett and Batley. Between Wakefield and Teall Street it will run via the current 102 route, between Teall Street and Ossett Bus Station via the current 117 route, and between Ossett Bus Station and Batley via the current 119/120 route. The evening service will operate hourly between Wakefield and Ossett. The Sunday daytime service will operate half-hourly to Lupset and hourly to Ossett. 126 127 Wakefield • Lupset • Ossett • Dewsbury Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva The evening frequency will change from half-hourly to hourly, with all journeys operating as service 126. Some additional short journeys from Wakefield to Ossett will operate on Sundays. 135 136 Pontefract • Chequerfield Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva Most journeys will be retimed by 5 minutes. 140 140A 141 Pontefract • Castleford • Leeds Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva Journeys towards Leeds City Centre will be diverted via South Accommodation Road and East Street instead of Crown Point Road. 153 Rothwell • Mickletown • Castleford Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Squarepeg / Arriva This service will be operated by Arriva. The timetable will remain unchanged, except the 1445 school journey from Royds School to Rothwell. This will be renumbered 154 and will be operated by Squarepeg.
154 Middleton • Rothwell • Royds School Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Squarepeg The 0757 journey from Rothwell to Morley will be withdrawn due to very low usage. The 1445 school journey from Royds School to Rothwell, currently numbered 153, will be renumbered 154. 156 Castleford • Ferry Fryston Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva Most journeys will be retimed by around 5 minutes. 158 Castleford • Fryston Village • Airedale • Ferrybridge Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva This new service will operate hourly on Monday to Saturday, largely following the current 188 route, but operating via Stansfield Road (current 184 route) instead of Fryston Road between Fryston Village and Ferrybridge. There will be no evening or Sunday service. 159 Airedale • Ferry Fryston Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva This journey (1439 from Airedale on school days only) will no longer run. 164 Leeds • Garforth • Micklefield • Sherburn • South Milford • Selby Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva The route will be altered to better serve Sherburn Industrial Estate. 167 168 Castleford • Swillington • Leeds Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva Journeys towards Leeds City Centre will be diverted via South Accommodation Road and East Street instead of Crown Point Road. 177 Castleford • Featherstone • Pontefract Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva Most journeys will be retimed by around 5 minutes. Sunday daytime journeys from Castleford will be retimed by around 20 minutes. The Monday-Saturday 2320 Castleford to Aketon Road short journey will be withdrawn. 184 Castleford • Airedale • Pontefract Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva This service will be withdrawn and partly replaced by new services 158 and 186.
186 Wakefield • Normanton • Castleford • Junction 32 • Airedale • Pontefract Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva This new service will operate hourly every day, between Wakefield and Castleford via Normanton, continuing to Pontefract in the daytime but terminating in Castleford in the evening. It will partly replace services 184, 187 and 188. Between Wakefield and Normanton will operate the current 188 route. Between Normanton and Castleford, it will operate the current 187 route. From Castleford it will continue to Junction 32 via Pontefract Road. Between Junction 32 and Airedale it will operate the current 187 route, and between Airedale and Pontefract it will operate the current 184 route. 187 Wakefield • Normanton • Castleford • Airedale • Junction 32 • Pontefract Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva This service will be withdrawn and partly replaced by new service 186. 188 Wakefield • Normanton • Castleford • Fryston Village • Airedale • Ferrybridge • Knottingley Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva This service will be withdrawn and partly replaced by new services 158 and 186. 189 Wakefield • Normanton • Castleford Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva Most journeys will be retimed by around 5 minutes to improve reliability and punctuality. Due to low usage journeys will no longer extend to St Wilfrid’s School or New College Pontefract. Additional early morning journeys will operate on Saturdays at 0431 from Castleford to Wakefield, 0435 Normanton to Castleford and 0453 Wakefield to Castleford. Sunday journeys will be retimed by around 10-15 minutes. 195 196 Wakefield • New Crofton • Ryhill • Hemsworth / Newstead Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva Late evening (after 8pm) frequency will be changed from half-hourly to hourly, with all late journeys operating as service 196 terminating at Newstead. There will be no late evening service beyond Ryhill to South Hiendley and Hemsworth. The 196 service will co-ordinate with the 106 to provide a combined half-hourly evening frequency between Wakefield and Sandal. 200 Leeds • Morley • Birstall • Cleckheaton Sat 26 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva The route will be altered, no longer serving Woodlands Estate in Gomersal or Windsor Road, Howden Clough, reducing journey times.
