Over the Mersey wall

[sconehead85]

The moniker "sconehead" is a Scouse term of affection of sorts and I am starting this thread to give you some of the latest bus happenings in this area, know worrimean la? The title comes from a 1960s column in the Liverpool Echo (evening paper) written by a George Harrison, but not the famous one.

It will cover events in MERSEYSIDE and anywhere not to far away. Its a flexible boundary.

The not-so-merry month of March sees Arriva raising Liverpool area FLAT fare to £2.10. Good news for our "black taxi" and private hire cab trade who can give short distance passengers a cheaper ride than the buses. When the competition muppets of the OFT complain about the lack of competition, they FORGET the cab trade. Where Arriva go, the other operators in the city, Stagecoach, Cumfybus , HTL and Halton Transport soon follow.

I fear service cuts are next as the fares have reached the ceiling of what the public are prepared to pay. Incidentally MERSEYTRAVEL (the ITA for the area) only charge £1.10 on MOST tendered services. I think this should go up to £1.50 to protect subsidised routes.

Arriva DAY and WEEKLY tickets are available, as are Merseytravel SAVEAWAY Day and SOLO/TRIO season tickets, just to put things into perspective.

As for BUS news 34 of the 44 Volvo B5LH hybrid DDs are due to enter service with ARRIVA at Laird Street Birkenhead for the tunnel services. I have a feeling there will be teething troubles with these buses, I think a demonstrator should have been tried out on the tunnel routes first just to test how the DE and E modes function on the tunnel gradients.
link with
10 MAN Eco-City buses have entered service on 1 March on Arriva Runcorn Busway routes 1/2. These are 5000-9.

The Arriva step-entrance era SHOULD end by Easter when the ex MTL Volvo Olympians 3313/32 SHOULD be withdrawn, ending the Arriva practice of using the on supposedly Quality Bus 82 and 86 routes. Other members of the R-WVR batch of MTL Volvo Olympians, which were dubbed the "Millennium Fleet" when new in June 1998 are at Southport, and in Bolton and Winsford. Their demise will leave the 76xx Marshall Capital bodied Dennis Dart SLFs of 1999 as the last link with the much un-miissed Merseybus or MTL.

More news when I can be bothered to type it!

sconehead85

[MetrolineGA1511]

I feel a bit out of tune with developments in Liverpool, as I seem to go to West Yorkshire and London more often. If anything I get a taste of Mersey air buswise in St Helens more often, being nearer to home and visitable in the winter, even though it is not actually on the Mersey. From what I can tell, most new buses for Arriva in Liverpool recently have been Pulsar 2s, with only the leather-seated ones on route X1 standing out, and even these are technically Runcorn machines. The Volvo B5LH will be a welcome initiative, but even these are Birkenhead machines and should be similar to buses coming to Castleford and Manchester. I doubt I shall be coming to Liverpool this year.

[sconehead85]

met1511- The main purpose of the thread is to bring Merseyside and adjuncts news to youse!

sconehead85

[sconehead85]

Just 3313 left of the step entry fleet, and with Arriva NWs hybrids in course of delivery this vehicle is probably in its last fortnight of service. The five R-WVR in Southport have been appearing on normal services in March, but with ex London DLAs being displaced these too should finish at Easter. Southport went all LF in 2011 but then extra school contracts meant the transfer of Volvo Olympians in Southport.

I am loth to say that all Merseyside bus routes will be LF operated after Easter, because Peoplesbus still have a few Volvo B10B/B10Ms . I will state that non-school services should be all LF after Easter in Merseyside.

The Volvo B5LHs are due to enter service on cross-river services 407, 432, 433, 437, 464, 471 and 472 on 24 March. Im not sure whether they will appear on night buses N23, N37 and N450 which apart from the Runcorn N5 service are shamefully the onl.y all night weekend buses in Liverpool.

