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Post by stephen01 on Dec 6, 2020 10:36:07 GMT 1
I wouldn't mind seeing timetables & route map for the routes 116 (Wakefield-Dewsbury) and 121 (Wakefield-Dewsbury via Batley) that West Riding ran and if anyone has a timetable for 230 (Wakefield-Dewsbury via Batley) that Yorkshire ran (both were operated by Arriva until around 2002-2005 ish). When i went to school in the 90's the 230 was a rothwell to dewsbury route as i used to catch it in rothwell to school at Lofthouse. It was run by yorkshire wollen as they were back then and was often run using a mini bus. We even had a tv on them at one point but they didn't work very well the 230 did run Rothwell to Dewsbury but under Arriva it ran Wakefield-Dewsbury via Batley & Dewsbury Hospital. I remember when they trialled TVs on the buses as some of the Lynxes and ALX 200s had them to again literally prior to Arriva takeover.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 12:09:52 GMT 1
Long routes are more subject to delay. For example, explaining to your core Leeds - Wakefield passengers their bus is delayed because of a problem south of Wakefield would be difficult. Not sure many people travel on the 110 from Leeds to Kettlethorpe. Regarding the 110, I totally agree. I do wonder what percentage of passengers travel the whole route. I’ve often thought it should be split into two, a Wakefield to Leeds section, and a Wakefield to Kettlethorpe section. Hope it doesn't get split as I Use it regularly from Crigg to Leeds & back in normal times & usually a few others besides me travelling on beyond Wakefield Bus Station. It would also destroy the history of the bulk of the route has run from Sandal to Leeds over mostly the same route since it started as a tram route in 1905
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Dec 6, 2020 12:26:37 GMT 1
Didn’t some new rules come in a few years ago limiting the length of bus routes? There is no rule limiting the length of a bus route. What was introduced a few years ago was that for any bus route over 50km, the vehicles have to be fitted with tachographs and the drivers have to use them. This creates a lot of additional paperwork for the operator as the tachographs have to maintained and also the driver records. This is why a lot of longer routes were converted to be registered in shorter sections (all of which are under 50km in length) so the tachograph rules do not apply. However the drivers have to be changed at the break points of the registration or the tachograph rules will apply. So actually running long services in sections is not a easy as it looks, but it is much easier than having to use tachographs. Drivers don't have to be changed at break points, that is just one of the options to deal with this. When these revised aspects (routes over 50kms have been subject to the slightly different hours regulations, known as 'Euro Hours', since the mid-80's but until about a decade ago you didn't have to use tachos to record the driving time and if you drive Euro Hours work during a week you are now on these slightly less flexible rules until the drivers next weekly rest which makes driver rostering less flexible) came in there were a couple of ways of operating these split services to have the work counted as domestic: 1. Driver changes at each split (very rarely used as few operators had suitably located locations to do this) 2. The passengers have to disembark & re-board at the split point (a few operators did this early on but it is unattractive and most, or all, stopped once alternative options were clarified) 3. The sections were advertised a separate but connecting service in all publicity (initially this generally led to different but related route numbers for each section & destination blinds that listed the split point - sometimes with the addition of a continuing to the final destination below). Almost everyone uses the 3rd option now and over the years this has been gradually watered down so a single route numbers are commonly used for all registered sections and end destinations are more clearly shown on the destination as operators took a step and didn't get any issues from the authorities (often Stagecoach companies led these steps as they rarely used different route numbers from the start). The issues were that these ameliorating options were only worked out after the legislation was introduced and operators could make clear the impact that the tacho & scheduling requirements would have and so there has always been a lack of clarity about what you could do. I'm not sure many (if any) long distance routes were lost due to these changes to driver hours structure, a few may have been affected by the original introduction in the 80's but not many. Largely the loss is due to cars, for the long urban links like West Yorkshire had is the impact of congestion making routes that serve multiple significant towns increasingly unreliable whilst many of the longer cross country routes saw passenger loss as these services having to serve settlements en-route could never compete on longer distance journey times with cars.
