First bus fare changes from 1st August 2010

[SF07]

First have announced they'll be putting the prices for tickets from the 1st August.

*FirstDay WY ticket now £4.30 (meaning it'll be cheaper to buy a FirstDay ticket to travel in West Yorkshire on journeys starting from Greater Manchester on 184, 589 and 590)
*FirstDay Leeds ticket now £3.40
*FirstDayOut ticket now £2.00
*FirstWeek Green ticket now £12.00
*FirstWeek Leeds no longer available
*FirstWeek WY now £18.50 - ticket can also be bought from PayPoint locations in West Yorkshire from 15th August 2010.

FirstWeek tickets in Bradford, Calderdale and Huddersfield plus FirstDay Family and Friends and FirstMonth tickets remain unchanged

www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/fare_changes/Fares_change_1st_August_-_V2_Leeds.pdf
www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/fare_changes/Fares_change_1st_August_-_V1_HHTB.pdf

Also First York tickets aare changing from this Sunday (25th July)
Single fares at £1, £1.60, £1.90 and £2.70 go up by 10p, the £3 return fare goes up 20p, the FirstNight ticket is £2.60 and the chlid ticket is now 70p

www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/fare_changes/York_V2.pdf

[A1YBG]

so much for keeping the fares frozen. Did'nt take long did it.

[timelesstable]

Jul 19, 2010 16:34:19 GMT 1 A1YBG said:

so much for keeping the fares frozen. Did'nt take long did it.

First are still advertising their current fares on those hop about Leeds adverts. I wonder if they start to advertise a more expensive hop before the end of the month!

[A1YBG]

Maybe a Hop Across district. i.e Hop across to Bradford from Leeds etc

[Matty]

They are changed in Calderdale & Huddersfield as I recieved an e-mail from them giving me the new prices. The conductor on the ftr in Leeds was warning everyone that bought a day ticket today.

Them old prices were just right, especialy £4 for a First Day instead of £4.30, that is just stupid!

[SF07]

£4 was a nice round number for a day ticket. More of a hassle with First Manchester at £4.10, as it has meant a lot of 90p change given out, as people pay with a £5 note.

[westyorkshirebus]

I remember when fares used to go up in 10p increments. Thesedays it's 30p at a time. It'll be £4.50 next.

When the route branding started on the 363/508/576 etc, I think FirstDay was £2.50. They've changed those brandings more times than I've had hot dinners.

[the110]

Wonder if this will give Arriva the upper hand now they will be cheaper in many ways. And lets not forget Arriva WY weekly is still only £16 compared to First's £18.50

[redthunder]

I also wondered how long they'd keep the Green Zone ticket at £10.00 after they extended the boundaries, but a £2 increase?? I remembered when they brought them out all these years ago it was something like £5 a week!!!!!

[Matty]

Plus there is no need to increase fares as First have a fixed fuel price & it is a lot cheaper than the petrol stations.

[Jack]

Jul 20, 2010 8:41:36 GMT 1 the110 said:

Wonder if this will give Arriva the upper hand now they will be cheaper in many ways. And lets not forget Arriva WY weekly is still only £16 compared to First's £18.50

Don't you still have to buy your weekly ticket from a PayPoint outlet though? That is probably more inconvenient than being able to walk on the bus and buy a ticket.

[SF07]

Jul 20, 2010 17:04:08 GMT 1 Jack said:

Jul 20, 2010 8:41:36 GMT 1 the110 said:

Wonder if this will give Arriva the upper hand now they will be cheaper in many ways. And lets not forget Arriva WY weekly is still only £16 compared to First's £18.50

Don't you still have to buy your weekly ticket from a PayPoint outlet though? That is probably more inconvenient than being able to walk on the bus and buy a ticket.

Arriva weekly tickets are only available from PayPoint locations or as a m-ticket. Cannot be bought from the driver, whereas the FirstWeek ticket is still be available from the driver.