The Mon-Fri 0547 Cleckheaton to Leeds and Sat 0727 Cleckheaton to Leeds journeys will be withdrawn. Evening short journeys between Leeds and White Rose Centre will be withdrawn. 202 203 Leeds • White Rose Centre • Dewsbury • Mirfield • Huddersfield Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva Service 202 will operate to a revised route in Dewsbury via Bywell Road (current 203 route). Service 203 will operate via the current 117 route round West Ardsley and Westerton, then directly along Leeds Road into Dewsbury. Journeys will be slightly retimed. On Sundays, the 0719 from Dewsbury will terminate at Shaw Cross not Leeds. 212 Wakefield • Alverthorpe • Batley • Dewsbury Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva The route will be altered, no longer serving Marion Avenue and St Pauls Drive. Most journeys will be slightly retimed. Mon-Sat evening short journeys between Wakefield and Alverthorpe will be withdrawn, changing the evening frequency on this section from half-hourly to hourly. 229 Leeds • Birstall • Heckmondwike • Hartshead • Huddersfield Sat 26 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva The timing point at Gildersome will be moved to Wortley Wheatsheaf Junction. Some journeys will be slightly retimed. The route of the service will be unchanged. 231 232 232S Huddersfield • Flockton • Horbury • Wakefield Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva On weekdays, the first journey towards Huddersfield will start from Grange Moor at 0549 (currently starts from Lepton at 0555). On Sundays, the first journey towards Huddersfield will start from Wakefield at 0813 (currently starts from Emley at 0847). Daily, the last evening 232 journey from Wakefield will be retimed to operate 30 minutes earlier at 2213. 256 Brighouse • Cleckheaton • Bradford Sat 26 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva The 1840 Cleckheaton to Brighouse journey will be withdrawn. 268 Wakefield • Dewsbury • Heckmondwike • Cleckheaton • Bradford Sat 26 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva The service will be rerouted in Bradford City Centre, no longer stopping at the Bradford Ice Arena on Little Horton Lane. On Sundays, all journeys will operate the full route to Bradford, increasing the frequency to half-hourly throughout.
280 Dewsbury • Thornhill Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva The evening frequency will be changed from half-hourly to hourly. 281 Dewsbury • Batley • Birstall Retail Park Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva The evening service will be withdrawn. The section round Howden Clough will be replaced by revised service 283A. There will be no evening service to Fieldhead Estate or Birstall Retail Park. 283 283A Bradford • Birstall • Batley • Dewsbury Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva Evening journeys will operate as service 283A via Howden Clough, partly replacing service 281. 408 409 Pontefract • Doncaster Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva Some journeys will be retimed by around 5 minutes. 444 446 Leeds • Rothwell • Stanley • Wakefield Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva Journeys towards Leeds City Centre will be diverted via South Accommodation Road and East Street instead of Crown Point Road. 476 Selby • Ferrybridge • Pontefract • Junction 32 Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva On schooldays, the 1320 from Selby will terminate at Pontefract instead of Junction 32. 493 Pontefract • Knottingley • Ferrybridge • South Milford • Sherburn Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva The route will be altered to better serve Sherburn Industrial Estate 496 Wakefield • Hemsworth • South Elmsall • Upton Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva The last journey will be retimed to accommodate workers at the Next Warehouse in south elmsall
594 Hebden Bridge • Old Town • Crimsworth Circular Sun 27 Feb 2022 Operated by TLC Travel One additional journey will operate each evening, restoring the regular hourly evening service on Monday to Saturday, and a regular 90-minute evening frequency on Sunday. 595 Hebden Bridge • Old Town • Crimsworth Sun 27 Feb 2022 Operated by TLC Travel One additional return trip will operate on Monday to Saturday evenings. 596 Hebden Bridge • Heptonstall • Blackshaw Head Sun 27 Feb 2022 Operated by TLC Travel One additional journey will operate on Monday to Saturday evenings, restoring the regular hourly evening service. A regular 90-minute evening frequency will operate on Sunday. 901 901A Hebden Bridge • Mytholmroyd • Cragg Vale Sun 27 Feb 2022 Operated by TLC Travel The 901 Hebden Bridge to Cragg Vale short journeys will be renumbered to 901A to avoid confusion with the main 901 service between Hebden Bridge and Huddersfield (which will remain unchanged). Most 901A journeys will be retimed by up to 20 minutes. Due to very low usage, late evening journeys will be withdrawn. T1 Todmorden • Cross Lee Sun 27 Feb 2022 Operated by TLC Travel Some early morning journeys will be slightly retimed and will operate to Todmorden Bus Station instead of Todmorden Rail Station. TK1 TK2 Wakefield • TK Maxx Distribution Centre Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva Additional journeys will be introduced. X25 Brighouse • Cleckheaton • Leeds Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva This service will be withdrawn. X80 Normanton • Stanley • Leeds Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva This service will be changed from 4 journeys each way to 2 journeys each way. CT-127-01
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SF07
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Posts: 3,216
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Post by SF07 on Feb 8, 2022 18:23:21 GMT 1
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Post by deerfold on Feb 9, 2022 13:13:13 GMT 1
TAKEN FROM METRO WEBSITE X25 Brighouse • Cleckheaton • Leeds Mon 28 Feb 2022 Operated by Arriva This service will be withdrawn. I'll be sad to see the last vestiges of the 225/X25 Elland to Leeds finally disappearing - not overly surprised when there's so few journeys that it doesn't attract enough passengers. Not that long ago that Brighouse had up to 5 buses an hour to Leeds.
