kenh
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Post by kenh on Nov 30, 2020 18:14:13 GMT 1
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Post by steviewevie on Dec 1, 2020 10:12:37 GMT 1
Interesting to see how many have disappeared, been combined and in some cases still exist. The 110 is now more frequent than in 1969 but you have to remember that other services which served parts of the route have gone. Also there are a number of indepents that were taken over by West Riding so even more routes that have gone.
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Post by peteleeds on Dec 1, 2020 10:56:40 GMT 1
Surprised how many services ran from leeds to rothwell. Over the years the frequency and options have really declined
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Post by passenger859 on Dec 1, 2020 13:59:04 GMT 1
These are fascinating, I’m lucky enough to own a hard copy of the 1970 timetable but haven’t looked at it for a while.
The reduction in the number of longer distance routes is something that stands out. Bus travel is very different now I guess. More core routes with less variation. The network has thinned in some areas and strengthened in others and there are bodies to promote coordination between different transport modes.
I presume increased levels of car ownership and reduced local authority funding are two things that have really changed the pattern over the last 50 years. Of course, the changes we’ve seen this year due to the pandemic are still playing out... but that is for a different discussion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 14:27:45 GMT 1
Surprised to see a service from Leeds to Ferry Fryston, I think that could still work today to be honest, combining both the 167 or 168 and the 156/159.
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Post by stephen01 on Dec 1, 2020 15:24:57 GMT 1
Surprised to see a service from Leeds to Ferry Fryston, I think that could still work today to be honest, combining both the 167 or 168 and the 156/159. the 156 & 159 did used to run Leeds to Ferry Fryston whilst Stringers 499 & 500 used to run through to Wakefield. If memory is also serving me as well today i remember that 187 & 188 also used to run to Leeds too before changes. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 15:31:32 GMT 1
Surprised to see a service from Leeds to Ferry Fryston, I think that could still work today to be honest, combining both the 167 or 168 and the 156/159. the 156 & 159 did used to run Leeds to Ferry Fryston whilst Stringers 499 & 500 used to run through to Wakefield. If memory is also serving me as well today i remember that 187 & 188 also used to run to Leeds too before changes. Interesting Leeds to Wakefield 187 and 188? Would have been a nice direct link for me if that went via Altofts, and was still around. |
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kenh
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Post by kenh on Dec 1, 2020 15:36:43 GMT 1
These are fascinating, I’m lucky enough to own a hard copy of the 1970 timetable but haven’t looked at it for a while. The reduction in the number of longer distance routes is something that stands out. Bus travel is very different now I guess. More core routes with less variation. The network has thinned in some areas and strengthened in others and there are bodies to promote coordination between different transport modes. I presume increased levels of car ownership and reduced local authority funding are two things that have really changed the pattern over the last 50 years. Of course, the changes we’ve seen this year due to the pandemic are still playing out... but that is for a different discussion. Also the West Yorkshire rail network had developed. More frequent trains and new lines and stations. That must have affected bus loadings. |
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Post by deerfold on Dec 1, 2020 16:27:57 GMT 1
The reduction in the number of longer distance routes is something that stands out. Looked at one of the other timetables - I used to be able to get home up to 5 times a day from Blackpool with a last service after 2200 during the Illuminations, direct from Blackpool to a bus stop two along from the one outside my house (or 4 along in the other direction). |
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Post by martinsfp on Dec 4, 2020 19:15:52 GMT 1
Didn’t some new rules come in a few years ago limiting the length of bus routes?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2020 20:50:37 GMT 1
Didn’t some new rules come in a few years ago limiting the length of bus routes? Yes, one casualty was the 484 Holmfirth - Leeds which was split at Wakefield |
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Post by deerfold on Dec 4, 2020 22:17:03 GMT 1
