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Post by Craig on Jan 2, 2009 18:10:25 GMT 1
I don't think that the 73 new buses will only be used on those 3 services, unless the frequency is dramatically improving!
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Post by jackh on Jan 2, 2009 20:50:48 GMT 1
Something that has slipped the net is the 91/91A will form a Monday to Saturday daytime frequency of every 15 minutes.
The 91 will be Pudsey to St James' Hospital. The 91A Bramley to Halton Moor.
It is nice to see that sevices that run around the suburbs of Leeds and not through the city are getting improved as I it is something that should of been done ages ago. I just hope that First promote the improvement well so people can be aware of being able to get from one part of the city to the other without going into the Centre!
Also, I would of thought that First could send the 91A perhaps via Meanwood centre via Shaw Lane, Monkbridge Road, Stonegate Road and Stainbeck Lane to normal route with the possibilty of no extra resources required to do so.
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Post by Craig on Jan 2, 2009 21:05:15 GMT 1
Slipped the net? Back on Christmas Eve, "hanovers" informed us that...
91 To run every half hour between Bramley Centre and Halton Moor. 91A To run every half hour between Pudsey Bus Stn and St James's Hospital via Bramley Centre.
OK, there seems to be debate over which service is numbered 91 or 91A, but other than that it's the same thing. Agree with you about routing one of the services via Meanwood though, especially as the 38 is being cut to hourly so it would retain and actually improve on the current service level towards Headingley and Kirkstall.
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Post by jackh on Jan 2, 2009 21:17:00 GMT 1
Slipped the net? Back on Christmas Eve, "hanovers" informed us that. Yes, my bad. Misread that on thinking it was the current 91/91A arrangement of 91A being morning peaks only so the rest of the time there would be no service to Pudsey.
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Post by angrycommuter on Jan 5, 2009 17:06:15 GMT 1
With the cancellation of the First service to Drighlington via Gildersome, will Arriva (or possibly Geldards) operate the same service with the same number? If Arriva start operating the service, I can't see how it could fit in with their current 254/255 or 219/229 services.
Ten years ago, Leeds City Link used to operate almost all services through Drighlington from Leeds (94 every half hour, along with the 223 and 224 to Halifax every hour). From four buses an hour to zero in only a few years. I think the next First route to be abandoned will be the service from White Rose to Morley that uses the same route as 220/221 (can't remember the service number!).
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Post by nick on Jan 5, 2009 18:14:07 GMT 1
Wouldn't imagine that they would dump the 46 extension onto Morley, as this serves Gildersome and provides Gildersome with a link to White Rose Centre which is much more efficient than changing services onto a Different company in Morley Town Centre, although i would be wrong.
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Post by Craig on Jan 5, 2009 21:08:23 GMT 1
With the cancellation of the First service to Drighlington via Gildersome, will Arriva (or possibly Geldards) operate the same service with the same number? If Arriva start operating the service, I can't see how it could fit in with their current 254/255 or 219/229 services. Ten years ago, Leeds City Link used to operate almost all services through Drighlington from Leeds (94 every half hour, along with the 223 and 224 to Halifax every hour). From four buses an hour to zero in only a few years. I think the next First route to be abandoned will be the service from White Rose to Morley that uses the same route as 220/221 (can't remember the service number!). It seems that the 63 replacement would be a temporary service initially, so would quite possibly follow the same route/timetable, but would probably need a new route number to avoid confusion with the existing 63 service. More long term, Arriva are planning to re-revise their Kirklees network anyway, so I think the idea is that the route will be incorporated within those changes, perhaps as an hourly variation to the 254? Remember also that Arriva already have previously taken the evening/Sunday part of the 63 in the form of the 209, which potentially could become an all day service to cover the Gildersome part. Although your comments are true that LCL ran more buses to Drighlington, it is a little dramatic to comment that 4 buses an hour have become 0. Historically the 223/224 were always a YWD/Arriva route which LCL/Quickstep operated for a few years, and as has been documented frequently was scrapped following dubious secret meetings with Arriva. Therefore the only real First route is/was the 63 and its predecessors via Gildersome, which let's face it isn't the biggest money spinner. Finally, I doubt that the 46 will be taken off as this route does rather well, not least due to serving the White Rose Centre. First have had this route for years now since Miramare packed up; they would have already dumped it by now if it was unprofitable.
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Post by jackh on Jan 6, 2009 16:45:34 GMT 1
Wouldn't imagine that they would dump the 46 extension onto Morley, as this serves Gildersome and provides Gildersome with a link to White Rose Centre which is much more efficient than changing services onto a Different company in Morley Town Centre, although i would be wrong. The 46 was only extended out to Gildersome after First had taken over the good will of Black Prince. It covered what was the 22 service from Shadwell to Leeds, the current 46 to Morley then the Black Prince 420 service from Morley to Gildersome.