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Post by Penfold on Dec 6, 2020 19:03:07 GMT 1
Long routes are more subject to delay. For example, explaining to your core Leeds - Wakefield passengers their bus is delayed because of a problem south of Wakefield would be difficult. Not sure many people travel on the 110 from Leeds to Kettlethorpe. Regarding the 110, I totally agree. I do wonder what percentage of passengers travel the whole route. I’ve often thought it should be split into two, a Wakefield to Leeds section, and a Wakefield to Kettlethorpe section. This was one of the options a few years back to try an improve punctuality and reliability without putting extra vehicles into the cycle. It was favoured to put extra vehicles into the cycle (hence why 1546, 1946/7 were 'Sapphire'd') rather than cut short or split the route up. Penfold
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Post by stephen01 on Dec 6, 2020 19:17:10 GMT 1
Regarding the 110, I totally agree. I do wonder what percentage of passengers travel the whole route. I’ve often thought it should be split into two, a Wakefield to Leeds section, and a Wakefield to Kettlethorpe section. This was one of the options a few years back to try an improve punctuality and reliability without putting extra vehicles into the cycle. It was favoured to put extra vehicles into the cycle (hence why 1546, 1946/7 were 'Sapphire'd') rather than cut short or split the route up. Penfold 1946 & 1947 have both always been sapphire but were spare vehicles initally but got repainted into the current Sapphire livery. 1546 was the only one upgrade to Sapphire from standrd livery.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2021 17:58:17 GMT 1
Does anyone know if Arriva ran a 411 from Leeds to Knottingley, as I saw a flickr of an ALX400 at Leeds City Bus Station and it's got 411 on the blind, and if it did which route did it go by? Did it go the same way as the 410 does to Pontefract then the same way as 148/149 from Pontefract to Knottingley?
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Jan 28, 2021 18:38:52 GMT 1
Does anyone know if Arriva ran a 411 from Leeds to Knottingley, as I saw a flickr of an ALX400 at Leeds City Bus Station and it's got 411 on the blind, and if it did which route did it go by? Did it go the same way as the 410 does to Pontefract then the same way as 148/149 from Pontefract to Knottingley? I know the original South Yorkshire Motors ran a 411 from Leeds to Knottingley so maybe it was inherited from when Arriva bought them out. Not sure of the route though.
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Post by pontecarlo1 on Feb 1, 2021 22:48:03 GMT 1
Does anyone know if Arriva ran a 411 from Leeds to Knottingley, as I saw a flickr of an ALX400 at Leeds City Bus Station and it's got 411 on the blind, and if it did which route did it go by? Did it go the same way as the 410 does to Pontefract then the same way as 148/149 from Pontefract to Knottingley? Yes they did run this. It ran as per the current 476 route through Ferry bridge missing out Wentcliffe Hill. It also served the new hall estate near Monkhill. So went as per the 184, then right turn off Monkhill Lane, coming out close to the bottom of Nevison. Terminated at Broomhill Avenue (which now gets a total of two buses a day!!)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2021 22:52:21 GMT 1
Does anyone know if Arriva ran a 411 from Leeds to Knottingley, as I saw a flickr of an ALX400 at Leeds City Bus Station and it's got 411 on the blind, and if it did which route did it go by? Did it go the same way as the 410 does to Pontefract then the same way as 148/149 from Pontefract to Knottingley? Yes they did run this. It ran as per the current 476 route through Ferry bridge missing out Wentcliffe Hill. It also served the new hall estate near Monkhill. So went as per the 184, then right turn off Monkhill Lane, coming out close to the bottom of Nevison. Terminated at Broomhill Avenue (which now gets a total of two buses a day!!) Thank you for that much appreciated.
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Post by steve440 on Feb 1, 2021 23:04:00 GMT 1
Does anyone know if Arriva ran a 411 from Leeds to Knottingley, as I saw a flickr of an ALX400 at Leeds City Bus Station and it's got 411 on the blind, and if it did which route did it go by? Did it go the same way as the 410 does to Pontefract then the same way as 148/149 from Pontefract to Knottingley? Yes they did run this. It ran as per the current 476 route through Ferry bridge missing out Wentcliffe Hill. It also served the new hall estate near Monkhill. So went as per the 184, then right turn off Monkhill Lane, coming out close to the bottom of Nevison. Terminated at Broomhill Avenue (which now gets a total of two buses a day!!) In the days of the original South Yorkshire Motors company (i.e. before Arriva) they never ran through from Leeds to Knottingley. Their routes were as follows: Pontefract - Barnsley via Ackworth and Hemsworth (joint with Yorkshire Traction) Pontefract - Selby via Ferrybridge, Knottingley and Whitley Bridge Pontefract - Ferrybridge (Pinders Garth) Pontefract - Doncaster via Ferrybridge, Knottingley and Askern Pontefract - Knottingley (Broomhill Avenue) Saturdays only Leeds - Doncaster via Methley, Pontefract and Barnsdale Bar Leeds - Pontefract (Cobbler Lane Estate) via Methley They also ran for a relatively short period two express services from Pontefract, one to Manchester and the other to Hull
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2021 23:14:35 GMT 1
Does anyone know if Arriva ran a 411 from Leeds to Knottingley, as I saw a flickr of an ALX400 at Leeds City Bus Station and it's got 411 on the blind, and if it did which route did it go by? Did it go the same way as the 410 does to Pontefract then the same way as 148/149 from Pontefract to Knottingley? Yes they did run this. It ran as per the current 476 route through Ferry bridge missing out Wentcliffe Hill. It also served the new hall estate near Monkhill. So went as per the 184, then right turn off Monkhill Lane, coming out close to the bottom of Nevison. Terminated at Broomhill Avenue (which now gets a total of two buses a day!!) Another question: Which way did the 188 Leeds to Wakefield go? Same way as 189 does now?
