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Post by SCH117X on Jun 21, 2015 13:42:18 GMT 1
Complex history, the 6. Transdev ran it every 20 minutes then cut it back to 45 minutes and re -routed it so that it no longer served a community centre or the business park (hence the Transdev X6 to the business park, while the 6 was rerouted eventually back via the community centre and increased in frequency to 40 minutes). HCT meanwhile had indicated they would extend some X1s to cover the lost Transdev journeys but nothing happened. Finally it was the NYCC cutbacks which resulted in the HCT x4/x6/x6a/x12 interworkings. The 6 has recently been increased to 30 minutes with it just in front of the x6/x6a, largely due to the interworking with the quarter hourly 3 which also interworks with the half hourly 2B. To have the 6 running at a greater separation the times of the half hourly 2A and 2B would need to be swopped so that a 15 min frequency along the core 2A/2B route is retained.
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Post by SCH117X on Jul 1, 2015 19:00:46 GMT 1
According to NYCC all x6/6a (apart from the 1730) and x12s run 5 mins earlier, and x4s run 10 mins earlier which means most x6/6a dep the bus station at the same time as the 6!
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on Jul 1, 2015 19:11:35 GMT 1
According to NYCC all x6/6a (apart from the 1730) and x12s run 5 mins earlier, and x4s run 10 mins earlier which means most x6/6a dep the bus station at the same time as the 6! So absolutely no chance of the X4s actually running on time then, as the X6 get stuck in traffic coming in past the exhibition Centre and usually only just getting to the bus station in time to do The X4, so with five minutes less they'll end up late on the X4.
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jc
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Post by jc on Jul 4, 2015 16:55:52 GMT 1
Talking of the First York changes, something else I can't fathom is why (according to First's own site, iTravel and the Press haven't picked up on it) the 10 is going to run every 35 minutes. There's been various anecdotes of buses struggling to keep to time on that route, but they're shortening the route by diverting away from Holgate and a one-way loop around Stamford Bridge... So why force everyone to consult a timetable every time they travel? Are they trying to save a bus? Working on the principle that most passengers at the top end of Acomb will be using the 5 instead so it doesn't matter too much if they lose enough passengers from Poppleton that they end up reducing it further?
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Post by SCH117X on Jul 11, 2015 22:44:30 GMT 1
Not surprising HARROGATE & DISTRICT TRAVEL LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, STARBECK, HARROGATE, HG2 7NYCancellation Accepted: Operating between Harrogate Bus Station and Pannal Ash Roundabout given service number 4/5 effective from 30-Aug-2015.
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Post by js12345678910 on Jul 12, 2015 9:21:17 GMT 1
Not surprising HARROGATE & DISTRICT TRAVEL LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, STARBECK, HARROGATE, HG2 7NYCancellation Accepted: Operating between Harrogate Bus Station and Pannal Ash Roundabout given service number 4/5 effective from 30-Aug-2015. That's great for connexions buses!
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Post by SCH117X on Jul 12, 2015 12:14:34 GMT 1
Not surprising HARROGATE & DISTRICT TRAVEL LTD, PROSPECT PARK, BROUGHTON WAY, STARBECK, HARROGATE, HG2 7NYCancellation Accepted: Operating between Harrogate Bus Station and Pannal Ash Roundabout given service number 4/5 effective from 30-Aug-2015. That's great for connexions buses! Not certain how, the custom between the bus station and the hospital via High Harrogate is pretty low so the impact on the x4 cannot have been that great. Seemed strange services from the outset as previous services to the hospital rather than Knaresborough Road next to the hospital have always failed.
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Post by js12345678910 on Jul 12, 2015 22:38:56 GMT 1
That's great for connexions buses! Not certain how, the custom between the bus station and the hospital via High Harrogate is pretty low so the impact on the x4 cannot have been that great. Seemed strange services from the outset as previous services to the hospital rather than Knaresborough Road next to the hospital have always failed. Exactly so if half of the custom went to Transdev Connexions would only get half but if transdev don't run the service connexions would at least get all the custom for the x4!
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Post by northrob on Jul 15, 2015 11:25:52 GMT 1
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Post by stevieinselby on Jul 15, 2015 18:19:34 GMT 1
And as usual the First York timetables are badly presented and hopelessly inadequate for passengers :-(
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Post by davopazza on Jul 15, 2015 18:53:32 GMT 1
And as usual the First York timetables are badly presented and hopelessly inadequate for passengers :-( Where does the Monks Cross shuttle (99) go. All I can see us that it departs then arrives back around 10 minutes later.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jul 15, 2015 19:51:40 GMT 1
It goes from Monks Cross Park and Ride to Monks Cross itself. It was introduced when the 9 went to electric buses, so they can terminate and hence charge up at the park and ride site.
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jc
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Post by jc on Jul 15, 2015 20:40:24 GMT 1
Here's a challenge for First. Proofread the 6/6A (ghostbus) timetable.