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Post by kommie123 on Feb 10, 2022 8:13:37 GMT 1
Wow I never knew that. I remember the x25. Never more than 2-3 ppl on it before Cleckheaton but a full double decker by Birkenshaw. Then I visited a mate just before first lockdown, half full ahd picked up one person in Hunsworth. Apparently the later arrival into Leeds killed it.
The 225 was always decently used aswell. Poor Hunsworth!
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Feb 10, 2022 8:53:52 GMT 1
When he says 5 buses per hour, he’s talking about the likes of the X6 and M62 and a limited period when all those routes and frequencies existed at the same time rather than the 225/X25 route
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Post by dennisthemenace504 on Feb 10, 2022 12:17:48 GMT 1
Wow I never knew that. I remember the x25. Never more than 2-3 ppl on it before Cleckheaton but a full double decker by Birkenshaw. Then I visited a mate just before first lockdown, half full ahd picked up one person in Hunsworth. Apparently the later arrival into Leeds killed it. The 225 was always decently used aswell. Poor Hunsworth! When 223/224's (Halifax - Leeds via Hunsworth) used to run, they weren't that popular between Cleckheaton and Birkenshaw, passengers for some reason preferred to go via Gomersal to Birkenshaw on the 225/254 as way back then as now, it was 15 min service between Cleckheaton and Leeds. And you could count on one hand, the number of passengers you would pick up at Hunsworth going to either Leeds/Cleck/Halifax/Bradford/Brighouse, and why its the main reason the 256 Cleck to East Bierley is getting withdrawn, residents asked for a later journey to allow them to get home from work, nobody using it
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Feb 15, 2022 19:54:52 GMT 1
Metro have updated the service changes notice, Station Coaches will operate a replacement for the 117 Monday to Friday only initially until more drivers are recruited. It's replacement is the 116 extended beyond Ossett to Shaw Cross, White Rose and Leeds, probably not serving West Ardsley as this is not mentioned in the basic description. First Bradford have announced more cuts to the 72 and X6, along with a number of other services cut due to driver shortages.
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WYBS
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Watch-o
Posts: 1,494
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Post by WYBS on Feb 15, 2022 20:02:40 GMT 1
Metro have updated the service changes notice, Station Coaches will operate a replacement for the 117 Monday to Friday only initially until more drivers are recruited. It's replacement is the 116 extended beyond Ossett to Shaw Cross, White Rose and Leeds, probably not serving West Ardsley as this is not mentioned in the basic description. First Bradford have announced more cuts to the 72 and X6, along with a number of other services cut due to driver shortages. Station Coaches running to Leeds: interesting. More cuts to the already rammed X6s. Can see the railways doing well from this.
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Post by stephen01 on Feb 15, 2022 20:53:56 GMT 1
Metro have updated the service changes notice, Station Coaches will operate a replacement for the 117 Monday to Friday only initially until more drivers are recruited. It's replacement is the 116 extended beyond Ossett to Shaw Cross, White Rose and Leeds, probably not serving West Ardsley as this is not mentioned in the basic description. First Bradford have announced more cuts to the 72 and X6, along with a number of other services cut due to driver shortages. with Station Coaches dropping the 126 and tweaking the 128 by 5 mins throughout
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Username
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I need to get my eyes checked, I've just seen a Streetlite and my eyes are burning
Posts: 1,012
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Post by Username on Feb 15, 2022 22:27:36 GMT 1
From February 27th buses at Halifax Bus Station will then leave from the new temporary bus station at the bottom of the site. List of bus services and stands: A is 576 & C92 B is 22, 681, 682, C14, C78 C is 571, C25, C51 & C52 D is 255 and 508 E is for Layover F is 548 and 549
After 7pm A is 576 B is 20, 22, 561, 562, 681 and 682 C is 526, 536, 537 and 571 D is 255 and 508 E is 574 and 577 F is 549
Services 226/348/349 will no longer pick up from the Bus Station and will use Stop 6 on Market Street. Services 586/587 will also no longer serve the bus station and pick up from Stop 17 on Waterhouse Street.