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Post by angrycommuter on Jan 6, 2009 16:54:48 GMT 1
Wouldn't imagine that they would dump the 46 extension onto Morley, as this serves Gildersome and provides Gildersome with a link to White Rose Centre which is much more efficient than changing services onto a Different company in Morley Town Centre, although i would be wrong. The 46 was only extended out to Gildersome after First had taken over the good will of Black Prince. It covered what was the 22 service from Shadwell to Leeds, the current 46 to Morley then the Black Prince 420 service from Morley to Gildersome. There are 3 (I think) Arriva services per hour from Gildersome to Morley. I could see a new service that could replace the 63 and 46. A new Arriva service via 63 route to Gildersome from Drighlington, then 46 route to White Rose, then down Dewsbury Road to Leeds.
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Post by nick on Jan 6, 2009 17:42:54 GMT 1
There are 3 (I think) Arriva services per hour from Gildersome to Morley. I could see a new service that could replace the 63 and 46. A new Arriva service via 63 route to Gildersome from Drighlington, then 46 route to White Rose, then down Dewsbury Road to Leeds. Possible but where would it start and what would be its frequency. How about a re-route of a service to cover the Drighlington services. First could either extend the 46 to Drighlington, and this wont cause them to withdraw the route because it is busy, and covers other parts of Leeds, but would the passengers want a 50 minute ride into Leeds when you can get a quick service into Leeds. (looking at the map for the under 60's a quick walk up to Whitehall road and onto the 254/55 service shouldn't be a problem) Or another option, extend one of either the 51 or 51A services from Morley Tingly Mills, down onto Britannia Road, and have them go all the way up Britannia road, Wakefield road before turning left onto Moorside Road and going round Drighlington. The thing is, is there enough demand for a Journey, and it is a Sudden increase from an hour to every 15 minutes (or so). Also i think first wont be willing to put in the resources, if only 4 or 5 more passengers use the service. Would also imagine this would increase PVR by about 4 or 5 (even 6), and looking at the buses available First don't have 6 spare buses lying around to put onto this service (although when the new buses come for the 56, am sure some of the ALX400 can be diverted onto this service until some spare B7TL come available, or a new set of Buses are ordered for the route). Just a quick question, do we know whats happening with the X11/X14. Some people have said that an extension onto the Bradford may occur but do we know whether or not this will be peak or all day. Is it possible that because of the withdrawn 88 service, either the X11 or X14 at peak are covering the 88 route, upto Bradford/Galaway Road?
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jan 6, 2009 18:32:29 GMT 1
Details of the changes are now on the First Leeds website
There's also changes to the 18/18A that haven't been mentioned I don't think, and yes the X11 will run all day and to/from Bradford Interchange rather than Hall Ings
I wouldn't have numbered it X11 myself, they should have used number 88.
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Post by jackh on Jan 6, 2009 18:48:21 GMT 1
The 63 looks to be withdrawn completely Monday to Saturday daytime with the 90 covering East End Park section. The 90 will run to Cross Green via the current 88 route east of Leeds to York Road then Osmondthorpe Lane, Ings Road and Ivy Road, East Park Parade, Cross Green and Cross Green Lane.
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Post by jackh on Jan 6, 2009 18:50:42 GMT 1
Patrick, your concerns about the lack of links between Belle Isle, Holbeck and Beeston will be provided by the 74 even though it will take slightly longer as the service will run via the City Centre.
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Post by nick on Jan 6, 2009 19:02:27 GMT 1
18/18A serivces are basically swapping over,it doesn't say which service, but it says two journeys peak time are diverted through Thorpe Park.
X11, will run HourlyIi would presume, anyone any advances?
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Post by jackh on Jan 6, 2009 19:45:33 GMT 1
It is the 18A serving Thorpe Park. So the 18 will no run via Templegate and Colton Village to Sainsbury's and run back towards Tinshill via Selby Road. The 18A will run East Garforth instead. So it is just the eastern end of the route that is swapping.
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Post by Craig on Jan 6, 2009 20:15:36 GMT 1
It's a bit more than that; the 18 will now be the bus for both Templegate and Colton village and terminate at Sainsbury's (Ninelands Lane peak times) where as the 18A runs directly along the A63 to East Garforth. The problem is that the evening/Sunday service will now have to be an extension of the 18 to East Garforth or a diversion of the 18A - a lost opportunity to tidy this route up! Unless each service will now run hourly..?