Didn’t some new rules come in a few years ago limiting the length of bus routes? Yes, but they're fairly easily sidestepped - like the X5, until recently Oxford to Cambridge, taking 3h20 to go 115 miles. This was registered in 3 or 4 sections. |
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Post by stephen01 on Dec 4, 2020 22:25:07 GMT 1
Didn’t some new rules come in a few years ago limiting the length of bus routes? Yes, one casualty was the 484 Holmfirth - Leeds which was split at Wakefield And 443, 444 & 446 when they used to run Leeds to Barnsley as well. |
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Post by stantheman on Dec 4, 2020 23:10:35 GMT 1
Yes, one casualty was the 484 Holmfirth - Leeds which was split at Wakefield And 443, 444 & 446 when they used to run Leeds to Barnsley as well. I think Leeds to Barnsley via Stanley stopped around 7 years ago. |
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Post by stephen01 on Dec 4, 2020 23:37:47 GMT 1
And 443, 444 & 446 when they used to run Leeds to Barnsley as well. I think Leeds to Barnsley via Stanley stopped around 7 years ago. well at the time it was dropped full the 446 had been shortened to run Leeds to Wakefield and 443 to Wakefield to Barnsley (then that was shortened again to Wakefield ti Hall Green). 444 ran full then got dropped to Leeds to Hall Green with the Wakefield to Hall Green dropped from 444 and re-established as 108 and 443 Wakefield to Hall Green becoming 109. I believe that either the 443 or 446 ran to Leeds University too. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2020 23:41:58 GMT 1
I think Leeds to Barnsley via Stanley stopped around 7 years ago. well at the time it was dropped full the 446 had been shortened to run Leeds to Wakefield and 443 to Wakefield to Barnsley (then that was shortened again to Wakefield ti Hall Green). 444 ran full then got dropped to Leeds to Hall Green with the Wakefield to Hall Green dropped from 444 and re-established as 108 and 443 Wakefield to Hall Green becoming 109. I believe that either the 443 or 446 ran to Leeds University too. Did Arriva used to operate the Denby Dales services before Tiger had them? Saw a couple of photos on flickr with ALX 300's on them |
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Dec 5, 2020 8:34:07 GMT 1
well at the time it was dropped full the 446 had been shortened to run Leeds to Wakefield and 443 to Wakefield to Barnsley (then that was shortened again to Wakefield ti Hall Green). 444 ran full then got dropped to Leeds to Hall Green with the Wakefield to Hall Green dropped from 444 and re-established as 108 and 443 Wakefield to Hall Green becoming 109. I believe that either the 443 or 446 ran to Leeds University too. Did Arriva used to operate the Denby Dales services before Tiger had them? Saw a couple of photos on flickr with ALX 300's on them Bit complex with the Denby Dale routes, Arriva did operate the 484 and I think they were just about around long enough to have ran it in it's through form from Holmfirth to Leeds, although I could be wrong on that part. Now, the thing is, thanks to the Rural Bus Grant a contract for a separate route numbered 935 was put out by Metro some time in the very late 90s, this ran from Wakefield to Denby Dale train station via West Bretton and the main road with the 484 I believe being the route that served the villages off the main route, including Skelmanthorpe. The 935 was initially awarded to a small independent located somewhere in West Yorkshire (I think near Huddersfield) but I can't remember their name. I think it had the word red in it's name. They ran the 935 for a few years before the contract was awarded to Arriva. I'm not sure if anybody else ran the 935 but eventually it was withdrawn with West Bretton being served by a diverted 484 (eve and Sun) and another route (448?) during the daytime. |
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Post by steviewevie on Dec 5, 2020 11:09:17 GMT 1
Arriva split the 44x routes in Wakefield alledgedly due to delays caused in the journey from Leeds. Over the years cross Wakefield services have become almost non-existent with the Dewsbury - Pontefract, Leeds - Barnsley, Leeds - Hemsworth and the aforementioned Leeds- Holmfirth services having been chopped in two. The 484 was actually only a tagging on of the Leeds - Wakefiled section to the existing 484 Wakefield to Holmfirth service when the 482 Leeds - Hemsworth service was chopped. The only cross Wakefield service I can think of now is the 110 apart from local estate services.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Dec 5, 2020 11:14:58 GMT 1
The original 935 operator was Red Arrow Coaches
The reason Arriva split all those long routes won’t have been due to the length regulations. It’ll be so they can simplify their network like most operators have done. In the 90s you’d typically have a corridor running every 10 mins using about 5 different service numbers all branching off in different directions, these days it’s more likely to be a self contained service.