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Post by stevieinselby on Jul 15, 2015 21:44:08 GMT 1
It goes from Monks Cross Park and Ride to Monks Cross itself. It was introduced when the 9 went to electric buses, so they can terminate and hence charge up at the park and ride site. Which is fair enough ... but the timetable on their website just shows it leaving the P&R and arriving back at the P&R, and nothing else, which is shite. The paucity of timing points, and unnecessary duplication of rows, across most of their timetables makes them of very little us. Trying to work out what is going on at the Acomb end of the 5/5A (especially as they are still showing the old map with the new timetable) is mission impossible.
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on Jul 16, 2015 7:19:07 GMT 1
It goes from Monks Cross Park and Ride to Monks Cross itself. It was introduced when the 9 went to electric buses, so they can terminate and hence charge up at the park and ride site. Which is fair enough ... but the timetable on their website just shows it leaving the P&R and arriving back at the P&R, and nothing else, which is shite. The paucity of timing points, and unnecessary duplication of rows, across most of their timetables makes them of very little us. Trying to work out what is going on at the Acomb end of the 5/5A (especially as they are still showing the old map with the new timetable) is mission impossible. A bit like the timetable for the 66, which without a map to accompany it, doesn't give any indication that it serves the Rail Station, which is surely one of the most important stops on the route.
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Post by stevieinselby on Jul 16, 2015 7:49:14 GMT 1
Yes, it's an argument that I've been having with Arriva about (1) reducing the number of timing points doesn't in and of itself mean a service will be more reliable, (2) if passengers have to allow enough time for the earliest running at every interpolated stop, this reduces the convenience of the service because they have to get to the stop earlier to make the same journey, (3) with Google Maps and Traveline and some operators' own websites giving stop-by-stop times, passengers will assume that those are the departure times and won't expect to have to be at the stop 5 minutes early, and (4) the public timetable should reflect what passengers want/need to know, NOT the logistical and operational details of the company.
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Post by SCH117X on Jul 23, 2015 22:58:03 GMT 1
PB0001873/31 - YORKSHIRE COASTLINER LTD, PROSPECT PARK, STARBECK, HARROGATE, HG2 7NYVariation Accepted by SN: Operating between Nether Poppleton and Stamford Bridge given service number 10 effective from 02-Aug-2015. To amend Route and Timetable.
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Post by stevieinselby on Jul 24, 2015 6:56:47 GMT 1
PB0001873/31 - YORKSHIRE COASTLINER LTD, PROSPECT PARK, STARBECK, HARROGATE, HG2 7NYVariation Accepted by SN: Operating between Nether Poppleton and Stamford Bridge given service number 10 effective from 02-Aug-2015. To amend Route and Timetable. Aha, someone has finally caught on!
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jc
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Posts: 431
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Post by jc on Jul 24, 2015 13:59:47 GMT 1
PB0001873/31 - YORKSHIRE COASTLINER LTD, PROSPECT PARK, STARBECK, HARROGATE, HG2 7NYVariation Accepted by SN: Operating between Nether Poppleton and Stamford Bridge given service number 10 effective from 02-Aug-2015. To amend Route and Timetable. Aha, someone has finally caught on! Wouldn't a short notice change just be the council asking them to change the evening/Sunday route to match first? Thinking about what I put before regards the 6 route, I was speaking to somebody back when the 5 terminated at Station Road who told me (maybe someone can confirm) that they wouldn't let you board at Station Road and you had to walk round to the Station Ave stop on the other side. I'm sure there's plenty of people who change onto the 6 at Rougier St from east of York, but forcing people to cross 2 busy roads to get to (for arguments sake) the hospital is a bad solution IMHO.
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Post by stevieinselby on Jul 24, 2015 17:35:30 GMT 1
Aha, someone has finally caught on! Wouldn't a short notice change just be the council asking them to change the evening/Sunday route to match first? Thinking about what I put before regards the 6 route, I was speaking to somebody back when the 5 terminated at Station Road who told me (maybe someone can confirm) that they wouldn't let you board at Station Road and you had to walk round to the Station Ave stop on the other side. I'm sure there's plenty of people who change onto the 6 at Rougier St from east of York, but forcing people to cross 2 busy roads to get to (for arguments sake) the hospital is a bad solution IMHO. Yes, I assume the change to the Transdev 10 is someone belatedly realising that the evening services need to be rerouted in line with the daytime service. The new timetable for the 6 definitely shows inbound buses setting down at Station Road and outbound buses picking up at Station Avenue, and the rules say that passengers should not be carried between the two as the bus is not in service. I would guess drivers will be pretty strict about the rules. I agree that it's not at all passenger-friendly to reduce the number of passengers with a direct bus to the hospital and not to pick up anywhere on the "inside" the inner ring road.