But with Arriva's tickets being cheaper than First's from next month, I wonder how many people will switch from First to Arriva on routes run by both companies. Even Centrebus will be cheaper than First.

Routes by both companies (Frequent services):
*Cross Gates-Leeds: 40/40A/56 (First) -> 163/166 (Arriva)
*Garforth-Leeds: 18/18A -> 163/166
*Hunslet Road-Leeds 12/13/13A/85/87 -> 110/167/168/189/410/444/446
*White Rose Centre/Dewsbury Rd-Leeds: 2/3/3A -> 117/202/203/217/220/221/222/481
*Morley-Leeds: 51/55/64/64A/X55 -> 220/221/222
*Morley-White Rose: 64/64A/87 -> 220/221/222
*Dudley Hill-Bradford: 617/618/620 -> 253/256/283/425/427
*Waterloo/Moldgreen-Huddersfield: 370/371/372 -> 80-85/231/232/241 (Hudds Bus)
*Marsh-Huddersfield: 370/371/372/537/538 -> 319/360/366/900/901 (K-Line)

[the110]

Jul 20, 2010 17:04:08 GMT 1 Jack said:

Jul 20, 2010 8:41:36 GMT 1 the110 said:

Wonder if this will give Arriva the upper hand now they will be cheaper in many ways. And lets not forget Arriva WY weekly is still only £16 compared to First's £18.50

Don't you still have to buy your weekly ticket from a PayPoint outlet though? That is probably more inconvenient than being able to walk on the bus and buy a ticket.

Agree but to save £2.50 a week I would make the extra effort to find a paypoint outlet. Or even at current prices get a 4 weekly from Arriva's website and get 10% off which is a £6 saving at £54 compared to First's £60. No inconvenience there as its delivered straight to your door.

www.arrivabus.co.uk/multi-journey-saver-tickets-in-yorkshire/

[mjn]

Jul 20, 2010 10:50:45 GMT 1 Matty said:

Plus there is no need to increase fares as First have a fixed fuel price & it is a lot cheaper than the petrol stations.

Yes they get the BSOG, but I'm not sure whether that actually changes in relation to fuel prices? They do hedge their fuel also but who knows what price was agreed and when, prices have been fluctuating a lot lately but it is true they are up on last year. Petrol station price comparisons are meaningless, it's their overall operating costs and revenues that dictate fares, though I think First do demand high profit margins. Unfortunately this sort of nonsense will probably continue unless margin demands go down, I doubt if even quality contracts could save us, it all depends on who bids and how much they want. Hopefully savings will not be achieved simply by squeezing the pay and conditions of employees.

[Jack]

Fuel usually only accounts for roughly 13% of bus operating costs according to TAS. As the bus industry is labour intensive, 61% of your operating costs are labour costs with driving staff being 39.7% of your overall operating costs. So if your bus is stuck in traffic, then just over 50% of your operating costs are increasing whilst revenue isn't. Hence, why bus priorities are so important as Ray keeps mentioning on here!

Also, don't rattle on about 'fat cat shareholders' as only 14% on average only go in dividends to shareholders. The largest proportion of profit actually goes on servicing debt, re-investment of the fleet etc.

MJN mentions BSOG, obviously this could come under scrutiny under the coalition government. If this was to be scrapped, I'm sure fare rises of late would be insignificant to possible future fare rises if this was to happen.

[Matty]

But how is a small rise on fares going to help First in any way, they are already making a very large profit so there is no need to higher the fares.

[rwilkes]

1.5p in every £1 of income whether from fares or public payments goes to shareholders. Profits just have to be the average of the FTSE 250 if you are a publicly quoted company.
Centrebus is private equity, they can chose deferred gratification, build it up and make your money when you sell it on.
Or you can be non profit making community transport run my a council officier on up to £100k
Pay your money and take your choice. At the end of the decade it will be companies like First most likely to give best value for money. I say most likely. The future is not set in stone.
But as someone quoted me, if you want good bus services and happy bus drivers, bus priority is what we need.