On the subject of all-night buses, there has always since 1956 been an all-night tunnel bus when overnight Mersey Ferries were withdrawn. Originally operated by Liverpool and Birkenhead Corporations, then Merseyside PTE, the service, now numbered 150 is a subsidised route in the small hours of Mon-Fri, and N450 RUNS early Sats/Suns. From 1998 MTL, then Arriva caved in to requests for weekend night buses, and for a decade they were successful and even had competition from Glenvale but from 2008 all the Liverpool services were withdrawn largely due to the greed of the bus operators who are happy to run night buses at lower fares in Manchester or Preston. There is also the myth that a drunk Liverpudlian is more anti-social than other cities, which is utter baloney.

So except for Wirral and Runcorn clubbers, those resident in Liverpool suburbs have to rely on the cab trade to get home.

sconehead85

[MetrolineGA1511]

In a change of plan, I paid an inmpromptu visit to Runcorn, Liverpool and Birkenhead today. I was looking forward to riding a Volvo B5LH and EcoCity, and am concerned that they will not be running in Manchester and Darlington respectively on Sundays or Bank Holidays. I caught trains to/from Runcorn East then buses as follows:

2 to Halton Lea - EcoCity 5001
79c to Childwall - Cadet 2546
61 to Allerton Road - Enviro 400 4417
86 to Liverpool - refurbished Volvo B7TL-ALX400 4128
27 to Wavertree Road - Pulsar 2 3148
79 to Liverpool - Gemini integral 4449
487 to Birkenhead - refurbished Cadet 2446
437 to Liverpool - Volvo B5LH-Gemini 4532
X1 to Runcorn East - leather-seated Pulsar 2 3136

I noticed how, with a few exceptions most notably the Volvo B7T-ALX300s, all Arriva buses in central Liverpool seem to have Wrightbus bodies. The Enviro 400s seem confined to radial routes.

[sconehead85]

met1511- I might take it here to point out that a new batch of VDL SB200/Wrightbus Pulsars are creeping into service 3147-9 are at Green Lane.

Step entrance Volvo Olympian 3313 is still being seen, sometimes on supposedly quality routes 82/86 (if they must use this bus I dont see why it cant be sent out on the frequent but otherwise non-special 79/79D services) . 3313s tax disc expires at the end of the month.

Southport has received ex London DLAs from Bootle, displaced by former tunnel ADL Enviro E400s, returning Southport to the all LF status it had before acquiring new school contracts which gave some of the R-WVR Volvo Olympians a stay of execution of 12 months.

If Arriva are to stick to the 15 year age group in Merseyside then the 22xx/23xx/76xx Dennis Darts, DAFs numbered in the 24xx series (below 2480), Volvos 2701-32 and MAN 2825-9 will need to be replaced during 2014-16, we are talking of 260 single deckers here. Some of the single decks replaced could spend a year or two in less age-fussy regions where hundreds of ageing Darts remain.

I forgot to mention the 8xx series Darts, but this could send replacement needs into 300 or so few of these run in Merseyside.

Expensive times ahead!

I have mentioned Impera Buses of Moreton before, an operator trying to build a network on the Wirral peninsula. They have one route 39
from New Brighton-Moreton-West Kirby whose history has been chequered to put it mildly. Wirral has Arriva, Stagecoach anmd Avon providing commercial services and TBH these are all Wirral needs. Impera have been trying other links , a Moreton-Bromborough service (47), a Birkenhead-Wallasey service (16). These are USEFUL links but are they commercial? Not only that but Impera are trying to have a second attempt at a Liverpool rouute after the fiasco of route 30 in 2012. One route is a 1A Liverpool-Birkenhead-Seacombe-New Brighton and the other is a 98 from Liverpool-Moreton. The 1A is up against a high frequency Arriva 432/433 using state-of-the-art hybrid buses. (Impera are using ten-year-old Dennis Darts). The 98 is an "original" route but once again Liverpool struggles to cope with the pre-Impera incursion as lines of buses jostle around the streets like fervent pilgrims around a religious statue. Liverpool, as I have said many times before, has less space to accommodate buses than it did before 1986 with pedestrianisation of central streets in 1988 and the closure of the Pier Head Bus Station in 1990

Liverpool's bus station facilities are hopeless or in the wrong part of the city centre..