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69340
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Posts: 463
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Post by 69340 on Feb 15, 2022 23:10:01 GMT 1
Metro have updated the service changes notice, Station Coaches will operate a replacement for the 117 Monday to Friday only initially until more drivers are recruited. It's replacement is the 116 extended beyond Ossett to Shaw Cross, White Rose and Leeds, probably not serving West Ardsley as this is not mentioned in the basic description. First Bradford have announced more cuts to the 72 and X6, along with a number of other services cut due to driver shortages. Station coaches in Leeds is going to be interesting better be streetlites if its going into LCBS or they'll get fined
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Post by Bradford Traveller on Feb 15, 2022 23:10:57 GMT 1
Metro have updated the service changes notice, Station Coaches will operate a replacement for the 117 Monday to Friday only initially until more drivers are recruited. It's replacement is the 116 extended beyond Ossett to Shaw Cross, White Rose and Leeds, probably not serving West Ardsley as this is not mentioned in the basic description. First Bradford have announced more cuts to the 72 and X6, along with a number of other services cut due to driver shortages. Current frequency until 25 February 72 daytime every 15' evening half-hourly X6 daytime every 20' First Bradford are making temporary changes from Sunday 27 February to services 72, 612, 630, 633, 686, 687, 688 and X6.
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Post by stephen01 on Feb 15, 2022 23:31:51 GMT 1
Metro have updated the service changes notice, Station Coaches will operate a replacement for the 117 Monday to Friday only initially until more drivers are recruited. It's replacement is the 116 extended beyond Ossett to Shaw Cross, White Rose and Leeds, probably not serving West Ardsley as this is not mentioned in the basic description. First Bradford have announced more cuts to the 72 and X6, along with a number of other services cut due to driver shortages. Station coaches in Leeds is going to be interesting better be streetlites if its going into LCBS or they'll get fined they've 2 streetlites, the e300 they use on schools and 4 Solos. They may source an extra vehicle to use with the streetlites but what it will be we'll have to wait a couple of weeks to see. Plus does that mean First Halifax have been getting fined when one of the Solos have done 508 in the past when it ran to LCBS
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69340
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Post by 69340 on Feb 15, 2022 23:32:37 GMT 1
Station coaches in Leeds is going to be interesting better be streetlites if its going into LCBS or they'll get fined they've 2 streetlites, the e300 they use on schools and 4 Solos. They may source an extra vehicle to use with the streetlites but what it will be we'll have to wait a couple of weeks to see. Forgot they had the e300 so that's only 3 buses that can be used
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Post by stephen01 on Feb 15, 2022 23:39:44 GMT 1
they've 2 streetlites, the e300 they use on schools and 4 Solos. They may source an extra vehicle to use with the streetlites but what it will be we'll have to wait a couple of weeks to see. Forgot they had the e300 so that's only 3 buses that can be used but the e300 would only be last resort as it's coach layout similar to the Mybus BMC Condors. Unless the buy either the Tempo Lyles have for sale or the Tempo or Versa Hulley's have up for sale
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69340
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Post by 69340 on Feb 15, 2022 23:47:45 GMT 1
Forgot they had the e300 so that's only 3 buses that can be used but the e300 would only be last resort as it's coach layout similar to the Mybus BMC Condors. Unless the buy either the Tempo Lyles have for sale or the Tempo or Versa Hulley's have up for sale Wait and see what the timetable will be like
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Post by stephen01 on Feb 15, 2022 23:55:14 GMT 1
but the e300 would only be last resort as it's coach layout similar to the Mybus BMC Condors. Unless the buy either the Tempo Lyles have for sale or the Tempo or Versa Hulley's have up for sale Wait and see what the timetable will be like deffo. It'll be interesting to see.
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WYBS
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Watch-o
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Post by WYBS on Feb 16, 2022 1:05:23 GMT 1
Station coaches in Leeds is going to be interesting better be streetlites if its going into LCBS or they'll get fined Plus does that mean First Halifax have been getting fined when one of the Solos have done 508 in the past when it ran to LCBS Don't forget when solos used to regularly show up the 757 with Tiger as well.
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