|
Post by northerner on Aug 20, 2016 23:18:47 GMT 1
3 minutes turnaround at Ilkley is pushing it a little even with a fast driver
|
|
|
Post by Burnside on Aug 21, 2016 21:26:07 GMT 1
If you look closely, they give it 14 minutes from Addingham to Ilkley but only 10 from Ilkley to Addingham so theres an extra 4 minutes of padding time there.
|
|
|
Post by neukit on Aug 21, 2016 21:38:19 GMT 1
If you look closely, they give it 14 minutes from Addingham to Ilkley but only 10 from Ilkley to Addingham so theres an extra 4 minutes of padding time there. Although the Addingham timing points aren't opposite each other, so that will account for a minute or two of the variance. It seems to be fairly standard Transdev practice to pad a few minutes at the end of routes.
|
|
deerfold
Forum Member
Posts: 2,373
Member is Online
|
Post by deerfold on Aug 21, 2016 22:09:24 GMT 1
The current timetable also allows 14 minutes from Addingham to Ilkley. However it only allows 8 in the other direction so there's more chance of a late bus catching up.
There's far more often a queue of traffic into Ilkley than out.
|
|
|
Post by northerner on Aug 22, 2016 22:10:58 GMT 1
It seems to be fairly standard Transdev practice to pad a few minutes at the end of routes. Yes, I forgot Transdev are the bus industry equivalent of CrossCountry for their padding. One 662 arrived in the Interchange this morning 2 minutes after it should have left Valley Parade, which is timetabled for 15 minutes.....
|
|
|
Post by Bradford Traveller on Aug 22, 2016 23:35:02 GMT 1
It seems to be fairly standard Transdev practice to pad a few minutes at the end of routes. Yes, I forgot Transdev are the bus industry equivalent of CrossCountry for their padding. One 662 arrived in the Interchange this morning 2 minutes after it should have left Valley Parade, which is timetabled for 15 minutes..... (Bradford Traveller) first Bradford local routes used to all have 5 minutes built into the times towards the Interchange.
|
|
|
Post by dwarfer1979 on Aug 23, 2016 8:33:44 GMT 1
Yes, I forgot Transdev are the bus industry equivalent of CrossCountry for their padding. One 662 arrived in the Interchange this morning 2 minutes after it should have left Valley Parade, which is timetabled for 15 minutes..... (Bradford Traveller) first Bradford local routes used to all have 5 minutes built into the times towards the Interchange. Fairly standard practice across the industry to one level or another (and this example doesn't sound too outlandish in the amount). Passengers are rarely annoyed by arriving a couple of minutes early, as long as you don't pass the last mid-route timing point early, but it does raise hackles if you are consistently late. Given traffic is inherently a little unpredictable at the best of times most schedulers will err on the side of a normal day's traffic for the intermediate timing points and add a couple (or more) of minutes at the end as a safety margin to assist on-time arrival & presentation for the next journey.
|
|
|
Post by westyorkshirebus on Aug 23, 2016 9:27:22 GMT 1
And bear in mind traffic is at its lightest at the moment, I remember when the X6 used to run through it was normal in school hols to arrive in Bradford before the previous one had left for Leeds at peak times,
|
|
|
Post by northerner on Aug 23, 2016 21:52:58 GMT 1
(Bradford Traveller) first Bradford local routes used to all have 5 minutes built into the times towards the Interchange. Fairly standard practice across the industry to one level or another (and this example doesn't sound too outlandish in the amount). Passengers are rarely annoyed by arriving a couple of minutes early, as long as you don't pass the last mid-route timing point early, but it does raise hackles if you are consistently late. Given traffic is inherently a little unpredictable at the best of times most schedulers will err on the side of a normal day's traffic for the intermediate timing points and add a couple (or more) of minutes at the end as a safety margin to assist on-time arrival & presentation for the next journey. This is the problem though, the bus had left its last timing point early as it arrived 10 minutes earlier than scheduled. It would make sense for interurban routes to have summer timetables to reflect the much lower traffic levels and prevent the current situation of buses running early or spending endless amount of time at various points watching the traffic fly by. Either way it acts as a deterrent to use the bus
|
|
|
Post by stevieinselby on Aug 23, 2016 22:04:42 GMT 1
