WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Jan 10, 2016 22:35:51 GMT 1
Alex Hornby just stated that Keighley will be getting new buses this year, not just 'Hand me downs'. It also states that they will not be Streetlites.
So this presumably exludes the ex-36 Gemini's. But what new buses could they be getting? Enviro 200s to replace the darts?
Anybody know anything?
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Post by Burnside on Jan 11, 2016 8:17:48 GMT 1
A reply (not from Alex) says brand new Solo's and transferred Versa's but that can probably be taken with a pinch of salt.
Surprised they're not Streetlites as they come in a range of sizes so could be used to replace Darts or B10BLE's, plus Transdev are big Wrightbus supporters.
I think an Enviro 200 demonstrator has been at Burnley recently (saw a pic on Flickr).
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Post by 576 Gemini 2 on Jan 11, 2016 11:43:31 GMT 1
Be surprised if they are Double Deckers, Blazefield/Transdev last bought a new for Keighley in 1993 901-904 Alexander RH Leyland Olympians for the 760.
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Post by Dom on Jan 11, 2016 16:09:14 GMT 1
A reply (not from Alex) says brand new Solo's and transferred Versa's but that can probably be taken with a pinch of salt. Surprised they're not Streetlites as they come in a range of sizes so could be used to replace Darts or B10BLE's, plus Transdev are big Wrightbus supporters. I think an Enviro 200 demonstrator has been at Burnley recently (saw a pic on Flickr). I'm placing my money on Optare... 'Buy Locally', we look after our community sort of anecdotes they could come up with |
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Post by B521UWW on Jan 11, 2016 17:09:55 GMT 1
Versa's no good for keighley, they tested one years ago and it grounded on local routes. Sure capacity could be an issue on interurban routes (and reliability). Think they may be ok on 717/719's.
I thought transdev were stung with reliability issues on the Harrogate/Lancashire Optares hence they went with Wrights again...
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Jan 11, 2016 17:26:50 GMT 1
A reply (not from Alex) says brand new Solo's and transferred Versa's but that can probably be taken with a pinch of salt. Surprised they're not Streetlites as they come in a range of sizes so could be used to replace Darts or B10BLE's, plus Transdev are big Wrightbus supporters. I think an Enviro 200 demonstrator has been at Burnley recently (saw a pic on Flickr). This morning in Keighley Bus Station I actually overheard the Duty Manager mention getting Versas to a driver. He said it as though they were definitely coming. |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jan 11, 2016 18:39:56 GMT 1
No doubt lots of rumours and know it alls from drivers and enthusiasts alike, where basically any available type is definitely the ones that are coming. A case of wait and see patiently in my opinion.
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Post by SCH117X on Jan 11, 2016 19:26:48 GMT 1
Whilst Keighley getting new vehicles is probably correct the tweet from Alex was unspecific so its covers Coastliner, York, Harrogate, Keighley, Burnley and Blackburn. A fair chunk of the 52 new vehicles will be accounted for by the new B5s for the 36 and whatever gets ordered for Coastliner. Of the refurbs they will no doubt be largely the lower emission refits, plus the pair of Geminis refurbed for further use on the 36 and those going for use on the Cityzap.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jan 11, 2016 19:40:00 GMT 1
Alex also says at least 18 are going to Lancashire, so probably leaves about 10 for Keighley (assuming York aren't getting anything new, and Harrogate aren't getting anything additional to the "36" buses)
Obviously going to either be single decks to replace some renowns or small buses to replace some darts, but it's debateable which is more of a priority.
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Post by northerner on Jan 11, 2016 20:18:53 GMT 1
Alex also says at least 18 are going to Lancashire, so probably leaves about 10 for Keighley (assuming York aren't getting anything new, and Harrogate aren't getting anything additional to the "36" buses) Obviously going to either be single decks to replace some renowns or small buses to replace some darts, but it's debateable which is more of a priority. I'm sure I read Alex had said Keighley are getting 10 vehicles, and there's currently 10 Darts in the fleet which are now having reliability issues which is routinely affecting the services, so I'd guess they will be a priority. And the Keighley locals have been neglected for a number of years now in terms of improvements |
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Post by SCH117X on Jan 11, 2016 21:25:09 GMT 1
Found a further tweet by Alex confirming Keighley will get new buses but no numbers specified Alex Hornby alextransdev · Jan 9 @wharfedaleline Keighley will receive new buses this year |
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on Jan 11, 2016 21:35:36 GMT 1
Posted elsewhere by Alex himself
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Post by B521UWW on Jan 13, 2016 10:40:50 GMT 1
Following on from the 9 new in burnley and 2 new in Keighley would suggest streetlites, and that adds up to 53 not 52 originally stated.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Jan 13, 2016 19:41:43 GMT 1
Coastliner are getting new buses whilst Keighley are stuck with Renowns, Darts and Presidents. It's Pathetic.