I dont expect Impera to be around very long-they are expanding too quickly on routes of questionable demand.

sconehead85


sconehead85

[MetrolineGA1511]

I see what you mean about poor bus station facilities Sconehead. I couldn't easily find notices at Queen Street telling us where to board our bus. I had to go into the Travel Centre to see such a poster. What about people visiting on a Sunday for example?

I saw no DLAs so evidently they are most if not all at Southport. I kinda think this their spiritual home as I rode one on a Wigan-Southport rode in 2010. DLA65-71 were older examples and, while I rode one on route 82 in 2011, I am not surprised that these no longer seem to run in Liverpool.

[Jack]

May 5, 2013 21:04:42 GMT 1 MetrolineGA1511 said:

I see what you mean about poor bus station facilities Sconehead. I couldn't easily find notices at Queen Street telling us where to board our bus. I had to go into the Travel Centre to see such a poster. What about people visiting on a Sunday for example?

I saw no DLAs so evidently they are most if not all at Southport. I kinda think this their spiritual home as I rode one on a Wigan-Southport rode in 2010. DLA65-71 were older examples and, while I rode one on route 82 in 2011, I am not surprised that these no longer seem to run in Liverpool.

The Travel Centres are open on a Sunday during shopping hours.

[MetrolineGA1511]

In a way Arriva Merseyside is the most distinctive former PTC in the country. Most others are in the hands of Stagecoach and First. Although West Midlands Travel is owned by National Express, their latest standard buses are Enviro 400s and Volvo B7RLE-Eclipses, matching Stagecoach and First respectively. So, as Arriva Merseyside are concentrating on Volvo B5LH or Gemini integrals, and VDL-Wright Pulsar 2s, their vehicle specification is unique among former PTCs!

[sconehead85]

metroline1511- Stagecoach have been in a commanding second place on Merseyside starting this year, and their buses appear throughout the Merseytravel area .

sconehead85

[sconehead85]

3313, the last former MTL double decker in its home county was withdrawn on 31st May. It was based at Speke depot and was the last step entrance bus in REGULAR service in Liverpool although other companies still use them for school transport.

However 40 -odd former MTL Dennis Dart/Marshalls in the 76xx series are still running, not all in Merseyside, and former MTL 0224/7 , which were 25 years old last month, are open top Leyland Olympians/Alexander bodies on what may be their final season in Rhyl.

Back to Merseyside Southport have regained a step entry bus in the form of 3615, V615 LWT, a DAF DB250 which is slightly newer but mechanically similar to the ex London DLA class buses. Three Volvo Olympians (3362-4) remain at Bolton. 3615 could find some use on the summer Pontins shuttle.

sconehead85

[sconehead85]

Saturday, 15th June- Something which made the UK headlines today is the second sinking in Liverpool of a World War II General Motors DUKW amphibious landing craft converted for use as a tourist bus. These are known as "Ducks" and can be used on land and shallow water and the US Army left them after use on D-Day in 1944.

The first sinking took place on Saturday, 30th March at an awkward time for Liverpool Duck Tours as two former drivers had taken the company to a tribunal after they were dismissed for raising safety concerns about the DUKWs. This sinking, in the shallow but muddy water of the Albert Dock only affected four people in March but today's incident, on a sunny June day far more serious as 31 people were aboard and they had to be recued by lifeboats and a helicopter. 27 people were taken to hospital but all have been discharged. The March event led to an appointment with the Traffic Commissioner, who let LDT off with a warning, but this time I think its the end for these amphibious tours.

Those two men who were sacked deserve a medal and some hefty compensation, along with those who were nearly drowned.

DUKW tours run in London and other places, and I wonder whether these will be stopped after this near disaster.

sconehead85

[driver6540]

Last time i was in Liverpool, (maybe about 18 months ago) I'd planned to have a go on one of these "Wacker Quacker" things. But time ran out and i didn't get the chance, Looks like I wont now. Best wishes to all affected by saturdays incident.