So it seems the 90 won't be serving Halton Moor, meaning a lost link to St James, but the WYPTA documentation seemed to indicate this would be using the new bus gate into Cross Green? It also seems East End Park are getting a raw deal, not only do they have just one bus an hour it now goes the long way round to Leeds!
I do hope those yobbish vandals take serious note when planning their reign of terror regarding the 87 that "Continuation of the new service will be subject to a continued reduction in vandalism."!
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mjn
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Post by mjn on Jan 6, 2009 21:01:35 GMT 1
I can't really see anyone from around Cross Green Lane/East End Park using the 90 to access the city centre-it would be much quicker to walk to York Road or the 62. Indeed from Cross Green at least it would be quicker just to walk the whole way to town.
I wonder what caused the change of heart with the Cross Green and Halton Moor services though-that new bus access road between the two is becoming something of a white elephant. Maybe they should have just built it as a cycle path after all, unless there is still some longer term plan as you'd hope.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jan 6, 2009 21:33:05 GMT 1
It also seems that services 44/44A are still running and not effected by the New 40/40A services
Also I can't see mention of which service will run via Fulneck in Pudsey
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Post by nick on Jan 6, 2009 21:41:15 GMT 1
"Service 40 is extended to run from Seacroft via the City Centre to Pudsey Chapeltown via the existing 73 route"
Direct from the Information about the changes.
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Post by rossbailey on Jan 6, 2009 22:11:49 GMT 1
This took me by surprise as well! As I was told not so long ago and posted on here that the 44/44A would be changing along with the 16/16A's.
I can’t see the reason for 2 buses per hour at off peak running from Pudsey down to Stanningley Fire Station via Swinnow. Even worst is that swinnow lane is going from an Hourly service now to 4 buses per hour at Peak.
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Post by Craig on Jan 6, 2009 22:16:20 GMT 1
It seems crazy that the 44/44A would continue unchanged, but it can only be a matter of time before common sense dictates that they are rationalised.
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Post by Burnside on Jan 7, 2009 7:42:04 GMT 1
I can't really see anyone from around Cross Green Lane/East End Park using the 90 to access the city centre-it would be much quicker to walk to York Road or the 62. Indeed from Cross Green at least it would be quicker just to walk the whole way to town. Pensioners! Anything to get better value from their free passes!
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Post by jabbott1987 on Jan 7, 2009 22:18:49 GMT 1
I think Godsons would be a good contender for the 63, could get some more Lynx's from Preston.
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SF07
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Post by SF07 on Jan 8, 2009 18:16:50 GMT 1
Here are some of the changes listed in the service changes PDF's on Metro's website in the Disruptions section: www.wymetro.com/TravelNews/Disruptions.htmFrom 19th January:*28B (Geldards) - New service running every 20 mins between Headingley Campus and Clarence Dock. From 24th January:*59 (Stagecoach) - Times changed with buses leaving 5 minutes later. From 26th January:*194/195/196 (Arriva) - Times changed. *261 (K-Line) - Times changed. *301A/302A (K-Line) - Route and times changed. *315 (K-Line) - Times changed. *366 (K-Line) - Times changed. *606 (TLC) - New service between Bradford and Euroway Industrial Estate, replacing service MC3. *MC1 (TLC) - Withdrawn. *MC3 (TLC) - Route and times changed. Service changed to circular route linking Bankfoot, Great Horton Road, Little Horton and West Bowling. From 31st January:*134 (M Travel) - Times changed. *137 (M Travel) - Times changed. *213 (Arriva) - Route and times changed. *487/488 (M Travel) - Times changed with Saturday service introduced. From 1st February:All First Leeds changes mentioned plus (although it does say that the 90 is extended to Halton Moor not Cross Green): *80 (Hudds Bus) - Times changed. *82 (Hudds Bus) - Times changed. *183 (First) - Minor changes to times. *183 (M Travel) - Route and times changed. *200 (First) - Times changed. *231/232 (Hudds Bus) - Times changed. *549 (First) - Route and times changed. (Possibly in Rastrick/Nunnery Lane area) *663 (Keighley & District) - Minor change to Sunday times. *961/962 (First) - Route and times changed. *965/968 - The 1440 and 1455 weekdays journeys from Otley on service 968 replaced by 1445 journey on 965. *967 (First) - The 0807 journey retimed to run 2 minutes earlier. *X6 (First) - Times changed. *X84 (First) - Evening and Sunday times changed. *X96 (First) - Withdrawn.
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Post by nick on Jan 8, 2009 20:57:41 GMT 1
Is the X96 getting withdrawn due to the low passanger usage it gets between Headingley Arndale and Tinshill ? This is a quick way of getting from Leeds to Headingley and Vice Versa. (because the X84 dosnt let you off).
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