Fairly standard practice across the industry to one level or another (and this example doesn't sound too outlandish in the amount). Passengers are rarely annoyed by arriving a couple of minutes early, as long as you don't pass the last mid-route timing point early, but it does raise hackles if you are consistently late. Given traffic is inherently a little unpredictable at the best of times most schedulers will err on the side of a normal day's traffic for the intermediate timing points and add a couple (or more) of minutes at the end as a safety margin to assist on-time arrival & presentation for the next journey. This is the problem though, the bus had left its last timing point early as it arrived 10 minutes earlier than scheduled. It would make sense for interurban routes to have summer timetables to reflect the much lower traffic levels and prevent the current situation of buses running early or spending endless amount of time at various points watching the traffic fly by. Either way it acts as a deterrent to use the bus I think having a timetable that changed for the school holidays would be more of a deterrent! It's bad enough when some timetables have odd journeys that run at different times or on a different route on schooldays, but people generally accept them because (a) the times mean they are mostly used by regular passengers who are used to these vagaries, and (b) there is a clear and obvious rationale to the change. But if more buses on more routes started to have timetables that meant they, effectively, sanctioned leaving stops early during the holidays (compared to the other 39 weeks of the year), that will affect a lot more passengers, and a lot more passengers who have no idea about when school holidays are, and so they are more likely to get caught out when they turn up at 10.15 only to find that for the next few weeks the bus leaves at 10.10. But then in other places, traffic can be a lot heavier during school holidays! Main roads heading out of York in the evening peak are generally at their worst during the summer holiday, although other holidays (particularly Christmas) see the usual pattern of less traffic. Normal practice is to have the first few timing points set optimistically, and then subsequent timing points set typically, and the final arrival time set conservatively. That means that buses shouldn't have to wait for time very often, because if traffic is light then drivers can just ease off a bit and not push on so hard once they are past the "optimistic" section of the route – but the bus should only rarely arrive late at the terminus. This doesn't work as well with multi-centred routes like Coastliner and The 36, where you may need an intermediate layover and buses could have a long wait at quiet times – and it does of course depend on traffic being moderately predictable from one day to the next, which isn't always the case!
|
|
|
Post by northerner on Aug 24, 2016 19:14:18 GMT 1
I can see your point, and it would need to depend on each individual route, but I was thinking mainly of the summer holidays rather than all half term weeks. Some routes already do this, such as the Headingley corridor and until this year Transdev Mainline services. A few weeks ago I caught a peak time 662 from Bradford, the bus got held up in traffic, crawled along and still had 4 minutes to wait at Saltaire. It's hardly encouraging to new passengers to have their journeys slowed down unnecessarily
|
|
|
Post by westyorkshirebus on Aug 28, 2016 13:58:00 GMT 1
Regarding the new Yorkshire Tiger 20/21/22 timetables, there are no longer reduced frequencies at school times, so perhaps they won't be using double decks on public routes anymore?
|
|
MT
Forum Member
Excuse me while I kiss the sky
Posts: 544
|
Post by MT on Aug 30, 2016 15:07:08 GMT 1
Regarding the new Yorkshire Tiger 20/21/22 timetables, there are no longer reduced frequencies at school times, so perhaps they won't be using double decks on public routes anymore? Waterloo depot are taking the school contracts from Elland, so there will soon be no deckers based at Elland.
|
|
|
Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 2, 2016 20:41:27 GMT 1
Not mentioned before I don't think, the Tiger Blue 301 has been increased to operate every 15 minutes using 3 buses, rather than every 15-30 minutes using 2 buses as it is currently.
|
|
deerfold
Forum Member
Posts: 2,373
Member is Online
|
Post by deerfold on Sept 2, 2016 21:05:36 GMT 1
Not mentioned before I don't think, the Tiger Blue 301 has been increased to operate every 15 minutes using 3 buses, rather than every 15-30 minutes using 2 buses as it is currently. Currently a 301 operates every 45 minutes and a 302 operates every 45 minutes. As you say, they are currently unevenly spaced.
|
|
SF07
Forum Member
Posts: 3,216
|
Post by SF07 on Sept 4, 2016 10:47:28 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by ianigsy on Sept 4, 2016 13:16:21 GMT 1
Is it my imagination or has that 62 timetable changed in the last few weeks? One of the "minor alterations" I noticed was that whereas in the original timetable (paper copy at my side) the 0550 from Keighley ran through to Harrogate, it's replaced by an 0555 terminating at Ilkley. I'm sure I've seen a version of the timetable which had it turning back at Otley and returning to Keighley at 0700 or thereabouts- to the extent that talking to a friend yesterday who lives in Burley and works at Ingrow that he'd have a direct bus to Keighley in the mornings! I noticed it because it was the service I used between Otley and Pannal while First Leeds were on strike. The return journey also neatly filled a gap in the X84 timetable between Otley and Ilkley, which isn't particularly convenient for anybody in Otley or Burley working in Ilkley town centre- the X84 will get you there at 0812 or 0905, but the 762 offered an 0825 arrival which would be a bit better for anybody with a 9am start.