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on Jul 24, 2015 21:01:25 GMT 1
Wouldn't a short notice change just be the council asking them to change the evening/Sunday route to match first? Thinking about what I put before regards the 6 route, I was speaking to somebody back when the 5 terminated at Station Road who told me (maybe someone can confirm) that they wouldn't let you board at Station Road and you had to walk round to the Station Ave stop on the other side. I'm sure there's plenty of people who change onto the 6 at Rougier St from east of York, but forcing people to cross 2 busy roads to get to (for arguments sake) the hospital is a bad solution IMHO. Yes, I assume the change to the Transdev 10 is someone belatedly realising that the evening services need to be rerouted in line with the daytime service. The new timetable for the 6 definitely shows inbound buses setting down at Station Road and outbound buses picking up at Station Avenue, and the rules say that passengers should not be carried between the two as the bus is not in service. I would guess drivers will be pretty strict about the rules. I agree that it's not at all passenger-friendly to reduce the number of passengers with a direct bus to the hospital and not to pick up anywhere on the "inside" the inner ring road. When the 5 was "just" City to Strenstall, we used to start & finish on Station Rise, as did the 6 (I think) when that "just" ran City - Osbaldwick. No buses ran dead from one stop to another that I can recall, although the 27A to Leeman Road technically could have around the right turn at the far end of the one way system. When I first started in 2001 (before the Metro changes) I was once taken into see a manager about carrying 3 passengers "dead" from Murton to the University after doing a Y15 (the ordinary 15 carried on as a 4 from Osbaldwick). The case was soon closed when I pointed out that I had done that as the previous 'driver' had sold them through tickets - the person in question being that same manager interviewing me lol
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Post by stevieinselby on Jul 25, 2015 8:28:30 GMT 1
When the 5 was "just" City to Strenstall, we used to start & finish on Station Rise, as did the 6 (I think) when that "just" ran City - Osbaldwick. No buses ran dead from one stop to another that I can recall, although the 27A to Leeman Road technically could have around the right turn at the far end of the one way system. It depends where the registered departure point was. Back then, there were still the stop on Station Rise as well, so it may well be that the buses were booked to layover and resume from Station Road. With the loss of the Station Rise stops and the introduction of the 59 at those stops, it could be that TPTB feel there isn't the capacity at those stops any more and that's why the 6 is now booked to start from Station Avenue. Yes, according to my archives, the 5 and 6 were both registered from Station Road, making it a different situation from this time round.
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Post by stevieinselby on Jul 28, 2015 22:02:01 GMT 1
So it turns out that, with the exception of the Connexions 13, which at first glance looks to be OK, Traveline have completely bollocksed up every single change in York that is taking place next week, despite them claiming to have timetable data up to 21 August.
First 4 - No timetable found. <sigh>
First 5 - Traveline shows the revised route and times for the 5 (via the station as well as the new route in Acomb) but still shows the 5A running via Leeman Road at the old times. BTW, I've just noticed that this service is not every 15 minutes, it's roughly 4 buses every 65 minutes, and so the times change pretty much every hour, which is just frickin' stupid and unhelpful, showing no consideration for passengers.
First 6 - Traveline shows buses running from Burton Green to Clifton Moor only and nothing in the reverse direction. The times they have given don't tally up with what is shown on First's website.
First 10 - looks fine from Stamford Bridge to Poppleton, but for Poppleton to Stamford Bridge it still shows the old route and times.
First 13A - route description of Acomb to Haxby (not mentioning Copmanthorpe) still shown but redirecting to Connexions 13.
First U56 - no evidence of this service at all.
First U66 - no evidence of this service at all.
Transdev 44 - still shows current route and times, with no mention of the extension to Acomb.
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Post by stevieinselby on Aug 2, 2015 9:28:30 GMT 1
The latest idiocy in this saga is that the U66 is going to run via Piccadilly, the same as the 44, instead of Clifford Street, which has had the/a main university service for 20 years or more.
No way on earth can Piccadilly cope with that many buses. It's already struggling as it is, and buses are frequently queueing up and backing up other traffic – not helped by the awkward angled bays for the P&R and 44 heading out of town – particularly when term starts again in October and there's an extra 8 buses an hour in each direction, it's going to be chaos.
Meanwhile, Clifford Street – a whole 3 minutes' walk away – will be virtually empty. A clear case of putting petty rivalry ahead of common sense.
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on Aug 2, 2015 14:10:26 GMT 1
The latest idiocy in this saga is that the U66 is going to run via Piccadilly, the same as the 44, instead of Clifford Street, which has had the/a main university service for 20 years or more. No way on earth can Piccadilly cope with that many buses. It's already struggling as it is, and buses are frequently queueing up and backing up other traffic – not helped by the awkward angled bays for the P&R and 44 heading out of town – particularly when term starts again in October and there's an extra 8 buses an hour in each direction, it's going to be chaos. Meanwhile, Clifford Street – a whole 3 minutes' walk away – will be virtually empty. A clear case of putting petty rivalry ahead of common sense. Do you not think that the routing could be specified as part of the contract. If what I've heard is correct, then the route is going to be University - Piccadilly - Clifford Street - Nunnery Lane - Station - Rougier Street - Piccadilly - University. Can anybody confirm if that's what's actually happening.
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