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kenh
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Post by kenh on Dec 5, 2020 17:48:12 GMT 1
Arriva split the 44x routes in Wakefield alledgedly due to delays caused in the journey from Leeds. Over the years cross Wakefield services have become almost non-existent with the Dewsbury - Pontefract, Leeds - Barnsley, Leeds - Hemsworth and the aforementioned Leeds- Holmfirth services having been chopped in two. The 484 was actually only a tagging on of the Leeds - Wakefiled section to the existing 484 Wakefield to Holmfirth service when the 482 Leeds - Hemsworth service was chopped. The only cross Wakefield service I can think of now is the 110 apart from local estate services. Long routes are more subject to delay. For example, explaining to your core Leeds - Wakefield passengers their bus is delayed because of a problem south of Wakefield would be difficult. Not sure many people travel on the 110 from Leeds to Kettlethorpe. |
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Post by tinrocket on Dec 5, 2020 19:22:24 GMT 1
Interesting there being a roughly hourly service between Pontefract and Goole (service 153). I remember a Wednesday-only return journey on the 486 in the late 90s/early 00s but it must be many years since there's been a regular service.
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Post by stephen01 on Dec 5, 2020 19:34:50 GMT 1
I wouldn't mind seeing timetables & route map for the routes 116 (Wakefield-Dewsbury) and 121 (Wakefield-Dewsbury via Batley) that West Riding ran and if anyone has a timetable for 230 (Wakefield-Dewsbury via Batley) that Yorkshire ran (both were operated by Arriva until around 2002-2005 ish).
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Post by irhardy on Dec 5, 2020 22:08:21 GMT 1
Didn’t some new rules come in a few years ago limiting the length of bus routes? There is no rule limiting the length of a bus route. What was introduced a few years ago was that for any bus route over 50km, the vehicles have to be fitted with tachographs and the drivers have to use them. This creates a lot of additional paperwork for the operator as the tachographs have to maintained and also the driver records. This is why a lot of longer routes were converted to be registered in shorter sections (all of which are under 50km in length) so the tachograph rules do not apply. However the drivers have to be changed at the break points of the registration or the tachograph rules will apply. So actually running long services in sections is not a easy as it looks, but it is much easier than having to use tachographs. |
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Post by stantheman on Dec 6, 2020 9:47:40 GMT 1
Arriva split the 44x routes in Wakefield alledgedly due to delays caused in the journey from Leeds. Over the years cross Wakefield services have become almost non-existent with the Dewsbury - Pontefract, Leeds - Barnsley, Leeds - Hemsworth and the aforementioned Leeds- Holmfirth services having been chopped in two. The 484 was actually only a tagging on of the Leeds - Wakefiled section to the existing 484 Wakefield to Holmfirth service when the 482 Leeds - Hemsworth service was chopped. The only cross Wakefield service I can think of now is the 110 apart from local estate services. Long routes are more subject to delay. For example, explaining to your core Leeds - Wakefield passengers their bus is delayed because of a problem south of Wakefield would be difficult. Not sure many people travel on the 110 from Leeds to Kettlethorpe. Regarding the 110, I totally agree. I do wonder what percentage of passengers travel the whole route. I’ve often thought it should be split into two, a Wakefield to Leeds section, and a Wakefield to Kettlethorpe section. |
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Post by peteleeds on Dec 6, 2020 10:31:59 GMT 1
I wouldn't mind seeing timetables & route map for the routes 116 (Wakefield-Dewsbury) and 121 (Wakefield-Dewsbury via Batley) that West Riding ran and if anyone has a timetable for 230 (Wakefield-Dewsbury via Batley) that Yorkshire ran (both were operated by Arriva until around 2002-2005 ish). When i went to school in the 90's the 230 was a rothwell to dewsbury route as i used to catch it in rothwell to school at Lofthouse. It was run by yorkshire wollen as they were back then and was often run using a mini bus. We even had a tv on them at one point but they didn't work very well |
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