[www.buseireann.ie]

Theirs a lot of debate over the safety of these things on Radio 2 today (Jeremy Vine) from experts/operators and the general public who have used them. Interesting views from tourists who have used them, some said they were fine just because they didn't encounter any problems, on the flip side one man said he could put his hand into the water when one he was on entered the River Thames and he felt it was too close for comfort, he wondered if it had sunk how he would be able to get all his kids out, one woman said her children were allowed to take the controls of one (she didn't say where it was operated from) and she wasn't given any safety briefing, another tourist this time in Liverpool was told of the sinking of the vessel in March (I'm guessing as part of a safety briefing) just as the craft she was on entered the water! An expert did shed some light as to why it sunk fast, He said these vessles need to be filled with as much foam as possible to aid buoyancy, if it's underfilled extra external buoyancy aids need to be fitted, importantly he said if all this is done correctly then these boats should not sink! On a personal note I must stress the last point has not been proven to be a cause of why it sunk and an investigation most likely will commence shortly.

[sconehead85]

I must point out that HRH FID DEF DEI GRAT IND COOPE-VATQueen Elizabeth II (all bow and curtsey) was on board Wacker Quacker I earlier on this year. However the company Yellow Duckmarine are in deeper doo-doo with the Traffic Commissioner after this latest incident.

It appears a dumped tyre fouled the propellers on Saturday but there are also allegations that H & S has not been uppermost in their operation. This will all come out in the public enquiry.

By the way the prefix for the Queen came from the late Spike Milligan.

sconehead85

[SF07]

Looks like Cumfybus are making some more advances into Greater Manchester, as they're listed as operating the 553 and 559 in Bolton from next month:

www.transportforgreatermanchestercommittee.gov.uk/tfgmc/downloads/file/4620/item_09_forthcoming_changes_to_the_bus_network

[MetrolineGA1511]

Jun 10, 2013 17:29:45 GMT 1 sconehead85 said:

3313, the last former MTL double decker in its home county was withdrawn on 31st May. It was based at Speke depot and was the last step entrance bus in REGULAR service in Liverpool although other companies still use them for school transport.

However 40 -odd former MTL Dennis Dart/Marshalls in the 76xx series are still running, not all in Merseyside, and former MTL 0224/7 , which were 25 years old last month, are open top Leyland Olympians/Alexander bodies on what may be their final season in Rhyl.

Back to Merseyside Southport have regained a step entry bus in the form of 3615, V615 LWT, a DAF DB250 which is slightly newer but mechanically similar to the ex London DLA class buses. Three Volvo Olympians (3362-4) remain at Bolton. 3615 could find some use on the summer Pontins shuttle.

sconehead85

So, with the Marshalls in the process of being withdrawn, soon Arriva will have no MTL or 20th century legacy in Liverpool. I still have happy memories of my 1996 visit to Liverpool when MTL had such a cosmopolitan fleet, with sone new buses but also Atlanteans and acquisitions, most notably ex-London Titans.

[northrob]

Jun 19, 2013 2:02:45 GMT 1 sconehead85 said:

I must point out that HRH FID DEF DEI GRAT IND COOPE-VATQueen Elizabeth II (all bow and curtsey) was on board Wacker Quacker I earlier on this year. However the company Yellow Duckmarine are in deeper doo-doo with the Traffic Commissioner after this latest incident.

It appears a dumped tyre fouled the propellers on Saturday but there are also allegations that H & S has not been uppermost in their operation. This will all come out in the public enquiry.

By the way the prefix for the Queen came from the late Spike Milligan.

sconehead85

The company has now been put into administration.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-23009846

[sconehead85]

metroline1511- You describe the 1996 fleet run by MTL as "cosmopolitan". I would say, despite MTL'S belated attempt at renewal the Leyland Atlanteans and ex London Titans were largely CLAPPED OUT and would have had to struggle on until 2008 at MTL'S replacement rate. The Titans did grind on until 2006 under the best forgotten Glenvale. Shed no tears for MTL either.- the 90s were a depressing decade and I almost gave up the bus hobby.

sconehead85

[MetrolineGA1511]

MTL also took other acquisitions such as Metrobuses and Leyland Nationals. It occurs to me that, with the MTL takeover by Arriva and the Yorkshire Traction Group by Stagecoach, there are few if any major operators who rely on acquired vehicles. That said, I am aware of First having acquired ex-Veolia stock and more recently ex-Jersey stock.