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joseph
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Post by joseph on Feb 2, 2021 8:02:23 GMT 1
Yes they did run this. It ran as per the current 476 route through Ferry bridge missing out Wentcliffe Hill. It also served the new hall estate near Monkhill. So went as per the 184, then right turn off Monkhill Lane, coming out close to the bottom of Nevison. Terminated at Broomhill Avenue (which now gets a total of two buses a day!!) In the days of the original South Yorkshire Motors company (i.e. before Arriva) they never ran through from Leeds to Knottingley. Their routes were as follows: Pontefract - Barnsley via Ackworth and Hemsworth (joint with Yorkshire Traction) Pontefract - Selby via Ferrybridge, Knottingley and Whitley Bridge Pontefract - Ferrybridge (Pinders Garth) Pontefract - Doncaster via Ferrybridge, Knottingley and Askern Pontefract - Knottingley (Broomhill Avenue) Saturdays only Leeds - Doncaster via Methley, Pontefract and Barnsdale Bar Leeds - Pontefract (Cobbler Lane Estate) via Methley They also ran for a relatively short period two express services from Pontefract, one to Manchester and the other to Hull With the help of Flickr, I've just cleared up something. I always knew they ran a 411 (as well as the 410) but it seems both ran to Doncaster.
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Post by steve440 on Feb 2, 2021 9:43:13 GMT 1
In the days of the original South Yorkshire Motors company (i.e. before Arriva) they never ran through from Leeds to Knottingley. Their routes were as follows: Pontefract - Barnsley via Ackworth and Hemsworth (joint with Yorkshire Traction) Pontefract - Selby via Ferrybridge, Knottingley and Whitley Bridge Pontefract - Ferrybridge (Pinders Garth) Pontefract - Doncaster via Ferrybridge, Knottingley and Askern Pontefract - Knottingley (Broomhill Avenue) Saturdays only Leeds - Doncaster via Methley, Pontefract and Barnsdale Bar Leeds - Pontefract (Cobbler Lane Estate) via Methley They also ran for a relatively short period two express services from Pontefract, one to Manchester and the other to Hull With the help of Flickr, I've just cleared up something. I always knew they ran a 411 (as well as the 410) but it seems both ran to Doncaster. I don't know what happened to the routes after 1994 which is when South Yorkshire was acquired by the Caldaire Group but the above list is what was operated by the independent company in the 1970s and early 1980s.
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Steve Macz403
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Feb 2, 2021 22:51:32 GMT 1
Yes they did run this. It ran as per the current 476 route through Ferry bridge missing out Wentcliffe Hill. It also served the new hall estate near Monkhill. So went as per the 184, then right turn off Monkhill Lane, coming out close to the bottom of Nevison. Terminated at Broomhill Avenue (which now gets a total of two buses a day!!) Another question: Which way did the 188 Leeds to Wakefield go? Same way as 189 does now? Yes, the 189 went down Church Lane, and Pinfold Lane in Methley, where as the 188 went along Lower Mickletown ( like today’s 189) The 188 Leeds - Castleford - Wakefield routing didnt last long, only a year or 2 around 2003-2005 era Before they simplified it back to just 189. 410 Leeds - Pontefract routing has rarely changed. Add the J32 run when that was open. 411 the variant , ran like 189 via Lower Mickletown, direct via Colorado Way once Junction 32 was complete, Missing Glasshoughton , At the time 411 was going to Knottingley Brownhill Avenue. There was a route for a while 414 which took the Pontefract , Knottingley, - Doncaster via Askern section from the 411. 410 was still going to Doncaster via a similar routing to 408. But via Darrington, A1, Wentbridge, Thorpe Audlin, A1, and A638 ( like the 496 when it had its Doncaster runs)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2021 23:09:58 GMT 1
Another question: Which way did the 188 Leeds to Wakefield go? Same way as 189 does now? Yes, the 189 went down Church Lane, and Pinfold Lane in Methley, where as the 188 went along Lower Mickletown ( like today’s 189) The 188 Leeds - Castleford - Wakefield routing didnt last long, only a year or 2 around 2003-2005 era Before they simplified it back to just 189. 410 Leeds - Pontefract routing has rarely changed. Add the J32 run when that was open. 411 the variant , ran like 189 via Lower Mickletown, direct via Colombus Way once Junction 32 was complete, Missing Glasshoughton , At the time 411 was going to Knottingley Brownhill Avenue. There was a route for a while 414 which took the Pontefract , Knottingley, - Doncaster via Askern section from the 411. 410 was still going to Doncaster via a similar routing to 408. But via Darrington, A1, Wentbridge, Thorpe Audlin, A1, and A638 ( like the 496 when it had its Doncaster runs) Thank you for giving me an explanation. Much appreciated, now I know.
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