[SF07]

Quote from Richard Harris, new Commercial Director at First WY:

"Over the past 15 months, First has worked hard to keep its fares down and our fares have not risen in this time.

"During this time we have faced an economic backdrop of rising costs to the business in areas such as pensions, as well as administration costs such as insurance and utility prices.

"We have now reached the point that we have had to look at changing some of our fares to ensure our business can meet these rising costs."

There's also a debate on Twitter, called #leedsdebate. Some people have been saying it'll be cheaper to do journeys on the train rather than First bus.

www.guardian.co.uk/leeds/2010/jul/20/first-leeds-buses-price-increase

[rwilkes]

It is cheaper on trains than buses because Metro subsidise train fares. Metro are outraged at having to pay bus companies to run uneconomic services and pay compensation for loss of pensioners fares but quite happy to pour money into rail services, 'because they specify the rail services'. Many are shuffling air about in a very expensive manner. You never hear them complain abt First rail profits, only abt First bus profits. Logical isn'it?

[westyorkshirebus]

I don't know what trains you've been on that are only shuffling air about?

[westyorkshirebus]

Jul 20, 2010 10:32:25 GMT 1 redthunder said:

I also wondered how long they'd keep the Green Zone ticket at £10.00 after they extended the boundaries, but a £2 increase?? I remembered when they brought them out all these years ago it was something like £5 a week!!!!!

First always do this type of thing. Increase cash fares but promote the fact that FirstDay etc are frozen one week, then a few months later increase FirstDay etc seperately.

They should have increased the price of the FirstWeek Green a few weeks ago when the Simple Fares started, instead of saying how much better value the newly extended green zone was!

[SF07]

Would have thought it would have made more sense to have done it all at the same time rather than have the SimpleFares in June and then the FirstDay/Week increase in August.

[fwybuses]

YEP are blaming it on them loosing the tenders. After tonight's performance i hope centrebus take more tenders off first.

Having a service not run at all is a total disgrace. They are getting paid to run this, and fail do so, this is saying to metro (in my eyes) that they are taking advantage of WYMetro, because they know that they are the only company that would put in the tender. With centrebus now in the running, i can see them loosing these tenders if they carry on with missed services. Wonder if a lawyer could right up a complicated contract that states if a service does not run they don't get payed becuase they havn't run it.

[SF07]

Would make sense, given the timing. Fares going up shortly after losing contracts to Centrebus. Unless it's just a "coincidence"

[mjn]

I think you would struggle to find a rail service in West Yorkshire that is not rammed to the rafters at peak times. I often see this sort of 'modal bias' in things like Buses magazine as well, you know the sort, always nay-saying tram projects and going on about how it should be a bus instead so they can 'prove themselves', never accepting that each mode has its place. It is ridiculous to suggest that trains are somehow a waste in West Yorkshire whilst buses are not, looking at the figures the reverse is true if anything! Not that we shouldn't be trying to bring buses up to scratch of course, they serve a different purpose.

I think it is perfectly reasonable for public bodies like Metro to have an influence on rail services, after all a lot of money is thrown at these companies in what seems to be a very expensive money go round for both passenger and government and they need some idea of where it's going. The same is true of buses, tendered services would be far more worthwhile if they weren't being chopped and changed every few months in a desperate game of catch up with commercial services, trying to plug the gaps on a limited budget in a way that usually leads to complex and convoluted services, all those evening and sunday variations of route and operator, and the like. And yes, a properly planned and contracted network could go some way to alleviating this. Bus lanes are an important part of the picture in terms of their effect on reliability, journey times, availability of resources etc and I have never argued with this, but that's it, they are part, not the be all and end all as some suggest. Frankly, on major routes, we should be able to ask whether buses are the best mode for the job at all.