Sort-of following on from an earlier post, it will seem intrigiung when Arriva is all-Wright in Liverpool apart from the ALX400s on route 86 group and bendis on route 500!

[Deleted]

Jun 30, 2013 17:41:10 GMT 1 MetrolineGA1511 said:

with the MTL takeover by Arriva and the Yorkshire Traction Group by Stagecoach, there are few if any major operators who rely on acquired vehicles. !

I`d Class Centrebus as a large company who rely mainly on Acquired Vehicles

[MetrolineGA1511]

Jul 23, 2013 23:41:12 GMT 1 @cp2012 said:

Jun 30, 2013 17:41:10 GMT 1 MetrolineGA1511 said:

with the MTL takeover by Arriva and the Yorkshire Traction Group by Stagecoach, there are few if any major operators who rely on acquired vehicles. !

I`d Class Centrebus as a large company who rely mainly on Acquired Vehicles

Ah yes, CentreBus are quite large, when you allow for them being successors to some former NBC operations such as in Huddersfield, Grantham, Hinckley and Buxton.

Seeing you mention CentreBus in this thread has made me wonder whether CentreBus could one day come to Merseyside by taking over CumfyBus, PeoplesBus or Avon Buses for example? Arriva and Stagecoach would probably not receive OFT clearance to take these over.

[sconehead85]

Firstly, the TC has revoked the licence held by Pearlwild, the DUKW/Duck tour operator, the remaining vehicles have been repossessed by creditors. So DUKWs only run in London and Dublin now.

I wish to relate a tale about an unlucky batch of DAF SB220 LF buses owned by Arriva. These had Alexander ALX300 bodies, but they seem to be ending their days having engine fires. The batch ran from 2401-15, the first three were withdrawn without incident, but the latest to burst into flames this week was 2404. At least six of the batch have been destroyed wholly or partially by fire in their middle age.

Its a bit worrying as Arriva have many SB220s, but its the Alexander bodied ones which seem to self combust. It may be that Arriva might rid itself of the remaining members of the 2405-15 series ahead of the ex MTL 76xx Marshall Darts which at least don't go up in flames!

Finally Halton have bought another three ex Blackpool Optare Solos, these are now numbers 58-60. The Solos are oddly enough the oldest buses with Halton. Im surprised that no Dennis Darts have been replaced by 55-60.

sconehead85

[Arriva Wakefield]

Aug 23, 2013 14:27:20 GMT 1 sconehead85 said:

Firstly, the TC has revoked the licence held by Pearlwild, the DUKW/Duck tour operator, the remaining vehicles have been repossessed by creditors. So DUKWs only run in London and Dublin now.

I wish to relate a tale about an unlucky batch of DAF SB220 LF buses owned by Arriva. These had Alexander ALX300 bodies, but they seem to be ending their days having engine fires. The batch ran from 2401-15, the first three were withdrawn without incident, but the latest to burst into flames this week was 2404. At least six of the batch have been destroyed wholly or partially by fire in their middle age.

Its a bit worrying as Arriva have many SB220s, but its the Alexander bodied ones which seem to self combust. It may be that Arriva might rid itself of the remaining members of the 2405-15 series ahead of the ex MTL 76xx Marshall Darts which at least don't go up in flames!

Finally Halton have bought another three ex Blackpool Optare Solos, these are now numbers 58-60. The Solos are oddly enough the oldest buses with Halton. Im surprised that no Dennis Darts have been replaced by 55-60.

sconehead85

2401-2403 were the ex London Prestige's R151-153GNW, not ALX300's

[sharksmith]

Off topic I know but Arriva lost an arctic to fire in Malta last night as this video clip shows.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxBsO2eSAQs