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Post by timelesstable on Jan 13, 2016 20:42:58 GMT 1
Coastliner are getting new buses whilst Keighley are stuck with Renowns, Darts and Presidents. It's Pathetic. It's business you put the investment where the return is. |
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Post by titan1641 on Jan 13, 2016 21:40:49 GMT 1
Coastliner are getting new buses whilst Keighley are stuck with Renowns, Darts and Presidents. It's Pathetic. Erm... What about the 10 new buses for Keighley mentioned two posts up from yours?? |
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Post by northerner on Jan 13, 2016 23:11:48 GMT 1
Coastliner are getting new buses whilst Keighley are stuck with Renowns, Darts and Presidents. It's Pathetic. It's business you put the investment where the return is. I'm sure the 760 must be a highly profitable route and certainly deserves better than 15 year old Presidents. When you look at Max which Arriva are expanding across many interurban routes in to Leeds it really does highlight the difference in quality between the 2 operators |
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Post by WYBS on Jan 13, 2016 23:43:05 GMT 1
Coastliner are getting new buses whilst Keighley are stuck with Renowns, Darts and Presidents. It's Pathetic. Erm... What about the 10 new buses for Keighley mentioned two posts up from yours?? It's great that we're finally getting some new buses but how long has it been since a large fleet overhaul? I would have thought that the 760 is their most profitable/ most used route (possibly along with the 662). It is much more well used than the Harrogate 36, yet they get brand new buses, run every 15 minutes with luxury seats and wifi. We get old presidents with different interiors and no wifi. The 760 should currently be every half an hour (often up to 40 - 50 minutes at peak periods!) not to mention it always running at least 10 minutes late. In my opinion it should be at least every 20 minutes with decent gemini's. Nevermind though, the 36 needs new buses! The current gemini's aren't luxurious enough! |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jan 13, 2016 23:56:37 GMT 1
It's business you put the investment where the return is. I'm sure the 760 must be a highly profitable route and certainly deserves better than 15 year old Presidents. When you look at Max which Arriva are expanding across many interurban routes in to Leeds it really does highlight the difference in quality between the 2 operators I expect the 760 is profitable but I wouldn't say it is extremely profitable. Remember it competes with one of the most successful train services in the county, takes an age, suffers horrendous traffic congestion at half a dozen different locations, and runs through some affluent areas that won't be good traffic drivers. The fact that First's services in the area are a bit of an after thought as well probably supports this. The 36 is completely different beast, there wouldn't be constant new buses if this wasn't the case. Plus the fares on the 760 will be lower as you don't have the premium that is generally charged and accepted in rural counties. You can tell what is happening in Keighley. They are attempting to grow the business with what they have got, hoping this will lead to increased profitability in the future. Bronte Bus branding, increased 66, extended 762 and probably improvements to the 760 once some Gemini's arrive. |
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Post by northerner on Jan 14, 2016 8:05:12 GMT 1
I'm sure the 760 must be a highly profitable route and certainly deserves better than 15 year old Presidents. When you look at Max which Arriva are expanding across many interurban routes in to Leeds it really does highlight the difference in quality between the 2 operators I expect the 760 is profitable but I wouldn't say it is extremely profitable. Remember it competes with one of the most successful train services in the county, takes an age, suffers horrendous traffic congestion at half a dozen different locations, and runs through some affluent areas that won't be good traffic drivers. The fact that First's services in the area are a bit of an after thought as well probably supports this. The 36 is completely different beast, there wouldn't be constant new buses if this wasn't the case. Plus the fares on the 760 will be lower as you don't have the premium that is generally charged and accepted in rural counties. You can tell what is happening in Keighley. They are attempting to grow the business with what they have got, hoping this will lead to increased profitability in the future. Bronte Bus branding, increased 66, extended 762 and probably improvements to the 760 once some Gemini's arrive. The 760 does have it problems, but Transdev don't help themselves either. Since the timetable was changed last September the 760 has been worse than ever - they actually reduced running time on journeys which frequently ran late. The peak time journeys are timed quite poorly - if you live in Greengates and start work in Leeds at 9 you have to get the bus shortly after 0730 - hardly encouraging people to use it! This particular journey runs late most days too, often around 20 minutes late. Then in the evening there's a gap from Leeds between 1553 and 1635. However the 1635 is also prone to late running - I've seen the 1655 leave before it more than once. Combined with the standard of bus used on the route Transdev are doing very little to encourage people to use it and these issues are entirely within their control |