|
|
|
Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 4, 2016 13:44:47 GMT 1
The 231/232 looks to have had a PVR increase to improve reliability
Buses from Huddersfield leave at the same time but arrive in Wakefield 5 mins later Layover at Wakefield increases from 5 to 15 mins Buses from Wakefield leave 15 mins later and arrive in Huddersfield 17-20 mins later Layover at Huddersfield increases from 5 to 15-18 mins
|
|
deerfold
Forum Member
Posts: 2,373
Member is Online
|
Post by deerfold on Sept 4, 2016 15:02:49 GMT 1
Is it my imagination or has that 62 timetable changed in the last few weeks? One of the "minor alterations" I noticed was that whereas in the original timetable (paper copy at my side) the 0550 from Keighley ran through to Harrogate, it's replaced by an 0555 terminating at Ilkley. I'm sure I've seen a version of the timetable which had it turning back at Otley and returning to Keighley at 0700 or thereabouts- to the extent that talking to a friend yesterday who lives in Burley and works at Ingrow that he'd have a direct bus to Keighley in the mornings! I noticed it because it was the service I used between Otley and Pannal while First Leeds were on strike. The 0555 is not new. It existed before the 0550 to Harrogate was introduced, continued after it was introduced and still exits now the 0550 has been withdrawn again. keighleybus.co.uk/cmsUploads/route/files/762ttMay2016WEB-1.pdfI didn't see any version of the timetable with an early service terminating at Otley. It's disappointing that the last bus in each direction has been withdrawn - there have been a few comments on twitter wondering is af a later last bus could be run.
|
|
|
Post by timelesstable on Sept 4, 2016 16:16:01 GMT 1
The 231/232 looks to have had a PVR increase to improve reliability Buses from Huddersfield leave at the same time but arrive in Wakefield 5 mins later Layover at Wakefield increases from 5 to 15 mins Buses from Wakefield leave 15 mins later and arrive in Huddersfield 17-20 mins later Layover at Huddersfield increases from 5 to 15-18 mins The problem with the 231/2 was they never arrived on time into Wakefield to layover on the old timetable
|
|
|
Post by timelesstable on Sept 5, 2016 6:33:56 GMT 1
I wonder why the 231 requires an additional 2 minutes into Wakefield from the Lupset Hotel. The 231 being allowed 15 minutes rather than the 13 minutes for the 232. Interestingly outbound both services get 12 minutes.
Arriva Yorkshire services 126/7 only allowed 11 minutes both in and out for the same common section of their routes.
My theory for what its worth, the 231 must carry disproportionately more ENTS passengers who require additional time when alighting at the top of Westgate.............................
|
|
|
Post by tyresmoke on Sept 10, 2016 17:43:52 GMT 1
My experience of driving the 126/127 was that the 11 minutes wasn't really possible going into town (unless you got a clear run) - coming out wasn't as much of an issue but again it generally wasn't possible to do it in 11 minutes.
|
|
SF07
Forum Member
Posts: 3,216
|
Post by SF07 on Sept 15, 2016 20:41:03 GMT 1
First picking up another of Yorkshire Tiger's former Leeds routes:
PB0000815/950 - FIRST WEST YORKSHIRE LTD, HUNSLET PARK DEPOT, DONISTHORPE STREET, LEEDS, LS10 1PL Registration Accepted by SN Starting Point: Leeds Student Village Finish Point: Leeds Beckett University Headingley Campus Via: Service Number: 29 Service Type: Normal Stopping Effective Date: 19-SEP-2016 Other Details: During University terms
|
|
|
Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 15, 2016 20:45:27 GMT 1
They've registered that at short notice, it starts on Monday!
|
|
|
Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 16, 2016 18:03:15 GMT 1
Details of the 29 are on the First Leeds website, much reduced timetable compared to what Yorkshire Tiger ran
29 departs Student Village at 0805, 0845, 0915, 1020, 1125, 1230, 1335, 1440, journeys pass Albion Street 7 mins later
29 departs Headingley Campus at 0950, 1055, 1200, 1305, 1410, 1515a, 1605a, 1700, 1735. Journeys marked 'a' continue from Student Village back to Headingley as a circular via Kirkstall Lane
There is also the 29X from Student Village to Headingley Campus direct via Headingley Lane at 0825, and from Headingley at 0845, 1630a and 1720
PVR seems to be one bus all day with an additional 2 in the peaks running single trips. Be interesting how they resource this.
|
|