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Post by stevieinselby on Jan 17, 2016 18:15:09 GMT 1
Coastliner are getting new buses whilst Keighley are stuck with Renowns, Darts and Presidents. It's Pathetic. The buses go where they are most needed and the investment most effectively used. Coastliner buses do long, high-speed journeys where they run extensively at 50 or 60mph and cover 70–80 miles in one go, with passengers on board for up to 3–3½ hours. Over many sections of the route, they compete with regional train services, so they have to offer an excellent service in order to attract passengers ... and it is hard going for the buses, so they only run them like that for a few years before moving them to less strenuous duties elsewhere. Keighley buses are mostly local routes. By my reckoning, during normal daytime service, there are about 8 diagrams that run on journeys of over 1 hour, 25 more diagrams that run on journeys of over half an hour, and another 16 diagrams that run on journeys of less than half an hour end-to-end, not counting school services. Local journeys in Keighley and Bradford, where passengers are typically only on the bus for 10–15 minutes are never going to priorities for new buses – there's nothing wrong with 12 year old Darts on routes like that and no reason why they should be replaced for a few years yet, not until they become uneconomical to keep on the road. The main "long" route is the 760, which is predominantly in 30mph limits – there may be small sections of 40 but I'm pretty sure there is nothing more than that – where traffic speeds are low, newer buses don't have as much of an advantage over older buses for passenger comfort, if the old buses are still in reasonable nick. Yes, I would say that the Renowns and Presidents probably should be replaced within the next year or two, depending on what condition they are in, but do they need to be replaced with brand new buses? Not necessarily – not if there are other buses that they can acquire second-hand that are suitable for the routes. A second-hand Eclipse or Gemini (eg from Coastliner or Harrogate) would be absolutely fine for services like the 664/665, 696/697 and 760. |
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Post by northerner on Jan 18, 2016 20:55:27 GMT 1
Coastliner are getting new buses whilst Keighley are stuck with Renowns, Darts and Presidents. It's Pathetic. Local journeys in Keighley and Bradford, where passengers are typically only on the bus for 10–15 minutes are never going to priorities for new buses – there's nothing wrong with 12 year old Darts on routes like that and no reason why they should be replaced for a few years yet, not until they become uneconomical to keep on the road. The main "long" route is the 760, which is predominantly in 30mph limits – there may be small sections of 40 but I'm pretty sure there is nothing more than that – where traffic speeds are low, newer buses don't have as much of an advantage over older buses for passenger comfort, if the old buses are still in reasonable nick. Yes, I would say that the Renowns and Presidents probably should be replaced within the next year or two, depending on what condition they are in, but do they need to be replaced with brand new buses? Not necessarily – not if there are other buses that they can acquire second-hand that are suitable for the routes. A second-hand Eclipse or Gemini (eg from Coastliner or Harrogate) would be absolutely fine for services like the 664/665, 696/697 and 760. Unfortunately the Darts are becoming unreliable - it's quite common to see a B7/B10 covering for for one on the 703 or 706. And original Keighley Darts 706 and 707 have been drafted back from Blackburn presumably in an attempt to ease the vehicle shortage. If the Keighley B10s have a refurb they would look a lot better and they still seem reliable given their age. I can't say I blame Transdev for wanting to hold on to them as long as possible. The sooner the Presidents go the better, they are unreliable, rattly and leak water when it rains |
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Post by gooderson1 on Jan 18, 2016 22:46:01 GMT 1
If a passenger is using a bus for a coastliner trip for 2/3 hours or a run from Keighley/Harrogate into Leeds then comfort should be the order of the day. However a 10/15 shopping trip does not really need luxury what ever the vehicle used
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Post by stevieinselby on Jan 19, 2016 0:04:42 GMT 1
If a passenger is using a bus for a coastliner trip for 2/3 hours or a run from Keighley/Harrogate into Leeds then comfort should be the order of the day. However a 10/15 shopping trip does not really need luxury what ever the vehicle used I guess the question there is how many people DO use the 760 from Keighley to Leeds, and how many people are just using it for short hops. I don't know the route well but I would expect a much greater churn and a higher proportion of passengers making journeys of <30 minutes than on Coastliner or The 36. |
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Post by B521UWW on Jan 25, 2016 17:44:33 GMT 1
New buses are 6 x solo's for town services, to replace darts, 4 versa's for skiptons.
Been informed some of the 450 batch are getting refurbished for the Harrogate service.
Also I hear no ex 36 gemini's are coming here, more than likely will go to Lancashire to release more presidents for Keighley instead.
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